New Jetsetter Water Temp Creeps Up

[Sundancer01]

Good morning (7:45 am on the East Coast)

This is in the wrong Category but I couldn't find the correct one.  

We had a new Hot Springs Jetsetter delivered and setup mid-Sept.  From the beginning I have had an issue where the temp creeps up when the jets are on.  The Set Temp is 97/98 degrees and we have seen the Controller show 106.  This is with the Cover on.

The Tub is on a Deck, 1" between the Floor Planks, 2 walls are only partial with screening, and 1 as a full screen.  Only 1 Wall is full.

This is for both privacy and keep bugs out.  I am including this as they are trying to 'blame' the partial enclosure.

Wife saw 104 while in it.  I asked her if she boiled eggs while in it.  Lolol

I have been trying to work with local Support Tech but there appears to be more interest in deflecting the issue than addressing it.

I welcome your thoughts

Steve

(Can provide pictures if that helps)

Edited October 28, 2023 by Sundancer01
Added 'Hot Springs' for clarity

[waterbear]

1 hour ago, Sundancer01 said:

This is in the wrong Category but I couldn't find the correct one.  

You are in the right category. My expertise is water chemistry, not hardware but @RDspaguy and  @CanadianSpaTech should be able to provide some insight.

[Sundancer01]

👍

[Sundancer01]

Additional info..

Right now it is in the high 60's with little breeze.

Set Temp was lowered to 95 degrees from 98.  In 2 hrs, with cover closed, water temp was up to 103.

S..

[CanadianSpaTech]

3 hours ago, Sundancer01 said:

In 2 hrs, with cover closed, water temp was up to 103.

Was the spa water actually 103 tested with a thermometer? 

Was the spa running a filter cycle during the time the cover was closed?

Was the heat indicator led on at all during that time? if set at 95 and below display temp of 98 it should not come on.

Cool the water down to 98 again and set it at 95 as before but open the front panel a bit to let fresh cool air in and see if you get the same results as before.

If you cycled the main power off/on just prior to your first test do it again. 

6 hours ago, Sundancer01 said:

issue where the temp creeps up when the jets are on.

How long were the pumps running for? a pump will generate upwards of 140 degrees when running and can elevate the water temp above set point from the inside. I can see what they are saying and this can happen if there is not enough air flow to cool the pumps. Normally a summer problem but I have seen spas overheat due to their location and blocked air flow. A lot of the internal heat is released along the top edge of the spa between the acrylic and the side panels. Heat rises. Spas sunken into decks right up to the acrylic can block air flow/release as well. Some folks will use a cover cap and they can also block heat release/air flow but rare in the cooler months.

[Sundancer01]

CanadianSpaTech....

Lots of questions but I will go thru them and respond as I get data.

As for a couple:

No, temp wasn't tested with a Thermometer.  I relied on the Control Display and how uncomfortable I was getting.

I did cycle the power off/on.  No help.

Filter cycle..  the Jets were on for their programmed time.  They are either on or off.

More answers to come along with pictures.

Thank you

Steve

[Sundancer01]

[Sundancer01]

The open areas on the sides are gazebo screening, just to keep the bugs out.

I am running the 95 degree test now..

S

[Sundancer01]

Update

One hour into the default Jet Pump On-Cycle (2 hours) from 95 degrees.  

Up 2 degrees from 95 to 97.  Half of the Cover is off and Tub is not buried in the Deck, as the picture shows.

S

[Sundancer01]

Final Tub temp 99.  Outside temp is <80 degrees.

Four degree rise with 2 of the 4 air zones turned on, half the Cover off, cool-ish outside temperature.

If we had started at 97/98/99, we would be very uncomfortable very fast.

Tomorrow might retry this test but with the temp turned off (summer setting).

S

[CanadianSpaTech]

Would help to know if the actual water temp matches the display using a thermometer. Is the heat indicator on/off during this period?

I would test the heater for power when the heat indicator is off and see if there is a stuck relay.

Ohm test the sensors and make sure they are in range. 

After the pumps have been running for a bit see if you can hold your hand on the motor. It will be hot but should not be untouchable.

Post photos of the topside the control system the circuit board and the schematic on the inside cover if there is one.

Nice set up and should not have air flow issues.

Remove filters during testing. Anytime you have any issues with the spa always remove them and take them out of the equation. New used just cleaned no matter remove them. Dirty filters (even though they look clean) are a flow killer. They will slow the flow of water going through the heater and across the sensors and can cause issue.

[Sundancer01]

CST

Thank you for your questions and advice.  Your suggestion to test the Sensors are out of my experience and skillset.  I am hoping the Service Tech comes by this week.  

I was in it early this morning for an hour (still dark outside).  Set Temp is at 95.  At 11:00 I started testing:

11:00
Summer timer on
Set Temp 95°/Console showing 97° 
Test Thermo 96.5°/Test Thermo is more exact (a people fever thermo) and tracks with the Console 
2 Jets on low 70's air temp

Two hours later the temp was 101.

Tub is off.  Summer setting is off.  Cover is half off.  Once it cools down, I will retest without the Filters as you suggest.

You mentioned 'heat indicator' a few times.  If that is the lit Emblem on the Service Panel, it tracks.  Green on when it is in range, off when it isn't.

Steve

[Sundancer01]

Update

Redid the test

Summer Schedule on

Filters removed

Air temp approx 80°

Cover half off.

Temp still rose 2°

[castletonia]

On 10/28/2023 at 2:59 PM, Sundancer01 said:

CanadianSpaTech....

Lots of questions but I will go thru them and respond as I get data.

As for a couple:

No, temp wasn't tested with a Thermometer.  I relied on the Control Display and how uncomfortable I was getting.

I did cycle the power off/on.  No help.

Filter cycle..  the Jets were on for their programmed time.  They are either on or off.

More answers to come along with pictures.

Thank you

Steve

What do you mean jets were on for their programmed time?  Highlife Hot Spring don't have preset filter cycles.  Circulation pump runs 24/7 unless summer timer is activated, in which the circulation pump turns off for 8 hours a day.  The jet pump only runs when you want the jets on.  If you turn the pump on and don't turn it off, it will run for 2 hours before shutting off.  Clean cycle will turn the pump off after 10 minutes.

Hot Spring vents the exhaust from the pump back into the insulation which essentially recycles the heat.  I was a Hot Spring dealer from 2017-2022.  I had a customer constantly complain about increased water temp so I did a test on my showroom Grandee.  With the cover closed and the jet pumps running for the full 2 hour cycle, the water temp went from 100 to 109 degrees.  This was in a showroom with an air temp of approximately 65 degrees.  There were windows behind the hot tub on the south and the east for reference.

 

 

[Sundancer01]

Castletonia

Good morning.

This is exactly what is happening.  So far we have seen a high of 106 which is way too high for us.  I can't imagine what 109 feels like..

Now if we start at 98 or 99, there is very little leaway before it gets too hot.  In winter, it might be ok, but definitely not during any other season.  

So it sounds like there aren't any options other than limiting the time that the Jet Pump is on (especially in the warmer months).  This is really disappointing and a potential show-stopper for recommending Hot Springs..

A thought..  Can the Jet Pump heat be actively removed (fan??) rather than rely on convection?

S

[castletonia]

I guess I’m a little confused here.  If the jet pump is only used when you are in the hot tub, say 20-30 minutes, temp should only increase maybe 1-2 degrees max.  Then once the pump is off, no more temp increase.  
 

I guess if you are really feeling motivated, take off the front door and remove the pump vent shroud from the back of the motor.  Then all the warm air from the motor will just exhaust into the air inside the equipment area and not be recycled back into the hot tub.

[Sundancer01]

Castletonia

That's the problem with these forums.  So many details not included.

I often go in early in the morning for about an hour (watching YouTube videos....).  I close the Tub up and might leave it on.  My wife will go in afterwards, now it's 'pre-heated' and the temp continues to climb.  

As to this shroud..  Will it be obvious?  I will take a look tomorrow.  From this Forums help, I am not expecting the local Tech to (be able to) do anything.  I could do this mod once the weather goes back warm.

[castletonia]

If you remove the access door, find the jet pump.  On the back of it you will see the shroud (looks like a dryer vent).  It is held onto the back of the motor with a zip tie.  you can probably wiggle it off without even cutting the zip tie.  Then just move it away from the back of the motor.  

[Sundancer01]

Gotcha.  Will take a look.

Small update.  Average air temp was <50° yesterday.  Water temp stayed at 98.  I could feel the Heater cycling on/off.

Same for today.  I am going to retest with the Cover on.

[Sundancer01]

This morning..

Air temp 45°.  Set Temp 98°

After 90 minutes running with Cover fully closed, water temp is 101°

Too warm for me..

Going to let it cool and have the Cover half off

[CanadianSpaTech]

Sounds like your dealer needs to step up and figure this out... Or contact MFG directly and ask for their help.

[Sundancer01]

Yup

Still waiting for a call by the Tech to schedule a visit 

[CanadianSpaTech]

Go to showroom on Sat around 1pm and announce your displeasure for all to hear. He will likely follow you home and have it fixed by 3 😈

[Sundancer01]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I thought of that already..

Salesguy seems to just that.  By working with you guys, I might have more tech expertise than he does..

Castle.....

I haven't looked at the Pump Vent yet.  Forty-five degrees here so the weather is 'correcting' the issue.  I just want to get a handle on it now rather than find out about it when it starts to warm up..  Warranty people will really not be interested..

[RDspaguy]

On 10/28/2023 at 6:56 AM, Sundancer01 said:

The Set Temp is 97/98 degrees and we have seen the Controller show 106.  This is with the Cover on.

Why are you running the jets with the cover on?

On 10/28/2023 at 2:59 PM, Sundancer01 said:

Filter cycle..  the Jets were on for their programmed time.  They are either on or off.

The jets do not have a programmed time on a HS that I know of. They have a time-out, meaning they automatically turn off after a certain time (usually 20-30 minutes) and will engage for short periods to recirculate the water a couple times a day, but the heat and primary filtration are on the small circulation pump. But then, I never see the new ones, so maybe they switched it up. But I can tell you that any spa pump ran on high speed (the only speed yours likely has) for 2 hours straight is going to get screaming hot, and will transfer some of that heat to the water. In a tub as well insulated and efficient as a HS (and there aren't many) it will be even more. If your spa is turning the jets on high for 2 hours automatically then that's a problem, but if you are leaving them on for 2 hours then that's on you. I would think the timeout would be less, but it varies with brand.

On 10/30/2023 at 9:59 PM, castletonia said:

Highlife Hot Spring don't have preset filter cycles.  

I didn't think so.

On 10/30/2023 at 9:59 PM, castletonia said:

Hot Spring vents the exhaust from the pump back into the insulation which essentially recycles the heat.

Really? I thought that vented to the outside. Seems rather foolish to dead-end your pump vent into sprayfoam after designing a motor to channel the forced air exhaust into a vent hose. Bet those motors get HOT. 

On 11/1/2023 at 9:08 PM, castletonia said:

you can probably wiggle it off without even cutting the zip tie.  Then just move it away from the back of the motor.  

You can. And that vent tube really should be taking heat away, not deadheading the vent blower in some ill-conceived plan to increase efficiency by a fraction of a percent. Dumping that heat into the equipment area, while a better option than a clogged vent hose, is not enough. Leave a side panel off to allow some airflow in that little box full of hot equipment and see what it does.

On 11/2/2023 at 8:18 AM, Sundancer01 said:

After 90 minutes running

Define "running". If you mean "jets on" then that sounds about right. Especially with a dead-end vent. But if it's just with the circ pump on it's likely a circuit board issue.

On 11/2/2023 at 5:50 PM, Sundancer01 said:

so the weather is 'correcting' the issue.

The issue, I believe, is how long the high speed pumps run, and the weather is only disguising a symptom.

I know there have been some heat-related issues with a certain pump manufacturer, perhaps HS has changed suppliers and now have pumps that run hotter than before.