Cal Spas Avalon Vs. Arctic Yukon?

[srosti]

Hi...

I've been researching hot tubs for my cabin for several weeks now and I have it narrowed down to two hot tubs, the Cal Spas Avalon (A826B) and the Arctic Yukon Prestige.

My first choice of spa is the Cal Spas Avalon based on price and features. I am looking for a hot tub that can seat lots of people and has a big open foot well. However, I am seriously looking at the Arctic Yukon because of it's supposed performance in cold weather. This hot tub is going to be sitting at a mostly vacant cabin in the Idaho mountains.

The Cal Spas Avalan looks like it comes with comparable insulation and it comes with a thicker cover than than the Arctic (5" vs. 4"). Also, the Cal Spa dealer I've heard is more reputable than the Arctic dealer in our area. I do hear more complaints about Cal Spas in general on the web, but that could be just because they are one of the more popular brands... I'm not sure.

Are the Arctic hot tubs really better than the Cal Spas Avalon in cold climates, or is it just marketing hype?

Thanks for your help!

Shawn

[SpaMan]

Hi...

I've been researching hot tubs for my cabin for several weeks now and I have it narrowed down to two hot tubs, the Cal Spas Avalon (A826B) and the Arctic Yukon Prestige.

My first choice of spa is the Cal Spas Avalon based on price and features. I am looking for a hot tub that can seat lots of people and has a big open foot well. However, I am seriously looking at the Arctic Yukon because of it's supposed performance in cold weather. This hot tub is going to be sitting at a mostly vacant cabin in the Idaho mountains.

The Cal Spas Avalan looks like it comes with comparable insulation and it comes with a thicker cover than than the Arctic (5" vs. 4"). Also, the Cal Spa dealer I've heard is more reputable than the Arctic dealer in our area. I do hear more complaints about Cal Spas in general on the web, but that could be just because they are one of the more popular brands... I'm not sure.

Are the Arctic hot tubs really better than the Cal Spas Avalon in cold climates, or is it just marketing hype?

Thanks for your help!

Shawn

To myu surprise the Avalon series has taken off to an amazing start , sales have sky rocketed on this new product and I must admit I am not on efor change and sneered at the Avalon series but I gotta admit they perform very very well. Good luck! <<<Cal Spas Of Denver Employee

[Jim_The_Jim]

Hi...

I've been researching hot tubs for my cabin for several weeks now and I have it narrowed down to two hot tubs, the Cal Spas Avalon (A826B) and the Arctic Yukon Prestige.

My first choice of spa is the Cal Spas Avalon based on price and features. I am looking for a hot tub that can seat lots of people and has a big open foot well. However, I am seriously looking at the Arctic Yukon because of it's supposed performance in cold weather. This hot tub is going to be sitting at a mostly vacant cabin in the Idaho mountains.

The Cal Spas Avalan looks like it comes with comparable insulation and it comes with a thicker cover than than the Arctic (5" vs. 4"). Also, the Cal Spa dealer I've heard is more reputable than the Arctic dealer in our area. I do hear more complaints about Cal Spas in general on the web, but that could be just because they are one of the more popular brands... I'm not sure.

Are the Arctic hot tubs really better than the Cal Spas Avalon in cold climates, or is it just marketing hype?

Thanks for your help!

Shawn

I would go to ripoffreport.com, rhtubs.com http://www.complaints.com/ and read the reports by consumers.

Get a list of customers from the dealer. If they don't have a reference list of at least fifty customers, then?

[Roger]

Hi...

Are the Arctic hot tubs really better than the Cal Spas Avalon in cold climates, or is it just marketing hype?

Thanks for your help!

Shawn

I think you will find they both cost about the same to operate. But you should wet test and get a better feel for both dealers and tell them to leave the marketing hype out. I think Arctic is a fine product, but I also think Calspa has come a ways and has improved on some of there higher end products. Yes they do sell 100 (speculation.....its alot) times more tubs than Arctic so there will be more complaints.

[Boetta]

Hi Shawn,

I'm an Arctic spa owner and know very little of the Cal Spas, but I do live in a very cold climate and I checked a couple of things before deciding.

Are the pumps, heaters and all the other expencive stuff inside the insulation, not in a vented engine room?

If you the breaker goes, and you are not there, how well is this equipment protected, will it get heat from the water or will this euipment be the first to freeze?

Walk on the cover with some of your friends, if you can't, the snow will break it. (thickness is not always the same as strength)

If you are putting it outdoors on the ground, be sure to have a good floor under it.

I also liked the ability to upgrade to more pumps and more jets or new technology if I wanted later.

I got dealers to unscrew the side panels of their cabinets, so I could use my own common sense to decide what seemed to be the better way to build for this cold climate.

I'm sorry I never checked Cal spa for you, but it seemed to me then putting a Californian spa in this climate did not make sense, but who knows?

So my advice is to not listen too much to the sales guys, unscrew and decide on what you already know about insulating and building for cold climates.

[Roger]

Hi Shawn,

I'm an Arctic spa owner and know very little of the Cal Spas, but I do live in a very cold climate and I checked a couple of things before deciding.

Are the pumps, heaters and all the other expencive stuff inside the insulation, not in a vented engine room?

If you the breaker goes, and you are not there, how well is this equipment protected, will it get heat from the water or will this euipment be the first to freeze?

At 20 below both types of insulation will need to be repaired as soon as possible to prevent freeze up, both types of insulation will need a small heater to pevent it untill a repair can be made. The foam is thin behind the equipment on a full foam tub so when a winter kit is installed on a full foam tub (which is what we do here in Northern Minnesota) the warmth from the vessel is transmitted into the equipment bay during power down. Isn't there vents on the Arctic cabinet, yes there is but they also sell a winter kit right? Or is it a summer kit that you take off to vent the cabinet? Tom are you there? Tom is from Arctic and he can answer this, he is a great guy.

Walk on the cover with some of your friends, if you can't, the snow will break it. (thickness is not always the same as strength)

Ummm not true. Snow won't break any cover I have seen, however people will, and Arctic along with a couple other manufacturers has a very sturdy cover. This is one of the things I always advocate is a hundred dollar cover upgrade for colder climates. All brands offer it.

If you are putting it outdoors on the ground, be sure to have a good floor under it.

Most brands do have a floor of some sort but I have seen plenty of 20 year old tubs that have sat outside there entire life and were fine floor or not. Its what is under the tub that is more important, a good solid foundation.

I also liked the ability to upgrade to more pumps and more jets or new technology if I wanted later.

This is kinda a marketing thing that you will find later on in your ownership means nothing. In 10-15 years you will want something all together different if your still interested in hot tubs. Adding jets is a bit costly because of manifold restraints, adding pumps, well hopefully you wet tested and got what you wanted from the beginning.

I got dealers to unscrew the side panels of their cabinets, so I could use my own common sense to decide what seemed to be the better way to build for this cold climate.

I'm sorry I never checked Cal spa for you, but it seemed to me then putting a Californian spa in this climate did not make sense, but who knows?

Whats inside the walls of your house? Theres an awfull lot of things built in other areas for colder climates. Winter jackets made in Mexico, are they any good for northern weather? You have been completely taken by the Arctic retoric Boetta, it's a good thing they do make a good spa. Not better than a whole bunch of others but a good spa. If you would of been this well sold on a cheap spa I would feel sorry for you.

So my advice is to not listen too much to the sales guys, unscrew and decide on what you already know about insulating and building for cold climates.

Your advice is to not listen to the sales guys, when you have been so convinced by them you are blind to the fact that we fill our walls with as much insulation as possible, we even build our walls with 2x6 inch studs so we can stuff more insulation into them, yet you are using our house as an analogy to an insulation skeem that relys on a heat source that we don't use for the majority of a day. Wow boe, maybe you need to rethink what you post about Arctic.

My advice is to not worry to much about the insulation style and fall for any manufacturers sales retoric as it will only be pennys diference to operate either insulation method as long as it is done right, takes Boes sortof advice and get a good cover which may be an upgrade for a hundred bucks or so from a particular dealer/brand. And get the tub that is the most comfortable for you from the dealer you are the most comfortable with.

[Pathfinder]

Shawn, Go with your gut on how you feel about the tub you want to purchase. plus you want to look at dealer support. If one is more reputable than the other you should have your answer. You are also comparing an 8' to a 7' tub or did you mean an A726B either way both company produces good tubs. The longevity of an Arctic remains to be seen.

To give you an idea if arctic is better than cal in cold climates we have had 7 customers who have all had a cal for 12 plus years ran them year round and bought new ones bc of the performance in winter. We get temperatures as low as -40 celcius in the winter. The efficiency of the older tubs in my opinion was kind of poor and cant touch the new tubs.

You shouldnt have to rely on pumps to keep your cabinet warm. Boettas relpy sounds like a dealer presentation word for word

[Boetta]

Yes I a must admit I'm completely sold on the Arctic way of building the spa !

I would say if a spa needs a winter kit it is not espacially made for cold climates, Arctic has no winter kit and no vents, neither any summer kits.

Arctic insulates as a house, insulation on the cabinet walls not the shell.

It is not true we do put as much insulation as we can in the walls when building a house here, as 4-5 inches will be enough to keep the cold out, so why put in 20 inch? We put the insulation in the walls and double in the roof, we do not put everything in the basement.

Snow will break covers, we had about 3 meters of snow last year, and spas in two of the cabins in this area broke their covers, I agree with Roger, at least buy an upgade. I would prefer to have walked on them to be sure they can take the weight.

As for the floor under the spa it depends on what you put it on, I bought my Arctic with the glassfiber floor unde so I did not need to make a foundation, but put it right on the grass. If you already have som kind of foundation, you probably will not need that.

I have upgraded once and are now thinking of another upgrade, do not know how many people do that, but new stuff is coming all the time.

I still will advice you to open the cabinets to see what you buy, that can't be too much to ask?

[srosti]

Shawn, Go with your gut on how you feel about the tub you want to purchase. plus you want to look at dealer support. If one is more reputable than the other you should have your answer. You are also comparing an 8' to a 7' tub or did you mean an A726B either way both company produces good tubs. The longevity of an Arctic remains to be seen.

To give you an idea if arctic is better than cal in cold climates we have had 7 customers who have all had a cal for 12 plus years ran them year round and bought new ones bc of the performance in winter. We get temperatures as low as -40 celcius in the winter. The efficiency of the older tubs in my opinion was kind of poor and cant touch the new tubs.

You shouldnt have to rely on pumps to keep your cabinet warm. Boettas relpy sounds like a dealer presentation word for word

I was looking at the A726 (7' Cal Spa Avalon), until I realized that the A826 was 8' tub and only $100 dollars more. It seemed like a no brainer if you have the room for an 8' tub. The 8' Avalon is still cheaper than the Arctic Yukon.

Shawn

[Pathfinder]

I believe you will not have to buy an upgraded cover for the Avalon since it is already 5"-3" but for piece of mind you can spend about $100 more to get the "walk on" cover that is 2lb density foam from Cal

Why worry about upgrading your tub and drilling more holes down the road get the tub you want now. When you try to aftermarket new jet holes it weakens the the structure up here if you drill new holes it voids the warranty of the acrylic unless your dealer rights up a contract saying they will cover the shell warranty after they ve done the work.

By the way Boetta if your gonna use a house analogy think about how your home is heated If you use a forced air furnace it has a ducting system to heat your house much like a regular spa a furnace does not radiate heat from the basement to heat your house

[Tom]

When you try to aftermarket new jet holes it weakens the the structure up here if you drill new holes it voids the warranty of the acrylic

Holes for new jets are obviously not drilled at random, and the structure will not be affected when new jets are added in places designed for them. Doesn't matter if the holes are drilled at the factory or on location. Because the Arctic is designed for upgrade, manifolds and lines are accessible and can be upsized if necessary.

Such upgrades, when performed by factory authorized service centers, do not void the warranty on either the acrylic or the spa, and the upgrade itself is usually warranted by the service center doing the work.

[SpaMan]

Hi Shawn,

I'm an Arctic spa owner and know very little of the Cal Spas, but I do live in a very cold climate and I checked a couple of things before deciding.

Are the pumps, heaters and all the other expencive stuff inside the insulation, not in a vented engine room?

If you the breaker goes, and you are not there, how well is this equipment protected, will it get heat from the water or will this euipment be the first to freeze?

Walk on the cover with some of your friends, if you can't, the snow will break it. (thickness is not always the same as strength)

If you are putting it outdoors on the ground, be sure to have a good floor under it.

I also liked the ability to upgrade to more pumps and more jets or new technology if I wanted later.

I got dealers to unscrew the side panels of their cabinets, so I could use my own common sense to decide what seemed to be the better way to build for this cold climate.

I'm sorry I never checked Cal spa for you, but it seemed to me then putting a Californian spa in this climate did not make sense, but who knows?

So my advice is to not listen too much to the sales guys, unscrew and decide on what you already know about insulating and building for cold climates.

Certainly you guys arent suggesting that the Arctic cabinet is totally sealed, are you? When you utilise all the heated air in the cabinet thru your venturi's where does the air come from? The statement of putting a California made spa in cold climates is just ignorant as I live in Denver and the majority of tubs sold here are from California. In my opinion anyone who would even think of plumbing more jets later is a fool, theres too many variables , such as will the pump support such extra jets and still have the desired volume of water flow thru the jets? If the answer is no, then you must add another pump is the pack and topside equipped to handle such an add on? I would just upgrade at the time of purchase and let the manufacturers do the desired changes, as drilling holes in the field can be very tricky and if you mess that up you may end up turning your spa into a planter. Good luck!

[Roger]

Yes I a must admit I'm completely sold on the Arctic way of building the spa !

I still will advice you to open the cabinets to see what you buy, that can't be too much to ask?

For a minute there Boe I though you were an Arctic sales man....LOL I am glad you are happy with your purchase because the purchasing part is so hard for alot of people that just getting into hot water can be difficult. Then once you are there it is worth the effort.

[flibotte]

It's nice to read a post that isn't ruined by people arguing and is actually helpful to the person who posted it. It's been a bad week for this board.

[srosti]

It's nice to read a post that isn't ruined by people arguing and is actually helpful to the person who posted it. It's been a bad week for this board.

Yes I agree, all of the responses have been very helpful... thanks!

Shawn

[wesj53]

I hope I am not too late with my response to your question, but wife and I also were very interested in the Avalon series #A857B. It had fantastic seating and lots of jets with a center footjet well with volcano. Unfortunately, in a metro area of over 7mm (Chicago) neither dealer chain who are supposed to sell Cal Spas have even one to wet test. They barely even have any on their floors! I was told that there have been considerable problems with the product over the last few years with replacement parts hardly in existence. Jets are on indefinite backorder which means good luck getting them any time soon. So dealers pull back and avoid further headaches caused by the mfg. OR, Cal Spas pays less commission; therefore the dealers decide to sell one of their other brands. I do not know the truth for sure, but it is very discouraging not being able to test one of their spas in an area this size. If the problem is not with Cal Spas, why don't they appoint new dealers here or is the problem with the mfg. BBB gives them a satisfactory rating although they do have hundreds of complaints lodged against them. But CS is huge with many products other than spas so I discount the complaint size. I have heard from many though that jets popping out of their spas is a real problem. That has been corroborated even on this site. We are visiting an Arctic dealer within the next week to wet test their Tundra. I like their TP design as well and think it would do well here in Northern IL. We also would like to test the Vita Rendevous. Does anyone know anything about them?

[Chas]

Holes for new jets are obviously not drilled at random, and the structure will not be affected when new jets are added in places designed for them. Doesn't matter if the holes are drilled at the factory or on location. Because the Arctic is designed for upgrade, manifolds and lines are accessible and can be upsized if necessary.

That sounds like a great idea. I would be interested in knowing more. Is this on your web site? You don't have a dealer near me - yet.

[Jim_The_Jim]

Shawn, Go with your gut on how you feel about the tub you want to purchase. plus you want to look at dealer support. If one is more reputable than the other you should have your answer. You are also comparing an 8' to a 7' tub or did you mean an A726B either way both company produces good tubs. The longevity of an Arctic remains to be seen.

To give you an idea if arctic is better than cal in cold climates we have had 7 customers who have all had a cal for 12 plus years ran them year round and bought new ones bc of the performance in winter. We get temperatures as low as -40 celcius in the winter. The efficiency of the older tubs in my opinion was kind of poor and cant touch the new tubs.

You shouldnt have to rely on pumps to keep your cabinet warm. Boettas relpy sounds like a dealer presentation word for word

Gut??? If I listen to my guts, I would get a sort of digesting food sound.

Every hear the one about the ducks flying south in a cloudy storm. There are three of them.

Papa duck says: "My instincts tell me we need to go that way." pointing to the left.

Mama duck says: "My instincts tell me we need to proceed in that direction." Pointing to the right.

Baby duck says: "My end stinks too, but it doesn't tell me anything!"

Use your brains and find out what it is that you are buying before you buy. Get feedback from customers and lot of them. Look up all the complaints and find customers who are happy with them. Once you make the deciion and sign a contract, you cannot normaly go backwards.

Find out what the electric bills are really like.

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Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain

[Pathfinder]

Hijacked again!!!

What is your deal? just bc they arent going to buy from you you could at least offer some normal relevant info on the two products that we are discussing on this topic instead of your back handed opinions

If you have something to say about Arctic SAY IT!!! If you have something to Say About Cal then SAY IT but watch what you say I had an interesting convo with a particular person at Cal 2 days ago Who would like to be emailed if there is any slanderous accusations regarding Their product or company and please dont take it as a threat I just want these people who want info to get it afterall Im not getting any money if they buy a Cal spa somewhere else!

[wesj53]

Hijacked again!!!

What is your deal? just bc they arent going to buy from you you could at least offer some normal relevant info on the two products that we are discussing on this topic instead of your back handed opinions

If you have something to say about Arctic SAY IT!!! If you have something to Say About Cal then SAY IT but watch what you say I had an interesting convo with a particular person at Cal 2 days ago Who would like to be emailed if there is any slanderous accusations regarding Their product or company and please dont take it as a threat I just want these people who want info to get it afterall Im not getting any money if they buy a Cal spa somewhere else!

I trust your response was directed towards Jim the Jim and not me Pathfinder. I am interested if you can re-contact your Cal Spa rep and find out what's going on in the Chicago market. Believe me when I tell you that a consumer cannot wet test a Cal at most of their dealer locations. There are 2 multi-location dealers here in the metro and none of the locations around me have any wet and maybe only one dry on the floor! How can I buy one of their tubs when you can't test them? This apathetic dealer representation means a potential client would have a poor perception of the product. What's wrong with it, why isn't the dealer selling them, let alone even showing the line to customers? Cal Spas sales in greater Chicago must be close to nill. I really would like to know what's going on here.

[Jim_The_Jim]

Hijacked again!!!

What is your deal? just bc they arent going to buy from you you could at least offer some normal relevant info on the two products that we are discussing on this topic instead of your back handed opinions

If you have something to say about Arctic SAY IT!!! If you have something to Say About Cal then SAY IT but watch what you say I had an interesting convo with a particular person at Cal 2 days ago Who would like to be emailed if there is any slanderous accusations regarding Their product or company and please dont take it as a threat I just want these people who want info to get it afterall Im not getting any money if they buy a Cal spa somewhere else!

OK, Arctic spas are the only competition we have in the quality spa market.

That sort of tells you it all.

I don't consider any other brand to be competitive at our levels of quality. Arctic is an excellent second choice. Maybe you need to read about what high quality really is. The short version is that we don't cut corners, don't use four way valves, to split the spas up into partially useable products, don't weaken the structure, don't use plastic or cheap alumium control boxes, don't put cheap bullet jets all over people's backs to increase the jet count, and we follow all the safety rules.. We have sort of cornered the market on high end spas. Our spas are being requested more and more in the UK and Hawaii.

We had to build some spas with less features and less insulation in order to have a more direct competitive lines of spas.

The Provence and the Eclipse series are designed to compete with the high end of the competition, but they are still better made and will outlast most any brand with the least amount of warranty concerns. Most of our first models from 8 years ago are still running and have not had any major problems. Seal kit replacements or bad pumps because the owners did not have any maintenance done at all and they let the seals leak onto the motors. The first four of the Springville models are still running and have had no problems. That is not an accident, it is simply following standard engineering design principles.

Even the Eclipse series still has expensive high quality redwood on it. We put the composite sideing on the Provence series to be more competitive with the spas with the cheap plastic, ugly sides.

[Pathfinder]

WOW Jim, that was actually a decent post a sales pitch though and not about the 2 tubs in question but it has been better than some of the others.

[Jim_The_Jim]

WOW Jim, that was actually a decent post a sales pitch though and not about the 2 tubs in question but it has been better than some of the others.

You will also notice that our spas are not cheap. It is a hell of a lot of work to make spas like that. I have to overcome a lot of problems in just getting the highest quality parts. Since the other spa companies are no longer buying these highest end "Ultimate Jet Pumps" from WaterWay, we have to buy the motors and the wet ends to assemble them here. That is a real pain for us. But if you want to have a spa that can be "plugged in and run for 10 years with not problems." That is what is required.

If you go read up on electric motors it is rare to find a motor that has a power factor of .98.

Back when we bought Hercules spas, nobody was using a proper size motor on a 2 HP pump. Everybody had "uprate" pumps. Hecules which was owned by an engineer, used to do the same thing as I am now forced to do. They bought the 10 Amp motors instead of the 8.6 that others were using, because the 2 HP pumps needed the 10 amp motor if you wanted them to last. We still have plenty of Hercules spa owners across the country. The life expectancy of the motors is double when you use the proper motor for the job.

What happened to Hurcules is that Buzz died, he was pretty old and I heard he was onry, would not cut the quality (that is a compliment), and when he died left the factory to "marketing" and "accounting" people, who decided to copy Sundance spas. They lasted about 4 months after the first of the new spas hit the market.

I don't follow anybody who is more messed up than me.

The positive is that I look to people who know what they heck they are doing and seek advice from them. I talk with a lot of engineers across the country, because our site is custom made for people with mechanical understanding.

Our products reflect that.

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Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain