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waterbear last won the day on April 6

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About waterbear

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  1. Chlorine levels for shock and normal sanitizing depend on the CYA level. This post has links to some relevant information on what chlorine levels should be for different levels of CYA: https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/53138-going-out-of-town-what-to-do/&do=findComment&comment=206016 FWIW, many state health departments and the CDC state that FC levels of 10 ppm or lower are safe to enter with NO CYA in the water.
  2. Chlorine is not a sensitizer and, in fact, "bleach baths" with a concentration of around 50 ppm chlorine are often recommended to treat eczema in children and adults so I would look for another source. https://www.aad.org/public/diseases/eczema/childhood/treating/bleach-bath https://www.healthline.com/health/bleach-bath-for-eczema#How-to-do-it https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/atopic-dermatitis-eczema/expert-answers/eczema-bleach-bath/faq-20058413 Are you using MPS? This has been known to cause skin irritation. It could also be 'hot tub itch' which is a skin in
  3. Yes, borax is alkaline. Adding enough to achieve 50 ppm borate will drastically raise your pH. The amount of acid is what is needed to bring the pH back down. This is also why you have to break up the dosing. FWIW, borax can be used to raise pH at twice the dose of pH up (sodium carbonate) in cases where pH needs to be brought up (such as an overdose of acid) and it will have MINIMAL impact on TA, unlike sodium carbonate which will shoot TA higher than before you started. IF you are using a 5 ml sample with a .5 drop equivalent 1 drop means .5 ppm CC and 2 drops mean 1 ppm cc. I
  4. How are you testing? (IF using FAS-DPD what size sample?) IF your CC is 1 ppm or less don't worry about it. It's often impossible to achieve lower CC levels in a spa. if it's .5 ppm or less you do not need to shock. Even 1 ppm or less if it does not climb any higher is OK and shocking is not really needed unless you want to. Just chlorinate as usual to maintain a FC of 4 to 6 ppm (assuming CYA of 30 ppm) IF you have persistent CC of over 1 ppm then other actions might need to be taken. Don't overthink it. It's not a chemistry set, it's a spa. Enjoy it. Soon you will know just what YOUR spa ne
  5. no, it's good for years as ling as it stays dry. 21 oz by weight of borax (decahydrate- 20 mule team) and 10 oz of 31.45% (20 Baume) muriatic acid add 1/4 of the borax and let it dissolve with jets running, add 1/4 of the acid in the stream of a jet and let it circulate. Repeat 3 more times. 13 oz by weight of boric acid. It will cause a slight drop in pH but pH should rise on its own. Just make sure pH is 7.6 or above before adding. IF you use a commercial product like Gentle Spa (which is usually a mixture of boric acid and the pentahydrate form of borax) follow dos
  6. IF it can be shut off (not all can be) it's probably a good idea since it will cause the chlorine to drop faster. FWIW, quats and polyquat also don't play well with oxidizing sanitizers like chlorine. The are oxidized by the chlorine causing both the level of quats and chlorine to drop. This is why it s recommended to wait 24 hours between shocking and using a quat based algaecide. Also, if you leave the tub running be prepared for foaming if you use a linear quat. Polyquat and borate do not cause the water to foam. Also, borate does not cause chlorine levels to drop. The foaming makes se
  7. I suggested turning off the system while you are gone in a previous post: Since you are already using borate and it's at 50 ppm just shock, cover, and shut it off. When you get back turn it back on, test the water and shock or rebalance as needed. . IF sanitizer is still within range or a bit high (it might be if it's only been a week) and everything else is good just heat it up and your good.
  8. Borate is not a necessity but it does make maintenance easier, has some effect at preventing biofilms, and also improves the 'feel' of the water on your skin (hard to describe but everyone that uses borate notices it). Borax is better for raising pH than sodium carbonate since it can raise pH with minimal impact on TA while sodium carbonate tends to make the TA go very high (which is useful if you are using trichlor which tends to cause both pH and TA to crash). FWIW, needing to raise pH in a spa is very unusual. Most spas have a problem pH rise because of the aeration so you are one of t
  9. Bring the TA up to the 50 to 70 range with baking soda (this is what TA increaser is) then lower the pH to 7.6 to 7.8 which will not affect the TA. As for borate, you can use a commercial product like Gentle Spa by Proteam, Borax (either tetrahydrate like 20 Mule Team or pentahydrate, only difference is the amount needed to achieve 50 ppm along with enough acid to counteract the pH rise from the alkaline Borax, or boric acid which will cause a small drop in pH. If you need more detailed dosing info just ask.
  10. Short answer, you can't. I would not have raised the TA. Nitro initially based some of his levels on pools and not spas and did not take into account the much higher aeration in spas that tends to cause pH to rise.
  11. These tests are done when products are being developed. If they are used off label then we don't know so shocking to the correct level (or making sure biguanide and peroxide levels are in range) takes care of the problem. As I said, you can do whatever you want in your spa but to promote this as a safe and effective spa sanitation procedure is irresponsible, particularly for any newbies that might try to follow it. Remember that I am a moderator and I monitor not only spam but also potentially dangerous information.
  12. However, you have done no tests of the water for pathogen levels so you really don't know if it is safe, only that it doesn't look cloudy. This is a major flaw in your 'testing'. Also, your sample size of 1 is way too small to be meaningful.
  13. FWIW, your experiment is flawed. Just because the water looks clear does not mean it's sanitized. Bacterial growth started when your sanitizer dropped but it takes time for enough growth to cloud the water. This was a common marketing claim of copper based pool 'sanitizers', that the water would stay clear. However, this 'clear looking' water contained very high pathogen loads and was not safe water. This is why these types of products now say that they are to be used with chlorine or bromine since they were basically algaecides and had very slow kill times. Your water stayed clear for an ext
  14. Perhaps the first order of business is an understanding of exactly what an EPA registration number means and what a biocide is. According to the EPA a biocide is pesticide that kills microorganisms. It does not specify which microoganism it kills and is a very broad umbrella. For example, all sanitizers are biocides but not all biocides are santizers. All algaecides are biocides but not all biocides are algaecides. All fungicides are biocides but not all biocides are fungicides. Quats are registered as biocides in pools and spa. Most are sold as algaecides. Copper based products are also
  15. No, I wrote it several years back. It was posted here and also on TFP from when I was mod there (from when TPF was still owned by the person who started it. )Not sure if it is still on TFP or not. I don't frequent that board anymore. This board changed ownership several years back and many of the pinned posts were removed. I will rewrite it and repost it as soon as I get a chance within the next weeks.
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