Spa Shopping

[dasher]

My wife and I have been planning to buy a hot tub for ourselves for Christmas, and I have to say the whole process is turning me off the idea. What is it with an industry that you go in a store, no prices! One place (hotspring) huge sign Truckload sale, they had 1 new spa in the showroom and showed me the MSRP and quoted me that as a price; nice sale! Year end sales, buy now or you will loose this great deal. But is it a deal, no one knows because what are the real prices!!!! It's better buying a used car!

I am down to looking at 2 right now and I will post the deals so you can tell me what you think....

Jacuzzi J-355 Cover, Lifter, Steps, Starter Chem and delivery, no ozone $8799.00

Sundance Cameo, Cover, lifter, steps, starter Chem, delivery, ozone system $9995.00

I know that Jacuzzi is the mid line and the Sundance is top line but I can't see paying jacuzzi more to have the waterfall a bit higher and different lights.

It's just sad that the whole process has me fustrated and my wife turned off by the whole idea of getting a spa.

Feel free to give me any imput and ideas, If I don't decide by next weekend I am gonna throw in the towel and wait for the spring home show to revisit the idea.

Thanks,

Dasher, Atlanta, GA

[Zirgalmnod]

No offense, but I think you are in the wrong mood to buy a luxury product that talk to your senses. My suggestion is that you wait until you are up to it, with your present attitude chances are you go wrong. Buying a Hot Tub should be a lustful enterprise, not annoying hard work (in my opinion anyway).

Z

[dasher]

That is the point, the product is a luxury product, the sales experience is not. They bash each others products, tell you what they think you want to hear but in the end provide no real useful inforation and pricing, hope for the best they may be taking you for a real ride. They have taken the experience of buying it and made it on par with bag fees at the airport and shopping for used cars with the way they sell them. Keep in mind this is my opinion of spa shopping from the two best dealers I have found their are others I won't even consider dealing with. I actually like both tubs, it's not the SPA it's the process. We wet tested both this weekend and I have things I like and dislike about each.

Sundance: +Great jets, lounger is a bit longer then in the Jacuzzi J-355 I'm tall so I feel jamed into the Jacuzzi lounger -air system, cold air for the legs in the lounger and it's loud

Jacuzzi +overall look and finish seems a bit more upscale then the sundance -Smaller spa, midgrade not top line, are the jets that much better to make up for the fact that I like the Sundance 880 jets better? No ozone system.

As to the ozone system, The jacuzzi offered it for an additional $300 but said that you can do the same with mineral and bromide system, the other dealer said bromine can destroy jets and the cover over time. It's not that I don't want a spa I just don't have the answers and am not sure who to trust.

Dasher

[Fatlip]

Take your time. It took me 7 months of research and testing, you will be glad you did this. Read ,read and read some more and learn all you can before even going to look at spas. You will still be uneasy about some things, but you will come off as interested as a true spa buyer and not a spur of the moment person. Also I never said anything about any other competitors product when looking and dealing with sales people, people tend to get all uptight and not stay focused on the spa at hand. The info on this sight will help you the most in learning and buying the spa. I bet I have read posts at least 200 hrs, lol. With all this said I bought the Hotsprings Jetsetter and am total satisfied with the whole experience from beginning to end. Water issues all can be fixed with info here on this sight, you just have to do the time needed to learn and then its easy as riding a bike. Can it be frustrating, yes if you let it, but its up to you to do the home work and make the passing grade.

By the way, this has probably been one of my best purchases in my life outside of a house, because of a quality spa and the therapy it has been on my aching body. I have felt like a 20 year old from using the spa.

Once again read, read and take your time and it will be a great experience.

Also im glad I dident get a low end, priced spa. The quality and efficiency of the Hotsprings spa is what I was after.

Good luck

Rick

[Mikey_in_NY]

That is the point, the product is a luxury product, the sales experience is not. They bash each others products, tell you what they think you want to hear but in the end provide no real useful inforation and pricing, hope for the best they may be taking you for a real ride. They have taken the experience of buying it and made it on par with bag fees at the airport and shopping for used cars with the way they sell them. Keep in mind this is my opinion of spa shopping from the two best dealers I have found their are others I won't even consider dealing with. I actually like both tubs, it's not the SPA it's the process. We wet tested both this weekend and I have things I like and dislike about each.

Sundance: +Great jets, lounger is a bit longer then in the Jacuzzi J-355 I'm tall so I feel jamed into the Jacuzzi lounger -air system, cold air for the legs in the lounger and it's loud

Jacuzzi +overall look and finish seems a bit more upscale then the sundance -Smaller spa, midgrade not top line, are the jets that much better to make up for the fact that I like the Sundance 880 jets better? No ozone system.

As to the ozone system, The jacuzzi offered it for an additional $300 but said that you can do the same with mineral and bromide system, the other dealer said bromine can destroy jets and the cover over time. It's not that I don't want a spa I just don't have the answers and am not sure who to trust.

Dasher

I wouldn't worry about missing a 'great deal' - from what I can see these 'great deals' run pretty much year-round.

I'm sceptical over the Jacuzzi dealers comment that a mineral/bromide system can do the same thing as an ozonator - hmmm, I think not.

I totally agree with your frustration over dealers not posting the 'real' price on their tubs - this is just smoke and mirrors at best, and complete BS at worst. If it helps I found the final (walk out of the dealer) price to be around 60% of the posted price. Why it has to be so is a total mystery to me, and this type of behavior can only help the Costco's of this world who have fully transparent pricing.

[dasher]

Update on the Spa shopping.

Wet tested the Jacuzzi J-355 and Sundance Optima and Chelsee.

Jacuzzi: A little quieter then the Sundance or a lot quieter then the Sundance with the air system on. The lounge seat was to short for me my feet were over the foot jets and not comfortable. Overall good jets, not great but not bad at all.

Due to the short lounger we now have a quote on a J-375 but the dealer does not have it in stock.

Sundance: We liked the lounger in the optima but the Spa is way to big for the 2 of us. We didn't like the rased foot thing in the base of the Chelsee it made us both feel like our legs were up to our chest. So the Chelsee is out we are now looking at a Cameo but the dealer doesn't have one to wet test, the good news is I found out 2 different family members have Sundance Cameo spas so when I am visiting realitives for Christmas gonna do a true wet test! We really liked the jets in the Sundance, Lots of power and well positioned from the 2 we did wet test. The only possible negative about the Sundance is the Air system, it's loud and seems to be blowing in cold air, hate to try it outside in January when I am visiting relatives in Nebraska.

Current quotes now are $9995 for the Sundance Cameo and $10,049 for the Jacuzzi J-375.

Two other tubs we are going to look at yet are the Hotspring and D1 but in my area I have concerns about both dealers, one has closed all his showrooms and has 1 spa set up in his warehouse entry room. The other just has mixed feedback about service after the sale.

I will post when more of my spa adventure continues...

In the mean time does anyone have any feedback for me on the air system on the Sundance tubs, Loud, cold ect. Is it worth it? Good or bad feedback is appreciated, I want all the information I can get.

Thanks again for the great information.

Dasher

[Dano]

wet test artic then decide,

[bart6453]

Update on the Spa shopping.

Wet tested the Jacuzzi J-355 and Sundance Optima and Chelsee.

Jacuzzi: A little quieter then the Sundance or a lot quieter then the Sundance with the air system on. The lounge seat was to short for me my feet were over the foot jets and not comfortable. Overall good jets, not great but not bad at all.

Due to the short lounger we now have a quote on a J-375 but the dealer does not have it in stock.

Sundance: We liked the lounger in the optima but the Spa is way to big for the 2 of us. We didn't like the rased foot thing in the base of the Chelsee it made us both feel like our legs were up to our chest. So the Chelsee is out we are now looking at a Cameo but the dealer doesn't have one to wet test, the good news is I found out 2 different family members have Sundance Cameo spas so when I am visiting realitives for Christmas gonna do a true wet test! We really liked the jets in the Sundance, Lots of power and well positioned from the 2 we did wet test. The only possible negative about the Sundance is the Air system, it's loud and seems to be blowing in cold air, hate to try it outside in January when I am visiting relatives in Nebraska.

Current quotes now are $9995 for the Sundance Cameo and $10,049 for the Jacuzzi J-375.

Two other tubs we are going to look at yet are the Hotspring and D1 but in my area I have concerns about both dealers, one has closed all his showrooms and has 1 spa set up in his warehouse entry room. The other just has mixed feedback about service after the sale.

I will post when more of my spa adventure continues...

In the mean time does anyone have any feedback for me on the air system on the Sundance tubs, Loud, cold ect. Is it worth it? Good or bad feedback is appreciated, I want all the information I can get.

Thanks again for the great information.

Dasher

The industry as a whole is lacking real integrity. The problem is the dealers....or what they call dealers.

The manufacturers allow any jackass to sell their products, and that makes for lousy dealers.

Not all dealers are bad, many are good. Some are just misguided...some are downright dishonest.

I would find a dealer that you like, one that does not exhibit their insecurities about their product by bashing everyone else.

I think the hot tub industry would do itself well by taking a cue from the automobile manufacturers and forcing dealerships to be honest. The only way to do that is to be restrictive with whom you do business with (as a manufacturer) and to educate those that you do choose.

I come from a strong sales background and can tell you that most of the crap you have to deal with in the hot tub industry is because the salesperson sucks. He lies...and then the boss does not want to throw him under the bus, so he lies...and then the service guy has to agree with the boss so he says the customer screwed it up...and it just goes on.

Bottom line...FIND A GOOD DEALER AND THE REST WILL FOLLOW.

[DK117]

Update on the Spa shopping.

Wet tested the Jacuzzi J-355 and Sundance Optima and Chelsee.

Jacuzzi: A little quieter then the Sundance or a lot quieter then the Sundance with the air system on. The lounge seat was to short for me my feet were over the foot jets and not comfortable. Overall good jets, not great but not bad at all.

Due to the short lounger we now have a quote on a J-375 but the dealer does not have it in stock.

Sundance: We liked the lounger in the optima but the Spa is way to big for the 2 of us. We didn't like the rased foot thing in the base of the Chelsee it made us both feel like our legs were up to our chest. So the Chelsee is out we are now looking at a Cameo but the dealer doesn't have one to wet test, the good news is I found out 2 different family members have Sundance Cameo spas so when I am visiting realitives for Christmas gonna do a true wet test! We really liked the jets in the Sundance, Lots of power and well positioned from the 2 we did wet test. The only possible negative about the Sundance is the Air system, it's loud and seems to be blowing in cold air, hate to try it outside in January when I am visiting relatives in Nebraska.

Current quotes now are $9995 for the Sundance Cameo and $10,049 for the Jacuzzi J-375.

Two other tubs we are going to look at yet are the Hotspring and D1 but in my area I have concerns about both dealers, one has closed all his showrooms and has 1 spa set up in his warehouse entry room. The other just has mixed feedback about service after the sale.

I will post when more of my spa adventure continues...

In the mean time does anyone have any feedback for me on the air system on the Sundance tubs, Loud, cold ect. Is it worth it? Good or bad feedback is appreciated, I want all the information I can get.

Thanks again for the great information.

Dasher

The industry as a whole is lacking real integrity. The problem is the dealers....or what they call dealers.

The manufacturers allow any jackass to sell their products, and that makes for lousy dealers.

Not all dealers are bad, many are good. Some are just misguided...some are downright dishonest.

I would find a dealer that you like, one that does not exhibit their insecurities about their product by bashing everyone else.

I think the hot tub industry would do itself well by taking a cue from the automobile manufacturers and forcing dealerships to be honest. The only way to do that is to be restrictive with whom you do business with (as a manufacturer) and to educate those that you do choose.

I come from a strong sales background and can tell you that most of the crap you have to deal with in the hot tub industry is because the salesperson sucks. He lies...and then the boss does not want to throw him under the bus, so he lies...and then the service guy has to agree with the boss so he says the customer screwed it up...and it just goes on.

Bottom line...FIND A GOOD DEALER AND THE REST WILL FOLLOW.

The dealer thing really turned me off. I'm on record as owning a Strong spa from Costco. They've provided excellent post sale customer service. And guess what, my local spa dealership http://mortonsstoves.com/ does free water tests (I think everyone does) and are happy to help me with my 2 month old tub. Shopping for a tub sux. Costco makes it easy, and dealers who sell chemicals and expertise will be happy to have you as a lifelong service customer. I've probably spent $100 on chemicals so far and will use them for needed service. It's a win/win, and I never had to deal with a sales person. I was in sales for 12 years and the tub sales teams I spoke with were embarrassing ie a joke. Used car dealers or whatever you want to call them. I hope you find a good dealer in your area, I didn't.

DK117

[hottubdan]

Update on the Spa shopping.

Wet tested the Jacuzzi J-355 and Sundance Optima and Chelsee.

Jacuzzi: A little quieter then the Sundance or a lot quieter then the Sundance with the air system on. The lounge seat was to short for me my feet were over the foot jets and not comfortable. Overall good jets, not great but not bad at all.

Due to the short lounger we now have a quote on a J-375 but the dealer does not have it in stock.

Sundance: We liked the lounger in the optima but the Spa is way to big for the 2 of us. We didn't like the rased foot thing in the base of the Chelsee it made us both feel like our legs were up to our chest. So the Chelsee is out we are now looking at a Cameo but the dealer doesn't have one to wet test, the good news is I found out 2 different family members have Sundance Cameo spas so when I am visiting realitives for Christmas gonna do a true wet test! We really liked the jets in the Sundance, Lots of power and well positioned from the 2 we did wet test. The only possible negative about the Sundance is the Air system, it's loud and seems to be blowing in cold air, hate to try it outside in January when I am visiting relatives in Nebraska.

Current quotes now are $9995 for the Sundance Cameo and $10,049 for the Jacuzzi J-375.

Two other tubs we are going to look at yet are the Hotspring and D1 but in my area I have concerns about both dealers, one has closed all his showrooms and has 1 spa set up in his warehouse entry room. The other just has mixed feedback about service after the sale.

I will post when more of my spa adventure continues...

In the mean time does anyone have any feedback for me on the air system on the Sundance tubs, Loud, cold ect. Is it worth it? Good or bad feedback is appreciated, I want all the information I can get.

Thanks again for the great information.

Dasher

Several things:

It's to bad you have had such a negative experience shopping for a spa. It should be fun. Dealers who bash the competition are a bad mark on the industry.

As a manufacturer, Hot Spring is as strong or stronger than anyone in the industry. I totally understand your concerns about the dealer as you describe it. However, if you get a Hot Spring, the manufacturer will make sure you are taken care of. Find an Envoy and a sovereign to wet test.

I am surprised the Jacuzzi is quoted higher than the Sundance.

The air jets you describe are pretty useless. However, if you get the Sundance you get the system. You don't have to use it.

[fabio_22]

Don't have enough time to get into this properly... what I will say is that I bought a J-355 last month with a Covermate III and a chemical startup kit for $6800 delivered.

I attended the Oregon State where they had every possible spa you could imagine including Jacuzzi. They (different dealer) had their J-355 floor model (not at the fair but back in their store) with Ozone, Music package, Covermate III and steps for $6300 delivered. I had already ordered mine.... so I had to pass.

I was going to avoid the J-355 due to the shorter lounger myself... but knowing that I would be floating a bit... went with it and it's fine for me. I'm 5-11.

Bottom line... your Jacuzzi dealer is asking way to much.

[Roger]

Shopping for a tub sux. Costco makes it easy, and dealers who sell chemicals and expertise will be happy to have you as a lifelong service customer. DK117

I don't know how anyone could say Costco makes it easy!! I guess as long as you could care less how comfortable it is!!

[Cavalier]

Sundance - The air jets bring in outside air and are always cool at startup..

Shopping for a tub sux. Costco makes it easy, and dealers who sell chemicals and expertise will be happy to have you as a lifelong service customer. DK117

I don't know how anyone could say Costco makes it easy!! I guess as long as you could care less how comfortable it is!!

[idhottub]

Shopping for a tub sux. Costco makes it easy, and dealers who sell chemicals and expertise will be happy to have you as a lifelong service customer. DK117

I don't know how anyone could say Costco makes it easy!! I guess as long as you could care less how comfortable it is!!

You don't know how ?? Like this, the Costco buying experience was very easy for me and the tub (Strong) is very comfortable, by the way that is IMO. I also have a very good dealer that is happy to help with the chemicals.

[DK117]

Shopping for a tub sux. Costco makes it easy, and dealers who sell chemicals and expertise will be happy to have you as a lifelong service customer. DK117

I don't know how anyone could say Costco makes it easy!! I guess as long as you could care less how comfortable it is!!

You don't know how ?? Like this, the Costco buying experience was very easy for me and the tub (Strong) is very comfortable, by the way that is IMO. I also have a very good dealer that is happy to help with the chemicals.

Roger, no question, I did not wet test. You're correct. I didn't wet test any tubs, and while I find the Strong to be comfortable, that was not the point of the thread. The sales/purchase process could not have been easier. I stand by that statement, but I suppose it's just my opinion.

DK117

[kaseykent]

It seems to be a common topic amongst this forum, if the dealer stinks, the whole experience is not what you'd hope it to be. I have been in the industry for a little over two years and I hate that we are often compared to used car salesman; I hate that many dealers bash other dealers and their brands. That is something that I have worked hard never to be a part of and people have taken notice and commented on the fact that we/I do not participate in that kind of thing. We have also found success in posting our pricing on each spa, which alleviates a lot of the initial concerns about trust. It's going to take a big group effort to change the consumer outlook on the industry, but it is something that needs to happen. I hope this post doesn't come off as preachy or anything, I just want readers to know that we, in the hot tub industry, are aware of these problems and concerns from consumers and I think the good people who care enough to read and post in these types of forums are the ones who get it, they are the cream of the crop and the ones who can change the industry for the better.

As for this post, I think if you find a dealer that you like and are comfortable with, test out the spa and make a decision.

[Eric W.]

When we bought our hot tub it wasn't this stressful. The one store where we started looking had prices on all of the tubs, but the sales staff was more interested in talking to each other and helping people buy pool toys. They couldn't provide me with a brochure on any of their hot tubs, referring me to their website with basic information. The next store also had all of their hot tubs clearly marked with price, as there was some kind of sale. I started looking at the cal-spa they had on display, and in a few minutes the store manager took over for the salesman that started with me. I asked about Sundance and he showed me the Optima. He was very knowledgeable about the product and the price was within a budget I had in mind. I didn't pay the lowest price, but not the highest either. To their credit, when I needed service on the lights the service tech was great.

FWIW, the price on the Cameo seems to be good.

[JerimiahR]

Shopping for a tub sux. Costco makes it easy, and dealers who sell chemicals and expertise will be happy to have you as a lifelong service customer. DK117

I don't know how anyone could say Costco makes it easy!! I guess as long as you could care less how comfortable it is!!

I guess it's all about perspective & expectations Roger. We have Costco employees buy hot tubs from us, rather than from Costco. Costco as a company makes the "buying" process simple, but you do your own install. If a person assumes that's normal (or doesn't mind doing it themselves) then I suppose it is easy. *shrugs*

As a dealer, we coordinate it all. All the customer does is shop, and sign the dotted line. But like I said, it's all about perception, expectations, etc.

I love shopping at Costco for lots of things. But there are certain things I wouldn't buy there (and not because of Costco).

[NewB@Spa]

I just went through the process myself this past fall. Selected a Hawkeye Venus (5-6 person, no lounge). I felt a bit daunted at first also - but then I boiled it down to what MY requirements were. I agree most hot tub places are snake oil salesman...I almost went with the internet/wholesale route, but in the end opted for local, delivered and setup for ~5,900. Only bad thing is I think they got me on a weekly chem regimine that is causing me issues, but I think Nitro and the gang are going to help me down a happy path. I opted for no lounger because everyone told me that you float too much

[JerimiahR]

I opted for no lounger because everyone told me that you float too much

This depends on body type, and in some cases gender. My experience has been that men sink more (we're hard headed ya know). Women on the other hand, tend to be the ones that float more. Especially small women (short, thin). That's been my experience anyhow.

Some folks can use a lounge and really enjoy it. Others float a bit and aren't as comfortable. Just have to try one and see for yourself.

[Voice]

I just have to get on the record to say that all you complainers are absolutely annoying...If we put prices on every spa we would be making it too easy for our competition to source out our pricing and either beat it or be right in line with it....We are not in business to make our competitions business easier.....Ever try walking into a home depot with a camera? do it and see how friendly they are with you.....It is much harder to price shop a big box store because you have so many products in one store, you cant go around with a pad of paper and write down every price.. We also put the MSRP's on our spa for this reason as well... If we do get prioce shopped, it is going to be the wrong price and our competition's price will not be in line with ours...

Lastly, all you Costco tub owners who love going to your local PROFESSIONAL spa dealer for free water tests and information to teach you how to use your new tub, that no one at costco knows anything about. Let me be the first to tell you, this is going to stop!!!!!! That's right.....soon all professional hot tub companies will be charging customers who do not buy a spa from them or chemicals at the time of the test for water tests.....You expect us to stay in business while not supporting us and want to continue to use our free service??? waste our time as you know nothing about your spa, while I could be losing a customer up front that is looking at spas?? wake up and smell the coffee folks....this is going to change, and I can say in my city we have been working closely with all hot tub professionals to see this through..

You want the world for nothing....well no more

and over the past 3 years all Costco's hot tub company's have gone out of business....who's there to help you now? that's right

so unless you know anything at all about marketing and or a retail industry, quit complaining and suck it up

nuff said

[bart6453]

I just have to get on the record to say that all you complainers are absolutely annoying...If we put prices on every spa we would be making it too easy for our competition to source out our pricing and either beat it or be right in line with it....We are not in business to make our competitions business easier.....Ever try walking into a home depot with a camera? do it and see how friendly they are with you.....It is much harder to price shop a big box store because you have so many products in one store, you cant go around with a pad of paper and write down every price.. We also put the MSRP's on our spa for this reason as well... If we do get prioce shopped, it is going to be the wrong price and our competition's price will not be in line with ours...

Lastly, all you Costco tub owners who love going to your local PROFESSIONAL spa dealer for free water tests and information to teach you how to use your new tub, that no one at costco knows anything about. Let me be the first to tell you, this is going to stop!!!!!! That's right.....soon all professional hot tub companies will be charging customers who do not buy a spa from them or chemicals at the time of the test for water tests.....You expect us to stay in business while not supporting us and want to continue to use our free service??? waste our time as you know nothing about your spa, while I could be losing a customer up front that is looking at spas?? wake up and smell the coffee folks....this is going to change, and I can say in my city we have been working closely with all hot tub professionals to see this through..

You want the world for nothing....well no more

and over the past 3 years all Costco's hot tub company's have gone out of business....who's there to help you now? that's right

so unless you know anything at all about marketing and or a retail industry, quit complaining and suck it up

nuff said

Your anger and attitude exemplifies the problem with hot tub dealers.

Instead of positively reinforcing your current customers who may or may not have purchased a tub from you by giving them good service and good advice; no matter the circumstance...you are doing the exact opposite.

You are punishing those who currently do not do business with you; and when they do decide to try to get a handle on your level of service, you sucker punch them with frivolous charges and a miss pissy pants attitude.

The minute you begin to externalize your business problems is the first minute of your eleventh hour. Good luck and God Speed, cause you are going to need it with an attitude like that.

I purchased my tub second hand, the dealer that services the warranty (Jacuzzi dealer) has the same you are gonna pay for this and that attitude. The dealer that I get my chemicals and advice and aftermarket parts from (Hot Springs), has never asked any questions, never given me any grief and always been friendly. Needless to say...I don't care if Jacuzzi's are half price (and for the record I love my Jacuzzi), I will be buying a Hot Springs from the reputable dealer.

Invest in your future...Be nice to your customers.

[Voice]

my store is doing just fine. In fact we are one of the best in the country, and I treat my customers with much respect......But I will ALWAYS treat MY customers better than some stranger who supported Costco and now wants me to save them...

I also see problems, and I fix them now! I am proactive, rather than reactive to a situation....You want us to be in business and have us save you, use our free services and support someone else??

your future must include living inside of a fairy tale??

What is lacking on this forum, rather than in my showroom, is common business sense and a respect for peoples efforts, education, time and value.

dunk your heads in some water

and for the record I am not angry, but just as there once were no speed regulation signs, we all broke the rules and an order had to be put in place....

this industry will change......and you don't have the dealers to blame

[reeffreak]

I just have to get on the record to say that all you complainers are absolutely annoying...If we put prices on every spa we would be making it too easy for our competition to source out our pricing and either beat it or be right in line with it....We are not in business to make our competitions business easier.....Ever try walking into a home depot with a camera? do it and see how friendly they are with you.....It is much harder to price shop a big box store because you have so many products in one store, you cant go around with a pad of paper and write down every price.. We also put the MSRP's on our spa for this reason as well... If we do get prioce shopped, it is going to be the wrong price and our competition's price will not be in line with ours...

<snip!>

so unless you know anything at all about marketing and or a retail industry, quit complaining and suck it up

nuff said

Do you think your competition really is fooled by the MSRP gag? I'm sure you've heard of mystery shopping. If your competition really wants the data, they'll get it. In your deception campaign your moonshot pricing may well have turned off a customer though.

You mentioned competition 3 times in the rant above, and never mentioned customer once. Yo've demonstrated for all that you should heed your own advice.

[Voice]

I explained why prices are not put on product, I know what a price shop is, and I KNOW i am going to make the competition WORK for it if they want my REAL price....if you want a sales and marketing course go to school......I have represented over 32 companies and sold in many industries. Your lame bashing does not serve a purpose....give me some facts to justify buying a hot tub from Costco, then going to your professional dealer for help.....Then and only then might we have an intelligent conversation

until then, get educated. I know I am