Roger Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Not to bring Roger in this but im sure he has seen frozen tubs that the pumps and piping havent burst. I may be wrong. Yes I have seen pumps, heaters and all kinds of things frozen without breaking. especialy in an open ended non pressure system as a hot tub. But........I have seen more broken things from being frozen than unbroken. I won't use the very stupid saying that Jim uses "duhhh it has to do with the laws of physics" I think he thinks that makes him sound smarter, I guess. But a metal pipe sealed on both ends will burst if it freezes if there is no room for expansion, but if you drill a hole in the same metal pipe it may not break if it can let out enough of it's expansion. Theres alot more factors involved than just Jim saying......"its the laws of physics" Most of the time a pump head has enough water sitting in it to crack the housing if it freezes solid. Past that PVC will generaly give enough to cover expansion, but not always. The longer you leave it the more things that will break....... BUT WHATS THE POINT as when it is 10-20 below you would not treat any tub differently as far as protecting it from freezing, as a matter of fact at any temp below freezing you would not treat any tub differently. You want to protect from freezing and facilitate the repair as soon as possible. This hot tub challange sponsored by [Jim] is the stupidest thing I have ever heard!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingolfin Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 There is nothing in this world that can contain the expansion of water, not even diamonds, steel, or titananium. It is "something about the laws of physics." As with most absolute statements, this is wrong. That would suggest that ice has no compressibility which is absolutely wrong. It is true that most pipes and other things cannot handle the pressure. However, this issue gets complicated very quickly due to the fact that water can form different crystalline structures (called phases) under different pressure and temperature conditions. Here is link that discusses more about the properties of water than you probably care to know: http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 .... It is the laws of physics. You have shown yourself, time and time again to have a very weak and grasping understanding of the laws of physics, Jim. Lets start with Infinite R, shall we? You can't promote you product on a complete bastardazation and screwed up premise as that B.S and then come here and expect to spout about physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saskman Posted July 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Good news The duck radio manufacturer is going to factory install a LED lights in all duck radios in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Its not the laws of physics since I have seen many a tub In my 10 years and im pretty sure others have, to where the tub was frozen and nothing blew a part. Why dont ice cube trays blow part when frozen why dont ice packs that are thawed and refrozen multiple times blow apart. Are they defying the laws of physics??? It has to do with the fill of the pipe and the pressure of the water as it expands. If there is no relief then it breaks things. Back in the Civil war time they had a bunch of cannon balls siting around with black powder in them. Black powder becomes very unstable as it sits around for a long time. So, to destroy these dangerous balls of black powder, they drilled a hole carefully and filled them with water. Then plugged the hole. Set the ball out side in the winter and it cracked open. These were steel balls. There is nothing in this world that can contain the expansion of water, not even diamonds, steel, or titananium. It is "something about the laws of physics." I think it would be an interesting test. I wonder what Tong and Rogers have to say about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spamaster101 Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Good news The duck radio manufacturer is going to factory install a LED lights in all duck radios in 2008. And I hear they are doing it for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 I wonder what Tong and Rogers have to say about this? Wow man, give me a hit of whatever Jim is smokin!! Far out!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richs100 Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 I wonder what Tong and Rogers have to say about this? I see that you just couldn't resist the old "Tong and Rogers" trick, huh, Trig. Isn't about time for the dreaded "cone of silence"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saskman Posted July 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 What does this all have to do with my Ducky Radio. Are you all saying that if I get water in my duck and it freezes that no duck can withstand the force of expanding water. SOOOO my duck will explode????? See wouldn't this all be easier if the manufacturer just gave me a radio. Now I'm running the risk of exploding duck radio in my tub. Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 What does this all have to do with my Ducky Radio. Are you all saying that if I get water in my duck and it freezes that no duck can withstand the force of expanding water. SOOOO my duck will explode????? Yes. That's exactly right. It has something to do with something called "physics". That's why there are no real ducks in Colorado. They all exploded last winter. A ducks insualtion factor (D-R) is not infinate. (see Tong and Rogers: Duck Freezing Rates). I heard Jim has developed a Duck Unfreezing Method (D.U.M) where he blows smoke up it's a$$ to keep it from freezing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_The_Jim Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 There is nothing in this world that can contain the expansion of water, not even diamonds, steel, or titananium. It is "something about the laws of physics." As with most absolute statements, this is wrong. That would suggest that ice has no compressibility which is absolutely wrong. It is true that most pipes and other things cannot handle the pressure. However, this issue gets complicated very quickly due to the fact that water can form different crystalline structures (called phases) under different pressure and temperature conditions. Here is link that discusses more about the properties of water than you probably care to know: http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/ There is no known material used in the construction of spas, that can withstand ice without either expanding, distorting bending, or breaking. There has to be a place for the expansion to take place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saskman Posted July 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saskman Posted July 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 In August when the lakes freeze up again for the year I will take my dog team down to Estevan to gey my tub. The train stops there (snow not to thick up there). I hope my pipes don't freeze....it will take me two days to get it home. Wish me luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingolfin Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 There is nothing in this world that can contain the expansion of water, not even diamonds, steel, or titananium. There is no known material used in the construction of spas, that can withstand ice without either expanding, distorting bending, or breaking. There has to be a place for the expansion to take place. These two statements are quite different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 These two statements are quite different. Hey fin? You new to Jim's world? If so....welcome. Everything Jim says is contradicting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saskman Posted July 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 I spoke to a guy in Moose Jaw (near to where I live but a little north of dog river) He says that I get the real Northern Lights so why would I want LEDs. Good point but I still want a radio. The duck only has 5 watts and is mono. Will I void my warranty by putting in one myself. I could even post it on youtube in case the manufacturers want to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spa_repair_guy Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 There is nothing in this world that can contain the expansion of water, not even diamonds, steel, or titananium. There is no known material used in the construction of spas, that can withstand ice without either expanding, distorting bending, or breaking. There has to be a place for the expansion to take place. These two statements are quite different. Post hangover corrections I would imagine srg Doncha just love that D.U.M. comment a few thousand posts ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spa_repair_guy Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 These two statements are quite different. Hey fin? You new to Jim's world? If so....welcome. Everything Jim says is contradicting. Like Gym says: "not it's not yes it is no it's not yes it's not no it is yes it's no it's all in your unnerstanding of injuneering and seance " so sayeth the Jim srg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.P. Roberts Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 I spoke to a guy in Moose Jaw (near to where I live but a little north of dog river) He says that I get the real Northern Lights so why would I want LEDs. Good point but I still want a radio. The duck only has 5 watts and is mono. Will I void my warranty by putting in one myself. I could even post it on youtube in case the manufacturers want to do the same. Each duck is mono, sure. That's why you need at least 5 or 7 for true Ducky Digital surround sound. There are tubs designed to swirl the water in such a way that each duck stays perfectly placed for optimal sound. Of course, such tubs are expensive, since their pipes are made from Adamantium, moonbeams, and the distilled essence of the sound of one hand clapping. I'd like to point out I've lived in snowy Ohio for decades, and never lost power for more than a few hours. So, my decision as to which hot tub to purchase will not depend in any way on which one appears to be Freeze Proof. I have also never had a wooden structure that was eaten by beavers, so I will not need to buy a tub that's Beaver Proof. I have also never had anything busted open by Geraldo Rivera in search of Al Capone's Tomb, so I will not buy a tub that's Geraldo Rivera Proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 I could even post it on youtube in case the manufacturers want to do the same. I doubt the manufacturers want to post theirs on youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saskman Posted July 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Ok all fun aside......Check out the new tubs on Costco.ca. I think this makes my point. I think the industry need to wake up and smell the coffee here....and fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Sask, is the Pilates H20 what your talking about and on P&S.com they are touting it as a $14,999 spa but Costco can sell it for $7,999 Cdn Pilates H2O XP1 sets itself apart with its ultimate massage seats. You can customize 18 programmable hydrotherapy sequence profiles offering a variety of specific massaging options. Four rows of jets pulsate based on the location, intensity and longevity that you select. Enjoy a moderate repeating massage that starts from your neck and shoulders, working down your back and into your legs, or an intense upper and lower lumbar specific pulsating massage. This type of healing power is not available in any other conventional spa. Pilates H2O is your source for quality home spa hydrotherapy. Features: Seats 7 people 92 chrome jets: 32 directional typhoon jets 14 rotational typhoon jets 13 cluster and massage jets 33 dual massage/seat sequencer jets 5-pump system: 2 x 160 GPM pumps 1 x 220 GPM pump 1 x 120 CFM blower 1 x 24-hour 30 GPM circulation pump Sani-clean CD ozone generator 2 massage seats 6 removable massage balls Aromatherapy Dual pop-up waterfall Programmable multi-colour LED spa lighting Programmable stereo/CD player with integrated speaker system Subwoofer Wireless watertight remote control for stereo and all spa functions European filtration 2 x 4.6 sq. m (50 sq. ft.) Power depot (full diagnostics) Full 0.64 cm ( 0.25‑in.) ABS bottom tray Durable 0.96 cm (0.375‑in.) cabinet Multi-layered precision-lock insulation package 24/7 after sales care Included: 12.7 cm (5‑in.) thick tapered cover Startup chemical kit Specifications: Dimensions (L x W x H): 2.34 m x 2.34 m x 0.91 m (7 ft. 8 in. x 7 ft. 8 in. x 3 ft.) Water capacity: 1325 L (350 USG) Dry weight: 454 kg (1000 lb.) Filled weight: 1776 kg (3916 lb.) Warranty: 5-year warranty against cracking, blistering, fading or delaminating of the shell surface 2-year warranty for all mechanical and solid-state components 2-year warranty for authorized labour beginning on the date of purchase Warranties for other components: the spa cover, light bulb, light lenses, fuses, headrests, cabinet finish and filters are warranted to be free of defects in workmanship and materials at the time of delivery. I beleive someone posted on either here or wtbht that they bought one and it wasnt it wall hyped to be. I think gulfcoast makes them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saskman Posted July 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Am I seeing this right are there a few brand name tubs in there. I was mostly interested in the setup. It clearly a gecko contol and a nice clean setup. I'm not into the massage thingy but there are uping the options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richs100 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 It was 25 below when the guy went on a trip. If it was 25 below, I would have went on a trip too. To Miami. Smart guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 I used to show this movie of this spa in the showroom to tell the full foam story to spa shoppers. It was pretty clear as a bell that full foam is not a good idea. The only reason for full foam is to cut manufacturing costs. That is all. I've seen thermaly closed spas frozen also, about a 50/50 mix here. Must be different in Colorado where it freezes slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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