Mikey_in_NY

To my horror I recently became aware the lumber base (kickboard) on my 9 year old Sundance Hawthorne had gone rotten to the point where it was basically falling apart. Called Sundance about this who informed me they could not help with a spa this old, but did advise I should replace it as long-term it could affect the structural support as well as let vermin in under the tub. Tub has run 24/7 trouble-free for all 9 years through some very cold winters here in Buffalo, and is used on average about 3 times per week. I don't know if Sundance have moved away from using pressure treated lumber, but if not then they certainly should. Purpose of this post is to inform other owners of my solution (it worked out great for me but do this at your own risk!). Here's what I did... 1. Drain tub, remove cover, cover lift supports/brackets and rear corner surrounds. 2. With the help of my two adult sons pushed rear of tub forward around 3 feet in the concrete pad (3 people was a real struggle, 4 would have been much better). 3. Used a scissor jack to lift front of tub about 10" just to get a better grip underneath. Important - scissor jack placed directly under vertical frame strut. 4. Carefully lift tub onto its back using a LOT of cardboard between concrete pad and back of tub to cushion it. Secured with rope as it had a tendency to fall forward. 5. Used an aerosol spray can to indicate locations of all 4*2 cross members (see photo). 6. Unscrew outer 2*2 rotten kickboards. Cross members are only attached to these, two of them were also going rotten. 7. Visited lumber dealership to purchase replacement pressure-tread lumber, however they had close-out (50% off) sale on composite 4*2 so I went for this. Had to get two 8' lengths cut down center to give me the 4 outer pieces. 8. Drill pilot holes into outer composite 2*2 surrounds and screw to base of tub (over existing plastic sheet). Cut and screw 45 degree corner pieces. 9. Cut cross members to length and screw to 2*2 surrounds using aerosol spray marks for exact locations. 10. Four adults carefully lowered tub back onto concrete pad and back into final location (tip - placed sleeping bags under front end in case weight became too much and we had to drop it last few inches, but in the end not necessary). Total cost: $110 for composite plus $40 stainless deck screws. About 12 hours total labor.

Need a bit more info than that. How many wires are feeding the tubs electrical box - two? three? four?

Might be a dumb question but does the water 'feel' like 88 or 99? i.e. is the display wrong, or the thermometer?

#6 wire is common for a 50A hook-up, however a run of 135 feet is definitely on the long side, so you may(?) need to go to #4 wire. Suggest you speak to a qualified electrician, or wait for a more knowledgeable forum member than myself to advise. Assuming the correct wire is being used there is no advantage to going to a bigger one.

Try Mr.Clean Magic Erasers

I live in Western NY. Paid licensed contractor about $800 for approx 40' run in basement, and 10' (above ground) outside from basement to tub - 60A circuit. $80 of the cost was for town permit (a necessary rip-off). Didn't need new service panel. I had quotes ranging from $650 to $1,800 for EXACTLY the same work, so shop around. Word of caution - as another poster said make sure your contractor is licensed to operate in your town and/or county else you won't get a permit.

You might want to check your local code. From memory I thought there was a maximum distance from the tub to the disconnect (maybe 15 feet?), but I could be wrong. Anyway, you'd be well advised to check with your town.

540 US gallons takes me just over an hour from a garden hose.

Circ pumps are typically hard-wired to run 24/7. I'm assuming your tub has an ozonator also - that being the case it will be connected in-line with the circ pump, which is another reason it needs to run 24/7. The upside of this is that you can reduce the time period of your main pump cycles - if it's just you and your wife I'd begin with maybe 1 hour per day (2 x 30 mins), and closely monitior your water balance.

As SpaGuy said the Sundance uses a regular panel, which most 240V tubs can use. The HS panel is HS only. In the big picture the cost is not significant - probably around $150 including GFCI. Unless things have recently changed Sundance use a 3 wire system - two hot plus ground. Both are good tubs - wet test to decide.

I've had the Sundance Hawthorne (680 series) for 18 months now, and would totally recommend it. My temps get down near zero, but certainly not as low as the ones your talking about. No experience with Arctic, but I believe they're very comparable to Sundance as far as reputation and quality goes, i.e. they're both high-end manufacturers. Be careful when it comes to pump HP. According to the Sundance website the Hartford spec is: "Two 2.5 hp (1 @ 4.5 bhp*, 1 @ 4.8 bhp*)" "* BHP (brake horsepower) is a maximum value measured by the motor manufacturer with no pump installed." I think a true comparison of the two brands is 2*4 BHP for the Arctic, and 1*4.5 BHP plus 1*4.8 BHP for the Sundance. This being said 'real' (constant) pump power is determined by the lower (HP) value, which is probably very similar for both brands. As other posters have said you need to wet test to figure this out for yourself. Good luck!

The summitt seats are FAR from narrow. Those seats are wide enough for the largest of people. Its a very comfortable spa and I would be hard pressed to find a seating arrangement more comfortable than a summitt. Also, as far as the filtration goes, take a look at how big that circulation pump is compared to a wetend on a filtration pump of an Arctic, how much water does it really move when its on ALL the time. The Arctic filtration pump moves much more water at a much quicker rate. There is a reason the circulation pumps that many manufacturers install has to run all day. The Arctic filtration runs longer than four hours a day I might add. Its customizable to your needs. Also, many thermal pane spas DO have to have their heaters run longer to maintain heat, but not Arctics with how well they do insulate. Other thermal panes dont insulate as well, and this has been spoken about on here several times. Also the summitt has a stereo option with the Aquatremor, you might ask the dealer to demonstrate this as its well worth the upgrade. BTW, both Jacuzzi and Arctic are excellent choices for spas. You have narrowed it down well. Slowly filtering the water all day via a circ pump is more efficient, and arguably better for water maintenance, than periodic bursts of rapid filtration for a few hours a day. A circ pump is typically rated at 75 watts, whereas a main pump may be rated at 2,000 watts - not rocket science to figure out which one is cheapest to operate. It will always be more efficient to move a given amount of water (or any other liquid for that matter) slowly over longer periods of time than in quick bursts due to lower frictional losses. As for moving MORE water with a main pump yes, this is true, however if a circ pump moving 'X' amount of water each day is enough to maintain clean, balanced water, then moving 2X or 3X water will achieve absolutely nothing other than pushing water around for no good reason, but more importantly pushing your electric bill up accordingly.

I think you mean Sundance Maxxus.

If you want a 'cheap' sound system Walgreens sell portable battery operated AM/FM radios for $16, which sit just nice on the side of a tub. Not the greatest quality I know, but there again the neighbors probably wouldn't appreciate me having a 'quality' sound system on my tub. And at that price I couldn't care less if it falls in the water.

Same here - I get a ton of snow each winter, have to regularly shovel deck to clear path to hot tub. Like iced says there's nothing better then getting warmed up in the tub, then rolling around in the snow for a few seconds, and getting back in again - amazing tingling sensation! I do wear a woolly hat if it's windy out.

I've no experience with SeaKlear so cannot comment on it, however I do have experience with foaming due to my two teenage kids and their friends. The short answer is there's basically not much you can do about this other than imposing some sort of showering discipline on those getting in the tub - which you're not willing to do. Anti-foam additives help for a half hour or so, but are then basically useless, and with extended use it's just another set of chemicals degredating the water. Scooping the foam off afterwards can help, but again is not a real fix. As you say, unless you can coagulate the soaps/lotions the filters won't do anything for you as they work on mechanical (suspended solids) filtration only. Maybe other forum members have a solution?

Probably best you print off the circuit diagrams and head off down your local Sundance dealer - if they're any good they should be able to help.

Page 66 on the 2010 Optima owners manual describes the various jumper configurations... http://www.sundancespas.com/Communications/InstructionManuals/2010_880_NA_OM_EN.pdf Please be VERY aware that it's not as simple as just replacing your 50A GFCI with a 60A GFCI - the wiring circuit must also meet 60A code. You should consult a licensed electrical contractor before taking things further.

No - the blankets pretty heavy, and doesn't bunch up.

Agree with SimonC. On your next (imminent?) fill take a note of how much Dichlor you need to get up to 30ppm CYA, and use it as a reference for all subsequent fills. In my case (530 gallon tub) I need 7 tablespoons, which I add at a rate of 2 tablespoons per week on a new fill. Once I'm up to 7 TBSP I cease and replace with chlorox. From then on I add just one tablespoon of Dichlor a month as the CYA level does slowly drop. Take plenty of measurements for the first couple of months just to get a handle on how the addition of chemicals affects your water balance. Once you've got a grasp on it you should then only need to take measurements maybe once per week. The Dichlor / chlorox regime works very well, but it does require the addition of chlorox every couple of days even if the tub has not been used (and every day when used), especially if you don't have an ozonator. If you know you're not going to be around for 5 days suggest you shock before leaving, or ask a neighbor to throw some chlorox in whilst you're away. If you're away from home a lot then a Bromine regimen may be the way to go.

And the power cost to run the pump for 10 hours in your case to move the water through the heater too. Your point would be valid IF I had to run the main pump(s) to heat the water, however in my case the 24/7 circ pump pushes water through the heater, whether heat is needed or not, i.e. the main pump(s) play no part in heating the water. The additional cost is therefore zero.

The main advantage I find with a floating thermal blanket is that if it's just me in the tub I leave the blanket on but rolled back a little like a bed sheet. Doing this makes a big difference in maintaining the water temp with the cover open, and almost eliminates the heater kicking in. I have noticed a few $ a month reduction in electric. Ouside temps here do get down to single digits. Bought mine at http://www.rhtubs.com/store/float.htm

I had the same problem with my Sundance when it was only a few weeks old - one or two of the approx 20 lights were out of sync. Dealer came and and fixed it, but same thing happened again only a few weeks later. Since then I've just put up with it, not so difficult as I rarely use the lights anyhow.

Your logic would be fine if it were not for the fact that most (all?) circ pumps draw water in through a filter, thereby eliminating any potential for hair / paper / whatever getting hung up in the impeller.

Calculating how much it costs to get the water up to temp using the hot tubs (electric) heater is very simple... Time x Heater KW rating x Cost/kWh For example, my tub uses a 6 KW heater, and takes about 10 hours to get from 52 deg (straight from the cold faucet) to 102 deg. Which means it uses 60 kWh (10 x 6) of electric to get up to temp. Here in NY a kWh is $0.15, times 60 = $9. Another way to look at it is the heater costs $0.90 per hour to run (or 6 x $0.15). Then there's the cost of the water of course.