Buyers Beware: Costco's Unreliable, Unclear Guarantee

[db3808]

What has been everyone's experience with Costco's spas?

I have a 4 year-old "Highlife 6-Person Spa by the Makers of Hot Spring Spas" spa that I purchased for $7K at Costco back in August 2007. It has the IQ2020 and the Watkins PDR No Fault heater. Last month, the heater couldn't heat above 85 so I called Costco to see if they could fix it or if I could return it if they're not going to fix it.

Their response: "I got a response from the manufacturer and they are stating the spa was only covered for a year ... After discussing this with our buying staff unfortunately the request to return the spa was denied. Several conditions are evaluated when considering a return of purchase; reason for return, membership history, return history, date of purchase. We make every effort to accommodate the needs of our members, however based on your original purchase date no record of contact regarding repairs of defects in the spa we will be unable to honor this request."

When I ordered the spa, on the bottom of the order (and on Costco website) it says: "Merchandise: We guarantee your satisfaction on every product we sell with a full refund. Exceptions: Televisions, projectors, computers, cameras, camcorders, iPOD / MP3 players and cellular phones must be returned within 90 days of purchase for a refund."

I also questioned their 1 year manufacturer's coverage since Hot Spring (http://www.hotspring.com/hot-spring-story/warranty) had a 5-year No Fault Heater Warranty.

Had I known how Costco would treat me, I would have never purchased a spa from them. I would definitely never recommend them to anyone when it comes to spa or any other expensive products.

[waterbear]

Somehow I don't think that ANY dealer would take back a tub after 4 years of use. Heaters do go bad and water chemistry can play a part in that so it could be the owner's responsibility for the malfunction and not a defect.

If it were 4 months then expecting them to refund the money would be possibly more reasonalbe but not 4 years.

Just my 2 cents.

[db3808]

Somehow I don't think that ANY dealer would take back a tub after 4 years of use. Heaters do go bad and water chemistry can play a part in that so it could be the owner's responsibility for the malfunction and not a defect.

If it were 4 months then expecting them to refund the money would be possibly more reasonalbe but not 4 years.

Just my 2 cents.

I don't disagree with you. I wasn't looking for Costco to take the tub back (imagine all the work to do so). Initially, I was looking for them to fix the issue, but when they cited the 1 yr warranty, I was pursuing any other option. I don't know, what's the industry standard (if any) for a spa? Going by the Hot Spring site, it seemed more than 1 year.

As for water chemistry, we use Baqua Spa and it's maintained weekly. Is that bad for the heater?

[Dr. Spa]

There is no industry standard for warranties. A manufacturer can put any warranty they want on a spa. One very easy way to reduce the cost of a spa is to reduce the warranty. This spa was special made for costco, at the lowest price possible. I have no doubt they reduced the warranty to reduce the cost.

[PreservedSwine]

You bought a hot tub with a one year warranty, and are considering returning it because the manufacturer won't cover the cost of repair, even though the warranty expired three years ago?

And want to blame Costco for this?

I must be missing something here...

Did you know that the Toyota Corolla was made "By the Makers" Lexus? Does this mean I should head to the Lexus website to get an idea of my warranty?

Less filtration, smaller pump, shorter warranty, delivery not included... Can you say Discount?

Was the warranty expressed as something else at the time of purchase?

Let me clear this up:

You didn't buy a Hot Spring Spa. But you did buy a discounted version of a Hot Spring, by the same people who make Hot Springs. It expressly carries a one year warranty, and uses many of the same components used in Hot Spring Spas, but doesn't have all the premium features of a Hot Spring. The five year warranty is but one of the premium features *not* included. This saved you thousands of dollars.

Watkins (the manufacturer of your spa) warranties typically range from 1 year, to 7 years, and in-between. Hot Springs is just one of the brands. Watkins makes many different "brands" of spa's, many of the same components have different warranties (even though the parts are identical) depending on which spa you purchased. But I've never observed Watkins being deceptive about warranty coverage.

Try calling Watkins yourself, maybe there's just a mix-up. 1-800-999-4688

On another note, I doubt the heater has failed. Check for dirty filters, faulty circ pump, proper voltage to the heater, or a bad heater PCB. None of those parts are over $200, and the chances of one of those being your issue are over 90%

[DK117]

Here is the warranty on the current Costco offereing, Evolution Spas:

Warranty:

LIFETIME WARRANTY on cabinet system

5 years against cracking, blistering, fading, and delaminating of shell

2 years for all mechanical and solid state components

2 years on authorized labor

1 year on cover

Now prior to the Evolution there was some brand (can't remember) of spa that a friend had, and she did successfully return the spa after a year of ownership. However she did have a "record of contact regarding repairs of defects in the spa."

My interpretation of the Costco return policy is to protect against lemons. Again my personal opinion would be three strikes your out. A potential heater problem at 4 years wouldn't personally warrant a return.

Have you had a tech out to evaluate the problem? Hopefully you can get it fixed for a few hundred and go back to enjoying your spa!

DK117

[waterbear]

As for water chemistry, we use Baqua Spa and it's maintained weekly. Is that bad for the heater?

Biguanide/peroxide (BaqauSpa, SoftSoak, and other brands of this sanitizer system) are not bad for heaters per se but they can damage some plastics used in spas and some manufacturers expressly forbid the use of biguanide sanitizing systems for this reason.

pH problems and calcium scaling CAN cause heater problems and these are water balance issues and can occur with ANY sanitizer used in the spa. Many spa owners seem to ignore their water balance and only test sanitizier levels and maybe pH (or even worse, they depend on test strips for water testing) and then wonder why they have problems in their spa.

[db3808]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

Honestly, had I known that it came with a 1-year warranty, I would not have purchased it. (It is the same reason why I would only consider buying a Prius or other EV/hybrids with extensive warranties and not consider electric vehicles with 1 year warranties -- but that's another story.)

I don't remember if it was specifically this forum but when I was researching hot tubs, people were touting Costco's warranty as one of the positives. If it's only for lemons then I'm not sure how that would differentiate them from other major spa sellers.

I'm going to have a service tech look at it. It's not heating but I agree that it may not be the heater. Thanks again for all the feedback.

[DK117]

I don't remember if it was specifically this forum but when I was researching hot tubs, people were touting Costco's warranty as one of the positives. If it's only for lemons then I'm not sure how that would differentiate them from other major spa sellers.

This is an interesting point, and the crux of the issue. I'll need to ask for feedback from all the dealers around, but here's the scenario. One customer purchases a tub from Costco, another from a dealer. At 6 months both have a failed heater, a production defect, both Costco and the dealer replace no questions asked. At 9 months the radio goes bad, Costco fixes, the dealer gets to it when they can, it's not that big of a deal, it's just the radio. Both customers are still happy. 13 months, the lights go out ... this is a "value line" spa, with a one year warranty. Dealer has customer pay for the fix. Costco, with a record of now three issues, acccepts the return as a lemon.

Hey, it's all a theory and my opinion, but we've seen these scenarios happen.

DK117

PS I know it's not Costco doing the actual repairs, but it works for this thread.

[Dr. Spa]

"At 9 months the radio goes bad, Costco fixes, the dealer gets to it when they can, it's not that big of a deal, it's just the radio."

Are you assuming costco (or some manufacturer WITHOUT local service representation) is going to get a service person out there quicker than the dealer???

[DK117]

"At 9 months the radio goes bad, Costco fixes, the dealer gets to it when they can, it's not that big of a deal, it's just the radio."

Are you assuming costco (or some manufacturer WITHOUT local service representation) is going to get a service person out there quicker than the dealer???

I figured that would ruffle some feathers. Oh well ... how many independent techs are represented on this site? Costco Calls Strong, Strong either has a local independent tech or finds one. Sounds like a slow process, but how many instances of delayed service from dealers have we seen on this site? For a non urgent defect like a stereo, yeah, there are many dealers that don't respond in a timely manner.

While that comment in my post was kind of a low blow and meant partially in jest (It's been a long time since I've had the opportunity to fuel the Costco vs dealer flames the main point still stands, a Costo customer, with multiple documented repair instances, can easily make a full return. That is a fact. Open to interpretation are the following:

1) Response time of repairs.

2) Lenth of time full returns are accepted (I'd say closer to 18 months vs 4 years, coming up on 24 months for me and I've gotten enough out of it to know that I'm not due a full refund if something happens.)

DK117

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I figured that would ruffle some feathers... the main point still stands, a Costo customer, with multiple documented repair instances, can easily make a full return. That is a fact. Open to interpretation are the following:

1) Response time of repairs.

2) Lenth of time full returns are accepted (I'd say closer to 18 months vs 4 years, coming up on 24 months for me and I've gotten enough out of it to know that I'm not due a full refund if something happens.)

DK117

I figured that would ruffle some feathers back at ya.

Here's a fact you left out which is not open to interpretation:

History shows Costco spa owners have had a MUCH MUCH MUCH (the repetition is kind of a low blow and not meant partially in jest) higher frequency of having a spa that merits a return. Dealers of quality brands rarely have customers whose spa merits a return so the requests are few and far between.

At 9 months the radio goes bad, Costco fixes, the dealer gets to it when they can, it's not that big of a deal, it's just the radio. DK117

PS I know it's not Costco doing the actual repairs, but it works for this thread.

As for the idea that Costco owners get service through a 3rd party service quicker than spa owners who go through dealers, lol, yeah right. Is that from your vast expereince? Of course not every dealer reacts in a flash but overall you’re going to get more timely service from a spa dealer (and more qualified since they are more likely to be an expert on the product) whether it’s a critical repair or a failed radio. I'm not saying you won't be treated well enough or in a timely enough manner from an independent, I'm just reacting to your baseless, inaccurate comment.

[DK117]

the main point still stands, a Costco customer, with multiple documented repair instances, can easily make a full return. That is a fact.

The OP says the return policy is either unreliable or unclear. Can I get a dealer or independent tech to respond to that? Again, the point being that Costco has a much broader interpretation of what merit's a return vs a dealer. Under what conditions would a dealer accept a returned spa? So of course Costco has a much, much, much higher % return rate. They actually accept returns in many situations.

Full disclosure as I think you guys already know, Spatech, my "vast experience" is some really creepy local dealers (Arctic, Hot Springs, and a traveling spa show) and a few friends who have tubs, one returned a tub to Costco and now owns an Arctic Cub. I've never pretended to be anything other than a jaded consumer.

DK117

[Roger]

Can I get a dealer or independent tech to respond to that?

As an independent who has turned down 2 offers from different manufacturers of Costco sold tubs I have no input. My issue with these manufacturers is the pay scale. They would like to control it. My customers at the point of work pay me, period, no exceptions except a few dealers that have proven to pay based on my rates and invoice. Seems there is a trust issue coming from them. Whatever, I have plenty to do.

[PreservedSwine]

I don't remember if it was specifically this forum but when I was researching hot tubs, people were touting Costco's warranty as one of the positives. If it's only for lemons then I'm not sure how that would differentiate them from other major spa sellers.

This is an interesting point, and the crux of the issue. I'll need to ask for feedback from all the dealers around, but here's the scenario. One customer purchases a tub from Costco, another from a dealer. At 6 months both have a failed heater, a production defect, both Costco and the dealer replace no questions asked. At 9 months the radio goes bad, Costco fixes, the dealer gets to it when they can, it's not that big of a deal, it's just the radio. Both customers are still happy. 13 months, the lights go out ... this is a "value line" spa, with a one year warranty. Dealer has customer pay for the fix. Costco, with a record of now three issues, acccepts the return as a lemon.

Hey, it's all a theory and my opinion, but we've seen these scenarios happen.

DK117

PS I know it's not Costco doing the actual repairs, but it works for this thread.

I think that's valid.

I'm an independent tech, and my company has serviced both spa retailers as well as mega-stores. Lowes, Home Depot, and Costco have very liberal return policies. But little to zero expertise in spa's. They're discount houses, and it's up to the consumer to know what they're getting for their dollar.

Generally speaking, repair response time from a dealer, will on average, be quicker and more efficient than that of an "independent."

Here's why:

There isn't quite the network of support you assume from the discount houses. They go through independents more often than you'd think. The discount houses have zero affiliation with the repair company. It's all between the service company and the spa manufacturer. So it's completely up to the independent to stock parts. Independents must purchase their inventory from the manufacturer. No big deal there, except that the big discount houses change brands regularly, rendering an adequate inventory purchased by the independent useless. Independents can't afford to have all their $$ spent on inventory that won't sell for years.

Therefore, any independent who's been in business a while, realizes it's foolish to carry a large inventory for any of the discount houses. They'll carry heaters, pumps, a few fittings, but very little of the proprietary parts that a real dealer will have a van full of, for the tiniest thing.

I think you're right on target saying that Costco has a much more liberal return policy, but as for getting the repair done properly and completely on the first trip, I'd go with the dealer 100%.

Another issue is payment. Many times, the manufacturer will make it a maze for the independent to get re-reimbursed. I can't tell you how many times Ive ended up buying parts for a spa I didn't even sell. I'm a bit jaded from doing business with many of the discount houses.

[hot_water]

What has been everyone's experience with Costco's spas?

I have a 4 year-old "Highlife 6-Person Spa by the Makers of Hot Spring Spas" spa that I purchased for $7K at Costco back in August 2007. It has the IQ2020 and the Watkins PDR No Fault heater. Last month, the heater couldn't heat above 85 so I called Costco to see if they could fix it or if I could return it if they're not going to fix it.

Their response: "I got a response from the manufacturer and they are stating the spa was only covered for a year ... After discussing this with our buying staff unfortunately the request to return the spa was denied. Several conditions are evaluated when considering a return of purchase; reason for return, membership history, return history, date of purchase. We make every effort to accommodate the needs of our members, however based on your original purchase date no record of contact regarding repairs of defects in the spa we will be unable to honor this request."

When I ordered the spa, on the bottom of the order (and on Costco website) it says: "Merchandise: We guarantee your satisfaction on every product we sell with a full refund. Exceptions: Televisions, projectors, computers, cameras, camcorders, iPOD / MP3 players and cellular phones must be returned within 90 days of purchase for a refund."

I also questioned their 1 year manufacturer's coverage since Hot Spring (http://www.hotspring.com/hot-spring-story/warranty) had a 5-year No Fault Heater Warranty.

Had I known how Costco would treat me, I would have never purchased a spa from them. I would definitely never recommend them to anyone when it comes to spa or any other expensive products.

Did you happen to write down the name of the person you spoke to on the phone from Costco?

There area a couple of things that don't sound right about this situation. First, Costco is obligated to take the spa back, because it is covered under their unlimited member satisfaction policy. Now, realistically (and as you've mentioned) you would very likely not want to return the item over a heater or other small problem. Nevertheless, Costco does have to take it back insofar as that is the advertised policy, which is plainly stated on the website as well as on a sign over the Member Service desk at the Costco warehouse locations - and has been for years. Were it in your interest, you could push the issue - I imagine successfully. I have one friend that returned a spa to Costco. It was from an out of business maker, and the whole process was painless except that he did have to pay the spa mover. There was no approval or denial involved. This person spoke to the store manager a few days prior, explained that the thing has developed a problem and that he wasn't happy with it, and was told to go ahead and bring it back. I disconnected the electrical lines for my (afraid-of-wires) friend, and thespa mover came and took it back. Costco wrote out a check for the full purchase amount on the spot, and handed it over with a smile, saying "Sorry it didn't work out for you". I was there; we ate a Costco hot dog before we left.

For cases such as yours where the manufacturer is still in business, Costco does not eat the return. Part of the deal with Costco is that the manufacturer agrees to eat the returns. In the case above, the manufacturer was not in existence, so Costco did eat the spa. Which makes it all the more interesting that they are electing to tell you that they won't honor your return.

Even if Costco's policy with respect to returns had changed, it wouldn't matter. The governing policy is that which is in-force at the time of the purchase.

Before buying my Evolution spa, I called Costco customer service to confirm that the "member satisfaction guarantee" was indeed in-force and applicable to spas. I was told very explicitly that it was, and that the spa could be returned if at any time I was not satisfied. As it happens, I have been very happy with the spa in all respects, so there has been no need for follow up. The point is that this is a completely different story than the one you got... but does correspond to the single instance mentioned above where my friend's spa was returned with no hassle whatsoever.

Finally, you mentioned that the person you spoke to said that the "buying staff" declined your request for return. The buyers at Costco, like any large retailer, don't control returns. This again just sounds fishy. I would call Costco Customer Service and speak to someone else. If I get a chance next week I'll call Costco, pose as a potential buyer, ask the question about the policy... and report back the result.

Again, if you have the name of the person you spoke to, that would be useful.

[db3808]

Did you happen to write down the name of the person you spoke to on the phone from Costco?

There area a couple of things that don't sound right about this situation. First, Costco is obligated to take the spa back, because it is covered under their unlimited member satisfaction policy. Now, realistically (and as you've mentioned) you would very likely not want to return the item over a heater or other small problem. Nevertheless, Costco does have to take it back insofar as that is the advertised policy, which is plainly stated on the website as well as on a sign over the Member Service desk at the Costco warehouse locations - and has been for years. Were it in your interest, you could push the issue - I imagine successfully. I have one friend that returned a spa to Costco. It was from an out of business maker, and the whole process was painless except that he did have to pay the spa mover. There was no approval or denial involved. This person spoke to the store manager a few days prior, explained that the thing has developed a problem and that he wasn't happy with it, and was told to go ahead and bring it back. I disconnected the electrical lines for my (afraid-of-wires) friend, and thespa mover came and took it back. Costco wrote out a check for the full purchase amount on the spot, and handed it over with a smile, saying "Sorry it didn't work out for you". I was there; we ate a Costco hot dog before we left.

For cases such as yours where the manufacturer is still in business, Costco does not eat the return. Part of the deal with Costco is that the manufacturer agrees to eat the returns. In the case above, the manufacturer was not in existence, so Costco did eat the spa. Which makes it all the more interesting that they are electing to tell you that they won't honor your return.

Even if Costco's policy with respect to returns had changed, it wouldn't matter. The governing policy is that which is in-force at the time of the purchase.

Before buying my Evolution spa, I called Costco customer service to confirm that the "member satisfaction guarantee" was indeed in-force and applicable to spas. I was told very explicitly that it was, and that the spa could be returned if at any time I was not satisfied. As it happens, I have been very happy with the spa in all respects, so there has been no need for follow up. The point is that this is a completely different story than the one you got... but does correspond to the single instance mentioned above where my friend's spa was returned with no hassle whatsoever.

Finally, you mentioned that the person you spoke to said that the "buying staff" declined your request for return. The buyers at Costco, like any large retailer, don't control returns. This again just sounds fishy. I would call Costco Customer Service and speak to someone else. If I get a chance next week I'll call Costco, pose as a potential buyer, ask the question about the policy... and report back the result.

Again, if you have the name of the person you spoke to, that would be useful.

Thanks for the post, hot_water. I interpreted their policy the same way you did, but as you can see, some of the other posters disagree with my interpretation of the policy -- which is fine with me. The policy is unclear. When they put exceptions in their return policy (i.e., The following must be returned within 90 days of purchase for a refund: televisions, projectors, computers, cameras, camcorders, touch screen tablets, MP3 players and cellular phones.) I assume that there was no exceptions for other products.

I submitted a return request on Costco's website (http://shop.costco.com/en/Customer-Service/Returns.aspx), and Millie Wanjiru (Resolution Team, Costco Customer Service), contacted me. I have her phone number and email address as well but I don't want to post them in a public forum. Here's her response for the "unlimited member satisfaction policy": "We have satisfaction guarantee; not lifetime. Our return policy is the most lenient in the marketplace to accommodate our members in these instances."

That's why I posted my experience. I understood the policy to be the way you have articulated it. But it is not the way Costco applies it. Maybe I'll go talk to the local Costco store managers and see what they can do for me. (good idea)

[spatech (the unreal one)]

For cases such as yours where the manufacturer is still in business, Costco does not eat the return. Part of the deal with Costco is that the manufacturer agrees to eat the returns. In the case above, the manufacturer was not in existence, so Costco did eat the spa. Which makes it all the more interesting that they are electing to tell you that they won't honor your return.

Even if Costco's policy with respect to returns had changed, it wouldn't matter. The governing policy is that which is in-force at the time of the purchase.

Maybe you can fight this with Costco and get them to take it back, its worht a shot. However I question that Costco can them dump it on Hot Springs. Its not like the small guys Costco has done business with in the past, I wonder if they have the kind of agreement that Costco will stick them with a 4 year old spa that only has a failed heater. If it were a real issue like a crack or a spa with a history of problems thats one thing, but a heater? I would hope Hot Springs would tell Costco "you can take it back if you want to but thats not worthy of a return in our eyes and we're not taking it back from you". Then again maybe they would take it back since one spa is minor in the grand scheme and they'd just want to keep a good relationship for the future. It would be interesing to see the result but I wouldn't assume they can just stick it to Hot Springs like they wee able to with the Hydro Spas and Infinity Spas of the world (though those POS spas they used to carry at Costco usually deserved to be returned).

[ataDude]

... I have been very happy with the spa in all respects, so there has been no need for follow up...

Me, too.

[db3808]

nm

[hot_water]

Thanks for the post, hot_water. I interpreted their policy the same way you did, but as you can see, some of the other posters disagree with my interpretation of the policy -- which is fine with me. The policy is unclear. When they put exceptions in their return policy (i.e., The following must be returned within 90 days of purchase for a refund: televisions, projectors, computers, cameras, camcorders, touch screen tablets, MP3 players and cellular phones.) I assume that there was no exceptions for other products.

I submitted a return request on Costco's website (http://shop.costco.com/en/Customer-Service/Returns.aspx), and Millie Wanjiru (Resolution Team, Costco Customer Service), contacted me. I have her phone number and email address as well but I don't want to post them in a public forum. Here's her response for the "unlimited member satisfaction policy": "We have satisfaction guarantee; not lifetime. Our return policy is the most lenient in the marketplace to accommodate our members in these instances."

That's why I posted my experience. I understood the policy to be the way you have articulated it. But it is not the way Costco applies it. Maybe I'll go talk to the local Costco store managers and see what they can do for me. (good idea)

I don't find the policy to be unclear at all.

So I called up Costco CS and spoke to "Phyllis" in the Yakima call center. Millie is in the other call center (they have two). I didn't mention that this was from an internet forum, only that "I was talking to someone that was having a problem with a spa return". So, that was a bit of a fib.... in any case, here is what I learned:

(a.) There is no time limit on the Costco satisfaction policy other than the items specifically listed (cameras, computers, TVs, etc). Spas are covered without a time limit.

(b.) If the member's dissatisfaction can be resolved by arranging a repair, Phyllis said that they will often try this, even if it is out of warranty. If that doesn't work, they will accept returns, irrespective of the age of the product... even for spas.

(c.) Costco does refuse returns in specific cases if they conclude that a customer is being blatantly unreasonable and trying to abuse the policy. But Phyllis said it was rare. She was quite surprised that your return was declined when I told ber your story, but also said that it wasn't possible for her to really know why your return was declined without seeing the notes in the file. For example, if someone purposely causes failure (breaks the item on purpose), then that would be not be covered; if someone buys something and then can't use it any more, then that is not considered to be 'dissatisfaction' or grounds for return; or if someone just wants to return something to get a newer model, then that's not covered. None of this seems unreasonable to me. However, if there is a real reason why you're not satisfied that they can't fix, then Costco generally takes it back.

(d.) I asked if it was a condition of selling through Costco that the manufacturer had to eat the returns, and she said that, as far as she knew, that was the general policy. She was not aware of any exceptions, but couldn't confirm that there were none. It does seem unlikely that Watkins - big in spa,s but small potatoes overall, would be able to get a better deal compared to some of the megacorps that sell through Costco.

You are a Costco member, right? You can buy through Costco.com, which is where the Watkins spa was offered, without being a member if you pay a small premium. You might not get the same member satisfaction policy if you're not a member... not sure about that one, but seems like a good thing to ask - if you aren't a member or weren't one when you bought.

Phyllis said that you can call the Yakima call center and ask for her if you like. She will get involved and try to find out exactly why your return was denied. But as mentioned, it doesn't make much sense to return a spa over a little problem. Maybe the unreasonableness of this request made it appear to Millie that you were trying to rip off the policy?

I would like to hear how this turns out. From my own personal experience, as well as what I got on the phone just a few minutes ago, Costco seems reasonable and still willing to stand behind the product with the best safety net policy one could imagine. I wouldn't expect them to sit still and allow themselves or their suppliers to be screwed, would you?

[db3808]

Thanks for your comments, hot_water.

(b.) If the member's dissatisfaction can be resolved by arranging a repair, Phyllis said that they will often try this, even if it is out of warranty. If that doesn't work, they will accept returns, irrespective of the age of the product... even for spas.

Here's my email correspondence with Millie. As you can see, she clearly indicated that, "you would have to pay out of pocket for service." That's when I asked if I could exchange or return it.

8/22:

My name is Millie and I have been assigned to your issue with your Costco.com order.

I contacted the manufacturer of the spa to request service for the spa and they provided a phone number 888-650-7727 in San Mateo; they are looking into the issue and they should get back to me tomorrow. I will update you as soon as I receive a response.

8/24:

I got a response from the manufacturer and they are stating the spa was only covered for a year and it’s hard to believe that. I am not sure how you want to proceed from here. Please let me know when you get a chance.

8/24:

Hi Millie,

What are my options? Can you send a tech to fix it?

8/24:

(Millie) I can ask the company to send a tech but you would have to pay out of pocket for service. A return of the spa has to go through our buying staff for authorization and the request might be denied or approved.

8/24:

(Millie) Unfortunately we cannot, we can only ship the same kind of spa if exchange and only within 30 days.

(c.) Costco does refuse returns in specific cases if they conclude that a customer is being blatantly unreasonable and trying to abuse the policy. But Phyllis said it was rare. She was quite surprised that your return was declined when I told ber your story, but also said that it wasn't possible for her to really know why your return was declined without seeing the notes in the file. For example, if someone purposely causes failure (breaks the item on purpose), then that would be not be covered; if someone buys something and then can't use it any more, then that is not considered to be 'dissatisfaction' or grounds for return; or if someone just wants to return something to get a newer model, then that's not covered. None of this seems unreasonable to me. However, if there is a real reason why you're not satisfied that they can't fix, then Costco generally takes it back.

I agree, none of what Phyllis said seems unreasonable. 3 months after the spa was delivered the control panel (next to the seat stopped working) and Costco sent someone out to replace it. Like I have stated earlier in the thread, we check our spa every week to make sure the water is balance and we use Baqua Spa products. We live in the Bay Area so the weather is very moderate. We take very good care of the spa.

By the way, my return record is pretty reasonable. I rarely return items unless they were DOA or defective, and even then, they probably total less than 3% of my total purchases. My last return was over 2 years ago, when a brand new vacuum started smoking when I first used it.

You are a Costco member, right? You can buy through Costco.com, which is where the Watkins spa was offered, without being a member if you pay a small premium. You might not get the same member satisfaction policy if you're not a member... not sure about that one, but seems like a good thing to ask - if you aren't a member or weren't one when you bought.

I've been a Costco member since early 90s. My card says member since 9/1/97 only because their system messed up and restarted my initial membership date (no biggie).

Phyllis said that you can call the Yakima call center and ask for her if you like. She will get involved and try to find out exactly why your return was denied. But as mentioned, it doesn't make much sense to return a spa over a little problem. Maybe the unreasonableness of this request made it appear to Millie that you were trying to rip off the policy?

After reading the email thread that I pasted above (word for word), do you think I was being unreasonable? I didn't think so but perhaps I'm biased.

Can you give me the number you used? Is she the only Phyllis there or how do I ask for her?

I would like to hear how this turns out. From my own personal experience, as well as what I got on the phone just a few minutes ago, Costco seems reasonable and still willing to stand behind the product with the best safety net policy one could imagine. I wouldn't expect them to sit still and allow themselves or their suppliers to be screwed, would you?

I will definitely post back on how this turns out.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

(b.) If the member's dissatisfaction can be resolved by arranging a repair, Phyllis said that they will often try this, even if it is out of warranty. If that doesn't work, they will accept returns, irrespective of the age of the product... even for spas.

(c.) Costco does refuse returns in specific cases if they conclude that a customer is being blatantly unreasonable and trying to abuse the policy. But Phyllis said it was rare. She was quite surprised that your return was declined when I told ber your story, but also said that it wasn't possible for her to really know why your return was declined without seeing the notes in the file.

These are key points. I think the return was denied because trying to return a spa with a bad heater after 4 years is like trying to return a car because the tires wore out after 40,000 miles.

I'll bet you can get Costco to act by asking them to repair the heater even though its long past the warranty period (and is not a rare/unlikely filure type) but if they have any backbone they will deny the outright return for a failed 4 year old heater.

If Coscto does take it back I question whether Hot Springs would in turn take it from Costco since this is such a ridiculous reason to send a spa back.

[Dr. Spa]

It's unlikely costco would "ask" Hot Springs to take it back and refund the $ art this point. Generally the way costco works is that they hold back a certain percentage of what they owe (10%) for a certain period of time (typically 1 year). Since HS haven't sold any spas through costco for over a year, costco should have paid them in full for any AP and I think it, beyond unlikely, they have (HS) any contractual responsibility at this point.

[db3808]

These are key points. I think the return was denied because trying to return a spa with a bad heater after 4 years is like trying to return a car because the tires wore out after 40,000 miles.

You would be wrong. You "think the return was denied because ..." ... Haha .. you rather ASSume things than read what actually happened?

If you bother to read the correspondence between me and the Costco rep then you would realize that I did ask Costco to fix the issue. Only after they denied did I pursue the return course.