jasonw Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Hello, I purchased a new Dimension 1 Venture Hot Tub aprox a month ago. Everything on the tub has worked perfectly so far with the exception of it's ability to maintain temperature with the cover off. With the thermostat set at 104 once the cover is removed it begins to start losing heat, and loses heat rapidly if running all of the jets. Usually within 1/2 to 1 hr of having the cover removed the temperature has dropped to 100. I let me dealer know the problem and they came and replaced the 3.0 KW heater with a 5.5 KW heater, but the tub is still experiencing the same problems. Just wondering if anyone out there has experienced the same problem and if anyone knows any possible solutions. I'm alittle concerned seeing as it still fairly warm outside and am alittle worried for when we start seeing temperatures below zero. Thanks, Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Hello, I purchased a new Dimension 1 Venture Hot Tub aprox a month ago. Everything on the tub has worked perfectly so far with the exception of it's ability to maintain temperature with the cover off. With the thermostat set at 104 once the cover is removed it begins to start losing heat, and loses heat rapidly if running all of the jets. Usually within 1/2 to 1 hr of having the cover removed the temperature has dropped to 100. I let me dealer know the problem and they came and replaced the 3.0 KW heater with a 5.5 KW heater, but the tub is still experiencing the same problems. Just wondering if anyone out there has experienced the same problem and if anyone knows any possible solutions. I'm alittle concerned seeing as it still fairly warm outside and am alittle worried for when we start seeing temperatures below zero. Thanks, Jason How many amps is your circuit feeding the tub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonw Posted October 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 It's running off of a 220V 40A GFCI Breaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got-soaked Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 It's running off of a 220V 40A GFCI Breaker Does the temperture drop when the cover is off and the jets are also off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonw Posted October 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Yes it does with the jets off it drops from 104 to 100 in about 45 - 60mins, with jets on about 1/2 hr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got-soaked Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Yes it does with the jets off it drops from 104 to 100 in about 45 - 60mins, with jets on about 1/2 hr. Yup ... I had the same issue last winter with my Master Spa LSX1050 but it it only happen when it was in the low 30s. The tub couldn't maintain 102 degrees. The master spa dealer replaced the circuit board & heater and it still couldn't maintain 102. This month (Oct 2007) master replaced the tub with a new one. I'm waiting to see how it performs. If the heater is working properly it has to come down to insulation. Is your D1 fully insulated or thermal pane? The Master Spa LSX1050 is thermal “pain” and has gapping holes at the base along with air vents in two of the side panels, go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingSpaGuy Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 shouldnt that tub be on a 50amp breaker, is the tub full foamed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got-soaked Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 shouldnt that tub be on a 50amp breaker, is the tub full foamed? You do bring up a valid point since the heater was replaced with a 5.5KW heater the gauge wiring and breaker needs to be revisited. However, the breaker isn't the issue preventing the spa from maintaining 102 degrees. The breaker if undersized would be tripping when the pumps and heater kicked on. . The above is my opinion which is based on working knowledge of branch circuiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickJ Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Don't all hot tubs lose some heat when the cover is off? You have a large surface area exposed to air, it's bound to shed a few degrees. I guess I always assumed that it's normal to lose a few degrees in the tub while I'm using it. I don't know what you have your heater set at. If I have mine set on the economy mode, where it doesn't heat unless it's running a filtration cycle, then I lose a few degrees per hour when the cover is off. If I have it on the regular mode, it keeps the water closer to my set temperature. I actually like it to drop a degree of two while I'm in it. It allows me to stay in the water longer without overheating myself. Maybe you can adjust some settings to make the heater run more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got-soaked Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Don't all hot tubs lose some heat when the cover is off? You have a large surface area exposed to air, it's bound to shed a few degrees. I guess I always assumed that it's normal to lose a few degrees in the tub while I'm using it. I don't know what you have your heater set at. If I have mine set on the economy mode, where it doesn't heat unless it's running a filtration cycle, then I lose a few degrees per hour when the cover is off. If I have it on the regular mode, it keeps the water closer to my set temperature. I actually like it to drop a degree of two while I'm in it. It allows me to stay in the water longer without overheating myself. Maybe you can adjust some settings to make the heater run more. Not knowing all of the facts i.e., outdoor temperature, wind, etc., I would think a 4 degree drop in temperature from 104 to 100 degrees in a 30-60 minute time period is excessive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Don't all hot tubs lose some heat when the cover is off? You have a large surface area exposed to air, it's bound to shed a few degrees. I guess I always assumed that it's normal to lose a few degrees in the tub while I'm using it. No, not all tubs cool when in use. Yes, if the conditions are right, a tub will lose more heat than the heater can replace - but that would have to be icy wind across the surface. A wind break of any kind would help a lot. I live in paradise, so we don't get many frozen nights. But still, we do get some chilly ones from time to time, and those are my favorite nights to be in the tub. My tubs have kept temperature - at least the ones built within the past five years or so: HotSpring recycles the heat from the jet pump motors, and has either a 4000 watt heater or 6000 watt heater, depneding upon the model of spa. When run on 220 50amp, the heater can come on at any time, regardless of jets. Also, the plumbing and motor compartments are completely insulated, and all plumbing is held close to the shell and away from the outside cabinet walls. There are many engineering tricks which the high-end tubs employ which don't get listed in the brochure - this is an example of one of the results of those details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingSpaGuy Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Chas, LOL your trying to say hotsprings is better engineered then d1? This is his problem. Venture can come fullfoamed or non foamed, depending on dealer and how they ordered it...now that spa needs a 50amp breaker...since its not set on 50 amps the heater will not turn on when jet pumps are on meaning he is losing heat...goto 50 amps, you will stop losing heat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kengorman Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Usually within 1/2 to 1 hr of having the cover removed the temperature has dropped to 100. Hi Jason, Your experience seems similar to others who have reported similar experiences. Water temps of tubs seem to drop based upon a number of factors, including: cover off, jets running, air diverter valves open, outside air temperature, and wind speed. Here is a link to a discussion on another site where this is discussed. Just wondering if anyone out there has experienced the same problem and if anyone knows any possible solutions. Several methods in the discussion above were discussed to minimize the rate of cooling, including: erecting wind barriers, shutting off the air blower (or closing the air diverter valve), and using a closed-foam mat to reduce the effective surface area of the water. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonw Posted October 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 Chas, LOL your trying to say hotsprings is better engineered then d1? This is his problem. Venture can come fullfoamed or non foamed, depending on dealer and how they ordered it...now that spa needs a 50amp breaker...since its not set on 50 amps the heater will not turn on when jet pumps are on meaning he is losing heat...goto 50 amps, you will stop losing heat The tub is fullfoamed, Just wondering why wouldn't the 40amp breaker trip if the tub needs more amps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpz Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 Chas, LOL your trying to say hotsprings is better engineered then d1? This is his problem. Venture can come fullfoamed or non foamed, depending on dealer and how they ordered it...now that spa needs a 50amp breaker...since its not set on 50 amps the heater will not turn on when jet pumps are on meaning he is losing heat...goto 50 amps, you will stop losing heat The tub is fullfoamed, Just wondering why wouldn't the 40amp breaker trip if the tub needs more amps? I'm not sure how the Venture electrical panel is set up. However, on my Chairman II, there is a jumper that you select to match your breaker amperage. This controls the amount maximum amount of current draw that the spa will pull from the circuit. So, if you choose a lower amperage (40 vs 50 vs 60), this controls whether the heater works at full capacity, when the pumps are running. According to the D1 site, the Venture supposedly can be set up on either 30 or 40 amps....so you may want to make sure the jumper is in the correct position, otherwise, the spa won't even try to pull the full amperage, regardless of the breaker that you put in the fuse panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingSpaGuy Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 only 40? Wow, ok well thats correct, there are jumpers so if you hook a spa up to 30 when your pumps turn on high your heater wont turn on so you dont trip your breaker...it needs to be switched to 40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 The tub is fullfoamed, Just wondering why wouldn't the 40amp breaker trip if the tub needs more amps? Requiring 50 amps to run the heater and pump at the same time, and only supplying the tub with 40 will not trip the breaker. Ground faults will trip the breaker, and a few other things but underpowering your load will not trip a breaker. It will only underpower your appliance causing it to not function properly (I.E no heater available when pumping on high) But it sounds like 40 amps is correct for your tub. Does the heater work while the pumps are on and your soaking? There should be an indicator to tell you if the heater is working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV tub Guy Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 The tub is fullfoamed, Just wondering why wouldn't the 40amp breaker trip if the tub needs more amps? Requiring 50 amps to run the heater and pump at the same time, and only supplying the tub with 40 will not trip the breaker. Ground faults will trip the breaker, and a few other things but underpowering your load will not trip a breaker. It will only underpower your appliance causing it to not function properly (I.E no heater available when pumping on high) But it sounds like 40 amps is correct for your tub. Does the heater work while the pumps are on and your soaking? There should be an indicator to tell you if the heater is working. The breaker seems to be the answer. I stumbled on to this while looking for an electrical diagram for my tub. I copied this quote from a Jacuzzi manual but I am sure the theory would apply to a Dimension One: "For spas connected to a 40 amp service, jets pump #1 must be set to low speed and jets pump #2 must be turned off to operate the heater." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonw Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 only 40? Wow, ok well thats correct, there are jumpers so if you hook a spa up to 30 when your pumps turn on high your heater wont turn on so you dont trip your breaker...it needs to be switched to 40 I switched the jumper from Low Current to High Current and everything seems to be working good now, not losing any heat. Thanks, for all of the help everyone. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 only 40? Wow, ok well thats correct, there are jumpers so if you hook a spa up to 30 when your pumps turn on high your heater wont turn on so you dont trip your breaker...it needs to be switched to 40 I switched the jumper from Low Current to High Current and everything seems to be working good now, not losing any heat. Thanks, for all of the help everyone. Jason Roger<--------kinda had a feeling 1 post in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonw Posted November 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Alright, I thought I had this problem solved as the heater is now working when the jets are on....... But the tub is still losing heat gradually even with all jets off as soon as the cover is opened the heater can't maintain temperature. It's not windy and it's not that cold out. So my question: Is this normal? Should a 375 Gallon Insulated D1 Tub with a 5.5 Kw Heater @220V 40amp not be able to maintain temperature when it's +10C out with no wind, or is something wrong with this unit. I know people with a Artic Spa Tub the same size and it loses no heat even at -20C out. Any ideas please let me know. Thanks, Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Alright, I thought I had this problem solved as the heater is now working when the jets are on....... But the tub is still losing heat gradually even with all jets off as soon as the cover is opened the heater can't maintain temperature. It's not windy and it's not that cold out. So my question: Is this normal? Should a 375 Gallon Insulated D1 Tub with a 5.5 Kw Heater @220V 40amp not be able to maintain temperature when it's +10C out with no wind, or is something wrong with this unit. I know people with a Artic Spa Tub the same size and it loses no heat even at -20C out. Any ideas please let me know. Thanks, Jason Yes this tub should be able to maintain heat with the cover off, no matter how cold out. Call your dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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