No Matter Where You Buy Do It Right!

[Chad M]

Guys/Gals,

My electrical inspector father sent this to me and I figured I would pass on to you. It's a very sad story (being the father of a 4-year old myself) the importance of using a certified electrician, obtaining the proper permits for your municipality, and not taking shortcuts on wiring our spa's. This is not a spa related incidence, but can easily happen if things are not done properly. As I know some of you are first time spa buyers, again just a safety message for you from Strong Industries, please please please don't let this happen to you. Spend the extra $ to have it done right, and by someone who's done it before. This may seem a little preachy, but it's more than worth it to protect you and your loved ones!

Thanks,

Chad

[Dnepr Dave]

That's a sad story, but it has nothing to do with do it yourself wiring.

You can save money by doing it yourself. Just be sure to study, understand and follow the latest electrical code. The code book is available at your local library. My wife and I wired our own house and had it inspected, the inspector found no problems. He even complemented my wife on her circuit breaker box, saying, "It's the prettiest one I ever saw!"

Dave

[andob45]

That's a sad story, but it has nothing to do with do it yourself wiring.

You can save money by doing it yourself. Just be sure to study, understand and follow the latest electrical code. The code book is available at your local library. My wife and I wired our own house and had it inspected, the inspector found no problems. He even complemented my wife on her circuit breaker box, saying, "It's the prettiest one I ever saw!"

Dave

that is great that you were able to do the wiring yourselves even better if you had no electrical experience at all, but the code book is not intended to be a how to wiring book for novices or people with no electrical experience at all. some people such as yourselves can study it and understand it, but i would not recommend just anybody trying to hook up a spa or any other major electrical appliance just by reading the code book and with no other experience or knowledge of the trade, IMHO

[kiamo]

different people have different aptitudes...so let common sense prevail.

just bear in mind, 120VAC may give a hell of a "tingle", but 220/240 VAC will most likely kill you! (or possibly a loved one...)

if your not sure, find someone who is.

regards,

roger

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

Guys/Gals,

My electrical inspector father sent this to me and I figured I would pass on to you. It's a very sad story (being the father of a 4-year old myself) the importance of using a certified electrician, obtaining the proper permits for your municipality, and not taking shortcuts on wiring our spa's. This is not a spa related incidence, but can easily happen if things are not done properly. As I know some of you are first time spa buyers, again just a safety message for you from Strong Industries, please please please don't let this happen to you. Spend the extra $ to have it done right, and by someone who's done it before. This may get me in a little trouble at work, but it's more than worth it to protect you and your loved ones!

Thanks,

Chad

Just an FYI, I can't even tell you how many certified electricians have messed up the wiring to hot tubs that I've been called out to service over the years.

[Chad M]

Guys/Gals,

My electrical inspector father sent this to me and I figured I would pass on to you. It's a very sad story (being the father of a 4-year old myself) the importance of using a certified electrician, obtaining the proper permits for your municipality, and not taking shortcuts on wiring our spa's. This is not a spa related incidence, but can easily happen if things are not done properly. As I know some of you are first time spa buyers, again just a safety message for you from Strong Industries, please please please don't let this happen to you. Spend the extra $ to have it done right, and by someone who's done it before. This may get me in a little trouble at work, but it's more than worth it to protect you and your loved ones!

Thanks,

Chad

Absolutely!! Believe me I talk to tons of them every day! That's why when choosing your electrician do like we said and use one that has done a spa before. There are even certified techs who are certified electricians.

Chad

Just an FYI, I can't even tell you how many certified electricians have messed up the wiring to hot tubs that I've been called out to service over the years.

[JimKW]

I considered doing mine myself and after watching the guy I hired do it, I am fairly certain I could have done it. But I hired a company that does work for two of the local spa dealers. I think the piece of mind I have when my Grandkids, my kids, my wife and I get in the Hot Tub is worth the $698 he charged me. The idea of a 220V circuit and water was just a combination that I did NOT like as a DIY project.

I am saving a ton of money building my own privacy fence around my yard though. That is something I feel comfortable with as a DIY project.

[andob45]

different people have different aptitudes...so let common sense prevail.

just bear in mind, 120VAC may give a hell of a "tingle", but 220/240 VAC will most likely kill you! (or possibly a loved one...)if your not sure, find someone who is.

regards,

roger

Any voltage can potentially Kill or seriously injure, at the right amperage. Always treat all voltage that way. I second those words of wisdom "If you are not sure find someone who is. "

[Stuart A]

Just an FYI, I can't even tell you how many certified electricians have messed up the wiring to hot tubs that I've been called out to service over the years.

In England I have come across other installations which do not comply with the regs. The problem is that people can become certified without all the formal qualifications.

In the trade over here only people who have done the electrical theory as well as the practice can obtain a JIB card, which lists their qualifications, its just trying to educate the customer about these, unfortunatley most people just look at the cost of the installation and normally go with th cheapest quote.

When a new circuit is installed it must be tested and a certificate issued. Some people seem to think they can install new circuits without testing the earth fault loop impedance and earth continuty and all the other tests, these are basic safety measures and ensure the resistance is low enough to trip the breaker within the set time.

[hot_water]

different people have different aptitudes...so let common sense prevail.

just bear in mind, 120VAC may give a hell of a "tingle", but 220/240 VAC will most likely kill you! (or possibly a loved one...)if your not sure, find someone who is.

regards,

roger

Any voltage can potentially Kill or seriously injure, at the right amperage. Always treat all voltage that way. I second those words of wisdom "If you are not sure find someone who is. "

Thank you for this comment. You are precisely correct, and the need for your comment points out that folks really don't fully understand the nature of what they're playing with. The "tingle" is annoying and often happens because the current is passing through a single HAND. If it finds its way through your body - say, from one hand to the other (through your chest) you are unilkely to be commenting on the tingle in the future... or commenting at all in the future for that matter.

And thanks also to Stuart A for the comment on formal qualification. This is another HUGE point. The logic is faulty to say, "...study, understand and follow the latest electrical code". Just because you review the book that you find at the library does NOT mean that you truly understand it. You haven't been tested, so you have no objective way to know if you understand or if you merely "think" you understand. People that are truly familiar with the code know that there are requirements that are buried in certain sections that apply to certain situations. It's pretty hard to master all this - the NEC is over an inch thick - with a casual perusal of the code book.

I am reasonably certain that no one undertakes a wiring job believing that they don't know what they're doing, or sets out to electrocute themselves. But it happens. The people in the video didn't want to kill the little boy. A run through some of the posts on this forum is evidence enough of the lack of basic understanding that many people have. Most of them are quite sure they are being perfectly competent.

Because it's a safety issue, they system relies on multiple levels of validation. The electrician must be licensed, but he could make an error or have gotten those questions on the test wrong. So the inspector comes in. Most are looking FIRST at safety -- grounding and bonding, and it's one of those things where the more they find, the harder they look. Between a capable electrician and a qualified inspector, you have vastly increased your odds of getting a safe installation - not to 100%, but pretty decent odds. If the installer is not qualified and only "thinks" he/she knows what he/she's doing, then it all falls on the inspector. Your odds just went down because now there is only ONE set of qualified eyeballs on the job.

Nevertheless, many localities allow homeowners to do their own residential electrical wiring. Please consider the risks versus the cost versus your experience and level of understanding should you wish to undertake this. Saving a few hundred bucks is tempting, but spending it on funerals... not so much.

[andob45]

different people have different aptitudes...so let common sense prevail.

just bear in mind, 120VAC may give a hell of a "tingle", but 220/240 VAC will most likely kill you! (or possibly a loved one...)if your not sure, find someone who is.

regards,

roger

Any voltage can potentially Kill or seriously injure, at the right amperage. Always treat all voltage that way. I second those words of wisdom "If you are not sure find someone who is. "

Thank you for this comment. You are precisely correct, and the need for your comment points out that folks really don't fully understand the nature of what they're playing with. The "tingle" is annoying and often happens because the current is passing through a single HAND. If it finds its way through your body - say, from one hand to the other (through your chest) you are unilkely to be commenting on the tingle in the future... or commenting at all in the future for that matter.

And thanks also to Stuart A for the comment on formal qualification. This is another HUGE point. The logic is faulty to say, "...study, understand and follow the latest electrical code". Just because you review the book that you find at the library does NOT mean that you truly understand it. You haven't been tested, so you have no objective way to know if you understand or if you merely "think" you understand. People that are truly familiar with the code know that there are requirements that are buried in certain sections that apply to certain situations. It's pretty hard to master all this - the NEC is over an inch thick - with a casual perusal of the code book.

I am reasonably certain that no one undertakes a wiring job believing that they don't know what they're doing, or sets out to electrocute themselves. But it happens. The people in the video didn't want to kill the little boy. A run through some of the posts on this forum is evidence enough of the lack of basic understanding that many people have. Most of them are quite sure they are being perfectly competent.

Because it's a safety issue, they system relies on multiple levels of validation. The electrician must be licensed, but he could make an error or have gotten those questions on the test wrong. So the inspector comes in. Most are looking FIRST at safety -- grounding and bonding, and it's one of those things where the more they find, the harder they look. Between a capable electrician and a qualified inspector, you have vastly increased your odds of getting a safe installation - not to 100%, but pretty decent odds. If the installer is not qualified and only "thinks" he/she knows what he/she's doing, then it all falls on the inspector. Your odds just went down because now there is only ONE set of qualified eyeballs on the job.

Nevertheless, many localities allow homeowners to do their own residential electrical wiring. Please consider the risks versus the cost versus your experience and level of understanding should you wish to undertake this. Saving a few hundred bucks is tempting, but spending it on funerals... not so much.

very well said Hot water. Thank you!

[Dnepr Dave]

Buncha pussies!

Dave

[Mikey_in_NY]

Buncha pussies!

Dave

I'd rather be an alive pussie, than a dead DIY hero.

Is it really worth risking doing the wiring yourself to save a few hundred $ (or less) when you're gonna spend upwards of $5,000 on a hot tub?

For me "no", for others - your call.

[Dnepr Dave]

A predictable response. Did you notice the smiley?

Yes, electricity is dangerous but it isn't complicated and it isn't magic.

If you understand what you are doing, you can do a job that is as good or better than a professional would do.

I'm a do it yourself guy, I used to hire professionals but ended up fixing what they did about 50% of the time. When you do your own wiring you take greater care than a guy who is there for the day and never seen again, you oversize things, where it would make your project last longer and be safer.

Yes there are good, honest contractors out there and when I find them I hire them, but I still keep an eye on their work.

Dave

[Huskytub]

Yes, electricity is dangerous but it isn't complicated and it isn't magic.

If you understand what you are doing, you can do a job that is as good or better than a professional would do.

I'm a do it yourself guy, I used to hire professionals but ended up fixing what they did about 50% of the time. When you do your own wiring you take greater care than a guy who is there for the day and never seen again, you oversize things, where it would make your project last longer and be safer.

Yes there are good, honest contractors out there and when I find them I hire them, but I still keep an eye on their work.

Dave

Dave,

I agree 100% especially the part about crappy work. I grew up with my father teaching me, in the automotive field, that "the work you do reflects directly upon you, do it right the first time, do it neatly, and be proud to say you did the job"..... It seems to me that today's workers are not like the "old school" workers who took pride in what they did and how it LOOKED when done. All they want is the cash. My FIL had an electrician wire his addition and it looked like a 2 year old did it. Guess what, it passed inspection with flying colors.......The outlets and switch plates were not even level or square with the floor for pete's sake. Sorry if I hurt any contractors feeling's out there but this type of work seems to be the "norm" today.

[Chad M]

Yes, electricity is dangerous but it isn't complicated and it isn't magic.

If you understand what you are doing, you can do a job that is as good or better than a professional would do.

I'm a do it yourself guy, I used to hire professionals but ended up fixing what they did about 50% of the time. When you do your own wiring you take greater care than a guy who is there for the day and never seen again, you oversize things, where it would make your project last longer and be safer.

Yes there are good, honest contractors out there and when I find them I hire them, but I still keep an eye on their work.

Dave

Dave,

I agree 100% especially the part about crappy work. I grew up with my father teaching me, in the automotive field, that "the work you do reflects directly upon you, do it right the first time, do it neatly, and be proud to say you did the job"..... It seems to me that today's workers are not like the "old school" workers who took pride in what they did and how it LOOKED when done. All they want is the cash. My FIL had an electrician wire his addition and it looked like a 2 year old did it. Guess what, it passed inspection with flying colors.......The outlets and switch plates were not even level or square with the floor for pete's sake. Sorry if I hurt any contractors feeling's out there but this type of work seems to be the "norm" today.

My father is one of those "old school" electricians (and now electrical inspector) he follows the book to the letter. In fact that has caused quite a few complaints against him by homeowners, because he doesn't let it slide. He actually failed a generator for a school in the town he works in because one thing wasn't right and the mayor called him to gripe because it slowed the project down. His response to the mayor "Have them do it right the first time next time." How he still works in that town is nearly beyond me other than he's REALLY good at his job. HAHAH I'm sure there's a few of you homeowner's that gripe when they fail and inspection, but as upset as I would be I would also be great full that someone was doing their job right and I would feel safer knowing that my house isn't going to burn/fall down around me one day.

[andob45]

You guys are right. There are some contractors out there including electricians that do sub par work, and usually people end up hiring them because they came in with the lowest bid. you get what you pay for and that's true for products and services, but there are just as many electriciands that do quality work, and they are usually a little bit higher than other bids but for a reason.

"Yes, electricity is dangerous but it isn't complicated and it isn't magic.

If you understand what you are doing, you can do a job that is as good or better than a professional would do. "

No it's not Magic, depending on your aptitude and experience it may not be complicated for you.

the key statement is IF you understand what you are doing. if you truly do great, if you think you do and you don't it may be too late in the blink of an eye. I'm all for doing it yourself, but please make sure you really know what you are doing. I could really care less if anyone hires an electrician or not, no skin off my back, But there is a reason they are a licensed proffesional, they have went through the training, and had numerous years of on the job experience and have passed state exams, and to say it is not complicated can be very misleading.

[Mikey_in_NY]

A predictable response. Did you notice the smiley?

Yes, electricity is dangerous but it isn't complicated and it isn't magic.

If you understand what you are doing, you can do a job that is as good or better than a professional would do.

I'm a do it yourself guy, I used to hire professionals but ended up fixing what they did about 50% of the time. When you do your own wiring you take greater care than a guy who is there for the day and never seen again, you oversize things, where it would make your project last longer and be safer.

Yes there are good, honest contractors out there and when I find them I hire them, but I still keep an eye on their work.

Dave

Hey Dave - no offence buddy, but for what it's worth I do kind of agree with you that if you're competent on DIY electrics then it's not rocket science to wire up a hot tub. But just like another poster said it's a big "IF", and IF a person get's it wrong then the consequences will be at best dangerous, and at worst fatal. Another factor to take into consideration is that if there's a pre-existing fault in the house wiring, most DIY'ers are not gonna see it, and will blindly just build upon this problem by adding a hot tub circuit, whereas a licensed electrician will (should) pick up on it.

Personally I believe we should send the message that wiring a hot tub is not a job for a DIY enthusiast (even a competent one), and only a job for a licensed and qualified electrician - but that's just my opinion.

As for crappy contractors, yes, your point is well taken. My only advice there is to go with well established business's and/or recommendations.

[andob45]

A predictable response. Did you notice the smiley?

Yes, electricity is dangerous but it isn't complicated and it isn't magic.

If you understand what you are doing, you can do a job that is as good or better than a professional would do.

I'm a do it yourself guy, I used to hire professionals but ended up fixing what they did about 50% of the time. When you do your own wiring you take greater care than a guy who is there for the day and never seen again, you oversize things, where it would make your project last longer and be safer.

Yes there are good, honest contractors out there and when I find them I hire them, but I still keep an eye on their work.

Dave

Hey Dave - no offence buddy, but for what it's worth I do kind of agree with you that if you're competent on DIY electrics then it's not rocket science to wire up a hot tub. But just like another poster said it's a big "IF", and IF a person get's it wrong then the consequences will be at best dangerous, and at worst fatal. Another factor to take into consideration is that if there's a pre-existing fault in the house wiring, most DIY'ers are not gonna see it, and will blindly just build upon this problem by adding a hot tub circuit, whereas a licensed electrician will (should) pick up on it.

Personally I believe we should send the message that wiring a hot tub is not a job for a DIY enthusiast (even a competent one), and only a job for a licensed and qualified electrician - but that's just my opinion.As for crappy contractors, yes, your point is well taken. My only advice there is to go with well established business's and/or recommendations.

that is an excellent point, or another one would be do you have enough capacity in your existing panel to add a hot tub. I agree with this opinion as well. I think i'll stop beating this horse now i've given more than my two cents.

[Stuart A]

Eventually, or probably, electrical work will only be allowed to be carried out by qualified persons. Gas has for some time now and refrigerant use is getting more regulated, the latter perhaps for slightly different reasons. Afterall these can all be dangerous things.

[Dr. Spa]

Depends on location. California law states that a home owner is allowed to do anything to their property themselves (with permits and inspections).

[Chad M]

Depends on location. California law states that a home owner is allowed to do anything to their property themselves (with permits and inspections).

It's actually that way in most if not all states, they are still required to take out the necessary permits and pass inspections, only glitch is that most homeowner's that do it that way don't even get permits or inspections.

[blindrid]

Another point that I've learned is to check out he mfgr's wiring schematics. Some do things a bit differently and needs to be done correctly. It's when you make some assumptions that comes back and kicks you in the a**.

[Roger]

Eventually, or probably, electrical work will only be allowed to be carried out by qualified persons. Gas has for some time now and refrigerant use is getting more regulated, the latter perhaps for slightly different reasons. Afterall these can all be dangerous things.

With the proper permits and inspections there is nothing on my property I can not do. Gas, electric, water, phone, cable and septic service. Minnesota, gota love it. Quite frankly I could do it without a permit and inspection if I wanted. Just don't let the township catch ya. But I service the township councils presidents tub

[Dnepr Dave]

I did the gas in my house and had it inspected. Heck, whose going to do a better job, the homeowner who is going to live there or some clown you don't know, who hung out a shingle? If you have the skills, it is better to do it yourself, that way you know it's done right!

Dave