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waterbear last won the day on November 6

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  • Birthday 02/24/1954

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  1. pH tends to rise on it's own. If it drops then raise the TA to around 100 ppm. https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/52522-some-truths-about-ph-and-ta/
  2. This is for a chlorine tub or pool using dichlor or trichlor, particularity trichlor
  3. Hydrogen peroxide will destroy any residual halogen sanitizer in the water. The only fast acting residual sanitizer that works with H2O2 is biguinide, although some use it with metals such as silver or copper. However, this can lead to staining.
  4. Phosphates do not deplete chlorine! Algae and biofilms deplete chlorine. Read that a few times and let it sink in! Listen to @Ahhsomeguy, he speaks the truth!!!!!! Phosphates are a non issue. Phosphates are one of two algae foods that can be found in a tub or pool. The other is nitrates. We don't test for nitrate since the only way to lower them is by changing out the water with nitrate/phosphate free water. Phosphates can be precipitates and then filtered out by Lanthanum salts (a messy process at best). However, it does give pool stores another product they can sell you! (I used to work in that sector of the industry so I do have knowledge on this). The way phosphate removers work is they remove one of the food sources for algae growth. However this will only work if phosphates are the limiting factor in algae growth. Often they are not and nitrates are the problem. I'm not saying that phosphate removers are a scam but the are unnecessary almost all the time. If algae is the problem maintaining proper chlorine levels for the CYA level will take care of the problem as will addition of a polyquat 60 (Polyloxyethylene Idimethyliminiol ethylene· (dimethyliminiol ethylene dichloride) based algacide if needed (stay away from linear quats and copper based algacides). Phosphates and nitrates usually find their way into pools and spas by runoff from fertilizer. Since spas are kept covered most of the time one of the necessary items for algae growth, sunlight, is absent so the problem in spas is the formation of biofilm in the plumbing. This can occur whether the phosphate levels are high or non-existent. The solution is to purge the spa on a regular basis as @Ahhsomeguysuggested. FWIW, my pool and spa have phosphate levels of over 10,000 ppb (that is parts per billion, not parts per million or ppm) and have for about 20 years now and I do not use phosphate remover nor do I have algae or biofilm Phosphate removers are usually recommended for phosphate levels of 100 ppb but research has indicated that if they are going to have any impact on algae growth (i.e. they are the limiting factor) it does not occur below 1000 ppb.
  5. Hydrogen peroxide is an oxidizer, and UV is not residual. Disinfection only takes place in the reaction chamber where the UV light is located.This is why it is not an approved sanitizer system. You still need a fast acting residual sanitizer!
  6. What brand and model of testing kit are you using? (It does matter!) Read these posts!!!!!! They will provide some background info (based on the actual chemistry that goes on in the water) https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/52522-some-truths-about-ph-and-ta/ https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/28846-lowering-total-alkalinity-howto/ They actually add chlorine and ammonia . They do this because the monochloramne produce is more stable than just chlorine. As far as the pH of liquid chlorine it it net neutral (alkaline on addition, acidic on consumption) so it really has minimal impact on pH. This is also true for cal hypo.
  7. FC free chlorine CC combined chlorine or combined chloramines TC total chlorine pH Potential Hydrogen (how acidic or alkaline a solution is) TA total alkalinity (the measure of bicarbonate ions in the water) CH Calcium Hardness TH Total Hardness (calcium and magnesium--useless for balancing water but most test strips only test total hardness and not calcium hardness) CYA or CA cyanuric acid which is used to stabilize chlorine but too much will limit the disinfection ability Br bromine BCDMH Bromo-chloro-5,5-dimethylhydantoin (bromine tablets), normally used in a floater cal hypo calcium hypochlorite, an inorganic powdered chlorine source that adds 7 ppm CH for every 10 ppm of FC added and is net pH neutral on use (alkaline when added, acidic on sanitation) trichlor a slow dissolving organic chlorine source that adds 6 ppm CYA for every 10 ppm of FC added, It's extremely acidic (acidic when added, acidic on sanitation)and not normally recommended for hot tubs. It is normally used in a floater or feeder Dichlor a fast dissolving organic chlorine source that adds 9 ppm of CYA for every 10 ppm of FC added.It is slightly acidic (acidic when added, acidic on sanitation) Liquid Chlorine or Shock, plain unscented chlorine laundry bleach, sodium hypochlorite an inorganic liquid chlorine source that is net pH neutral on use (alkaline when added, acidic on sanitation). It's main side effect is causing a slight increase in salt level (sodium chloride), which has no negative effect on water chemistry.
  8. Some ice melters are ok, most are not. Pure calcium chloride in a 50 lb bag (food grade is not necessary, 77% - 80% is what is normally sold for swimming pools) from an online chemical retailer or pool store (online or brick and mortar) that also caters to pool service pros is your most economical option. Be aware that the dosing is different for the dihydrate and the anhydrous forms with the latter being more concentrated. Either way, one bag will last a very long time.
  9. Keep adding drops until the last drop added produces no additional change and then don't count that last drop. In other other words, you've added 7 drops and it's red, You add one more drop for a total of 8 drops and the red stays the same, Don't count the last drop, you reached your endpoint at 7 drops. depends on the test, Testing should really be done with room temperature samples so if you are testing before heating and it's not freezing cold you are good. If the water is cold bring the sample indoors until it reaches room temp. and then test. You can adjust TA with sanitizer in the water as long as it's not at shock level. With Taylor reagents sanitizer should be below 10 ppm, with Pentair reagents 5 ppm. borax (soidum teteaborate decahydrate) , sodium tetraborate pentahydrate, or boric acid. Both penahydrate forms will raise pH so need acid (either muriatic or dry) added to maintain the pH in proper range. Boric acid will slightly lower pH (which quickly goes back to where it was with some aeration. As long as your pH is above 7.4 the slight lowering can be ignored.) Boric acid is more expensive than borax but still less expense than the commercial pentahydrate products like, Supreme and Optimizer. Gentle Spa, Supreme Plus, and Optmizer Plua are mixture sof boric acid and pentahydratre to make a pH neutral product. My recommendation is boric acid. Easy to dose, pH change is minimal, and price is reasonable. Not that I am aware of but I am by no means an expert on Cedar tubs.
  10. bromine. Chlorine converts the bromide in the water into bromine sanitizer, You won't have chlorine, only bromine. Leave the tub uncovered and circulating until sanitizer level has dropped. yes try cutting back to every two weeks or even monthly. put fewer tablets in the floater. also not all floaters are created equal. Most don't maintain bromine levels very well. Get a Pentair floater, best one made, IMHO. Model 330 for 3" tablets, 335 for 1" tablets. Stay away from the 332. It is cheaper but does not allow for the same level of adjustments.
  11. Lowering TA can be done with either muriatic, sulfuric, or dry acid. Dry acid is sodium bisulfite and when dissolved in water forms sulfurous acid. The procedure to lower TA is here: https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/28846-lowering-total-alkalinity-howto/ If you don't have jets it can still be done, it will just take longer. worst case, just get into the tub and splash. If you can rig a piece of PVC pipe with a right angle to your return so it shoots the water into the air and then falls back into the tub that will work. You want surface agitation to facilitate the outgassing of CO2.
  12. Because of the increased demand for lithium in lithium ion batteries it's become next to impossible to find these day, at least in the US and Canada. However, if I am not mistaken it is still available in Australia. I am optimistic that it will eventually return. In the meantime, sodium hypochlorite is the best substitute. The only advantage that lithium has over bleach is that it's a fast dissolving powder which some find easier to dose. It's main disadvantage is that it's always been the most expen$ive form of chlorine.
  13. Please post a full set of test results. (free chlorine, either combined chlorine or total chlorine, pH , cyanuric acid, total alkalinity and calcium hardness) and we can give you recommendatons and dosing based on YOUR pool! If you smell a 'chlorine smell" that usually indicated combined chlorine (the bad chlorine that does not sanitize, irritates eyes, and has a strong smell that forms when chlorine combines with ammonia and other organics from bathers in the water) and indicates the need to superchlorinate by raising your free chlorine above 10 to 20 ppm, depending on your cyanuric acid level. This is often referred to as shocking. FWIW, shock is NOT a special product, it's something you do. Any form of chlorine can be used as a chock but you should avoid stabilized chlorine since it will raise the cyanuric acid level . Most 'shock' products are either calcium hypochlorite , lithium hypochorite (both powders), or sodium hypochlorite (liquid pool shock or liquid pool chlorine or laundry bleach). Avoid shocks that are dichlor or trichlor based. Free chlorine (the good chlorine that sanitizes) has no odor in a pool.
  14. In a word, no. Because of the nature of testing bromine and chlorine with either DPD or OTO , if you are testing for bromine and it's in range then you also will have the correct level of chlorine. At first you will have a chlorine spa but as the bromide bank builds up (which can take several week) the spa will gradually convert into a bromine spa. Just assume it's bromine from the start and maintain adequate sanitizer.
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