markley Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I have been getting quotes to have the 220v electrical run for a hot tub and a few of the contractors say it is better to put the GFI on the panel, and just having a disconnect near the tub. It seems that this will be a little more expensive (about $100 more). So far, my estimates have been $500-$600. Does this sound right? The run is about 25-30 feet (50amp, 6 gauge 4-wire copper). One contractor actually turned me down because I told him I was getting multiple estimates. He said that he can't compete with these guys that will do it for cheaper (he says they will cut corners to keep the cost down). That was a first for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerimiahR Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Maybe it's because I've had no caffeine yet this morning, but I'm not understanding your question. You said the contractor wants to put the GFI on what panel? The standard setup would be a 50amp non-GFCI in your main service panel (in the garage, or where ever your breaker box is). They would then run power to the Subpanel box which must be mounted within sight of the hot tub, but no less than 5ft away from the spa. This box is where they should install the GFCI, and then run [wire] from that to the hot tub. [indicates edit for clarification] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iflych52 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Yes I am talking about the subpanel box. I was wondering if the 5ft is line of sight? My sub panel will be right around the corner but very close to five ft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peteyboy Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Sorry to jump in Jeremiah. Most codes state that the sub-panel must be at least 5 feet from the water line and within site of the spa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerimiahR Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Sorry to jump in Jeremiah. Most codes state that the sub-panel must be at least 5 feet from the water line and within site of the spa. Of course the best thing in all cases is to have a licensed electrician perform the installation for you. Granted this costs more money, but at least you're not liable for any code violations this way. And it's the electrician's job to be up to date on all your state and local codes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markley Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Jeremiah, Sorry if my original post was not clear. The contractor wants to put the GFI on the main service panel (inside the house), and run wire to a disconnect box near the tub. The tub would be wired to the disconnect box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerimiahR Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Jeremiah, Sorry if my original post was not clear. The contractor wants to put the GFI on the main service panel (inside the house), and run wire to a disconnect box near the tub. The tub would be wired to the disconnect box. Obviously I don't know what your state electrical codes require. So do not take my comments as gold. However, I can tell you the standard application (and what manufacturers typically recommend) is to have the GFCI breaker mounted in the subpanel box OUTSIDE. It may even be a code issue, but again I don't know that fine of details. Ultimately though, you absolutely need to have a GFCI somewhere along the line. If you're just installing a typical 50amp 2 pole GFCI, I'm not sure how it would cost any different to put the GFCI inside or outside. If they mounted the GFCI inside, they'd still have to mount a disconnect box with a breaker outside so you can shut down power to the spa (from outside). The whole reason this must be visible from the hot tub, is so that anyone servicing equipment within the spa can physically see the breaker to ensure nobody turns it on while they're touching equipment and such. It's just a safety deal. So if you end up putting in two 50amp breakers, cost wise I don't think it should matter whether the GFCI is inside or outside. Again, I'm not an electrician. Your electrician should know what the state codes are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markley Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Yeah, I think the cost difference was based on the make of my main service panel (Square D). The cost of a GFI on this panel costs around 150-200, as opposed to buying a GFI for $75 buy the tub. Thanks for the replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Clown Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 The reason for the cost difference is because a gfi breaker is 40 to 60 bucks depending where you get it and a gfi outlet type is generally less than 20 bucks. just a clown talking, ignore him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart6453 Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 You can put the GFCI in either. It's just quite nice to have it next to the tub so that you can re-set it easier. Also, it is technically superior to keep the line as short as possible between the GFCI and the item connected. As a side note you can GFCI any circuit you want using a standard 15 or 20 amp GFCI breaker. I have all my garage circuits GFCI in the main house panel.......that way I can't make a stupid mistake and kill myself. Also something I did in all my kid's bedrooms.....just to be sure an errant key does less damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcowboy Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I just went through this, but did the install myself. Square D 50Amp 2 Pole GFCI breaker for the main panel was 95 dollars at Home Depot. The Spa Disconnect box with the same gfci breaker was 72 dollars If you use a GFCI breaker in your main panel, then you need some type of disconnect outside. If you use a spa disconnect box with a built in GFCI breaker, then you still need a breaker for your main panel Either way, Home Depot cost should be $90 - $115 roughly. Either application will give you essentially the same result and the price should not vary that drastically Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Spa Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Keep in mind, if you put the GFCI inside the house, if you ever have a spa tech out to work on the spa, you'll HAVE to be home so it can be reset if and when tripped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart6453 Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Keep in mind, if you put the GFCI inside the house, if you ever have a spa tech out to work on the spa, you'll HAVE to be home so it can be reset if and when tripped. That is one of the best reasons to have your GFCI located in your disconnect panel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot_water Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Square D breakers are outstanding and worth every penny, especially if you have QO series. In any case though, I wouldn't recommend putting the GFI in the main house panel. Put a 50A non-gfi breaker in the main panel. Sounds like you have a Square D panel, make sure they bid (and supply) a genuiine Square D breaker, not a cheap replacement type like a Challenger or some other chinese junk. Use a 50A GFI breaker in the subpanel, mounted per local code. NEC says minimum of 5 feet as measured from the water (yup, inside the spa at the water's surface where it touches the shell), but state/local codes can be and often are a bit different. I've never heard of one that allows the disconnect box any closer than 5 feet, though. You don't want some knucklehead in the tub reaching into the box. Some set a maximum distance as well as a minimum. The GFI in the sub panel is preferable because GFIs will trip if there is more than a 5 milliamp discrepancy between current in the legs. If you have a 50 amp system, your tub will probably draw about 40 amps max. Compared to 40 amps, 5 milliamps is nothing. Inductance in a long run of wire can couple some current out of the main conductors into either the conduit or the safety ground and create enough difference to trip the GFI. THis is called niusance tripping and it can be very difficult or impossible to correct. If you put your GFI closer to the tub in the sub panel, there is very simply less of a wire run and therefore less chance that you'll have problems. No guarantees, but you should stack the deck in your favor. You can get a spa disconnect from Lowe's for less than $80 or so. I think HD has something the same or equivalent. I like the Lowe's one, it is made by Midwest and uses a Seimens GFI breaker - also very high quality. In fact a replacement Seimens breaker is more than the entire disconnect (all the high end brekers are pricey). I would not recommend a box with a Murray or Challenger brand breaker, but that's just me. Stick with Square D, Seimens or General Electric THQL for 50A GFI. In any case make sure you get a licensed guy and pull a permit. This ensures at least an inspector will take a look. Again, that's no guarantee because some inspectors aren't too sharp, but it's better than nothing. $500-600 actually sounds a bit low. If you can afford it, go with dual rated THHN/THWN in conduit rather than direct burial wire. Make sure everyone bids the same specs. I would advise you to tell the electrician that you want the subpanel from Lowes (or HD, as you prefer) and that's you'll provide it. You can save a little if you dig the trench, if there's trenching involved. You can run the conduit above ground also. It's cheaper since there's no trenching and if you run it along a fenceline or something similar so it's not an eyesore you could save a bit. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markley Posted August 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Thanks much hot water...This is exactly what I needed to know. I just checked and I do have a QO series Square D panel. I think that I will get the GFI outside by the tub. Thanks for the heads up on the cheaper replacement parts..I'll make sure they bid for the Square D breaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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