Dealers Telling Me Conflicting Things, Help A Newbie!

[CMACD]

Dealer 1 has 2009 680 series Hawthorne and Hartford for ~$6000

Dealer 2 has Tiger River Caspian for $9300 and Bengal for $7300, sh also gave me some new info on Hot Spot Tempo and Relay ($5 and 6K respectively)

Dealer 1 is telling me that Hartford is comparable with Caspian and dealer 2 is telling me that caspian is a much better tub and that Tempo compares with Hartford

Can someone help me figure this out? The specs on the Tempo look similar to the Hartford, but the tub looks cheaper. The Caspian looks more comparable to the Hartford to me, like dealer 1 said, but I'm a newbie!

[Pathfinder]

I dont sell either one but IMO i would say go with the Sundance tubs over the Tiger River. Tiger River is inferior to a Hot Spring which is made buy the same Parent company. I cant see how a Caspian is $9300 but thats just me

[JerimiahR]

To be honest, I prefer the Tiger River line over the Sundance line. The Tiger River Spas are basically the same as a Hot Spring, just without the pre-installed Ozone and no-bypass filter system. All else is essentially the same. So you're looking at a very energy efficient spa, with a strong reliability factor over a long term life. Just about 30-40 minutes ago I spoke with a customer of ours who was telling me all about his 1980's Hot Spring that he still uses.

The Hot Spot Tempo is a brand new model for 2010. To be honest I don't even have my first Tempo in stock yet. From a mechanical stand point, the Hot Spot models are more comparable to other brands (outside of Hot Spring). The Hot Spring/Tiger River spas are designed and operated in a very different manner. For example, they use a different style of Titanium Heater, and have a very small circulation pump that runs 24/7. This helps reduce wear n tear on jet pumps considerably (no stop/go driving) and also reduces your energy bill. The little circulation pump used these days is labeled as using like 39W. So having it run 24/7 is cheaper than leaving your porch light on. It'll move/filter about 5,000 gallons of water a day without ever needing to activate your jet pump(s).

Now the Sundance brand does offer a "circulation pump" option as an add on for some models, but it's not quite the same system. It's a programmable pump, and is larger. The nice thing about the Tiger River Caspian option is that it requires absolutely zero programming. If the power is on, it's filtering 24/7 and maintains your set temp (even after power loss/return).

[JerimiahR]

I dont sell either one but IMO i would say go with the Sundance tubs over the Tiger River. Tiger River is inferior to a Hot Spring which is made buy the same Parent company. I cant see how a Caspian is $9300 but thats just me

By "inferior" do you mean "less featured"? Because aside from a couple of features, the Tiger River Spas are identical in manufacturing, pumps, heaters, circulation pumps, insulation, bottom floor drains, etc to the Hot Spring Spas.

[Mikey_in_NY]

$6,000 is a good price for the Sundance's. Last year I paid $7,000 for my 2009 Hawthorne including tax, cover, cover lifter, steps, and the 'optional' 24 hour circ pump, ozonator, LED lights and stainless jet trim. Don't know about the Tiger River Caspian but yes, I'd have to assume it's a better tub when it costs $3,300 more.

The Sundance circ pump is not programmable - it's hardwired to run 24/7. You can program the filter cycles, i.e. 30 mins for 2, 3 or 4 times a day, or just 2 x 5 mins per day. With the circ pump option you do not need to run the main pumps for heat as the heater works in conjunction with the circ pump, plus the 24/7 ozonator.

[Pathfinder]

Sundance does not offer the 24hr circ as an option its standard.

[r5ran]

Dealer 1 has 2009 680 series Hawthorne and Hartford for ~$6000

Dealer 2 has Tiger River Caspian for $9300 and Bengal for $7300, sh also gave me some new info on Hot Spot Tempo and Relay ($5 and 6K respectively)

Dealer 1 is telling me that Hartford is comparable with Caspian and dealer 2 is telling me that caspian is a much better tub and that Tempo compares with Hartford

Can someone help me figure this out? The specs on the Tempo look similar to the Hartford, but the tub looks cheaper. The Caspian looks more comparable to the Hartford to me, like dealer 1 said, but I'm a newbie!

Hi, when I was searching for my tub about 18 months back, I wet tested many tubs, including a Caspian, and several Sundances. The Caspian was a very good value and was my second choice overall. But your price seems really high, especially in this economy. I was quoted $7100 OTD , with opt ozone and all the usual options, (steps, cover lifter, $100 of chemicals, etc...) and w/6% sales tax included....so I would shop around.....

Like I said we almost bought the Caspian, until we wet tested a Vanguard....no comparison! It was only $1000 more than the Caspian, ($8100 OTD) and worth every penny, No one will argue that no one makes a higher quality tub than H/S, and mine has been flawless in 18 months of heavy cold weather use.... I have heard of others on this forum getting the new 09 Vanguards in the mid $8k range lately...cheaper than you are paying for your Caspian....So do yourself a favor and wet test a Vanguard...you may be pleasantly surprised! Randy.

[Roger]

Dealer 1 has 2009 680 series Hawthorne and Hartford for ~$6000

Dealer 2 has Tiger River Caspian for $9300 and Bengal for $7300, sh also gave me some new info on Hot Spot Tempo and Relay ($5 and 6K respectively)

Dealer 1 is telling me that Hartford is comparable with Caspian and dealer 2 is telling me that caspian is a much better tub and that Tempo compares with Hartford

Can someone help me figure this out? The specs on the Tempo look similar to the Hartford, but the tub looks cheaper. The Caspian looks more comparable to the Hartford to me, like dealer 1 said, but I'm a newbie!

Those prices for the TR's are outrages. And IMO the Sundance is slightly better.

[JerimiahR]

Sundance does not offer the 24hr circ as an option its standard.

If that's the case, I'd say it's about time. However, this is what the Sundance website says about the Hartford model:

And with the optional Customized Luxury upgrades like stainless steel jets, a marine-grade stereo with in-spa speakers, a 24-hour circulation pump, and seductive in-spa LED lighting, the Hartford becomes not only one of our large spas, but one of our luxury spas too.

(Emphasis Mine)

Source: http://www.sundancespas.com/680Series/Large-Hot-Tubs.html

Also, if you do a "Compare" between the 680 Hartford with the 880 Optima on the Sundance website, the 24-hr circ pump is listed as "optional".

Water Treatment:

SunZone™ Ozone System-ready**, optional CL 24-hour Circulation Pump

Source: http://www.sundancespas.com/Hot-Tubs-Comparison.html

The 880 and 780 series appear to have circulation pumps, however they are optional on the 680 series. The other thing to consider, is this is a larger pump than what Hot Spring uses. Folks can argue that point back and forth as far as gallons per minute and filtration (whether you need as much or not) and compare that with overall energy efficiency.

[spawn]

Just one more opinion from a fellow spa shopper - I have looked at and been very interested in each of those spas. I think the Sundance Hawthrone / Hartford is little better spa than the Tiger River Caspian and would buy the Sundance if it was the same price as the Tiger River. To pay $3300 more is absurd. I know that Jeremiah who sells Tiger River has "explained" why it's a "better" spa, but I my opinion is different.

[Stuart A]

If the power is on, it's filtering 24/7 and maintains your set temp (even after power loss/return).

If you are away for any amount of time and have a power cut you would want the heater and filter system to come back on. I would of hoped that all spa makes would do this, it was certainly a question I asked before buying ours and I tested it, our display blinks to indicate a power interuption.

[Mikey_in_NY]

The 880 and 780 series appear to have circulation pumps, however they are optional on the 680 series. The other thing to consider, is this is a larger pump than what Hot Spring uses. Folks can argue that point back and forth as far as gallons per minute and filtration (whether you need as much or not) and compare that with overall energy efficiency.

You are correct Jerimiah - the circ pump, ozonator, stereo, LED lights and stainless trim are all optional on the 680 series, however my dealer "threw-in" (if there really is such a thing) all of these options except the stereo when I bought my Hawthorne last year. No idea how much energy the circ pump uses, but I've been very happy with my tub so far - no issues.

[JerimiahR]

You are correct Jerimiah - the circ pump, ozonator, stereo, LED lights and stainless trim are all optional on the 680 series, however my dealer "threw-in" (if there really is such a thing) all of these options except the stereo when I bought my Hawthorne last year. No idea how much energy the circ pump uses, but I've been very happy with my tub so far - no issues.

Yeah some of this depends on how your local dealer 'packages' things. If they only order their 680 series spas WITH the circ pump, their sales staff may very well say it's standard. In the same way, 4 wheel drive is standard on all trucks/SUVs here in Montana. If you go ask for a 2WD version they usually laugh at you and ask if you're actually serious. With the snowy winter conditions 4WD is very common here.

[JerimiahR]

Just one more opinion from a fellow spa shopper - I have looked at and been very interested in each of those spas. I think the Sundance Hawthrone / Hartford is little better spa than the Tiger River Caspian and would buy the Sundance if it was the same price as the Tiger River. To pay $3300 more is absurd. I know that Jeremiah who sells Tiger River has "explained" why it's a "better" spa, but I my opinion is different.

Opinions are good! Sundance does make a pretty good hot tub too, so it's not like you can go completely wrong there. I imagine the OP (Original Poster) can talk to their local Hot Spring dealer on the pricing end of things and see if they can or are willing to be more competitive. Not like it hurts to ask.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Opinions are good! Sundance does make a pretty good hot tub too, so it's not like you can go completely wrong there. I imagine the OP (Original Poster) can talk to their local Hot Spring dealer on the pricing end of things and see if they can or are willing to be more competitive. Not like it hurts to ask.

Not sure what you sell them for but while I like the Caspian 9300 is high (especially when the Bengal is 7300 and even though its smaller thats a big difference within the same product line). Do you have the the new Hot Spots he mentioned (or pics)?

[CMACD]

Opinions are good! Sundance does make a pretty good hot tub too, so it's not like you can go completely wrong there. I imagine the OP (Original Poster) can talk to their local Hot Spring dealer on the pricing end of things and see if they can or are willing to be more competitive. Not like it hurts to ask.

Not sure what you sell them for but while I like the Caspian 9300 is high (especially when the Bengal is 7300 and even though its smaller thats a big difference within the same product line). Do you have the the new Hot Spots he mentioned (or pics)?

The hot spots are on the hot spring website, but the new ones are called Tempo and Relay. I can try to attach the sell sheets she sent me later if you're interested.

[UK Arctic Dealer]

Wet test, wet test , wet test

[ps558]

Wet test, wet test , wet test

I agree with Artic Dealer wet test the spas you are looking at. Both companies make good product. choose the one that feels best for jet placement comfort etc. Don't worry about the extras they are no big deal. Ozone can be added and all filtration types work

[THE SPA GUY]

I don't sell either brand but from what i have seen and checked out they both are very good brands,,,i don't think you can go wrong, just pick the dealer your most comfortable with buying from,,

but one question is why would Sundance he preaches the horizontal filter system, use the vertical system like there sister Jacuzzi.. i believe this a (stripped down version of the chelsea).and isn't the Tiger river warranty 5 year on components and leak, and the Sundance 3 years on both......

[alpine hot tub moving]

tiger river all the way!

but wet test and see what fits you best

[Wannago]

Do the Tiger River's also use the easy to maintain / cheap to replace 5 filter system the the Hot Springs do?

[/sarcasm]

[Water Boy]

I don't sell either brand but from what i have seen and checked out they both are very good brands,,,i don't think you can go wrong, just pick the dealer your most comfortable with buying from,,

but one question is why would Sundance he preaches the horizontal filter system, use the vertical system like there sister Jacuzzi.. i believe this a (stripped down version of the chelsea).and isn't the Tiger river warranty 5 year on components and leak, and the Sundance 3 years on both......

Not to confuse people more, but I know that the Tiger River used to have a five year component warranty, but now on their website it says three year component & heater warranty. Did that change for this year? Maybe a HS dealer will know. Here is the link to the Tiger River warranty:

Tiger River Warranty

So it looks like that both spas that the OP are looking at both have a three year warranty.

[Peteyboy]

I don't sell either brand but from what i have seen and checked out they both are very good brands,,,i don't think you can go wrong, just pick the dealer your most comfortable with buying from,,

but one question is why would Sundance he preaches the horizontal filter system, use the vertical system like there sister Jacuzzi.. i believe this a (stripped down version of the chelsea).and isn't the Tiger river warranty 5 year on components and leak, and the Sundance 3 years on both......

Not to confuse people more, but I know that the Tiger River used to have a five year component warranty, but now on their website it says three year component & heater warranty. Did that change for this year? Maybe a HS dealer will know. Here is the link to the Tiger River warranty:

Tiger River Warranty

So it looks like that both spas that the OP are looking at both have a three year warranty.

Yes - for 2010 the Tiger River have a 3 year component & heater warranty. Hmmm.

[THE SPA GUY]

thanks for the update, good to learn these things, i don't want to tell a consumer the wrong thing...i am not a tiger river seller, so did not know of the change, Wannago thats pretty good , i like it......well put.....

[Water Boy]

thanks for the update, good to learn these things, i don't want to tell a consumer the wrong thing...i am not a tiger river seller, so did not know of the change, Wannago thats pretty good , i like it......well put.....

Thanks for the clarification Peteyboy. I don't think you were being misleading Spa Guy. I think it must of just changed. I just happened to browse the site and saw that it changed.