Infinity Spa

[Markee]

Article from Johnson City Press:

A local spa manufacturer, Infinity Spas, has sold its operations to a Florida company that will close facilities in Johnson City and Elizabethton, resulting in 150 layoffs that Infinity officials announced to workers Monday afternoon. Another local company that makes vinyl fencing products also announced it was in the midst of a 40-employee layoff.

Infinity, which opened in 2005, worked the deal with a Tampa company, Living Water Products, over the past couple weeks, and CEO Dave Hatley said severe reductions in demand had hit both companies hard since the spring.

“We didn't really see a downturn until about May or June, but the last couple months there’s just been a sharp decline,” said Hatley, whose company sold to stores like Costco and Home Depot.

“Those guys are really taking a hit in the leisure product industry, which is where we fall.”

Infinity’s Web site shows 12 spa models with suggested retail prices from $2,899 to $16,999, with eight of the 12 between $5,000 and $10,000.

Infinity had 110 employees at its manufacturing plant on Buffalo Road, and another 40 in a call center and distribution warehouse in Elizabethton. Hatley said workers will be eligible for unemployment benefits and probably additional retraining help, but added that he hated to be breaking the news.

“Everybody knew things were slowing down, but I don't think they saw a consolidation coming,” Hatley said of the local workers.

“This is a great area for labor force,” Hatley said. “The cost and labor force around here is tremendous, but there’s really no other alternative for us.”

He said Infinity and Living Water both were producing at about 30 percent of capacity since the sudden slowdown this summer.

“There's no way we can facilitate an operation this size with those type of economic conditions. It’s just one of those times when manufacturers have to come together and hunker down and get through this downturn.”

Hatley said the acquisition will give Living Water, which manufactures Lazy Boy and Coleman branded spas mostly for pool and spa stores, to broaden its market to the mass merchants that were Infinity's customers. They’ll keep the Infinity name on the products, but make them in Tampa.

Today’s news was the end of what turned out to be a brief chapter in local manufacturing. Infinity opened in 2005 when, Hatley said, “we saw a certain niche in the spa industry, and we just decided to start manufacturing and go after it.”

That niche was selling to large retailers — Hatley said he came out of the retail industry — and it worked, as the company moved from 30 employees in 2005 to 80 in 2006 and 200 in 2007, and even bought a Dallas-based competitor, Keys Backyard, last year.

The company bought its 200,000-square-foot Elizabethton location last year with plans to expand further and consolidate its operations there (its Buffalo Road plant is 75,000 square feet).

Instead, workers found themselves without jobs when they pulled out of the parking lot Monday.

In other news, ProPlastix International Inc., which makes vinyl fencing and window and door products, is expected to lay off 40 workers during a period that began Oct. 14 and will end Nov. 30. The news was reported Monday by the state Department of Labor and Workforce Development.

A spokesman at the company's Pennsylvania headquarters would not comment on the layoffs, but a local economic development official said he thought the company employed a total of about 50 people.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

What is happening with the Texas plant?

[johnc1]

Hi, I have an infinity spa that needs parts, tried for 3hrs to get thru to co. They had on the recording that they were closed. Call back on reg. business hrs. Another co. belly up?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

What is happening with the Texas plant?

I wonder what will happen when Infinity owners need service now. I never thought buying from Infinity was a wise choice in the first place but having to now rely on Living Waters (previously known as Tatum) seems iffy at best.

[Dnepr Dave]

Just look down a few posts.

Here's a link for you.

<removed>

Dave

[hottub31]

What is happening with the Texas plant?

I wonder what will happen when Infinity owners need service now. I never thought buying from Infinity was a wise choice in the first place but having to now rely on Living Waters (previously known as Tatum) seems iffy at best.

stay tuned more action coming your way!!!.......

[Coastside Spas]

What is happening with the Texas plant?

I wonder what will happen when Infinity owners need service now. I never thought buying from Infinity was a wise choice in the first place but having to now rely on Living Waters (previously known as Tatum) seems iffy at best.

As of the 28th Infinity Spas is no more. The news article referenced above is not entirely accurate. Living Water Products DID NOT purchase Infinity Spas. They purchased the name and rights to production, but NOT ANY of the liabilities.

If you own a Hydrospa, Keys Backyard or Infinity Spa, you are likely without warranty or service options. I would suggest you contact the organization you purchased the spa from and see what options they provide, short of returning it.

I have been in communication with several people directly involved in the closure as I was a service contract center for them.

[Coastside Spas]

Hi, I have an infinity spa that needs parts, tried for 3hrs to get thru to co. They had on the recording that they were closed. Call back on reg. business hrs. Another co. belly up?

I would suggest you contact the location you purchased it from to see what they can do for you. Infinity Spas is permanently closed and there currently is no news concerning ongoing warranty support.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

As of the 28th Infinity Spas is no more. The news article referenced above is not entirely accurate. Living Water Products DID NOT purchase Infinity Spas. They purchased the name and rights to production, but NOT ANY of the liabilities.

If you own a Hydrospa, Keys Backyard or Infinity Spa, you are likely without warranty or service options. I would suggest you contact the organization you purchased the spa from and see what options they provide, short of returning it.

I have been in communication with several people directly involved in the closure as I was a service contract center for them.

I never really trusted that anyone buying an Infinity spa would have trouble ever getting service when they were a viable company bu it sucks for them to now be totally out of luck getting reimbursement for parts and service.

So Living Waters just bought another spa name and will be going for that Costco business. They've been rumored to be teetering for months now and I thought they'd go before Infinity. They've been known over the years for putting out cheap junk and leaving people high and dry as well so I don't see them any different than Keys or Infinity, just low priced shiny but junky spas (until they go under).

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

What is happening with the Texas plant?

I wonder what will happen when Infinity owners need service now. I never thought buying from Infinity was a wise choice in the first place but having to now rely on Living Waters (previously known as Tatum) seems iffy at best.

As of the 28th Infinity Spas is no more. The news article referenced above is not entirely accurate. Living Water Products DID NOT purchase Infinity Spas. They purchased the name and rights to production, but NOT ANY of the liabilities.

If you own a Hydrospa, Keys Backyard or Infinity Spa, you are likely without warranty or service options. I would suggest you contact the organization you purchased the spa from and see what options they provide, short of returning it.

I have been in communication with several people directly involved in the closure as I was a service contract center for them.

We are also a service center for them and they owe us money. Any news on getting paid or should I just write it off at this point?

[sandi]

Hi, I have an infinity spa that needs parts, tried for 3hrs to get thru to co. They had on the recording that they were closed. Call back on reg. business hrs. Another co. belly up?

I would suggest you contact the location you purchased it from to see what they can do for you. Infinity Spas is permanently closed and there currently is no news concerning ongoing warranty support.

I just got off the phone with a customer service rep. from costco.com. He reiterated the refund policy - they will take the spa back AT ANY TIME for a full refund, including shipping costs, if a customer is dissatisfied with the spa for ANY reason. He also sent me the following email which I wanted to pass along to other Infinity owners who bought from costco.com:

I just want to confirm that Costco.com will stand behind the original warranty on your spa regardless what happens with the Infinity Spa buyout.

Please contact me if you ever have any spa issue.

Sincerely,

David Lilley

E-commerce Resolution Team

425.313.8100 x111746

800.955.2292

I would suggest that Infinity owners contact customer service at costco.com with their order number and ask to be included on the list of people who are notified/updated when there is a plan for who will be handling warranty/service issues for Infinity spas. The guy told me that several Infinity owners have already called with service issues. They were told to line up a tech, get the spa repaired, and send the bill to Costco - they would cover the full cost of the repair.

Sandi

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I would suggest that Infinity owners contact customer service at costco.com with their order number and ask to be included on the list of people who are notified/updated when there is a plan for who will be handling warranty/service issues for Infinity spas. The guy told me that several Infinity owners have already called with service issues. They were told to line up a tech, get the spa repaired, and send the bill to Costco - they would cover the full cost of the repair.

Sandi

I'd take them up on a return but then again I'd have never considered that type of spa in the first place but at least those that keep it have something to flal back on.

Ironically, in some ways I think Infinity owners may be better off now than they were when Infinity was in operation. Before you would have had to get Infinity to provide service and parts which I've always thought would be iffy. Now if Costco is covering things you at least know they'll pay the bill.

The issue is finding a local tech who knows what he's doing and where to get parts and you'll have to pay up front because if you say "Costco will pay you" to the tech I can assure you he'll say "you pay me and have Costco pay you" but at least you'll be covered.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

The parts will not be hard to find, Balboa controls, custom molded jets ect, but I think Costco will bark at paying a service company retail for the replacement parts. It will cut into what little profit margin they had.

Customers have had to pay me upfront for work on these tubs anyway, then they can fight to get paid. Unfortuanatly we sold a few of these tubs when Infinity first opened, so I am going to eat the money owed me by Infinity because i will not charge my own customer. Warrenty is all but done on the few we sold, after being totally rebuilt to begin with!

[Biz]

The Sunpeak they sold me this past April did not have the foam insulation and only a 4.0 kw heater. Just last week, Infinity had agreed to send me a new tub with the foam insulation and larger heater. Guess now, I am out of luck.

In the meantime, are you aware of any way I can improve on the insulation. I was thinking about spraying on the foam insulation myself, but was told that there is difficulties in making it stick to the shell of the tub properly. Would getting some Styrofoam insulation panels and attaching them to the interior of the tub make any sense and be worthwhile? We live in Vermont and the weather is getting quite cold.

The parts will not be hard to find, Balboa controls, custom molded jets ect, but I think Costco will bark at paying a service company retail for the replacement parts. It will cut into what little profit margin they had.

Customers have had to pay me upfront for work on these tubs anyway, then they can fight to get paid. Unfortuanatly we sold a few of these tubs when Infinity first opened, so I am going to eat the money owed me by Infinity because i will not charge my own customer. Warrenty is all but done on the few we sold, after being totally rebuilt to begin with!

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Being that we are a service center (was I should say) for Infinity and Keys, we see and fix many leaks, I would not foam it in plus the curing of the foam may degrade the glue in the fittings plus make future leaks hard to find. Use the 2 inch boards, Cover the entire sides of the cabinet and the floor to the best of your ability. Purchase a spa blanket to go on under the cover. If you use the tub at the same time each day, set the tub into economy mode, allowing it to heat up right before you use it. You may have to change the filter cycles depending on how much tempreture the tub loses between cycles. We are on the VT border in NH so know what our winters are like, and it looks like its going to be a killer this year.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

In the meantime, are you aware of any way I can improve on the insulation. I was thinking about spraying on the foam insulation myself, but was told that there is difficulties in making it stick to the shell of the tub properly. Would getting some Styrofoam insulation panels and attaching them to the interior of the tub make any sense and be worthwhile? We live in Vermont and the weather is getting quite cold.

At this point I'd go with the foil backed foam panels when insulating a spa at someone’s home. Fully insulating it with spray foam from the start is certainly the way to go IMO but it’s impractical after the fact and I'm not sure how much I'd trust the integrity of Infinity’s plumbing to be covering it all with spray on insulation (and it would be costly). Stick to the advice HHT gave you and that which a few others have done. It may not make it a top of the line insulated spa when retrofitted but it'll take it from an energy hog to something reasonable if you take the time and do you best to eliminate air transfer wherever possible.

[Biz]

Thanks for the advice. Is this what I should be purchasing

2 inch thick foil backed rigid foam panels from Lowes with an R value of R7?

Will the panels need to be cut and also how would they be attached to the interior of the tub?

I have contacted Costco and they have offered to either give us our money back and return the tub or allow us to exchange it for the St. Lucia spa made by Living Water Products out of Tampa

No final decision on how they will handle our current warranty going forward yet. They will contact us in the near future with more information.

Have you ever heard of the St. Lucia tub made by Living Water Products?

The costco rep indicated it was an upgrade from the Infinity Sunpeak.

I have never heard of this company before and want to know how reliable this tub would be.

Thanks for any feedback you can provide

Being that we are a service center (was I should say) for Infinity and Keys, we see and fix many leaks, I would not foam it in plus the curing of the foam may degrade the glue in the fittings plus make future leaks hard to find. Use the 2 inch boards, Cover the entire sides of the cabinet and the floor to the best of your ability. Purchase a spa blanket to go on under the cover. If you use the tub at the same time each day, set the tub into economy mode, allowing it to heat up right before you use it. You may have to change the filter cycles depending on how much tempreture the tub loses between cycles. We are on the VT border in NH so know what our winters are like, and it looks like its going to be a killer this year.

[RickJ]

I'd return the tub to Costco, take the money, and go buy from a local dealer that can offer a quality tub, and service.

[Shaamus]

Have you ever heard of the St. Lucia tub made by Living Water Products?

The costco rep indicated it was an upgrade from the Infinity Sunpeak.

I have never heard of this company before and want to know how reliable this tub would be.

Living Water is the new name for Tatum aka Gulf Coast.

[ALASKA RECREATIONAL]

First it was HydroSpa, Then it was Keys and now Infinity.

If I made Hot tub's, I would think that selling in Costco

could be a death sentence.

Hope Dave doesn't have to sell his FORD GT

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Have you ever heard of the St. Lucia tub made by Living Water Products?

The costco rep indicated it was an upgrade from the Infinity Sunpeak.

I have never heard of this company before and want to know how reliable this tub would be.

Living Water is the new name for Tatum aka Gulf Coast.

New name (yet again), same product quality.

[Roger]

Companys like Costco and all the other big box stores are doing the same thing. They are going out and negotiating with companys and demanding there own pricing structure and promising great big orders. What this does is create manufacturers that after the deal is done, there stratagy is to produce very very low quality, cut every corner possible and produce a product that meets the exact spec of the big box store. Very inexpensive and produced to match. Follow that with no hands on customer service and very very shoddy warranty and the manufacturer becomes the controller of the contract with the box store instead of vice versa as the box store thought. Bingo, piles of profit for the manufacture and poof there gone. It's a way to pile a bunch of money into the owners of a so so manufacturer before they retire.

It will happen more and more. If you manufacture kitchen utinzels and hair brushes you can survive through cheap manufacturing and bulk sale to the box store. But not hot tubs, they require babysitting after the sale.

[ALASKA RECREATIONAL]

This is an E-MAIL I got today 11-10-08 Monday from Dave Hatley, owner of Infinity Spa's

I can't even write checks, bank took over I'll be filing Chapter 7 soon.

You should blame and go after Costco, nothing I can do, I'm sorry

Dave Hatley

Lets see Dave, You made crappy, low quality, sub standard tubs and we should blame Costco

for that. Costco pays their bills on time and you have NEVER done that with any of your repair people and im suppose to blame Costco cause you don't.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

This is an E-MAIL I got today 11-10-08 Monday from Dave Hatley, owner of Infinity Spa's

I can't even write checks, bank took over I'll be filing Chapter 7 soon.

You should blame and go after Costco, nothing I can do, I'm sorry

Dave Hatley

Lets see Dave, You made crappy, low quality, sub standard tubs and we should blame Costco

for that. Costco pays their bills on time and you have NEVER done that with any of your repair people and im suppose to blame Costco cause you don't.

Here's the joke. In negotiating you know Dave looked at what they needed to sell the spa to Costco to be profitable. Then Costco says "no, we need it at XXXX price". Instead of saying, "no thanks, its not in our best interest to sell at that price" they lower their pants to get business up front and pay for the mistake later. That and the low quality killed them. The same thing happened to Hydro Spa, tehn Keys and then Infinity.

I've always said the Costco spas were priced well because Costco sells in volume so they try to keep teh price down and they beat up the manufacturer to keep the price down as well. The problem for the consumers of these spas has always been the quality is poor as these manufacturers skimp to save $$ in producing these spas, the warranty can not be trusted and the makers of these cheapo spas never stick around. Its sad that people assume that "its from Costco, they only sell quality merchandise" but it never changes and now the baton has been passed to Tatum (or whatever the new name is that they're using to distance themselves from the stigma of their past name(s)).

[Biz]

Looks like Costco has stepped up to the plate regarding the Infinity Warranties. I received a phone call from Hot Tub Services, which I believe is our of Connecticut, last night. They informed me that they are meeting with the President of Costco this week to hammer out a contract in which they will take over the warranty service for Infinity.

He did not have specific details yet, but did ask us what issues we were having with the Infinity Sunpeak. As I told him, we did not receive the 5.5 kw heater that was advertised when we purchased the tub (we have a 4.0kw heater) and that there was not the 2 inch foam insulation on the shell of the tub as advertised. We are looking for them to upgrade our heater and insulation (though I have been advised not to srpay them spray on foam).

He indicated that they will get back to us within 2 weeks to make an appointment to service our tub.

Since future warranty issues are being contracted directly by Costco with this company, I would expect service to be much more timely going forward. If this works out, it could be a definite plus to all Finfinity owners

Companys like Costco and all the other big box stores are doing the same thing. They are going out and negotiating with companys and demanding there own pricing structure and promising great big orders. What this does is create manufacturers that after the deal is done, there stratagy is to produce very very low quality, cut every corner possible and produce a product that meets the exact spec of the big box store. Very inexpensive and produced to match. Follow that with no hands on customer service and very very shoddy warranty and the manufacturer becomes the controller of the contract with the box store instead of vice versa as the box store thought. Bingo, piles of profit for the manufacture and poof there gone. It's a way to pile a bunch of money into the owners of a so so manufacturer before they retire.

It will happen more and more. If you manufacture kitchen utinzels and hair brushes you can survive through cheap manufacturing and bulk sale to the box store. But not hot tubs, they require babysitting after the sale.