Bummed Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 Still figuring out how to get my water to stay clear. The water is clear after sitting overnight, but if I turn the jets on for 30 seconds, the water clouds up. When I turn it off, the water stays cloudy for at least an hour. This is without even going in Ph 7.5 Alk 80 Hardness 75 free chlorine 3-5 ppm Freshwater salt system, and salt is also in recommended range Use oxidizer after each use and weekly Tub is 3 weeks old, so I don’t think it’s a filter issue, and I’ve rinsed the filters already last weekend. I added some baking powder a week ago for a low ph (yes I’m a dumbass an realize it should have been baking soda) and noticed the cloudiness got really bad after that. Is that my problem? Any thoughts would be appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 It could be. With those numbers your saturation index is -0.5, which coul cause some clouding of too. I would drain and refill, then increase calcium hardness to 200ppm with ph and alk where they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bummed Posted July 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 I Can’t have my hardness above 75 for the salt system. The dealer actually wants me at 25 what about water clarifiers? Do those work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, Bummed said: I Can’t have my hardness above 75 for the salt system. The dealer actually wants me at 25 what about water clarifiers? Do those work? That's ridiculous. I guess nobody in the midwest can use them then, since our water starts much higher than that. Salt cells have been used in pools for more than a decade. If you had 75ppm calcium in a plaster pool it would eat the plaster off the walls. https://www.google.com/amp/s/blog.orendatech.com/langelier-saturation-index%3fhs_amp=true Educate yourself. Your dealer is a moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bummed Posted July 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 That’s the manufacturers recommendations from hot springs to be 25 - 75 hardness but personally i find the salt system to be a useless gimmick, id rather have Clear water than Add chlorine to the tub Less frequently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletonia Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 Calcium hardness needs to be between 25-75 ppm with the salt systems (either FreshWater Salt or old ACE Salt). Anything higher can cause scale build up on the salt cartridges. Clarifiers work but they should never be used on a regular basis. YMMV regarding salt. It's not a gimmick, but it's also not perfect either. If your dealer doesn't get you started off correct to begin with, you're gonna have issues. I tell all of my customers this: I personally would own and use the FreshWater Salt System if my hot tub was compatible. However, buy the hot tub that meets your wants, needs, budget, etc and let the water care routine be the last part of the equation. If you don't like saltwater, then switch. You can easily switch to chlorine and use the Nature2 or request your dealer swap out the salt system for ozone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 I have never seen water with a hardness that low. Nor can I find ANY manufacturer or professional organization that recommends calcium levels that low. From the NSPF (National Swimming Pool Foundation) and the APSP (Association of Pool and Spa Professionals) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.apsp.org/Portals/0/PDFs/Advantis%20Spa%20Chemistry%20Book%20-%20ENGLISH.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjSjvPHlK_qAhWJVc0KHUKgD8QQFjAKegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw2ZrWHVYHmrIpZb9KUwoo7L to spa chlorine generator manufacturers. https://www.controlomatic.com/spa-equipment-corrosion-saltwater/ I find it very disappointing that Watkins manufacturing is recommending conditions that cause aggressive water that will damage equipment and gaskets. I hope that is not true. I will definitely not recommend those systems if that is the case. @castletonia, can you shed a little light on this foolishness? My opinion of hot springs is plummeting right now. The only feasible way to achieve balanced water at 75ppm calcium hardness is to raise ph to 7.8 and alkalinity to 120ppm. Is that what they recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 3 hours ago, RDspaguy said: @castletonia, can you shed a little light on this foolishness? My opinion of hot springs is plummeting right now. Me sitting here eating popcorn waiting for the reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletonia Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 3 hours ago, RDspaguy said: I have never seen water with a hardness that low. Nor can I find ANY manufacturer or professional organization that recommends calcium levels that low. From the NSPF (National Swimming Pool Foundation) and the APSP (Association of Pool and Spa Professionals) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.apsp.org/Portals/0/PDFs/Advantis%20Spa%20Chemistry%20Book%20-%20ENGLISH.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjSjvPHlK_qAhWJVc0KHUKgD8QQFjAKegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw2ZrWHVYHmrIpZb9KUwoo7L to spa chlorine generator manufacturers. https://www.controlomatic.com/spa-equipment-corrosion-saltwater/ I find it very disappointing that Watkins manufacturing is recommending conditions that cause aggressive water that will damage equipment and gaskets. I hope that is not true. I will definitely not recommend those systems if that is the case. @castletonia, can you shed a little light on this foolishness? My opinion of hot springs is plummeting right now. The only feasible way to achieve balanced water at 75ppm calcium hardness is to raise ph to 7.8 and alkalinity to 120ppm. Is that what they recommend? Hot Spring recommends pH at between 7.4-7.8 and TA between 80-120. These have always been the pH and Alk guidelines to my knowledge and the CH has been than way since the introduction of ACE back in 2008 I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 Ok. With CH at 75ppm, maintain Ph no less than 7.6 and alkalinity no less than 100. This gives a SI of -0.3, which is on the cusp of corrosive, but should help with clarity. The higher any of those goes, the closer to balance (SI 0.0) you are. But high ph causes scale which is bad for a salt cell and heater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bummed Posted July 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 Would I be better off swapping the salt system out and putting an ozonator in instead? my dealers been pretty great and is offering to swap it out at no charge. Seems so much lower maintenance (no salt needed, no calcium hardness bag, no oxidizer shock, just sanitizer as needed....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratchett Posted July 4, 2020 Report Share Posted July 4, 2020 11 hours ago, Bummed said: Would I be better off swapping the salt system out and putting an ozonator in instead? I mean I use an Ozonator and Silver mineral cartridge in my Hotspring Jetsetter. The only two chemicals I use otherwise are Dichlor56 and Baking Soda (to raise PH as needed, tested monthly). Setup is easy for me - fill with water, dump in three tablespoons of dichlor56 and run the jets for 30 minutes with cover off to shock the tub initially. 18 hours most of the chlorine shock has burned off and the tub is ready to use Even though my tub is Freshwater salt compatible, I currently have no desire to switch to salt. For sh!ts and grins I *might* consider testing freshwater salt once my ozonator fails in two years, but for now I'm perfectly happy adding a bit of Dichlor to the spa after each soak - it takes me 10 seconds to add the sanitizer before closing the lid so it's not a big deal at all. I get that some people like Freshwater salt, but it seems like more hassle than it's worth especially when you factor in the cost of replacement salt cells which are not sold online currently and must be purchased through the dealer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cusser Posted July 4, 2020 Report Share Posted July 4, 2020 Could your pump be sucking in some air, and you're seeing tiny entrapped bubbles as the cloudiness? It seems that I observed a swimming pool that did this decades ago, had no external leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bummed Posted July 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 Nah. I just dumped and refilled and water is crystal clear (I did a Chemical spa purge too) Hopefully just had issues with biofilm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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