Trigger Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Most people could give a crap about what type of seals are in the pumps or any of that crap that matters to the people who have been on the site for years...its is a hobby for them or a job. They might after they have to shell out $400-$500 after a couple of years for a new pump. Could be the same folks who don't care about insulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
104 Degrees Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 [quote name= Most people could give a crap about what type of seals are in the pumps or any of that crap that matters They do when they fill it and it leak's. then they get to call the maker and fix it by phone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 I responded the original post and added in my two cents on jmendoza's post complaining about service and support on a tub from costco, which was nothing to do about costco vs. the world. You have the one person who started the thread thinking there isnt a so called dealer quality tub offered outside a dealer.....but there is...its through costco. He got a lemon and thinks now that there is no middle ground on tubs. Most people could give a crap about what type of seals are in the pumps or any of that crap that matters to the people who have been on the site for years...its is a hobby for them or a job. But those of us who do think there is a middle ground and have preached the middle ground from the start are also lumped into the "haters" catagory by you. I say it again, there are exactly what they are, an inexpensive low end tub. With a great return policy. Nothing more or nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillard Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 I responded the original post and added in my two cents on jmendoza's post complaining about service and support on a tub from costco, which was nothing to do about costco vs. the world. You have the one person who started the thread thinking there isnt a so called dealer quality tub offered outside a dealer.....but there is...its through costco. He got a lemon and thinks now that there is no middle ground on tubs. Most people could give a crap about what type of seals are in the pumps or any of that crap that matters to the people who have been on the site for years...its is a hobby for them or a job. But those of us who do think there is a middle ground and have preached the middle ground from the start are also lumped into the "haters" catagory by you. I say it again, there are exactly what they are, an inexpensive low end tub. With a great return policy. Nothing more or nothing less. Most people who are looking for tubs are not going to waste their time trying to learn all the internal parts and the quality of said parts. They want a tub...for a reasonable price with what they are looking for in a tub. Roger, yes....yes...its all my fault..you are now on the "other" team and you will bear that burden "forever". Grats on getting into a place, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Most people who are looking for tubs are not going to waste their time trying to learn all the internal parts and the quality of said parts. Very well put. That is true and that is part of the issue with spa buying. It certainly can be difficult for the average person to shop spas and be able to differentiate the junk vs the decent spas vs the quality spas out there. They sometimes instead rely on spec sheets and generalizations such as "it has industry standard parts". The true test of a spa quality is it's uptime and longevity in people's yards. The true test of a spa's value is largely dependent on that quality aspect, the cost to buy it, the cost to operate it and the service you may (or may not) get along the way. Each of those aspects is important though opinions certainly will differ as to how much weight should be given to each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richs100 Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Roger, yes....yes...its all my fault..you are now on the "other" team and you will bear that burden "forever". Grats on getting into a place, btw. Hmmm, the old "them vs. us" strategy. Cunningly clever, JW. I'll bet many a close hands of poker have been won by you this way. I'll draw a chalk line across the board right now. Roger: How's that burden? I hope it's comfortable, because........IT'S FOREVER!!!!!!! Booga-Booga! (Sounds kinda JA like, doesn't it??) JW.....you really need a soak, fella. BTW, I don't want to have to know what kind of seals I have in my motors. I just want to know they are the good ones and not the crap ones. So I go with a "quality" tub and I don't have to worry about it. My tub is for relaxing, not researching how good the "after-the-sale" service is or isn't. But that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillard Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Roger, yes....yes...its all my fault..you are now on the "other" team and you will bear that burden "forever". Grats on getting into a place, btw. Hmmm, the old "them vs. us" strategy. Cunningly clever, JW. I'll bet many a close hands of poker have been won by you this way. I'll draw a chalk line across the board right now. Roger: How's that burden? I hope it's comfortable, because........IT'S FOREVER!!!!!!! Booga-Booga! (Sounds kinda JA like, doesn't it??) JW.....you really need a soak, fella. BTW, I don't want to have to know what kind of seals I have in my motors. I just want to know they are the good ones and not the crap ones. So I go with a "quality" tub and I don't have to worry about it. My tub is for relaxing, not researching how good the "after-the-sale" service is or isn't. But that's just me. I soak just about every night....keeping up with the "other" team wears me out! Most people who are out in search of a tub probably dont even use the internet to find out about the item they are fixing to sink 5k or more on so trying to worry about seals and such is not even an issue. I know before I purchased I went to about 5 or 6 dealers...and would compare my experience with going to a car dealership. Most people only have marketing information to base their decision on and we all know this can be misleading. So my question is this....if you dont want to know what kind of seals you have...how can you possibly know if they are the "good" ones??? Most people will rely on what the dealer tells them instead of researching it themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 ..If I bought a tub and it was bad, neither hell nor high water would have kept me from dropping that POS tub right back on the doorstep of where I bought it. I would rather be out $300 than have a pos tub sitting in my backyard, I would rather have a return policy than be stuck with a tub that didnt work. Some things in life arent fun...returning a hot tub I am sure isnt...but sometimes you got to do what you got to do! Exactly. Anyone who wants to avoid the hassle of self-service should consider service and support before they buy. That is very true but the problem is many who go the route you went don't realize there is a difference in the first place. They go by the old assumption "I have a warranty just like any local spa so I'm entitled to the same type warranty service". Many don't know there is a difference. I've seen a few people say "yeah I know it may not be a premium spa but it was less money, I'm pretty handy when issues arise and I'm willing to take the chance" so I know some people get it up front but I think they're the minority. I think most make their decision based on a visual/picture, a spec sheet and a price tag. As long as you go in with your eyes wide open to the difference between a big box spa and a spa from a good local dealer then you're making an informed choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richs100 Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 So my question is this....if you dont want to know what kind of seals you have...how can you possibly know if they are the "good" ones??? Most people will rely on what the dealer tells them instead of researching it themselves. Simple Answer. The reputation of the manufacturer. Some manufacturers have good reps, other not so good, and still others have miserable reps. There is a correllation between reputation and quality. That's why we don't all drive Yugos now. It was apparent very quickly that they were pieces of junk that did not run. Reputation suffered. Sales plummeted. No more Yugo. But BMW and Mercedes are still selling cars. In my choice of a hot tub, I rely on Hot Spring's reputation for quality to assure me I'm going to get a quality tub with quality componets for my money. I think your generally safe in doing this with HS, Sundance, Jacuzzi and some of the other major manufacturers. I do not think it is possible to do this with any tub made by Hydrospa. Period. That is obviously not their business model or marketing strategy. Sorry if you disagree, but that's the way I figure it. I am not willing to experiment with trying to save some money and just hope getting a quality tub out of the deal. If I want a Costco bargain, I'll buy rib eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 So my question is this....if you dont want to know what kind of seals you have...how can you possibly know if they are the "good" ones??? Most people will rely on what the dealer tells them instead of researching it themselves. Like I tell anyone who is interested in getting a tub through me, Get the opinion of as many independent repair guys you can find. By the way thanks for the congrats on the place, now I have to find a tub as soon as I settle in and make a few changes and upgrades. And by the way I will stay right where I am on my own team but thank you for the offer. I'm more of a one on one sport kinda guy. And not a free agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soakerman Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 So my question is this....if you dont want to know what kind of seals you have...how can you possibly know if they are the "good" ones??? Most people will rely on what the dealer tells them instead of researching it themselves. Like I tell anyone who is interested in getting a tub through me, Get the opinion of as many independent repair guys you can find. By the way thanks for the congrats on the place, now I have to find a tub as soon as I settle in and make a few changes and upgrades. And by the way I will stay right where I am on my own team but thank you for the offer. I'm more of a one on one sport kinda guy. And not a free agent. And if they ask your opinion of a Elite spa you have none other then a guess as you havent seen one or worked on one yet trash it as low end. I hope they ask a real full time spa tech . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillard Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 So my question is this....if you dont want to know what kind of seals you have...how can you possibly know if they are the "good" ones??? Most people will rely on what the dealer tells them instead of researching it themselves. Simple Answer. The reputation of the manufacturer. Some manufacturers have good reps, other not so good, and still others have miserable reps. There is a correllation between reputation and quality. That's why we don't all drive Yugos now. It was apparent very quickly that they were pieces of junk that did not run. Reputation suffered. Sales plummeted. No more Yugo. But BMW and Mercedes are still selling cars. In my choice of a hot tub, I rely on Hot Spring's reputation for quality to assure me I'm going to get a quality tub with quality componets for my money. I think your generally safe in doing this with HS, Sundance, Jacuzzi and some of the other major manufacturers. I do not think it is possible to do this with any tub made by Hydrospa. Period. That is obviously not their business model or marketing strategy. Sorry if you disagree, but that's the way I figure it. I am not willing to experiment with trying to save some money and just hope getting a quality tub out of the deal. If I want a Costco bargain, I'll buy rib eyes. We all know how the reputation of the manufacture gets convoluted as it passes down to hot tub dealers. One of the main reasons I went with a costco spa was because the salesman mentality as I was doing the hot tub "search" locally. Anyway...what does the average consumer have to base a manufacturers rep off....most of it is fed to the customer from the salesperson through marketing material. I went into it know I was saving...(immediately) 5k off buying a tub when I got mine through costco...no I didnt expect any dealer service...most of the dealers I went to kind of irritated me with the whole process I really didn't care to have them come service my tub should it need it. I guess you could say I found a deal in the legend and glad it was an option for me. With my lifestyle its easy to find something other to spend my money on. Either way...I was joking about the team thing...I mainly do it to piss others off....at the same time tell my side of the story. Later I will screenshot my electric usages from 1 yr ago from the time I bought my tub and you can see the very minor change if any on my bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmendoza17 Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Most people who are looking for tubs are not going to waste their time trying to learn all the internal parts and the quality of said parts... Most people could give a crap about what type of seals are in the pumps or any of that crap ... Most people who are out in search of a tub probably dont even use the internet to find out about the item they are fixing to sink 5k or more on .... Most people will rely on what the dealer tells them instead of researching it themselves. I love it when people use unsubstantiated statistics and personal beliefs as a substitute for real facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richs100 Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Well, I'm glad we got that all cleared up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnInSJ Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 It's how I found this place (researching an $8k tub) - so I'm not most people. Mom always said I was special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmendoza17 Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Mom always said I was special. I think our moms may be related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmendoza17 Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 I will screenshot my electric usages from 1 yr ago from the time I bought my tub and you can see the very minor change if any on my bill. You live in a state that almost pays consumers to use juice. $.08/KW is not even fair game. Try paying $.25 during premium rates in CA and you'd be singing --make that crying-- another tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_The_Jim Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 I am finding this tread interesting. Rich100 you do know that they sell a Hot Spring at Costco?? It is the same "quality" that you find in the stores. The reality is that the "big box" stores did not have a decent spa to sell until this last year. That is why they were not threatening to dealers. Now it is a different story. The dealers are all selling some pretty cheap spas to try and compete with Costco and still have markups engough to pay the rent on the store, and the taxes, and the electricity and the insurance, and any employees. So, I see that there are 8K Costco spas now. And 2995 Marquis spas?????? at the stores. It will all work itself out, but in the mean time I am not going to support cheaply made products being sold at high margins, which are poor values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmendoza17 Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Most people who are looking for tubs are not going to waste their time trying to learn all the internal parts and the quality of said parts... Most people could give a crap about what type of seals are in the pumps or any of that crap ... Most people who are out in search of a tub probably dont even use the internet to find out about the item they are fixing to sink 5k or more on .... Most people will rely on what the dealer tells them instead of researching it themselves. According to a gang of one, Most people think the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 And if they ask your opinion of a Elite spa you have none other then a guess as you havent seen one or worked on one yet trash it as low end. I hope they ask a real full time spa tech . And an Elite spa is different from the many many other Hydrospa units I have seen how? Is it made cheaper so it can be sold for less at Costco? Or do they make it using higher quality components than there standered Hydrospa units so they can sell it cheaper at Costco? Hmmmmmmm Maybe they will ask you who have seen a total of........one Hydrospa unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnInSJ Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 I am finding this tread interesting. Rich100 you do know that they sell a Hot Spring at Costco?? It is the same "quality" that you find in the stores. I've seen this stated twice now... which tub is it? Is it viewable online? I'd like to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillard Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Most people who are looking for tubs are not going to waste their time trying to learn all the internal parts and the quality of said parts... Most people could give a crap about what type of seals are in the pumps or any of that crap ... Most people who are out in search of a tub probably dont even use the internet to find out about the item they are fixing to sink 5k or more on .... Most people will rely on what the dealer tells them instead of researching it themselves. According to a gang of one, Most people think the same way. jmendoza...is it your life now to quote me? As far as living in California and paying what you do for electricity....I wouldnt live in that POS state you call home. I watched a show about flipping houses in Watts....in the ghetto...and people were paying 500k for a place I wouldnt let my dog live in. You my friend...can have it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
104 Degrees Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 I am finding this tread interesting. Rich100 you do know that they sell a Hot Spring at Costco?? It is the same "quality" that you find in the stores. Last year sams club had a jacuzzi tub for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmendoza17 Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 ....in the ghetto...and people were paying 500k for a place I wouldnt let my dog live in. You my friend...can have it! What does this have to do with what you assert about spas and the cost of electricity? The point was not to bash FL ,which I am sure has good and bad parts, the point was to note that those who claim the Hydrospas are economical are people who live in places where the cost of juice is really cheap. So if you show us your electricity bill, it won't matter. The other point was to demonstrate that your points often seem to mix your perception of what "most people think" with what you beleive. This is something we have no way of knowing, other than through measured statistical surveys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
104 Degrees Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 [the cost of electricity? The point was not to bash FL People who live in a warm climate can wait to get there tub fixed. thay also dont need to have the insulation thats needed in a colder climates. I love Florida!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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