Got-soaked

Don't waste your time with the BBB contact a lawyer and your Attorney General's office. Ask to speak to the Consumer Protection Unit (Fraud Division). If you haven’t already done so, mail a certified letter to the manufacture and dealer documenting your complaint include a copy of the warranty, phone calls,emails, dates, etc. I feel your pain since I’m going through a similar issue. Good luck and don’t give up.

Biggz, I’m not making a judgment on the quality of any ones tub. IMO there is a difference in a poor quality tub versus a poorly insulated tub. But if they did buy a tub which consumes very high energy cost you may want to cut your loses and return the tub or try and reduce the energy consumption. The expense and aggravation of returning a tub is just a moment in time, the high operating cost of a tub will be biting into your wallet for years. As you know there are several posts out there that explain how people have insulated their tub. A thermal blanket is one step to take to help. You have to keep in mind though if you alter the tub you could be voiding the warranty. IMO if there is no or limited insulation in the skirt your savings with a thermal blanket will be minimal. And you are absolutely right my tub is plagued with other operating issues. I believe the other issues are resolvable and wouldn’t concern me if the dealer had a plan to reduce the energy consumption. There are good reasons to buy a thermal blanket i.e., extending the life of your cover and reducing evaporation along with a slight reduction in your energy cost are three of the biggest benefits. If you have a well insulated cover with a thermal blanket and the four sides of your tub along with the bottom isn't insulated the saving will be minimal. And yes, when I bought my LSX1050 Master Spa I was an uneducated consumer who got caught up in the Master Spa tent Sale. I figured that Master Spa couldn’t advertise the operating cost of the tub being a $1 a day if it wasn’t true. There may be a spa company out there that has perfected the thermal pane design but I can tell you that it isn't Master Spa and at $14,000 the tub isn't cheap. If you live in a cold climate and want to save on operating costs go fully insulated. That is why so many of the readers are interested in learning how to better insulate their tubs. With the LSX1050 having so many air gaps in the skirt 101 thermal blankets wouldn’t reduce the energy consumption. Again IMO, if you have a well fitted and insulated cover the savings with a thermal blanket will be minimal. You can’t insulate the top and ignore the 5 other sides of the tub. My agenda is to educate people and let them learn from my mistake. I don’t know how the spas are insulated that are sold by the big box stores. I have visited several major brand spa dealers show rooms to pick their brain and look under the hood so my next spa purchase will be decided by facts and not emotions.

I have a Master Spa LSX1050 and last year the coldest month during the winter it cost me $200 (1800kwh). I live in Delaware so the winters here are pretty mild. My hot tub on the average consumes from 25 KWH per day in the summer to 60KWH per day in the winter. I pay 11 cents per KWH so it cost me anywhere from $2.25 a day in the summer to $6.60 per day in the winter. My highest electric bill was for January 2007 and according to my electric bill the daily average was 42 degrees. The tub is used on the average 30 minutes a day 5 days a week. The LSX1050 is a 2007 model with a new Sunstar (4in to 2in) 2lb foam cover. The tub sits on pavers and is surrounded by a 2 1/2 foot high sitting wall. I have 3 coworkers and each of them own a Hot Springs tub and all three of them say they see a $10 increase of usage in the summer and about $30 in the winter (per/month). There tubs are 1-3 years old and are fully foam insulated. The Master Spa East website states Master Spa's hot tubs are some of the most energy efficient portable spas ever built. You can expect to spend on average $30.00 a month. Actual costs will vary from situation to situation. (Note that the Master Spa website does not explain what conditions they determined the cost of $30 a month). D1 website states at 10 cents a KWH their hot tub will cost you $15.79 per month. Their testing is done with the ambient temperature at 60 degrees, the thermostat set at 104 degrees to maintain the water temperature a minimum of 102. Their tests are based on spa use at 20 minutes every other day with the high speed jets on. My LSX1050 using the same test as above would cost me $100 a month. IMO full foam insulation is the way to go, my experience with Master Spa is the thermal pane design doesn’t work( Master Spa's are energy pigs). There may be a spa company out there that has perfected the thermal pane design, but I can tell you that it isn't Master Spa and at $14,000 the tub isn't cheap. Do your homework, wet test and most of all know what the tub is going to cost you to operate. A poorly insulated tub is going to cost you big bucks to operate.

My recommendation is to return the tub to Costco (cut your loses) and buy a high efficiency tub. Go to a D1 or a Hot Springs dealer and look under the hood on how a quality tub is insulated. IMO, A thermal blanket on a poorly insulated tub is like insulating your attic with R60 insulation and then opening a window in your house. A thermal blanket will help but it won't cut your power consumption in half. All tubs are not made the same. As they say, you can pay me now or you can pay me later. Since I bought a poorly insulated tub a year ago, I have become one educated consumer.

I have a Master Spa LSX1050 and last year the coldest month during the winter it cost me $200 (1800kwh). I live in Delaware so the winters here are pretty mild. My hot tub on the average consumes from 25 KWH per day in the summer to 60KWH per day in the winter. I pay 11 cents per KWH so it cost me anywhere from $2.25 a day in the summer to $6.60 per day in the winter. My highest electric bill was for January 2007 and according to my electric bill the daily average was 42 degrees. The tub is used on the average 30 minutes a day 5 days a week. The LSX1050 is a 2007 model with a new Sunstar (4in to 2in) 2lb foam cover. The tub sits on pavers and is surrounded by a 2 1/2 foot high sitting wall. I have 3 coworkers and each of them own a Hot Springs tub and all three of them say they see a $10 increase of usage in the summer and about $30 in the winter (per/month). There tubs are 1-3 years old and are fully foam insulated. The Master Spa East website states Master Spa's hot tubs are some of the most energy efficient portable spas ever built. You can expect to spend on average $30.00 a month. Actual costs will vary from situation to situation. (Note that the Master Spa website does not explain what conditions they determined the cost of $30 a month). D1 website states at 10 cents a KWH their hot tub will cost you $15.79 per month. Their testing is done with the ambient temperature at 60 degrees, the thermostat set at 104 degrees to maintain the water temperature a minimum of 102. Their tests are based on spa use at 20 minutes every other day with the high speed jets on. My LSX1050 using the same test as above would cost me $100 a month. IMO full foam insulation is the way to go, my experience with Master Spa is the thermal pane design doesn’t work( Master Spa's are energy pigs). There may be a spa company out there that has perfected the thermal pane design, but I can tell you that it isn't Master Spa and at $14,000 the tub isn't cheap. Do your homework, wet test and most of all know what the tub is going to cost you to operate. A poorly insulated tub is going to cost you big bucks to operate.

Dean and Nancy, Thanks for the advice; I didn't see anything on the Delaware govt website. I just called the DELAWARE ATTORNEY GENERAL's office and left them a voice mail asking them to call me. I'll keep you posted. I want to keep this post active and fresh so consumers can learn from my experience. No one should have to go through the nightmare I have experienced with Master Spa East. Again I appreciate you sharing your experience with me.

For $24,000 I could hire the dream team This tub is such an energy pig I would feel bad giving it to my worst enemy. If I loose the case and can’t get my money back I would be better off dragging the tub to the curb and letting the garbage man haul it away and then buy an efficient tub. In 10 years the saving in electricity would more then pay for the LSX1050 and the new tub. ... Brilliant!! But remember, always hot tub responsibly.

No mystery at all. It's all part of Newtons Law of cooling.. The greater the temperature difference the faster the exchange of heat. Assuming you heat your spa to 100 degrees, and it cools to 91 degrees 24 hours later before you turn back on the heat... The system will need to run for less time to bring the temp back up to 100, than it would if it was continually kept at 100 degrees.... hmmmmmmm, maybe the savings isn't all that small, eh Roger? Dr. Spa, You are supporting my argument that the Master Spa LSX1050 is an energy pig. Losing 9 degrees in 24 hours and monthly KW usage between 1000 - 2000 kW is crazy. Either Master Spa doesn’t sell many LSX1050 or owners of them don't mind spending $100 - $250 a month heating their hot tub. I can't speak for others but I rather take this company to court, pay a few thousand $$ up front and cut my losses and buy a D1, Marquis or Hot Springs. This way the next 10 years of owning a high efficiency tub will pay for itself along with lawyer fees it cost to take Master Spa East to court. Right now every time a get my electric bill I go bonkers.

Dr. Spa, The URL for Master Spa East is .... www.hottuboasis.com

Bookedup, Congrats!! You have a well insulated tub and low electric rates to boot. You gotta love it I'm running some test on my LSX1050 getting ready to take my Master Spa dealer to court. This LSX1050 tub is less the 4 weeks old, the spa dealer already replaced the first tub because I proved to them the tub was an energy pig. The electrical consumption on the replacement tub is just as outrageous as the first. Stay away from thermal “pain” tubs, go full insulation. The owner of Master Spa East sent me an email stating he will no longer honor the warrenty or service the tub that energy consumption isn't a problem he is going to deal with. Here are my findings: With the power to the tub on and set at 102 degrees and filter cycle turned off it uses 34 KWH per day With the power to the tub on and set at 80 degrees and the filter cycle turned off it uses 22 KWH per day Ambient temperature for the above test ranged from 38 degrees low to 57 degrees as the high. Cover was never removed during the test and note the filter cycle has been turned off) With the hot tub water at 80 degrees and unplugged for 24 hours and cover (new Sunstar cover 2 lb foam) never removed the tub lost 9 degrees within 24 hours. Here is the mystery; if the tub dropped 9 degrees in 24 hours you would think the 5.5kw heater would run 2 hours out of 24 to maintain 80 degrees. Why I'm I seeing the kwh usage at 22 and not at 13kwh? I'm thinking the heater is going on and off and isn't as efficient as if it stayed on an hour at a time hence the 22kwh to maintain the water temperature at 80 degrees. I'm not sure what the power draw is for the circulation pump and ozanator (sp) is but it has to be minimal. Got-Soaked

Parrothead, Let us know how the D1 Amore wet test goes and what you liked or disliked. My local D1 dealer is waiting to get his D1 Amore manufactured and delivered. I'm interested in knowing if the jets are powerful.

DeanandNancy, Thank you so much for sharing your success story with me. I'm so happy for you. I have faxed the credit card company the dispute against Master Spa East. The dispute contains 40 pages of e-mails along with other documentation. 90% of the communication with Master Spa East was in email since the owner of Master Sap East wouldn't return any of my phone calls. I heard that the BBB is a waste of time so I'm not even going to attempt to go that route. I have started my search for an attorney just in case this has to go to court. This nightmare has been going on for a year now. Master Spa East had great customer service until they got my money and then I was on my own. The day the spa was delivered (by a contactor) no one from Master Spa East was onsite to inspect the tub or to show you how it worked. They dropped the tub off and left. I called Master Spa East that day and told them the spa was damaged, they told me not to worry it is common for the tubs to be damaged on delivery and they would repair it. A year latter I have tub that is leaking water somewhere under the foam insulation along with a host of other issues. I have to believe that hot tub business must be one of the least regulated industries in the USA. I bought my tub from Master Spa East and the owner has been bad-mannered and hung the phone up on me on several occasions. The owner of Master Spa East states he has nothing to do with “his” website making the claim that Master Spa's hot tubs are some of the most energy efficient portable spas ever built. Master Spa East website goes on to state you can expect to spend on average $30.00 a month. The coldest month I spen $280 dollars ti run my spa... $280 ...ouch!! This is robery without being armed. Even In the summertime with my tub set at 80 degrees I can’t get it to a dollar a day. The owner of Master Spa East states he has nothing to do with "his" website making the claim that Master Spa's hot tubs are some of the most energy efficient portable spas ever built. Master Spa East website goes on to state you can expect to spend on average $30.00 a month. In the summertime with my tub set at 80 I can’t get it to a dollar a day. The owner of Master Spa East now refuses to honor the warranty or service the tub. He sent me an email stating he will no longer return my calls or respond to any emails. I have filed a dispute with the credit card company against the merchant and currently waiting to hear back from them.

My saga continues with Master Spa East; I emailed the owner of Master Spa East telling him I wanted to return my 4 week old LSX1050 because of the very high energy usage (the spa pvc pipes are leaking and the filter doesn’t work and there are numerous other issues that I won’t bore you with). At first the owner emailed me and told my he would give me $10k for the tub (which is $4K less then I paid for it). When I responded telling him to make it $11K and he has a deal he retracted the offer altogether. He told me the statement on his Master Spa website stating Master Spa cost about $1 a day is not his statement and he has nothing to do about energy consumption of the tub. He also emailed me stating he will not honor the 4 week old tubs warranty and that he will not service the tub. He said I need to call the factory. So now I have a 4 week old $14K tub that leaks water and is an energy pig. What a nightmare it has been dealing with Master Spa East. I’m now interviewing lawyers that specialize in the lemon law. Got-soaked

RickJ - I'm confused by your two posts 1) states your electric consumption jumped from 15KW to 30KW per day the other states your electric bill jumped $100-150. 15kw a day equates to 450kw per month. Are you paying 33 cents per KWH? $150 divided by 450kw = .33 What I’m I misunderstanding?

Master Spa owners, have you monitored your electric bill and have you noticed a substantial increase in electric consumption $$$ since you powered-up your master spa? My neighbor and I both own Master spas, I have the LSX1050 and he has a smaller model that is 7ft X 7ft. He has his electric bill averaged over a year and makes the same dollar payment every month and over the last 10 months since he owned the tub hasn’t noticed his bill increase. I told him about my electric bill doubling and now he is interested in placing a kilowatt meter on his spa’s breaker. I told him to look at the electric bill at the KW usage and not the dollar amount. I have to agree, Master has some very strong pumps the LED lights and radio setups are very nice, and the seats are comfortable, The jest are difficult to turn on or off if not impossible but The BIG negative is the huge power consumption $$$ along with the flimsy sides of the spa. My Master spa dealer agreed to replace my first tub because of the numerous issues the tub had, the main issue being the power consumption. The new tub arrived two weeks ago with a new cover that has 2 pound foam (very nice cover) and the sides are so flimsy the cover now pulls the side panels out of place. I have been monitoring the power consumption and this tub is about the same, to date I have been averaging 25 KW per day which equates to 75KW per month. I live in Delaware so the winters aren’t extremely cold and to date has been in the 60-80 during the day and dropping to 55-65 during the nights. My other tub doubled my electric bill during the winter months and I was paying $200 - $280 to heat my hot tub. The first tub could not maintain 102 degrees in 30 degree temperature. And yes, the tub sits on pavers, protected by a 2.5ft sitting wall and the heater was on rock and roll (so was the electric meter). Since my new replacement tub has several water leaks, skirt being separated by the weight of the cover along with the tub being an energy pig I have asked the dealer if I could return the tub and get a refund. Remember, I have had this tub for 17 days and it is another lemon. The Carlstadt GTI build team met at Carlstadt last week for a line by line review of the detailed deployment plan. The developing of the plan is approximately 90% complete. Within the next two weeks GTI will be in a position to share with IB the deployment dates for RMDS and CBB. And yes, both my neighbor and I bought the tub at a local tent expo (expo? Master spa was the only dealer) and at the time was an uneducated spa consumer. I currently waiting on the Master Spa dealer to see if they will honor my request for a full refund. The dealer said he is passing the request onto Master Spa and will get back to me, that was 5 days ago. I‘ll keep you posted.