New Tub Insulated And Installed

[GG72]

Thank you to everyone for the great information on this site - I've learned a lot thanks to you all and it's helped me get a better handle on this hot tub business. After looking at heaps of new and used tubs and given our requirements, budget, and space we decided on a Gulf Coast LX5000 and added extra insulation to hopefully help lower our electricity costs.

I thought I would post a few pics in case anyone wanted to see how I did the insulating - I'm not an expert nor claim this to be the best method but maybe someone can learn from my experience/mistakes.

Had to take apart a good portion of my deck to fit it in, fortunately there was already a mostly level concrete pad underneath:

I insulated using Roxul, mostly for its resistance to moisture and also because it was rigid enough to stay in place between the tub's frame. I cut pieces to size and with the 4 side panels off I placed them wherever I could - against the wall only so there is still an "air pocket" inside. In some spots I had to thin the insulation to fit where tubing or pumps/blowers were close to the shell. I also wanted to made sure it wasn't too close to the pump and blower so they didn't over-heat or get insulation caught in the them:

Insulation ready for foil bubble wrap layer to be re-stapled back on:

All packed up ready for the panel to be re-installed (I had to remove the water tap to allow my coverlifter to work properly, the silver tube is my dryer exhaust):

Deck put back together and tub full of warm water! (I built a trap door that isn't easy to see in this photo to allow for servicing should I need it *crosses fingers*)

So far my wife and I (and friends) have enjoyed the tub immensely, we've used it every day for the 2 1/2 weeks since we got it and we've had no problems with it. I don't have anything to compare my electricity bills against but I think my $27 investment in insulation can't lose. I finally got the water levels perfect - my GC dealer wasn't much help ("You'll get the hang of it" ???), but the local pool store was fantastic and way more knowledgable about water chemistry and products so they'll get my chemical sales.

Thanks again for the information!

GG

[Roger]

Thank you to everyone for the great information on this site - I've learned a lot thanks to you all and it's helped me get a better handle on this hot tub business. After looking at heaps of new and used tubs and given our requirements, budget, and space we decided on a Gulf Coast LX5000 and added extra insulation to hopefully help lower our electricity costs.

I thought I would post a few pics in case anyone wanted to see how I did the insulating - I'm not an expert nor claim this to be the best method but maybe someone can learn from my experience/mistakes.

I insulated using Roxul, mostly for its resistance to moisture and also because it was rigid enough to stay in place between the tub's frame. I cut pieces to size and with the 4 side panels off I placed them wherever I could - against the wall only so there is still an "air pocket" inside. In some spots I had to thin the insulation to fit where tubing or pumps/blowers were close to the shell. I also wanted to made sure it wasn't too close to the pump and blower so they didn't over-heat or get insulation caught in the them:

So far my wife and I (and friends) have enjoyed the tub immensely, we've used it every day for the 2 1/2 weeks since we got it and we've had no problems with it. I don't have anything to compare my electricity bills against but I think my $27 investment in insulation can't lose. I finally got the water levels perfect - my GC dealer wasn't much help ("You'll get the hang of it" ???), but the local pool store was fantastic and way more knowledgable about water chemistry and products so they'll get my chemical sales.

Thanks again for the information!

GG

Good job...welcome to spatopia.

Make sure to supply adequete venting of your equipment in the hotter months.

[GG72]

Good job...welcome to spatopia.

Make sure to supply adequete venting of your equipment in the hotter months.

Thanks Roger.... do you know the temperature limits or suspected maximums of hot tub equipment?

[TinyBubbles]

Way to go! Looks like you did a great job. I think you could be a real asset around here. I considered a gulf coast spa but there was nobody around that had one. Boy, I would have loved to talk to you. So, even though you'll be busy enjoy your beautiful new spa, stop in from time to time. Also, I'd love to see pics of it up and running.

[Roger]

Good job...welcome to spatopia.

Make sure to supply adequete venting of your equipment in the hotter months.

Thanks Roger.... do you know the temperature limits or suspected maximums of hot tub equipment?

When I did the modifications to the insulation on my tub a few years back (closer to 6) I made sure the temperature inside the cabinet air space did not exceed 120 degrees. I did this by using a louvered damper and ducting system that would open in when the adjustable thermostaticly controlled inline 12V fan kicked on or the air blower called for air. The duct was directed across the pump motor. On the oppisite side of the cabinet there was another gravity damper that opened out to exhaust hot air. Everything I used was available at Grainger. When the dampers are closed the seal almost air tight.

The motor manufacturers will give you differing information on the maximum temp threshold of there motors but.....the cooler they operate the more effiecient and longer lasting they will be.

[GG72]

When I did the modifications to the insulation on my tub a few years back (closer to 6) I made sure the temperature inside the cabinet air space did not exceed 120 degrees. I did this by using a louvered damper and ducting system that would open in when the adjustable thermostaticly controlled inline 12V fan kicked on or the air blower called for air. The duct was directed across the pump motor. On the oppisite side of the cabinet there was another gravity damper that opened out to exhaust hot air. Everything I used was available at Grainger. When the dampers are closed the seal almost air tight.

The motor manufacturers will give you differing information on the maximum temp threshold of there motors but.....the cooler they operate the more effiecient and longer lasting they will be.

Ahh yes, I remember reading your post about how you did that when I was researching insulation and thinking that was very impressive. I will definitely investigate my cabinet temperature after the winter when warmer temperatures return. It seems like a catch-22 with trying to re-use the heat from the system while trying not to overheat it at the same time.

Do you have any idea how often your fan turns on? are you in a warm or cold climate?

[Bookedup]

GG72,

VERY NIVE JOB! I'm adding some insulation next week. Hope you don't nmind a few questions. Did you get the Roxul at Home Depot, if not where? Does this insulation have a shiny face? In one picture it appears it does but on another it does not. Did you put it on the floor of the structure also? It looks like it is self supporting inside the skirt. I thought I might have to glue mine to the skirt peices I removed for access. Yours appears to be a much cleaner install. I'm thinking on doing three sides of the spa and the floor and leaving the front (where all the innards reside) alone for proper breathability. My spa doesn't have any louvers that open in the summer or any different panals I can install in the summer. It only has two slote at the top of the skirt peice to breath. I'm not very mechanically inclined so going to Grainger and getting fans, ect probably won't work for me.

Any advice from those who have been down this road before is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Bookedup.

[Dr. Spa]

Looks nice, very nice. One thing though, you might want to inquire about the cover. The skirt seems to not be attached at the center of the cover (about 1"-2" near the hinge). I can see that it's already starting to sag, and it shouldn't be this way. Can't really tell it this was an oversight, an error in manufacturing, or a production shortcut, but it's not right.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Looks nice, very nice. One thing though, you might want to inquire about the cover. The skirt seems to not be attached at the center of the cover (about 1"-2" near the hinge). I can see that it's already starting to sag, and it shouldn't be this way. Can't really tell it this was an oversight, an error in manufacturing, or a production shortcut, but it's not right.

It looks to me like maybe they sewed the skirt pices on upside-down.

[GG72]

GG72,

VERY NIVE JOB! I'm adding some insulation next week. Hope you don't nmind a few questions. Did you get the Roxul at Home Depot, if not where? Does this insulation have a shiny face? In one picture it appears it does but on another it does not. Did you put it on the floor of the structure also? It looks like it is self supporting inside the skirt. I thought I might have to glue mine to the skirt peices I removed for access. Yours appears to be a much cleaner install. I'm thinking on doing three sides of the spa and the floor and leaving the front (where all the innards reside) alone for proper breathability. My spa doesn't have any louvers that open in the summer or any different panals I can install in the summer. It only has two slote at the top of the skirt peice to breath. I'm not very mechanically inclined so going to Grainger and getting fans, ect probably won't work for me.

Any advice from those who have been down this road before is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Bookedup.

Don't mind questions at all - I love talking about hot tubs now (as my wife is surely sick of) haha

I got the Roxul at a RONA store - a Canadian building supply chain, I called 3 other places locally and they all had it, I'm not sure if HD in the US has it but I'd suggest visiting here: http://www.roxul.com/sw34444.asp or calling a HD store. It comes in 16" and 24" widths as well as 4" and 6" thicknesses (to fit in standard construction framing) - I went with 24" x 4". The insulation doesn't have a shiny face, I think you might be seeing the foil bubble insulation that Gulf Coast uses.

I didn't insulate the floor because my rationale was that heat rises, the floor already had foam insulation (albeit rather thin), and I wanted to leave some air space to allow an air pocket to exist inside. Maybe your tub has more room inside?

I actually didn't insulate the center of the front panel where the electronics are - the same as you have planned. There wasn't really much room to do it and I didn't feel right about placing insulation in the comparment right against all those electrical pieces that generate heat.... I insulated up to the hard plastic compartment that houses those parts, but not inside it - wish I had taken a photo of that.

[Roger]

Looks nice, very nice. One thing though, you might want to inquire about the cover. The skirt seems to not be attached at the center of the cover (about 1"-2" near the hinge). I can see that it's already starting to sag, and it shouldn't be this way. Can't really tell it this was an oversight, an error in manufacturing, or a production shortcut, but it's not right.

The cover is more important than the insulation. With a quality cover you will save as much as you will by modifying insulation. Good eye Doc.

And yes heat does rise but more importantly it radiats to cold, no matter the direction.

[GG72]

Looks nice, very nice. One thing though, you might want to inquire about the cover. The skirt seems to not be attached at the center of the cover (about 1"-2" near the hinge). I can see that it's already starting to sag, and it shouldn't be this way. Can't really tell it this was an oversight, an error in manufacturing, or a production shortcut, but it's not right.

Hmmm I assumed it was manufactured that way - thanks for pointing that out.... I will check with my dealer and ask to see other covers.

It's a Prestige Spa Cover and unfortunately their website doesn't have any photos of their products to check what it should look like. I did find this site: http://www.poolandspa.com/catalog/product000658000004.cfm that has some photos of a Prestige cover, not exactly the same model but it's very similar - I guess mine has a piece cut off at an angle... to allow the cover-skirt to unfold better I can only guess??? It has stitching around the edges so I'm also assuming it was intended to be like that? I'm very curious now......

[tsand]

GG72,

VERY NIVE JOB! I'm adding some insulation next week. Hope you don't nmind a few questions. Did you get the Roxul at Home Depot, if not where? Does this insulation have a shiny face? In one picture it appears it does but on another it does not. Did you put it on the floor of the structure also? It looks like it is self supporting inside the skirt. I thought I might have to glue mine to the skirt peices I removed for access. Yours appears to be a much cleaner install. I'm thinking on doing three sides of the spa and the floor and leaving the front (where all the innards reside) alone for proper breathability. My spa doesn't have any louvers that open in the summer or any different panals I can install in the summer. It only has two slote at the top of the skirt peice to breath. I'm not very mechanically inclined so going to Grainger and getting fans, ect probably won't work for me.

Any advice from those who have been down this road before is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Bookedup.

Don't mind questions at all - I love talking about hot tubs now (as my wife is surely sick of) haha

I got the Roxul at a RONA store - a Canadian building supply chain, I called 3 other places locally and they all had it, I'm not sure if HD in the US has it but I'd suggest visiting here: http://www.roxul.com/sw34444.asp or calling a HD store. It comes in 16" and 24" widths as well as 4" and 6" thicknesses (to fit in standard construction framing) - I went with 24" x 4". The insulation doesn't have a shiny face, I think you might be seeing the foil bubble insulation that Gulf Coast uses.

I didn't insulate the floor because my rationale was that heat rises, the floor already had foam insulation (albeit rather thin), and I wanted to leave some air space to allow an air pocket to exist inside. Maybe your tub has more room inside?

I actually didn't insulate the center of the front panel where the electronics are - the same as you have planned. There wasn't really much room to do it and I didn't feel right about placing insulation in the comparment right against all those electrical pieces that generate heat.... I insulated up to the hard plastic compartment that houses those parts, but not inside it - wish I had taken a photo of that.

This looks like a very well thought out installation. Lots of work taking apart the deck, then reassembly so you definately has some serious carpentry skills.

I don't want to appear to be criticizing your efforts, but since you have this experience under your belt, I thought I would ask did you consider open or closed cell "liquid" blown in insulation?

I frequently watch "Holmes on Homes" and he uses a contractor of a blown in type of insulation sold in Canada as "Insta-Insulation" (please note that I have no commercial interests in this product or company). In the US there are several types and brands of similar products.

Can anyone tell us if the blown in insulation is reasonable product or an alternative to the Roxul used in this installation.

If so, what can and can't be sprayed (valves, electronics, pumps etc.)

Thanks

Tsand

[deepchillie]

I was chatting with a buddy about insulating my hot tub and he told me I should insulate EVERY PIPE THAT MOVES WATER! And I said, "thats a **** load of pipes in a hot tub"! He mentioned something about efficiency and a bunch of other things that made sense at the time, but I have since forgot. He told me to get those black plastic foam pipe insulators (they come in many different sizes) and zip-tie them ALL! I looked for a link to show you the stuff he was taking about, but couldnt find a good one. He sent me this link too------> http://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/elibrary/elibrary700.html

[mark2550]

It looks like it was nicely done give us some updates on total daily use and increase of electrical bill. I think you have a winner!!!

[Bookedup]

GG72, Thanks for all your helpful advice. I did purchase my Roxul insulation today. Can you tell me, did you use any glue to attach to inside if skirt panels? It doesn't appear so. Did it stand up on it's own inside the spa? If not, what did you use to support it? I see a staple gun in one of your photos, did you use that, at all? I'm looking for any and all advice prior to taking the project on.

Thanks in advance,

Bookedup

[Got-soaked]

GG72, Thanks for all your helpful advice. I did purchase my Roxul insulation today. Can you tell me, did you use any glue to attach to inside if skirt panels? It doesn't appear so. Did it stand up on it's own inside the spa? If not, what did you use to support it? I see a staple gun in one of your photos, did you use that, at all? I'm looking for any and all advice prior to taking the project on.

Thanks in advance,

Bookedup

Where did you buy the Roxul and what Roxul product did you purchase? The Roxul regional distributor for my area said he wouldn't recommend any of their products distributed in the USA for a hot tub because the insulation is made of fibers that can get sucked into the air intake and get discharged into the spa water. Roxul is a Candian based company and they do have a product the sell and distribute in Canada that looks like the fibers would be contained.

Has anyone monitored their hot tub power consumption with a Kilowatt meter and quantified what is the save when insulating a tub?

I’m in disparate need to do something with my Master Spa LSX1050 which is an energy pig. I proved to the Master Spa dealer my LSX1050 was using 25 -50+ KWH per day and at 13cents per KWH comes to $100 to 200 per month with the highest usage hitting $280 for last January’s bill. The Master Spa dealer replaced the tub this month (Nov 07) and the new tub is consuming the identical power. Master Spa does not use the full foam insulating method the use the thermal pain method and then they place vents in the side panels with holes in each of the base corners. The slightest breeze sucks the heat right out of the skirt and the 5.5KW heater kicks in and the electric meter starts spinning.

[Bookedup]

got-Soaked,

I purchased my Roxul in Erie, Pa. (12th Street). I haven;t heard anything about fibers going into the air intakes but my product looks the same as what is pictured in this thread. What you say, does make sense. now i'm a little worried. Any other comments out there on the subject?

Thanx,

[GG72]

GG72, Thanks for all your helpful advice. I did purchase my Roxul insulation today. Can you tell me, did you use any glue to attach to inside if skirt panels? It doesn't appear so. Did it stand up on it's own inside the spa? If not, what did you use to support it? I see a staple gun in one of your photos, did you use that, at all? I'm looking for any and all advice prior to taking the project on.

The insulation stood up on its own and was cut to fit snug between the wooden frame pieces, in several spots it rested against plumbing pieces. It would be easy to staple an edge or 2 to the wooden frame if you're concerned about keeping it in place (the staple gun in my photos was used to re-attached the bubble foil wrap before mounting the cabinet pieces back on).

I'm pretty sure I remember someone write that they installed strapping on the inside of the insulation in their tub - I didn't feel that I needed it in my smaller tub.

[Got-soaked]

I love the idea of adding batt insulation, batt insulation allows you the flexibility to add and remove insulation as needed.

My concern with fiber insulation over foam is:

1) When the fiber gets damp from humidity does it loose it R-value?

2) It attract rodents for nesting

3) Will the fiber get sucked into the air intake and discharged into the water

My concern with Foam Insulation over fiber:

1) Foam is messy to install

2) foams cost more then batt fiber insulation

3) No way to adjust insulation with the change in temperature

4) No way to remove the foam if tub component fails and technician determines the hot tub warranty is void because of alterations

For those considering the purchase of a hot tub, make sure the hot tub is insulated properly or you will be dealing with the same issue. We all work hard on negotiating the best price on a hut tub but once you have the tub and it is cost you $100s of dollars a month to run you forget about the good deal on the purchase price.

[spa4me?]

Nice job on the insulation. I was to lazy to track down roxul in my area so I used a different approach. I cannot say weather or not I recommend it yet, but I just wanted to contribute something to the discussion.

I brought a roll of standard fiberglass insulation (R-11)and a couple of boxes of trash bags with twist ties. I stuffed about two feet of insulation into each trash bag and closed the top with twist ties. I figure this will help make the insulation moisture resistant and also prevent any loose fiberglass particles from being sucked into the motor. I also brought a couple of sheet of 1/2 inch pink foam board insulation and two types of tape; double sided sticky tape and foil heating duct tape.

I cut the foam board to fit the side panels of the tub and used the double sided sticky tape to hold the foam boards in place. I could not place the foam board at the very top of the panel as it made the panel to thick to reinstall. I also installed the foam board on the floor of the tub in any area I could and place it underneath any tubing that was in contact with the floor. I stuffed the insulation filled trash bags everywhere I could fit them except near pumps and heater. I wanted to have a nice solid wall of insulation, but it turned out that is was not possible due to the some of the plumbing jutting out very close to the side panels. I then used the foil tape to seal the factory bubble foil wrap insulation back (I had to cut it to do the above work) and I also taped the bubble foil insulation to the bottom of the tub try to creat a more airtight seal. Then I reinstalled the panels.

All the materials I used can be found a the local hardware chain. I would be cool to have t thermal imaging camera to see what the tub would look like. I might have just created a bunch of hot zones(where i stuffed the insulation) and cold spots (the weakly insulated area) in the tub

[Got-soaked]

I like your approach because it can be removed during the hotter months of the year and the plastic bags will protects the batt insulation from moisture and loosing it’s R value Let me know how much it reduces your electric consumption.

Thanks for sharing and good luck.

[Voice]

Nice job on the insulation. I was to lazy to track down roxul in my area so I used a different approach. I cannot say weather or not I recommend it yet, but I just wanted to contribute something to the discussion.

I brought a roll of standard fiberglass insulation (R-11)and a couple of boxes of trash bags with twist ties. I stuffed about two feet of insulation into each trash bag and closed the top with twist ties. I figure this will help make the insulation moisture resistant and also prevent any loose fiberglass particles from being sucked into the motor. I also brought a couple of sheet of 1/2 inch pink foam board insulation and two types of tape; double sided sticky tape and foil heating duct tape.

I cut the foam board to fit the side panels of the tub and used the double sided sticky tape to hold the foam boards in place. I could not place the foam board at the very top of the panel as it made the panel to thick to reinstall. I also installed the foam board on the floor of the tub in any area I could and place it underneath any tubing that was in contact with the floor. I stuffed the insulation filled trash bags everywhere I could fit them except near pumps and heater. I wanted to have a nice solid wall of insulation, but it turned out that is was not possible due to the some of the plumbing jutting out very close to the side panels. I then used the foil tape to seal the factory bubble foil wrap insulation back (I had to cut it to do the above work) and I also taped the bubble foil insulation to the bottom of the tub try to creat a more airtight seal. Then I reinstalled the panels.

All the materials I used can be found a the local hardware chain. I would be cool to have t thermal imaging camera to see what the tub would look like. I might have just created a bunch of hot zones(where i stuffed the insulation) and cold spots (the weakly insulated area) in the tub

please use caution when using rigid foam as insulation in areas which retain alot of heat or have a risk of fire issues. Rigid foam will burn very quickly and as per building codes in houses, MUST be covered when being used. you need to make sure there is a fire stop between the heat and the rigid foam.....Looking at hot tubs it doesn't seem to be as much of an issue, but it's just a thought to consider.

Roxul itself will actually work as a fire stop, and has a burn time of 1-2 hours

hope this helps

[Boute]

I was chatting with a buddy about insulating my hot tub and he told me I should insulate EVERY PIPE THAT MOVES WATER! And I said, "thats a **** load of pipes in a hot tub"! He mentioned something about efficiency and a bunch of other things that made sense at the time, but I have since forgot. He told me to get those black plastic foam pipe insulators (they come in many different sizes) and zip-tie them ALL! I looked for a link to show you the stuff he was taking about, but couldnt find a good one. He sent me this link too------> http://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/elibrary/elibrary700.html

I was thinking on doing just that too. Once I get my spas I will have a look on the plumbing. This pipe insulating would help not only in the winter to minimize the heat lost but in the summer preventing heat transfer or build up inside the cabinet.

We use this product Armaflex in the refrigeration systems. It come in deferent ID and wall thickness also available in sheets. You can get it seamless or with a self adhesive. It withstand any moisture. Here is a link.

http://www.a-f-insulation.com/documentView...oam-Armaflex-SS

Oh by the way GG72, nice job on your insulation and congradulation on your new purchase.

[allnight33]

Wow,

I've been looking for talk on this topic and looks like I found the jackpot here! I also have an LX5000 GCS and don't want to scare you, but w/o added insulation the electric bill is nasty. I'm looking to do exactly the same insulation setup tomorrow in hopes to reduce my elec. bill. I live in Ohio, so the weather can get pretty cold in the winter. I wanted to thank everyone for there input and had one question that hopefully someone has not already answered and I maybe I overlooked it.

Has anyone tried to put that reflective bubble foil insulation on the bottom of there hot tub cover so that the "reflective" side faced the water?

Thanks again all for the info!