Saskman Posted July 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Kias and BMWs all have AC and radios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
104 Degrees Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Kias and BMWs all have AC and radios. Not the same ones. Please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnInSJ Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 I have breasts too, but most women have far better breasts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
104 Degrees Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 I have breasts too, but most women have far better breasts Same here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_The_Jim Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Most people who are looking for tubs are not going to waste their time trying to learn all the internal parts and the quality of said parts... Most people could give a crap about what type of seals are in the pumps or any of that crap ... Most people who are out in search of a tub probably dont even use the internet to find out about the item they are fixing to sink 5k or more on .... Most people will rely on what the dealer tells them instead of researching it themselves. According to a gang of one, Most people think the same way. Most of my customers are independent thinkers and many have PH.D's in science (hundreds of engineers). Most, "technically challenged" people are going to be led to the slaughter by sales and marketing. The reality is the people today are not wise shoppers and they listen to sales people. I have an adversion to sale people. At 59 years old, I have been burned plenty of times by sweet talking seemingly nice people who ripped me off. You know by Wolfs in sheeps clothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_The_Jim Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Climate is a major factor. In the winter I can put a warm beer outside and freeze it solid in less than 10 min when it gets real cold. I think anyone buying a box store tub here will only plans on running it for 3 months. Its a fact that it will freeze way faster than most dealer tubs if there is a heater failure. One dealer told me that i would have about a month before his tub would freeze in the winter hmmm. Keep in mind we are talking about foam. People here spray their houses full of high R value foam all the time. Now lets say they put an energy rating on a tub.....just like the one on my AC and most other things you buy these days. The government says you have to meet this efficiency rating. The box stores will sell much better insulated tubs. When I walked into the show rooms the tubs that I wanted were about 12 grand plus. Not all dealers tried to BS me but some laid it on thick. The best salesman was a repair guy who helped me because the salesmen were all busy. Now we have the best choice tubs being sold by dealers who some of which are insulting you with bs and above market pricing. Now lets look at the options. Everything is costing big dollars. I think if these were cars we have to buy headlights and window handles as extras. At this point someone may as well of drove me to a box store themselves. Now I have my box store tub. I had problems. I returned it when I ran out of options. I began looking for a new tub. Jumped through the same hoops. I went to hot tub 101. Found out where each tub was made what parts are inside. What options. Who's the dealers with the best reps are ect. I want to point out that I'm not hurting for the cash nor am I cheap. The more I looked the more that the prices came into line. I was willing to set my money aside and wait a year if I couldn't make a deal. In the two months I had the tub I entertained several times. People all loved the light and the stereo. The wife and I found that we spent most evenings in the tub with the jets off and the radio on low. I know that people are going to say if you want a stereo go buy a radio. The point is I want one and was willing to take my business to the guy who would give me what I want. I can see that there different prices in different places. Some deals have a smaller margins. My views are directed more at the guys who design tubs. Pull out your pencils and listen. You have won. You build the best tubs. You offer the best service (in most cases). Now why are people buying other tubs. I'll tell you why. You get options without begging for them. You get sparkly things and pretty music. We get the sythetic sides and crome jets free. I'm not alone there are others with money who think like me. Remember customers are always right The customer is not always right, some times they are led to mistaken conclusions by sales people, who nod their heads up and down in a "yes" over and over while they lie to you. We are the only company who adjusts the insulation design for different locations. http://www.soundclick.com/havenhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 And Im guessing your the exception to what you post of about sales people. I am sure many of us dealers have doctors and professors and "smart people" as customers. I know I do. That doesnt make me better than anyone else. Which is the point I think your trying to prove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmendoza17 Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 And you can quote me on that. See, Most People is sick of his quotes too! Maybe he was right about most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spa_repair_guy Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 "It will all work itself out, but in the mean time I am not going to support cheaply made products being sold at high margins, which are poor values." " Today, 12:28 AM " I AGREE 100% (yes I was shouting!) This is solid advice. I saw a midwest company buying California factory seconds or was it rejects or was it European models being bleached out or was it returns ...... well whatever it was I see the same spas in stores under the factory name for 1/3 the price without the private label. Anyway, I also heard that this company and its Puddin' Headed owner ripped off the owner's brother who invested in the company. With some luck they will be gone soon. Until then do not encourage them to change for the better. If they start selling more spas because they are more polite, more people will fall for the scam. A decent source for reliability and for company quality is the BBB. If you need the straight scoop on a spa call your local spa service techs that do NOT sell spas. Ask how they like/dislike the spa you are seeking. A service viewpoint causes their opinion to be honest and normally accurate. srg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soakerman Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Kias and BMWs all have AC and radios. BMW has a dismal reliability record compared to Kia BMW has a lesser warranty But since it cost more then its ok to be unreliable right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_The_Jim Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 "It will all work itself out, but in the mean time I am not going to support cheaply made products being sold at high margins, which are poor values." " Today, 12:28 AM " I AGREE 100% (yes I was shouting!) This is solid advice. I saw a midwest company buying California factory seconds or was it rejects or was it European models being bleached out or was it returns ...... well whatever it was I see the same spas in stores under the factory name for 1/3 the price without the private label. Anyway, I also heard that this company and its Puddin' Headed owner ripped off the owner's brother who invested in the company. With some luck they will be gone soon. Until then do not encourage them to change for the better. If they start selling more spas because they are more polite, more people will fall for the scam. A decent source for reliability and for company quality is the BBB. If you need the straight scoop on a spa call your local spa service techs that do NOT sell spas. Ask how they like/dislike the spa you are seeking. A service viewpoint causes their opinion to be honest and normally accurate. srg My son who is now 21 years old has been repairing and building hot tubs for 11 years. He loves all the junky spas out there sold by other companies. Guess why? He came to me one day and said, he has job security because of those tubs. He has his own spa repair business and is doing well. Do you know that our first tubs we delivered nearly 10 years ago are still running on the same equipment. That is because we are very particular about the spas we sell. We do not accept any blemishes nor do we accept any defects. We only use the best plumbing pipes and the best brands of jets. We put in steel control boxes and pay a premium for them because cheap plastic catches on fire. We use 2x4 frames because it is stronger than any cabinet. We use pressure treated. We use thermally closed design, on the insulation because it is the only design that works for all climates and is far superior to full foam. I have participated in the warranty work for 17 different spa brands and ran a fix em all service center in Colorado for over 12 years. Our spas are based upon not following other people's mistakes. One of our reps has been repairing spas for 24 years. If you want to contact him and find out what the differences are in our spas, that would probably wake you up to the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spa_repair_guy Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 "It will all work itself out, but in the mean time I am not going to support cheaply made products being sold at high margins, which are poor values." " Today, 12:28 AM " I AGREE 100% (yes I was shouting!) This is solid advice. I saw a midwest company buying California factory seconds or was it rejects or was it European models being bleached out or was it returns ...... well whatever it was I see the same spas in stores under the factory name for 1/3 the price without the private label. Anyway, I also heard that this company and its Puddin' Headed owner ripped off the owner's brother who invested in the company. With some luck they will be gone soon. Until then do not encourage them to change for the better. If they start selling more spas because they are more polite, more people will fall for the scam. A decent source for reliability and for company quality is the BBB. If you need the straight scoop on a spa call your local spa service techs that do NOT sell spas. Ask how they like/dislike the spa you are seeking. A service viewpoint causes their opinion to be honest and normally accurate. srg My son who is now 21 years old has been repairing and building hot tubs for 11 years. He loves all the junky spas out there sold by other companies. Guess why? He came to me one day and said, he has job security because of those tubs. He has his own spa repair business and is doing well. Do you know that our first tubs we delivered nearly 10 years ago are still running on the same equipment. That is because we are very particular about the spas we sell. We do not accept any blemishes nor do we accept any defects. We only use the best plumbing pipes and the best brands of jets. We put in steel control boxes and pay a premium for them because cheap plastic catches on fire. We use 2x4 frames because it is stronger than any cabinet. We use pressure treated. We use thermally closed design, on the insulation because it is the only design that works for all climates and is far superior to full foam. I have participated in the warranty work for 17 different spa brands and ran a fix em all service center in Colorado for over 12 years. Our spas are based upon not following other people's mistakes. One of our reps has been repairing spas for 24 years. If you want to contact him and find out what the differences are in our spas, that would probably wake you up to the truth. Golly Jim_the_Gym did you think I was writing about you?? Why? Whatever kind of guilt made you feel that way? "because cheap plastic catches on fire" Didn't your factory catch on fire a couple of times? (check your dates - you started service in 1985? - check your facts* {as if!} ) srg in case you forgot FACT* : something that has actual existence <space exploration is now a fact> b : an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage> : a piece of information presented as having objective reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmendoza17 Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 BMW has a dismal reliability record compared to Kia BMW has a lesser warranty. But since it cost more then its ok to be unreliable right? If it were really that simple, the answer would also be easy. In this case, you have portrayed an extreme of both sides to suit your argument. The fact is BMW's are incredibly well-made automobiles. I used to own one. Since I don't have any reliable research at hand --I suppose you perhaps did-- I would guess that in some instances Kia has a better reliability record, but that would hardly make the BMW "dismal". Perhaps you could offer a more factually based insight. As for warranty, Kia is trying to build market share and has incentive to offer a longer --although limited-- warranty to entice and assure buyers that an unproven brand is a good value. BMW already has proven to be a reliable car that offers high performance luxury, retains d gooresale value and offers status symbol appeal to those willing to pay for this. That is probably a more accurate picture of the market drivers for these products. Spas, I venture to guess, are no different. The truth is in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Jim...please stop bombarding this site with sales pitches and marketing mumbo jumbo!!! It's sickening! It's not science and if the only thing you can be proud of is your knowledge of a simple piece of plumbing maybe you better get a life worth speaking of. Your lies and deciet over the years have made your reputation today nothing more than a plaid jacketed con man!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saskman Posted July 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Nobody has answered my question. Why can't the big manufactures throw in a few options for free. I know.... have a sale and buy the tub for $? and get $? worth of upgrades ant no cost. People like me can get radios and some people could get foot domes. The plastic stuff on the bottom, stairs, cover and lift should all be standard. I am not interested in speaker type unless someone could show me a tub with very high end system. I don't need an amp. I suspect 50 watts per channel may be enough. I don't care if I need a 12 volt 8.5 amp converter or if I can just plug into the main board. Infinity had a spa in Canada now that is 500 buck more than the Hydrospa with a TV. Now i'm not saying I need a TV but the gap is growing. Again I agree that going with a good dealer is the way to go. I just think its time to dress betsy up a little and add some junk to the trunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Spa Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Free = Something you pay for that isn't itemized on the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmendoza17 Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Nobody has answered my question. Why can't the big manufactures throw in a few options for free. I think you make a great point and bells & whistles make a difference in the appeal. I too am guessing that a waterproof radio and CD player can't really cost that much. If Hot Spring had offered colored lights and radio set up for under $500, I might have gone with their spa instead of the Hydro. But that $3999 price was just too tempting compared to the colorless, soundless Hot Spring for $7500. Seems stupid that a multi-colored light is appealing, but it is. In the end, I would not recommend the Hydro unit to anyone, but as you say, the appearance of lots of extras tempts a newbie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnInSJ Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Chrome on a turd still leaves you with a shiny turd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Nobody has answered my question. Why can't the big manufactures throw in a few options for free. I know.... have a sale and buy the tub for $? and get $? worth of upgrades ant no cost. People like me can get radios and some people could get foot domes. The plastic stuff on the bottom, stairs, cover and lift should all be standard. I am not interested in speaker type unless someone could show me a tub with very high end system. I don't need an amp. I suspect 50 watts per channel may be enough. I don't care if I need a 12 volt 8.5 amp converter or if I can just plug into the main board. Infinity had a spa in Canada now that is 500 buck more than the Hydrospa with a TV. Now i'm not saying I need a TV but the gap is growing. Again I agree that going with a good dealer is the way to go. I just think its time to dress betsy up a little and add some junk to the trunk. I'd be more tempted to spend money on say an outdoor theater (or just sound) system, pool. decking, grill/kithchen lightineing patio to add to the backyard experince than upgrading the hot tub itself. No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saskman Posted July 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 I'm not asking for the anyone to solve Fermat's last theorem here just a simple answer..........Why can't the manufactures offer up some extras. The box stores don't seem to have a problem with it. I don't want to get into the quality of every part because I did my homework there also. ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
104 Degrees Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 I'm not asking for the anyone to solve Fermat's last theorem here just a simple answer..........Why can't the manufactures offer up some extras. The box stores don't seem to have a problem with it. I don't want to get into the quality of every part because I did my homework there also. ??????????????????????? Look at the updated Crown xl from nordic. it comes standerd with the crome jets and led lights for the same price as the older ones. it also has updated jets like the more expensive tubs have. oh i forgot! dealer support too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bubbles Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Or, if not offer up extras, then just lower their prices a bit!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 This is where I think shopping a reputable dealer helps. No one wants to buy a spa and then find out later someone else bought the same exact spa, but less, or got a free upgrade. A repuatbal dealer offers his products at a fair price and knows that if he starts playing games he can end up shooting him self in the foot. (get a bad rep, or a rep that you have to haggle with them, and soon he's reflecting that in his price...it's sucks). Honeslty, don't you always feel like the salesman is hustling you a bit when they start throwing in the "extras"? "Ok, if you buy tonight, right now, I'll give you a robe and a ducky". AS I get older and have a bit more disposable income (knock on wood) than I did when I was younger, and hopefully a bit wiser, I prefer to buy quality. Shop around for the best price, and do my homework. Salesmen that think I'll give them business over a $20 trinket, or because they offer me a "once in a lifetime deal if I pay tonight!" insult me. They make me question thier integrity and buisness stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spamaster101 Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 How can people still be so gullible and thinking someone if throwing some extras in for free. You pay for it one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saskman Posted July 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 I give up....lol. What do I know I'm just a silly customer who has money to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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