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waterbear

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waterbear last won the day on December 9 2021

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  1. You are confusing 2 bromine with dichlor/bleach (chlorine). IF you seeded with bromine you have a bromine spa. CYA has no effect. You are NOT running a chlorine spa. Please read my pinned post on 3 step bromine in the hot tub water chemistry section and ignore any posts about dichlor/bleach.
  2. https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/52522-some-truths-about-ph-and-ta/
  3. not enough information to answer your question. No idea what the "offbrand mineral sticks" contain or what sanitizer they are designed for. Most minerals sticks are designed for chlorine. Frog does make some that are for bromine also.
  4. If you added bromine you are not using the dichlor/bleach method. You are using bromine. Period. CYA has no impact on a bromine tub since it does not stabilize bromine.
  5. I only see it posted once in this topic. Is it also posted in another topic?
  6. The main cause of pH rise is outgassing of CO2. TA is basically a measure of bicarbonate in the water. Bicarbonate is a buffer system (actually a bicarbonate/carbonic acid buffer. For our purposes think of carbonic acid as CO2 dissolved in water.). The higher the TA the more bicarbonate in the water. The more bicarbonate the more CO2 in the water. The more CO2 the more it will outgas and the faster the pH will rise. Outgassing will occur whether the water is agitated by aeration or not. However the more the water is agitated (by water movement from the jets or people in the tub or by air injectors or salt water generators or ozone generators the faster the outgassing will occur. Read both of these for a better understanding of the chemistry involved: https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/52522-some-truths-about-ph-and-ta/ https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/28846-lowering-total-alkalinity-howto/
  7. Many people in the industry really don't understand the actual chemistry that occurs in the water and are just repeating the same misinformation that they learned in a 'training' over and over again. Acceptable pH range for a bromine tub is 7.0 to 8.0. read this post for a better understanding of the actual chemistry in layman's terms: https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/28846-lowering-total-alkalinity-howto/
  8. It's your pool and you can do whatever you want. Personally, I would not because every bather adds fecal matter, urine, and sweat to the water (sweat is almost identical chemically to urine) no matter how clean they THINK they are.This is why fast acting residual oxidizing sanitizer is needed. Your laws in the UK are very different from ours in the US and products like this are not permitted to be sold as primary sanitizers The risk of water borne illnesses are real. Personally I would not take the chance. As I initially stated I am not a fan of metal based systems for several reasons.
  9. Safesol seems like it might be a UK based distributor or repackager and I find it interesting that when I search for Huwasan Pool I get this link to the manufacturer https://www.roamtechnology.com/en/products/huwa-san/huwa-san-for-spapool-wellness/ but when I click on it I get a page not found error meaning that Roam Technology has taken it down for some reason. This could be a red flag that they are no longer recommending their product for pool and spa water. Pools and spas needs a fast acting and residual sanitizer and oxidizer. Silver is not fact acting but can be effective if there is a long enough time for it to sanitize. However, a pool or spa constantly has more organic matter and bacteria , fungi, and viruses added with each new bather. so it really does not fill the bill. Peroxide is a fast acting oxidizer and it will not last that long in the water when an organic load is introduced so constant monitoring is necessary to make sure that there is adequate residual in the water at all times to oxidize the organic matter introduced by each bather. Bottom line, both silver and copper are effective algacides which allows them to be called biocides but they are not effective as fast kills for bacteria and fungi and ineffective against viruses. They are useful for water treatment applications where the water is in a closed storage tank or container for enough time to sanitize before the water is used such as agricultural uses and water features, which are not constantly having new biological material added as is the situation with a pool or spa, which are "open" systems as opposed to the former which are "closed" systems. Peroxide is an effective oxidizer but not really a residual sanitizer. It it similar to MPS (non chlorine shock) in that respect. Peroxide will oxidizer organics quickly by releasing oxygen and becoming water and therefore, the level needs to be monitored and maintained or you really have noting that will sanitize and oxidize quickly. A
  10. I am not a fan of silver/peroxide systems. Silver has very slow kill times and is not effective against viruses. Also silver, whether introduces through an ionizer or added chemically (usually in the form of silver nitrate) can and does stain and silver staining is next to impossible to remove. My other concern is that the parent company that manufactures Huwa-san (Roam Technology in Belgium) makes no mention of use in pools and spas, they only list it for water features such as fountains and for livestock and agricultural solutions.
  11. You are running bromine, not chlorine. Even if you add just chlorine to a bromine system it will convert to bromine.Think in terms of bromine, not chlorine, even if the bromide bank has not built up after a fresh fill. It will make your life easier. How often were you adding the one step bromine product to your spa? Usually, if you are not using a floater with tabs, you need to dose every day to every other day so you maintain a constant sanitizer level. Adding a floater and adjusting it to maintain the sanitizer at a constant level will make life easier and yo will not need to does as often. I wold recommend weekly shocking with the granular product in that case. It probably won't. Reread the links I posted and lower your TA. Test FC and multiply the results by 2.25 to get total bromine. No need to test for CC, not applicable. Also, no need to test CYA, not applicable to bromine. In fact, the CYA test is not included in the Taylor K-22106 FAS-DPD test kit for bromine along with the reagent for testing CC. The TA and CH tests are identical in both kits. Don't worry about it. Just maintain your santizer in the 4 to 6 ppm range and test as if the bromide bank is there. It will be in a short time. If you have ozone or UV it could get oxidized to bromate, which is an undesired oxidation product that won't convert into hypobroumous acid, which is your acitve bromine sanitizer. IF you are draining and refilling every 3 to 4 months as recommended it's a non issue, even with ozone/UV. Tablets in a floater will also contribute to the bromide bank. As I said earlier, a floater will make your maintenance a bit easier once you get the floater adjusted properly to maintain your sanitizer level.. Use the granular product weekly to shock (raise the bromine to above 10 ppm.)
  12. You can, Eventually it will build up a bromide bank. Until it does you have a chlorine spa. The transition is nothing you have to worry about as long as you are keeping your sanitizer at the correct level (4 to 6 ppm) You are in Canada so you cannot get sodium bromide, it's been outlawed, so if you want to run bromine your choices are a one step product like you are using or using bromine tabs in a floater or using both together. In a few weeks there will be enough bromide in the water and you will no longer have chlorine, you will have bromine. Just keep the sanitizer in the 4 to 6 ppm range and don't loose any sleep over it. https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/53410-how-to-use-bromine-3-step-method/ You are confusing the dichlor/bleach method (chlorine spa) with 3 step bromine (bromine spa). DIchlor really is not a problem with bromine as it can be with chlorine because of stabilizer buildup over time. DIchlor is a granular, fast dissolving organic chlorine source. Trichlor is a slow dissolving organic chlorine source in tablet form and not recommended for spas and hot tubs because of it's very low pH. Both trichlor and dichlor add CYA (stabilizer) to the water and build up over time (for dichlor it's pretty fast). Once the CYA gets high the chlorine becomes less effective at sanitizing and oxidizing and the water starts having problems. However, some CYA is necessary in a chlorine tub or pool. The solution is to switch to an inorganic chlorine source such as bleach (liquid pool chlorine, Sodium Hypochlorite), Calcium Hypochlorite or cal hypo, Lithium Hypochlorite once the CYA reaches the desired level, usually about 30 ppm. These do not contain CYA so they will not cause it to continue rising. Both calcium and lithium hypochlorite are granular products. Lithium hypo is very expensive but has no other drawbacks, CAl hypo will cause calcium hardness to climb so it can be problematic. Sodium hypochlorite is liquid, inexpensive, and effective. You might know it as liquid laundry bleach. FWIW, ANY of these chlorine sources can be used to oxidize a bromide bank into bromine sanitizer. one step bromine products such as you have are mostly dichlor with a small amount of sodium bromide and bromine tabs are mostly chlorine/Dimethylhydantoin conpounds with a small amount of bromine/Dimethylhydantoin compunds. Once again the chlorine oxidizes the bromine compound to form active bromine sanitizer (hypobromous acid.) Your TA is WAY too high at 110 ppm. Lower it to 50 to 70 ppm and keep your pH around 7.7 and you will have much better pH stability. https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/52522-some-truths-about-ph-and-ta/ https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/28846-lowering-total-alkalinity-howto/ Which Taylor test kit do you have? First, you are running a bromine spa so ignore CYA, it has no effect on bromine. Your pH is fine, bromine is effective over a wide pH range (7.2 to 8.0) If your test kit has a specific test for bromine or has a bromine scale on the comparator block use it and ignore the chlorine scale. If it only has a chlorine scale or test only do the test for free chlorine and multiply the results by 2.25 to get the total bromine reading (just doubling the chlorine reading is close enough so make it easy on yourself). CH is fine. You want enough hardness to help prevent foaming but not so much that you will have a tendency to scale. 130 to 200 PPM is fine. If your sanitizer is not holding then something is consuming it (purge the spa) or you are not adding enough or adding it often enough to maintain your bromine level in the correct range (add sanitizer daily and make sure you are adding enough, You might want to consider adding a floater with bromine tablets and adjust it to maintain the bromine level in the 4 to 6 ppm range, also shock weekly with chlorine, either dichlor or bleach (not your one step bromine sanitizer which is a mixture of dichlor and sodium bromide) , You want to add enough to raise the sanitizer above 10 ppm. with the spa running and uncovered. Wait for the sanitizer to drop to 10 ppm or lower before entering or covering. Do this weekly as part of your normal maintenance.. most likely or you might have biofilm in the plumbing and need to purge the spa. New spas are water tested by the manufacturers and the water left inside often breeds biofilm. If maintaining the sanitizer in the correct 4 to 6 ppm total bromine and weekly shocking don't solve the problem then you should consider purging the spa.
  13. Laundry bleach from such places as Walmart or grocery stores is also fine to use as long as it's 5%, 6.25% or 8.25% sodium hypochlorite and it is not scented or thickened. I usually buy bleach at Walmart or my local grocery. In fact, Lowes, Home Depot and my local grocery all stock 10% pool chlorine in my area also.
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