Big Box Store Tubs May Be All Some People Can Afford

[Richs100]

As far as living in California and paying what you do for electricity....I wouldnt live in that POS state you call home. I watched a show about flipping houses in Watts....in the ghetto...and people were paying 500k for a place I wouldnt let my dog live in. You my friend...can have it!

Wow. Talk about an off topic attack! And this guy is spouting this drivel from, of all places, Orlando, FL? That's cheeky! Been there, done that, won't do it again. Sorry, JW, but my 'cone of silience' just came down. You may be able to hear me, but I won't be able to hear you. Enjoy your tub.

[jwillard]

....in the ghetto...and people were paying 500k for a place I wouldn't let my dog live in. You my friend...can have it!

What does this have to do with what you assert about spas and the cost of electricity?

The point was not to bash FL ,which I am sure has good and bad parts, the point was to note that those who claim the Hydrospas are economical are people who live in places where the cost of juice is really cheap. So if you show us your electricity bill, it won't matter.

The other point was to demonstrate that your points often seem to mix your perception of what "most people think" with what you believe. This is something we have no way of knowing, other than through measured statistical surveys.

What it means is that the cost to live in California is way over priced. My point is how can anyone afford to live in a state that charges sooooooo much more for the basic of things.

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to assert that most people dont care about the things I stated...no more than they care about what type of oil/filter they put on their car...if they even change the oil as recommended.

As far as sharing my electric bill it was to show that the tub hasnt made a dent in my over all bill. Regardless of what my electric rate is the point was that it hasnt made, as some claim a big difference in their bill. Has nothing to do with the rate at which I am charged.

[Richs100]

I am finding this tread interesting. Rich100 you do know that they sell a Hot Spring at Costco?? It is the same "quality" that you find in the stores.

I've seen this stated twice now... which tub is it? Is it viewable online? I'd like to see it.

John:

The spa is the Highlife. (search "Highlife Spa" on Costco's site) "from the makers of Hot Spring". $5,699.00. I understand it is similar to the "Classic" Sovereign model on the Hot Spring site. It looks a lot like my old Prodigy with the white endurol shell and tile work. One motor. Probably a good, reliable starter spa if your in the market for that. One of the problems I see with the Costco model is that you don't have that strong link to a local dealer and I'm not sure that it carries the normal 7/5/5/1 year warranty offered on tubs sold by a dealer. Someone else may know this.

[jwillard]

Wow. Talk about an off topic attack! And this guy is spouting this drivel from, of all places, Orlando, FL? That's cheeky! Been there, done that, won't do it again. Sorry, JW, but my 'cone of silience' just came down. You may be able to hear me, but I won't be able to hear you. Enjoy your tub.

Attack? Huh, I said something about a state....is that really an attack? Actually my point was that it cost insane amounts of money for the basic of things in that state. Please...you can talk crap about Orlando all you wont....its not going to hurt my feelings. I am not emotionally attached to it.

Hell, just the fact that Pelosi is from there is enough for me to hate the state.

Cone of silence? Get Smart?

[104 Degrees]

I am finding this tread interesting. Rich100 you do know that they sell a Hot Spring at Costco?? It is the same "quality" that you find in the stores.

I've seen this stated twice now... which tub is it? Is it viewable online? I'd like to see it.

. One of the problems I see with the Costco model is that you don't have that strong link to a local dealer

The wrong dealer can make a spa the worse thing you ever bought.

104 Degrees

[Trigger]

.... but my 'cone of silience' just came down. You may be able to hear me, but I won't be able to hear you. Enjoy your tub.

Do we have to use that? That thing NEVER works!

[Saskman]

Climate is a major factor. In the winter I can put a warm beer outside and freeze it solid in less than 10 min when it gets real cold. I think anyone buying a box store tub here will only plans on running it for 3 months. Its a fact that it will freeze way faster than most dealer tubs if there is a heater failure. One dealer told me that i would have about a month before his tub would freeze in the winter hmmm. Keep in mind we are talking about foam. People here spray their houses full of high R value foam all the time. Now lets say they put an energy rating on a tub.....just like the one on my AC and most other things you buy these days. The government says you have to meet this efficiency rating. The box stores will sell much better insulated tubs.

When I walked into the show rooms the tubs that I wanted were about 12 grand plus. Not all dealers tried to BS me but some laid it on thick. The best salesman was a repair guy who helped me because the salesmen were all busy. Now we have the best choice tubs being sold by dealers who some of which are insulting you with bs and above market pricing. Now lets look at the options. Everything is costing big dollars. I think if these were cars we have to buy headlights and window handles as extras. At this point someone may as well of drove me to a box store themselves.

Now I have my box store tub. I had problems. I returned it when I ran out of options. I began looking for a new tub. Jumped through the same hoops. I went to hot tub 101. Found out where each tub was made what parts are inside. What options. Who's the dealers with the best reps are ect. I want to point out that I'm not hurting for the cash nor am I cheap. The more I looked the more that the prices came into line.

I was willing to set my money aside and wait a year if I couldn't make a deal. In the two months I had the tub I entertained several times. People all loved the light and the stereo. The wife and I found that we spent most evenings in the tub with the jets off and the radio on low. I know that people are going to say if you want a stereo go buy a radio. The point is I want one and was willing to take my business to the guy who would give me what I want.

I can see that there different prices in different places. Some deals have a smaller margins. My views are directed more at the guys who design tubs. Pull out your pencils and listen. You have won. You build the best tubs. You offer the best service (in most cases). Now why are people buying other tubs. I'll tell you why. You get options without begging for them. You get sparkly things and pretty music. We get the sythetic sides and crome jets free. I'm not alone there are others with money who think like me.

Remember customers are always right

[Richs100]

.... but my 'cone of silience' just came down. You may be able to hear me, but I won't be able to hear you. Enjoy your tub.

Do we have to use that? That thing NEVER works!

I hear that! (surprisingly!)

[Most People]

Most people who are looking for tubs are not going to waste their time trying to learn all the internal parts and the quality of said parts...

Most people could give a crap about what type of seals are in the pumps or any of that crap ...

Most people who are out in search of a tub probably dont even use the internet to find out about the item they are fixing to sink 5k or more on ....

Most people will rely on what the dealer tells them instead of researching it themselves.

According to a gang of one, Most people think the same way.

I really hate it when others claim they know what I want. I wish people would just speak for themselves. This is especially true when the person claiming to know what I want, has little to no experience themselves.

[Richs100]

Most people who are looking for tubs are not going to waste their time trying to learn all the internal parts and the quality of said parts...

Most people could give a crap about what type of seals are in the pumps or any of that crap ...

Most people who are out in search of a tub probably dont even use the internet to find out about the item they are fixing to sink 5k or more on ....

Most people will rely on what the dealer tells them instead of researching it themselves.

According to a gang of one, Most people think the same way.

I really hate it when others claim they know what I want. I wish people would just speak for themselves. This is especially true when the person claiming to know what I want, has little to no experience themselves.

Most People

Now, that was funny! LOL

Your going to get a lot of action around here with that name!

[Spamaster101]

I went into it know I was saving...(immediately) 5k

You did not save a nickel, you got what you paid for.

Saving would imply you paid a lower price for the same or equivalent item.

[JohnInSJ]

I am finding this tread interesting. Rich100 you do know that they sell a Hot Spring at Costco?? It is the same "quality" that you find in the stores.

I've seen this stated twice now... which tub is it? Is it viewable online? I'd like to see it.

John:

The spa is the Highlife. (search "Highlife Spa" on Costco's site) "from the makers of Hot Spring". $5,699.00. I understand it is similar to the "Classic" Sovereign model on the Hot Spring site. It looks a lot like my old Prodigy with the white endurol shell and tile work. One motor. Probably a good, reliable starter spa if your in the market for that. One of the problems I see with the Costco model is that you don't have that strong link to a local dealer and I'm not sure that it carries the normal 7/5/5/1 year warranty offered on tubs sold by a dealer. Someone else may know this.

Thanks Rich. So for $5700 you can get a nice starter 110v Watkins spa from costco. Sounds about right. For $1300 more you can get a Tiger River Caspian with full dealer support & delivery & setup, chemicals, 220v with subpanel, a cover lifter... a clearly better spa with full dealer support for 23% more $. Okedoke! If anything, you would think this illustrates, at least for watkins, the relative values of their models. Indeed (back to Jim the Jim's comment) it would be the same quality build, just far lower cost parts (1 pump, diverter valve plumb, 110v etc) - a lower end tub for sure, for a little less money then the higher end tubs @ the dealer...

[jwillard]

I went into it know I was saving...(immediately) 5k

You did not save a nickel, you got what you paid for.

Saving would imply you paid a lower price for the same or equivalent item.

When I paid with my cc my account was charged 5k instead of the 10k I would have spent. So, yes....I did save. So had I decided to go with a dealer tub...my account would have been reduced by 10k with some change...but I didnt...10k - 5k = 5k still left on my acct.

What type of math did you take in school?

The tub I purchased had everything I was looking for without having to spend an additional amount of money....so yes...your right...I got what I paid for and also was able to hold onto my money.

I can soak in my tub...I can listen to tunes in my tub...my water is hot....I have jets.... I have purdy lights...all out under the purdy stars.... this and room for 6 others....so whats is not equivalent? Oh...here we go again...its not quality...it hasn't proven itself...fit and finish...yada yada yada...same ole song and dance.

The only difference in the tubs is I didnt have a saleman standing in my ear telling me how great their spa was...how awesome they are going to treat me...and I damn sure didnt have 3 different dealerships giving me three difference prices for the same tub. Yep...I got exactly what I paid for...nothing more nothing less.

[fingolfin]

I went into it know I was saving...(immediately) 5k

You did not save a nickel, you got what you paid for.

Saving would imply you paid a lower price for the same or equivalent item.

Having 5k in the bank and hot tub compared to not having 5k in the bank and a hot tub is not saving any money?

Should I buy a Mercedes when a Kia will do? If I buy the Kia are you saying I won't save money?

[Saskman]

I went into it know I was saving...(immediately) 5k

You did not save a nickel, you got what you paid for.

Saving would imply you paid a lower price for the same or equivalent item.

When I paid with my cc my account was charged 5k instead of the 10k I would have spent. So, yes....I did save. So had I decided to go with a dealer tub...my account would have been reduced by 10k with some change...but I didnt...10k - 5k = 5k still left on my acct.

What type of math did you take in school?

The tub I purchased had everything I was looking for without having to spend an additional amount of money....so yes...your right...I got what I paid for and also was able to hold onto my money.

I can soak in my tub...I can listen to tunes in my tub...my water is hot....I have jets.... I have purdy lights...all out under the purdy stars.... this and room for 6 others....so whats is not equivalent? Oh...here we go again...its not quality...it hasn't proven itself...fit and finish...yada yada yada...same ole song and dance.

The only difference in the tubs is I didnt have a saleman standing in my ear telling me how great their spa was...how awesome they are going to treat me...and I damn sure didnt have 3 different dealerships giving me three difference prices for the same tub. Yep...I got exactly what I paid for...nothing more nothing less.

<==== Has no stereo now.......makes me sad

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I went into it know I was saving...(immediately) 5k

You did not save a nickel, you got what you paid for.

Saving would imply you paid a lower price for the same or equivalent item.

When I paid with my cc my account was charged 5k instead of the 10k I would have spent. So, yes....I did save. So had I decided to go with a dealer tub...my account would have been reduced by 10k with some change...but I didnt...10k - 5k = 5k still left on my acct.

What type of math did you take in school?

You did spend less money but you did not buy a $10k spa for $5k since that spa doesn't sell for $10k anywhere since it is not a $10k spa. It’s the same as saying you bought a Ford for $25k and "SAVED" $10k instead vs getting the BMW others like. Your savings is not based on the same item sold at two different prices but rather on a choice to buy a less expensive item. Both products are fine but you paid less based on your choice of product, not by simply finding the same product for less $.

I have no issue with you thinking you got a great deal and thinking Costco is the way to go but why not leave it at that? Most people see the difference (and I'm sure he'll stop by to comment as well). Why do you persist in trying to convince everyone you bought a $10k spa for $5k? Do you make that claim because you truly believe you bought a $10k spa for $5k or are you just making a statement like that to egg people on?

[Richs100]

I am finding this tread interesting. Rich100 you do know that they sell a Hot Spring at Costco?? It is the same "quality" that you find in the stores.

I've seen this stated twice now... which tub is it? Is it viewable online? I'd like to see it.

John:

The spa is the Highlife. (search "Highlife Spa" on Costco's site) "from the makers of Hot Spring". $5,699.00. I understand it is similar to the "Classic" Sovereign model on the Hot Spring site. It looks a lot like my old Prodigy with the white endurol shell and tile work. One motor. Probably a good, reliable starter spa if your in the market for that. One of the problems I see with the Costco model is that you don't have that strong link to a local dealer and I'm not sure that it carries the normal 7/5/5/1 year warranty offered on tubs sold by a dealer. Someone else may know this.

Thanks Rich. So for $5700 you can get a nice starter 110v Watkins spa from costco. Sounds about right. For $1300 more you can get a Tiger River Caspian with full dealer support & delivery & setup, chemicals, 220v with subpanel, a cover lifter... a clearly better spa with full dealer support for 23% more $. Okedoke! If anything, you would think this illustrates, at least for watkins, the relative values of their models. Indeed (back to Jim the Jer... Jim's comment) it would be the same quality build, just far lower cost parts (1 pump, diverter valve plumb, 110v etc) - a lower end tub for sure, for a little less money then the higher end tubs @ the dealer...

Good analysis, John. The Tiger River is a nice tub for just a bit more.

I very briefly considered the Highlife tub when I replaced my old Prodigy last year, but I wanted something with more bells and whistles and the same high level of quality. But I still think that the Highlife has a market. It is significant that Hot Spring continues to offer four (4) tubs in its "Classic" line. There must be a market for them out there.

[Most People]

I have no issue with you thinking you got a great deal and thinking Costco is the way to go but why not leave it at that? Most people see the difference (and I'm sure he'll stop by to comment as well). Why do you persist in trying to convince everyone you bought a $10k spa for $5k? Do you make that claim because you truly believe you bought a $10k spa for $5k or are you just making a statement like that to egg people on?

I do see the difference. Can we move on? Please?

I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sick of this and of his posts.

And you can quote me on that.

[Spamaster101]

If Costo started selling full size trucks for half the cost would you buy one? You would need to consider though the tires will only last 10K miles, it only gets 5MPG, if you need it serviced you have to call the factory, it has a lot of wind noise because of the fit and finish is poor, the paint will fade in 2-3 years, the bed fills with water when it rains since they did not put in drains, it will need a tune up in 10K miles because of the cheap plugs, the exhaust will rust out in 2-3 years because they did not use a good grade stainless steel... but what the hay you saved 20K bucks.

[JohnInSJ]

Re "saving money" posts... you didn't save money, you spent less money. Congrats!

Every purchase involves trade-offs. Unless you found the exact same item for sale at two different prices, selecting a different item with a lower cost is not a purchase price savings.

This is consumer econ 101

I'm very happy that for those selecting on price, or with budgets that completely excluded spas over $4-5k, have several choices now. That can't be a bad thing for them, or for the industry.

However, as with Autos, indeed you can get a Kia or a BMW. Both are "cars" and function as such, but you don't claim savings on a BMW by buying a Kia... you just spend less on the Kia. The Kia is a fine car, but its not a very good BMW

[Trigger]

This is an interesting post, I have an example to add to it. I just received my hot tub last Thursday that I ordered from Costco about three weeks ago. On Friday I had the electrical wiring ran to my tub. By Friday night I was hoping the thing would be on it's way to 104 degrees, but wouldn't you know it, my tub had a problem. I realized that something like this could happen when I ordered it from Costco, but really didn't give it much thought. Hopefully Keys Backyard can respond promptly and resolve the issue. I did save almost $3K over buying from a local dealer, looks like you do get what you pay for? Hopefully I don't regret my decision. Good thing I have the option to just return it if things get ugly.

Just a few weeks ago another poster here was in a simillair issue. Please keep us updated on how this works out for you.

huttopotamus,

Has anyone gotten back to you yet? What's the story with your tub?

[jwillard]

You did spend less money but you did not buy a $10k spa for $5k since that spa doesn't sell for $10k anywhere since it is not a $10k spa. It’s the same as saying you bought a Ford for $25k and "SAVED" $10k instead vs getting the BMW others like. Your savings is not based on the same item sold at two different prices but rather on a choice to buy a less expensive item. Both products are fine but you paid less based on your choice of product, not by simply finding the same product for less $.

I have no issue with you thinking you got a great deal and thinking Costco is the way to go but why not leave it at that? Most people see the difference (and I'm sure he'll stop by to comment as well). Why do you persist in trying to convince everyone you bought a $10k spa for $5k? Do you make that claim because you truly believe you bought a $10k spa for $5k or are you just making a statement like that to egg people on?

Personally I dont think any of the spa's are worth 10k. I was looking for a spa and the price is what it is...set by the dealer depending on what time of year it is, amount of inventory on hand and their cost and whatever else drives the industry.

Like I said...I was able to buy a spa...for 5k cheaper than what was offered by a dealership that had all the stuff I was looking for. If you are shopping for an item and you choose to go with a less expensive item do you not in fact save money???

I never tried to convince anyone of anything...I merely stated the tub I purchased does exactly what any other tub I could have went with for a lot less money.

[JohnInSJ]

Key word there is "personally"

I don't think a BMW is worth the extra money either - that doesn't mean my beater is "the same" as a BMW.

Thats all everyone is saying. It's disingenuous to claim a $4k or $5k spa saves you money over a 10-12k spa (assuming you shop around, and as you say don't just get reamed by the dealer - not unlike a car purchase)

Sure, all spas that manage to hold water, heat it, and move it around do "exactly" what other tubs do. They may do it with much higher operating costs, maintenance costs, with lower lifetimes... or not. But to just say that if a tub holds water, makes it hot, and can pump it it's exactly like every other tub is very silly... to me.

And that closes my side of the discussion.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Like I said...I was able to buy a spa...for 5k cheaper than what was offered by a dealership that had all the stuff I was looking for. If you are shopping for an item and you choose to go with a less expensive item do you not in fact save money???

We're certainly getting into semantics but I see it as you "spent" less money but it's difficult to agree with the thought that you "saved" money. Based on definition #1 you did save but based on #2 I'd say you chose another item and spent less.

Save:

1: To avoid spending (money) so as to keep or accumulate it.

2: To avoid spending (money) in an amount less than what circumstances normally require: saved $25 at the sale.

We could go on with examples, definitions and owner feedback (good and bad) but in the end you are happy with your spa but not everyone wants to go that route. This thread is more about opinions, perspective and subjectivity than about right and wrong.

[huttopotamus]

This conversation is getting a little crazy, if anybody is interested I am going to start a new post with the details regarding my current issue concerning my new Keys Backyard hot tub.