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D.P. Roberts

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About D.P. Roberts

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    Hot Tub Aficionado

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  1. 2009 Sundance Optima Wrist Jets

    Fetzervalve - just prepare those jets with some 3 in 1 oil and some gauze pads. And you're gonna need about 10 quarts of antifreeze, preferably Prestone. No, make that Quaker state.
  2. How Much Mark Up Is Their On Spas?

    This problem could be solved a lot more easily, and with less arguing. The vast majority of spa shoppers on this site are here to get feedback on a specific manufacturer, model, or dealer - and a specific price. However, once they obtain the information they're looking for, they disappear, never to be heard from again. If they do come back, they usually state vague information - they don't want to say the name of the dealer, or simply say they "feel they got a good price." I'm not sure why they do this - perhaps they're afraid that they didn't get a good deal after all, or that they somehow still want to keep their information private / anonymous? This board could be an incredibly powerful negotiating tool if consumers would be willing to give feedback on their purchases. When you buy a tub, give the name of the dealer, the model you purchased, and the price you paid (including delivery, accessories, or whatever). Sure, prices will vary from one dealer to the next, for a variety of reasons. However, it would at least give consumers a real starting point based on real sales numbers, instead of these rather theoretical observations about margins. When I go to buy a car (or an appliance, or whatever), I don't research the dealer's margins, or the manufacturer's margins. I go to the car sites and find out what the car has actually been selling for. Then, when I go to a dealer, I don't have to haggle - I just explain to the dealer that his price is too high, and give the range based on the research I've done. If he can't give me a price in that range, I walk out.
  3. How Much Mark Up Is Their On Spas?

    This argument reminds me of the ones about the Hydro Spas from a few years ago, or the H20 spas from a few years before that, or even the Keys Backyard spas that Lowe's and Home Depot used to sell 10 years ago. I'll bet you could resurrect those old threads, and the arguments there would be exactly the same. "Box box" tubs are sold at a lower cost and lower margin. They may or may not be as "good" as the national brands, but the track record from the big box stores says that today's brand won't be around tomorrow. Know what you're getting yourself into. National brands cost more. For some people, dealer support, manufacturer longevity, and the ability to try out the spa before you buy it are worth the extra price. For some people, that sort of stuff isn't worth paying for. Is anyone really arguing that mom'n'pop local dealers are as cost-efficient as a big box store? Is anyone else really arguing that Strong spas is just as likely to be around in 10 years as Watkins or Jacuzzi, just because they're being sold at Costco? We're now arguing about the exact amount of Costco's margin? Is any of this minutiae really helpful? Some people think wet testing and dealer support are important; if you're one of those people, buy the national brand. If those sorts of things aren't important to you, buy whatever brand Costco is selling today. End of story.
  4. Pulled The Trigger On A Hs Grandee.....

    When you two were having your "my place is colder than your place" discussion, I checked the average temperatures for Duluth & Regina (I know temperatures will vary across the province, but it made for an easier comparison). Regina was about 8 deg. F colder in average low temperatures each month. Canada wins! Or loses, depending on your point of view. For those of you who are Grandee fans: 1) Do you like the foot jets? It looks like it only has two, and they don't look well placed (assuming you're sitting in one of the corner seats with the Moto-Massage). 2) Do you like the "bullet jets" (the 26 "directional precision jets" like the ones right above the Moto-Massagers & the other corner seat). I've always felt that bullet jets don't help much, and make my skin itchy after a while. 26 of the 39 jets in the spa are bullet jets, and that concerns me.
  5. So, Roger, if I may ask - what are your top 3?
  6. 12 grand Canadian? I would have thought the Grandee was 12 grand US. Does anyone have a price on a Grandee in the US?
  7. You do sound happy with your tub, and that's great. I had never heard of H20 before reading this thread, so I did some searching, & one of the first results I found was for a thread on this forum from three months ago: You then said this: So overall - especially considering the fact that you're now having a problem with your tub's heater- it sounds like you've not had a great experience with H20. I think most people who buy a "name brand" tub would be really upset if they spent $10-$15,000 only to find that they don't get "any beneficial massage" and are "just plain out not satisfied". People who spend less, on the other hand, are often less satisfied (as you appear to be) - but they did save thousands of dollars. All I'm trying to say is that you get what you pay for. There doesn't seem to be a way to get name-brand quality for a fraction of the price. It may be acceptable for you, and it may be a compromise worth making. I just think that most people who buy a "discount" tub and think that they're going to get the same experience as a "name brand" end up being disappointed.
  8. Personally, I'm already happy with the hot tub I've got, so I'm just here for entertainment purposes. I love it when spa salespeople turn on the heat - it's like watching Billy Mays, but without the crack! (probably!) Throw in that crazy guy from Colorado, and I'm in haven - er, heaven!
  9. Personally, I wouldn't care where a tub is made. What matters is how well the tub is built, and how well it was designed/engineered. Where a particular engineer lives isn't nearly as important as whether he/she is a good engineer. I'm not trying to say that Arctic is good or bad. I'm just saying that the location of the factory & its employees, at least from a quality standpoint, is irrelevant. If you had to buy snow tires, would you buy ones designed by an engineer in Malaysia or a kid at McDonald's in Finland? If you had to buy a beach umbrella, would you buy one made by an engineer in Canada or a beach bum in Tahiti? In both cases, you'd go with the well-engineered one, right?
  10. However, water level is critical. I know it sounds like I'm playing devil's advocate here, but I'd really like to hear the following: A ) Doesn't the water get "stale" when the filter's not running? B ) Isn't cycling on and off bad for the pump? C ) Does it use more or less energy than a small circ pump running 24/7? D ) Wouldn't the ozone be running less often than in a 24/7 circ pump? I'm really not trying to pick on Marquis here, I'm just curious about this. I do see how the "vortex" thing may work, but I like the weir gate design in other spas too - there's an inevitable backflow when the filter pump shuts off, and a weir gate can trap all those "floaties" that would otherwise go back in the spa. On the other hand, I really like how the Marquis filter doesn't take up too much room (especially in a valuable corner seat). I also think the waterfall over the filter visually appealing - I generally don't like water features (most look like they came straight out of a 1970's custom van), but I think Marquis's design is very elegant.
  11. Whats With The Filter Placement In Corners?

    I don't understand hot tubs that have filters in the corner seats. I REALLY don't understand hot tubs that don't have enough foot jets. You see, if you have even two "good" seats, that would imply two people sitting in them. People, for the most part, have two feet each. Thus, two good seats would require four good foot jets. If you want four "good" seats (i.e. lounges or captain's chairs), you would need EIGHT good foot jets. And yet some manufacturers only put one or two foot jets in the whole spa. If I had to guess, I would say that most people who get sore feet are ON their feet all day. This implies manual labor. Desk jockeys, on the other hand, don't get sore feet, but get sore shoulders from being hunched over a computer all day. People who sit at desks generally make more money and can afford hot tubs, while many manual laborers cannot. I think it's unfair and biased! Equal treat for equal feet!
  12. Current Price On Artesian Antigua

    Was that dealer's retail prices, or was there tax involved? I'm curious as to how this would compare with US prices.
  13. Jacuzzi Financial Status

    I've been wondering about that for several years - why certain brands show up on forums, and others don't. Also, there seem to be "running trends" - one manufacturer shows up for a while, and then others run for a while. I have two theories on this: 1) It's random. Our "sample size" on this forum is too small to accurately reflect the thousands upon thousands of spas that are sold every year. 2) Search engines. The average consumer does not know the names of any spa websites. Instead, they Google. so, if you're looking for "Jacuzzi spa prices" or "Sundance Spa repair" right now, chances are you're going to get some results for this particular forum instead of the other spa forums, which have different spa threads going now. When the search results turn up threads on this forum, they end up posting here too. For example, Sundance does have a lot of threads going here right now, but other times it's other brands. The same is true for other spa web sites - if you look at all the other spa forums right now, they have different brands being researched. As for spa quality, I don't think Sundance is necessarily any better or worse than Jacuzzi, when considering equivalent lines. However, I must admit that I'm biased, as I've been a happy Sundance owner for many years. On the other hand, if you look at the currrent threads about Sundance repairs on this forum, you'll see that many of these tubs are quite old (most seem to be in the 8-10 year range). I would think that most spas (like most cars, appliances, etc.) in that age range might need a few repairs now and again. My own Sundance tub is 9 or 10 years old now - it had a problem with one of the jets leaking a few years ago, but I got it fixed and it's been fine since. I would think that experience is somewhat typical for this level of spa.
  14. Everybody who is shopping for a hot tub should read this thread! It just shows you that no matter what you "know" about the manufacturing, quality, and price of a hot tub, you don't know anything about the jet pressure, the seat comfort, and the fact that some seats (even in high end spas) are uncomfortable to some people but soothing to others. The actual experience of wet testing makes ALL the difference. Keep going, and good luck!