Leaderboard

Yup, US dollars and I completely missed the part where electrical is included. Electrical can add a good chunk of change. My electrician tells me to inform customers electrical could cost $500-$1,200 USD as a general statement. But, each installation is unique and some will exceed that.

Personally I would never run a hot tub w/o a GFI. The amount of current that is leaking can be very small, medium or high depending on the issue. A small leak of current w/o a GFI protection is probably not too much of an issue (damage wise to the tub), but a medium or high current leak could cause further damage to a component IMHO. Anytime I had a GFI issue it was always solved by methodically removing loads and running the tub on the GFI, as others have suggested. Over 33 years I have had 3 GFI issues. Twice was the heater, once was a motor that had a slight intermittent current leak. The motor was the one that was hard to figure. The fault would only show up every couple of days. So it became important to run with each component removed form service for days before the culprit showed itself.

Take the plastic housing in your hand, and lightly pull outwards as you are unscrewing.... that should help back the screw out.

Try unplugging the ACE controller from the circuit board.

It's because the chlorine trichlor tablets are made for pools and can break down too fast in hot tub water. Some brands specifically state your warranty is void if using trichlor tablets in floater. I advise looking into an alternative care routine

Thanks! I clean the filter weekly(spray clean) and deep clean monthly. I will do that when it happens again. so far so good now.

Gecko pack. It probably has an issue with the low voltage power supply. Depending on the age, it's likely that you may have some bad capacitors. You can tell they are bad as the tops tend to be domed out instead of flat and there might be a brown goo around the base. If you find this, replace the caps and see if it fixes it. Many times it does. If it's the power supply itself, good luck. I don't think anyone has found a source for just the power supply.

That's 23A just for the heater. Nothing else is included in that total. I would be looking at a 50A breaker at minimum for the tub. Now as far as powering down after use, that won't be related to the circuit breaker. That is more likely related to the top side controller.

Thanks for the reply. The entire foot well was filled with water but nothing above that. in fact, I had to drain the water that was in the foot well. I am thinking I will try to fill it back up and turn it on and see what happens. I suppose the worst that can is it drains out again. Just strange that I never had a leak prior, not even a small one and it’s only about 2 years old.

When you replaced the flow switch, did you install it correctly? Wouldn't be the first one that was installed backwards.

I just want to say THANK YOU for this!!!! I was having the same issue and didn’t wanna shell out the $600 for a new spa pack. I’d spend HOURS on HOURS researching and couldn’t find anything until I found your post. I immediately unsoldered and soldered in a new capacitor and my tub is running BEAUTIFULLY!!!!! Thank you so much!!!!!

Don't dial the temp back during the week. It takes more power to bring it back to 102F from 84F than to let it maintain 102F.

hi, the previous owner told me their son tried to fix it and I'm not confident they put everything back correctly so would like to have the wiring diagram to ensure all jumpers, dip switches and connections are correct

If you can't wet test but they have a running spa use the back of your hand and not your palm to get a better "feel" for what the jet will be like against your back/body

As CanadianSpaTech mentioned - Jet pump horsepower numbers can be heavily inflated when testing on the bench - basically they test at a higher voltage to force the motor to run at a higher horsepower (which would kill the jet pump very fast, but doesn't matter for a 2 minute test). Back in my car stereo days we called that the "ILS Standard" for car amplifiers - because the only way you'd hit the advertised wattage is "If Lightning Strikes" 😄 As CST said - pump amperage is a much more useful number, and of course this never really mentioned in the marketing/advertising. The only way to know for certain is to pull the front access panel and read the specs on the pump motor itself. Also know that plumbing designs play a role in jet pressure - hard 90-degree bends in plumbing cause cavitation which decreases flow pressure. Some brands use angled and curved plumbing to ensure no hard bends slow down water flowing to the jets. Also know that "Jet count" can also be inflated - some cheaper brands love to toss tons of tiny "bullet" jets into the spa to increase jet-count numbers because to the average consumer more jets = better hahaha. The reality is these tiny jets can sometimes cause the skin to itch when they're running making it uncomfortable for the user. My luxury 3-seater spa (which currently retails for around $10k USD) only has 14 jets total in the entire spa, but they are all full size large jets with enough pressure to give you a massage (when I close other jets in the spa and send full pressure to the lounger seat my wife finds those 7 jets TOO powerful and painful for her comfort lol) Honestly "jet feel" is a very subjective topic and it's really impossible to determine that you will find one spa more or less comfortable than another spa without physically "wet-testing" a spa from that collection (doesn't have to be exact spa model, but should be something from the same product collection/tier). Before covid wet-testing was highly advised and it was considered a red-flag if a dealer refused a wet-test. Speaking of which, be sure to research the dealer thoroughly - you're often stuck with them for the duration of the warranty so be sure to read what existing customers say about the dealer (not the brand). Find out what is covered under warranty, and more important - dispatch fees for warranty service (some crummy dealers only give you 6 months free dispatch before they try to charge $150+ for warranty service calls)

What do you mean the screen is "way off" There really isn't a way to calibrate screens on a Hotspring - you may need to replace the topside controller

Thanks everyone! Replaced both temperature sensors and the spa is back in business. Started right up with no error messages. It's been running for a couple of hours and the temperature is steadily climbing. It had dropped down to 65 degrees!

Using a smaller circulation pump (depending on the pump used) will be more cost effective then running a larger main pump on low speed for heating and filtering. When they tell you hp rating those numbers are subjective and can be fudged by the MFG to make it seem more powerful to the consumer. The best way to tell the hp rating of a pump it is always best to know the amp draw in high speed of a 2 speed pump. 8 amp 2 hp, 10 amp 3 hp, 12 amp 4 hp. For heating and filtering look for the low speed amp draw. A large main pump might have a low speed amp draw of say 3 amp but circ pumps can range from .8 amp up to 5 amps depending on the circ pump. If you live in a cold climate you want to make sure the electrical hook up can handle running both the heater and the main pump on high speed at the same time so you can heat while you enjoy the spa. Some systems you can run the heater and the main pump at the same time on low speed but once you put the main pump into high speed the heater cuts out if the GFCI breaker is not sufficient to handle the total amp draw of everything running at once. If there is sufficient amps at the breaker most control systems can be made to run everything at once by making a change to a dip switch on the circuit board.

Thank you CanadianSpaTech for your help. Looks like the problem is in hi-limit sensor disconnected from the board. The foam tip of it was so deteriorated, so just fall off. This is the old style which I have to solder to the board 9200-100181. Gecko doesn't sell them anymore. They are saying that I have to change the board and get new one 9200-100318. Is anyone had an idea where can I get mine? They're still out there, 6 has wholesaler in Australia but doesn't deal with the public.

Post photos of circuit board and schematic on inside cover so we can see what you have. Might get you to try starting up the spa in "Test" mode with dip switch A1 in up position. This should get you sensor A/B current temp readings as well as recent fault logs. If replacing temp sensor recommend replacing both. Google Balboa "Test Mode" and look for information sheet for your system. If your readings are correct then it is likely a bad sensor

This last Tuesday I threw out my 1995 Hot Springs Grandee. It worked perfectly, but it was just... OLD. Original Wavemaster 5000 pumps. Circ pump probably was on my 6th. I think my 4th heater, but it was 28 years old! The shell had a few micro cracks in it that should have been repaired from the back, by removing the spray insulation, but I decided to just smother the heck out of the shell with some Devcon white epoxy and it held fine. So I know they are built to last and were easy to work on for the pumps and heater swap. I just got a Vita Spa and it is pretty nice, but I'm sure the Hot Springs stuff is better, but for $11K installed, this one is fine for us.

I have big issues with my barrier reef pool. I’m in Newcastle, NSW, Australia. where is this at? Had there been any action? I’d like to join in. thanks

Same here to!! installed 2017 poor gel coat, shell faded to white/grey above water line. The pool looks 20 years old. head office keep making excuses for it including “caused by the sun”, like is a fibreglass pool for indoor use only? Is there a class action group? Who have you contacted (other than BR direct that are not interested in their faulty product) to take proceedings further to make BR liable for their faulty goods.

I wrote this guide on lowering TA because there was not one for pools and the one in the hot tub water chemistry by Nitro, while good, contains some incorrect information. It is what worked for him but not universally applicable. The info here is applicable to both pools and hottubs/spas! If you just want the "howto" on lowering TA (Total Alkalinity) scroll down to the blue text at the end of this post. However, I strongly suggest you read all of the post since it explains WHY this works! It might look long but I've kept it very simple! There is a persistant myth in the pool/spa industry that you can lower TA by adding "slugs" of acid to the pool with the pump off and if you "walk" the acid around the pool with the pump on you will lower pH. This is pure rubbish. Any addition of acid, slugs or otherwise, will lower the TA AND the pH. Period! In addition, adding slugs of acid can damage the pool surface and adding enough acid all at once to drop the TA can lower the PH far enough to cause other damage and problems with pool equipment. IF you want more info here is a scientific paper for a detailed study showing why "slugging" vs. "walking" acid is bogus! Here is a less technical summary paper based on the research. Now, the question becomes "HOW DO I LOWER TA AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE WITHOUT DAMAGING MY POOL/SPA OR GETTING CAUGHT ON THE "DROP THE TA AND THE pH IS TOO LOW SO I ADD pH INCREASER AND THE TA IS TOO HIGH AGAIN" merry go round! If you want the answer then read on! In a nutshell this is all you have to do: 1. Add acid to lower your PH to between 7.0 and 7.2 (this also lowers TA) then test your TA 2. Aerate until PH rises to around 7.6 (the only way to raise PH without also raising TA) Repeat steps 1 and 2 until you reach the desired TA. IF your TA is very high it might not seem like anything is happening at first but keep doing this and you will find that you will lower your TA! To give you some numbers let's say that you have a 15000 gallon pool and your TA is at 180 ppm and you want it at 80 ppm (a 100 ppm decrease). You will need about 3 gallons of 20 baum (31%) muriatic acid or about 33 lbs of dry acid to do this but if you put it in all at once you will drop your pH by APPROXIMATELY 6! THIS MEANS THAT IF YOU START OUT AT A pH of 8.0 IT WILL BE ABOUT 2.0 AFTER ADDING ALL THE ACID! This is low enough to cause damage. In addition, if you "slug" the acid in the deep end with the pump off you will have a concentrated pool of acid sitting on the pool bottom for an extended period of time, which will be bad for ANY pool surface, be it plaster, vinyl, or fiberglass! No problem you say, just add some pH increaser (soda ash). That won't work because pH increaser ALSO CAUSES TA TO RISE VERY QUICKLY BECAUSE IT ADDS CARBONATE IONS TO THE WATER WHICH THEN CONVERT INTO BICARBONATE IONS (WHICH IS WHAT TA REALLY IS, A MEASURE OF HOW MUCH BICARBONATE IS IN THE WATER!) If you try this you get caught on the lower the TA, now my pH is too low, raise the pH, now my TA is even higher than before merry go round! (Even those of you who think you are chemically aware and say "I will use borax instead of pH increaser since it doesn't have that much impact on TA" will be wrong because any chemical method of raising pH WILL CAUSE TA TO RISE AGAIN! I am not going to get into the chemistry here since I want to keep it simple but if you really want an explanation let me know and I will post one in a separate topic. I warn you, it will NOT be basic basic and a knowledge of chemistry is going to be needed. I will try and keep it as simple as possible, however! ) Using the same example of a 15000 gallon pool with a TA of 180 ppm and a pH of 8.0 we would need between 3/4 and 1 gallon of 20 baum muriatic acid or a bit less than 9 lbs of dry acid to lower the pH from 8.0 to 7.0! This the the maximum amount we can really add safely at one time and now we are stuck with a pH of 7.0 which is livable but still a bit low. We have also only lowered the TA by less than 30 ppm at this point, not nearly enough! What to do? So, how can we safely get this much acid in the pool at once to lower our TA down to where we want it? We can't! So, what to do? It seems there is no answer to our dilemma! But there is and it's really pretty easy. We only add enough acid at one time to lower the pH to 7.0 and not any lower and then we need a way to raise the pH WITHOUT AFFECTING THE TA. How can we do that? One word...aeration! Let me explain. (And for any of you that want to debate the chemistry let me say that I am keeping it as simple as possible but what I am saying is basically correct, even though I am making some assumptions that are not completely true such as carbonic acid and dissolved carbon dioxide being the same. For our purposes here and the sake of a simple explanation, however, they basically are! I am also ignoring any contributions to the TA by cyanurates or borates since at their normal recommended levels these contributions are minimal.) TA is a measure of the amount of bicarbonates in the water. That is really all we are measuring since, at normal pool pH there is practically no carbonates in the water. Besides bicarbonate there is also carbonic acid (carbon dioxide dissolved in the water) present. This is the buffer system that helps keep our pH in line The ratio between the amount of carbonic acid/bicarbonate is pH dependent. The higher the pH the higher the bicarbonate ions and the lower the carbonic acid. The lower the pH the lower the bicarbonate ions and the higher the carbonic acid (operative word here is acid! Lower pH means there is more acid in the water.) Our pools and spas are purposely over carbonated! (Think seltzer). When we add acid and drop the pH we convert bicarbonate to carbonic acid (carbon dioxide in water). If any of you doubt this just pour some vinegar (acid) on baking soda (sodium BICARBONATE) and watch it fizz (release carbon dioxide). So, the simple act of adding acid to our water lowers TA (the bicarbonates) since we don't measure the amount of carbonic acid with our TA test. We also know that we do not want to drop the pH below about 7.0 since lower pH can cause all kinds of problems for us. THIS is why your test kit has an acid demand test! (You did take our advice and get yourself a GOOD test kit, right?) So the problem becomes "how do we get the pH to rise without causing the TA to go back up?" We know that if we add a chemical pH increaser it will cause the TA to go back up because we are chemically converting carbonic acid back into bicarbonates (and adding additional carbonates if we are using the usual pH increaser, sodium carbonate!) This is a no win! How can we lower the amount of carbonic acid? (operative word here is acid) Remember that I said to think seltzer? If we let a bottle of seltzer sit open it will eventually go flat. If we shake up the bottle (aerate the seltzer) it will go flat faster! Now, IF YOU TEST THE pH OF THE SELTZER BEFORE IT GOES FLAT AND AGAIN AFTER YOU WILL FIND THAT THE pH HAS GONE UP! This is because the amount of (carbonic) acid in the water is now less! It has gassed off into the atmosphere as carbon dioxide (and has not been converted into bicarbonates so the total alkalinity of our seltzer has not increased!) The same is true for your pool or spa. If you just drop the pH to 7.0 it will eventually climb back up as carbon dioxide gases off into the atmosphere. As the carbon dioxide gases off the amount of carbon dioxide dissolved in the water (carbonic acid) decreases BUT THE TA REMAINS THE SAME! As the amount of carbonic acid (operative word is acid) decreases the pH rises! However, this is a slow process and we need to speed it up by shaking up our bottle of seltzer! Er, I mean by aerating our water! (You really can't put your finger on the top of your pool and shake it up, can you?) Now the question is, how to aerate? The answer, any way that you can and the better you aerate the faster this process goes. One of the easiest ways is to get a floating fountain that attaches to a return for a pool or turn on all your jets, aerators and bubblers for a spa. If you have a spillover pool/spa combo just turn on all the spa aerators and jets and let it spill into the pool. Turn on any water features that you might have (waterfalls, deck jets, fountains, etc.) Adjust all your returns and jets to break the surface of the water! Throw 10 neighborhood kids in the pool and have them all start splashing! (Don't worry, a pH of 7.0 is not going to hurt them at all! I have heard of people taking an air compressor and using it to bubble the water like a giant airstone in an aquarium! I have heard of people making a right angle fitting for a return out of pvc fittings and pipe to shoot the water in the air like a giant fountain. Anything that will break the surface of the water and agitate it will work. The more vigorous the faster the process. Combining more than one of the above is certainly going to be more effective than just one. I think you all get the idea. So, to summarize and put it all into a step by step guide: 1. Get together the things you need: a. a good test kit that will test acid demand and TA (I recommend a Taylor K-2006 for chlorine and a K-2106 for bromine but, for adjusting TA, the K-2005 has exactly the same acid demand and TA tests and will perform equally for this purpose) b. a way to aerate the water (water feature, floating fountain, built in jets and bubblers, returns adjusted to break the water surface, a bunch of kids or adults to have a 'splash party', etc.) c. a bit of patience! (very important since this process can take several days to a few weeks if the TA is very high initially and your aeration method is not the most efficient!) d. enough acid to complete the process, usually a lot more than you think you will need! 2. Using your acid demand test drop your pH to 7.0 and not any lower. Either pour the measured amount of acid SLOWLY into the return stream and away from the skimmer or mix the acid into a large bucket of water and "walk" it around the pool. Predissolve dry acid in a bucket of water and "walk" it around the pool if you use it instead of muriatic. In either case, ALWAYS ADD ACID TO WATER AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND OR IT COULD VIOLENTLY SPLASH OUT OF THE BUCKET OR CONTAINER YOU ARE MIXING IT IN. THIS APPLIES TO BOTH DRY ACID AND PARTICULARLY TO MURIATIC ACID! 3. Test your TA (at first it will not move much, if at all!) 4. Begin aerating and do not stop until the process is complete and TA is where you want it (if this is possible). 5. Monitor pH and when i climbs above 7.4 do another acid demand test and add enough acid to drop the pH to 7.0 again. 6. Test TA again. If TA is still too high keep aerating until pH is above 7.4, dropping pH to 7.0, and testing TA. Be sure to do an acid demand test each time because THE AMOUNT OF ACID YOU WILL NEED TO DROP THE pH TO 7.0 WILL DECREASE AS THE TA DECREASES AND THE SPEED AT WHICH THE TA DECREASES WILL INCREASE AS THE TA DECREASES! Do not try and cut corners by not testing every time or using the same amount of acid every time! If you do you will run the risk of dropping the pH well below 7.0 and potentially causing damage to pool surfaces or equipment! 7. When you TA test indicates that your TA is exactly where you want it to be then just aerate the water until is is between 7.4 and 7.6 and you are done! The process is actually easier than it reads once you start doing it so don't be afraid of it. This is the ONLY way to safely and effectively lower TA in a pool or spa. Don't get discouraged if nothing seems to be happening at first. You will soon seen the TA start to drop as you continue the process. Also realize that as the TA drops the process speeds up and you will need less and less acid to drop the pH to 7.0 and each drop to 7.0 seems to 'eat up' the TA faster. Good luck!