Newbie Confused... Again

[quarry]

hi all me again, still narrowing down final selections, I think it's Arctic V Hot Springs at the moment, still got a couple more wet tests so a late runner may appear.....never say never but it would have to be exceptional. anyway getting back to my question, The Arctic Spa has 1 filter and the Hot Spring has anything between 3 - 5, does this mean Hot Springs has better filtration,has it too much or do they use several to get the same filtration as Arctic? or is Arctic's not as good as Hot Springs?

Also would any of you out there say Hot Springs had the more powerful Jets over Arctic or Vica-Versa?

Many Thanx for previous help offered in this forum, it's been so helpful to me, I hope in the very near future to own a hot tub so I'll be too busy to ask anymore newbie questions.

[Stevie]

hi all me again, still narrowing down final selections, I think it's Arctic V Hot Springs at the moment, still got a couple more wet tests so a late runner may appear.....never say never but it would have to be exceptional. anyway getting back to my question, The Arctic Spa has 1 filter and the Hot Spring has anything between 3 - 5, does this mean Hot Springs has better filtration,has it too much or do they use several to get the same filtration as Arctic? or is Arctic's not as good as Hot Springs?

Also would any of you out there say Hot Springs had the more powerful Jets over Arctic or Vica-Versa?

Many Thanx for previous help offered in this forum, it's been so helpful to me, I hope in the very near future to own a hot tub so I'll be too busy to ask anymore newbie questions.

Both spas you mention are considered quality spas. Filtration can be accomplished a number of different ways and just like jets, more isn't always better. HS uses filtration in a marketing aspect as Arctic uses their insulation method. Both spas are branded to appeal to certain key aspect of ownership. HS targets consumers concerned about water quality and filtration while Arctic keys on efficiency and insulation method.

A single 50 sq ft filter can look after an 8 person spas without problems and personally, I wouldn't want the cost associated with multiple filters. In past experience, I've seen where only a small portion of each filter is actually doing anything. Maybe they've changed in the past couple years...

I guess what I'm saying is that neither would be features I would base my purchase on soley while instead, focusing on the wet test and determining which spa offers the best comfort and therapy for me (you)!

When it comes to "power", don't get caught in the "more is always better" MAN TYPE thinking. Various massaging jets and having different seating with different therapeutic aspects in each one is a more important way of approaching this purchase than just POWER! Do yourself a favor and look at what a spa is for in a different way. Water therapy is much different than buying a car and considering RWHP (rear wheel horse power).

[quarry]

many thanx stevie for the quick reply, I have nothing but praise for this forum with the unbiased and honest findings of its members. you are correct in what you say that it is much different than buying a car and in my case it would be cheaper to buy a car because i wouldn't spend as much on a car as i am intending to spend on a hot tub.... strange to some people but a car is a means of getting me from A to B and i'm not too fussed how that happens as long as it does, however a hot tub is something that i am willing to invest in for relaxation, hydro massage and sheer enjoyment, so i am trying to get it right first time,which is why i am trying to ask the right questions to the members of the forum (hot tub owners) and not the dealers as 'theirs is always best'. As most of you guys are either state side or in canada you probably wont realise that as i am in england i will expect to pay the same as you guys (whether candian or american) in pounds sterling as you pay in dollars, considerably alot more given the exchange rate. Thats why i value 'all' views and findings. Thanx again all.

[Stevie]

I was born in England and even though I'm in Canada now, I understand the cost of a hot tub there. It's NUTS! Also check out Hydropool & Beachcomber as I know they are offered there as well.

The keys to buying a spa IMO is as follows;

- Buy within your budget

- Find a dealer you are comfortable with and trust

- don't get caught up in gimmicks and marketing crap

- find a spa that's comfortable for you and your family

- Look at the type of jets and not the number of them and type of therapy they provide

- Wet test prior to the purchase

- negotiate in good faith when you are ready to buy

- ask what type of upgrades ( cover lifter, chemicals, etc.) come with it

- find out the type of electrical service required for your spa and the cost of electrician (do they have contacts they can provide?)

- determine your application for your spa and what it's going to be sitting on and prepare

- Does your dealer offer free water tests and do they come out to show you how it works after it's delivered and running?

This is just a real quick overview off the top of my head...

[Stuart A]

I was born in England and even though I'm in Canada now, I understand the cost of a hot tub there. It's NUTS! Also check out Hydropool & Beachcomber as I know they are offered there as well.

The keys to buying a spa IMO is as follows;

- Buy within your budget

- Find a dealer you are comfortable with and trust

- don't get caught up in gimmicks and marketing crap

- find a spa that's comfortable for you and your family

- Look at the type of jets and not the number of them and type of therapy they provide

- Wet test prior to the purchase

- negotiate in good faith when you are ready to buy

- ask what type of upgrades ( cover lifter, chemicals, etc.) come with it

- find out the type of electrical service required for your spa and the cost of electrician (do they have contacts they can provide?)

- determine your application for your spa and what it's going to be sitting on and prepare

- Does your dealer offer free water tests and do they come out to show you how it works after it's delivered and running?

This is just a real quick overview off the top of my head...

This is all good advice, especially the part about the variation of jets, this is more important than number. A variation of seat depths is good also.

Check out this link there is some good info there. http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.ph...ic=7877&hl=

I posted a part on there about making a list.

[Water Boy]

Quarry,

This is one of those never ending debates, but IMO both spas filter very good. One thing that Arctic Spas use in their filtration is the disposable Micropure filter. You never have to clean it at all. Use it for 3-4 months, and throw it in the trash and put in a new one. Also, there is 900 sq ft of material in the filter, compared to the 50 square foot cartridge filter.

Here is a blurb I took off of the website you can look at:

The Micropure filter removes 94 percent of microscopic water-borne particles. Hope this helps out some.

[Tailhooker]

Quarry,

This is one of those never ending debates, but IMO both spas filter very good. One thing that Arctic Spas use in their filtration is the disposable Micropure filter. You never have to clean it at all. Use it for 3-4 months, and throw it in the trash and put in a new one. Also, there is 900 sq ft of material in the filter, compared to the 50 square foot cartridge filter.

Here is a blurb I took off of the website you can look at:

The Micropure filter removes 94 percent of microscopic water-borne particles. Hope this helps out some.

How much do those filters cost though?

[wylekioti]

Quarry,

This is one of those never ending debates, but IMO both spas filter very good. One thing that Arctic Spas use in their filtration is the disposable Micropure filter. You never have to clean it at all. Use it for 3-4 months, and throw it in the trash and put in a new one. Also, there is 900 sq ft of material in the filter, compared to the 50 square foot cartridge filter.

Here is a blurb I took off of the website you can look at:

The Micropure filter removes 94 percent of microscopic water-borne particles. Hope this helps out some.

How much do those filters cost though?

At the Artic dealer I went to, if I remember correctly, was under $20 so cost per year would be about $60 US/. Other brands I have looked at with the paper filter, when I asked about the cost of filters, I was told to replace them was from $75 up to $150. The $75 paper was to be replaced once a year and the $150 pack the salesman claimed would go 2 years. From what I understand, the paper type can be cleaned several times and need to be in the course of a year. Correct me if I am wrong, but thought someone said you use a chemical for cleaning these. Dont know what that cost would be. The other side is I know you can buy the paper from sources that are cheeper than the dealers but then if your not supporting your local dealer, will they be able to stay in business and be there when you need them. Just a thought.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Do they sell these micron filters in sizes that fit other brand tubs say if people wanted to switch over. Do they work well with the small circulation pumps? Do they clog up easy? I am very curious.....I have heard of them but have not seen any yet...

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

I answered my own question, I found them online but I am not seeing them for $20.00. The prices I see are very close to the cost of a paper filter (In the swim).

Plus, if you can get them for any tub, it takes Arctics advantage away for this sales point. Any tub could have these filters. My fear is the tubs with small circ pumps being able to handle pulling water through them. Nice concept if the price for them was $20.00! No filter cleaning would not hurt my feelings!

[Water Boy]

I answered my own question, I found them online but I am not seeing them for $20.00. The prices I see are very close to the cost of a paper filter (In the swim).

Plus, if you can get them for any tub, it takes Arctics advantage away for this sales point. Any tub could have these filters. My fear is the tubs with small circ pumps being able to handle pulling water through them. Nice concept if the price for them was $20.00! No filter cleaning would not hurt my feelings!

Hillbilly,

We sell the filters for 24.95, and we sell the paper cartridge filters for $39.95, so that is a pretty big price difference.

Also the filters are made by a company called Micropure. When they first started making these, it was a exclusive to Arctic. But it is to my understanding, they are now branching out and making different types and sizes for filters for other brands. Hope that helps.

[Roger]

Quarry,

This is one of those never ending debates, but IMO both spas filter very good. One thing that Arctic Spas use in their filtration is the disposable Micropure filter. You never have to clean it at all. Use it for 3-4 months, and throw it in the trash and put in a new one. Also, there is 900 sq ft of material in the filter, compared to the 50 square foot cartridge filter.

Here is a blurb I took off of the website you can look at:

The Micropure filter removes 94 percent of microscopic water-borne particles. Hope this helps out some.

How much do those filters cost though?

At the Artic dealer I went to, if I remember correctly, was under $20 so cost per year would be about $60 US/. Other brands I have looked at with the paper filter, when I asked about the cost of filters, I was told to replace them was from $75 up to $150. The $75 paper was to be replaced once a year and the $150 pack the salesman claimed would go 2 years. From what I understand, the paper type can be cleaned several times and need to be in the course of a year. Correct me if I am wrong, but thought someone said you use a chemical for cleaning these. Dont know what that cost would be. The other side is I know you can buy the paper from sources that are cheeper than the dealers but then if your not supporting your local dealer, will they be able to stay in business and be there when you need them. Just a thought.

A 50 SF filter runs about 20 bucks here. And I can make 3 of them last for 5-6 years.

[Pathfinder]

The micropure are the exact same size as C4950 I will have to disagree with the exclusivity angle in Canada the were readily available everywhere. I have found with large bather loads as in the summer time they can last as short as a month all thanks to tanning oils, make up, creams etc. The micropure filter is good for people who are just learning about chemistry or have no time to micromanage their spa. My preference is Micro in the summer and a regular 50sft pleated for winter.

[Water Boy]

That may be true in Canada Pathy as I am in the US. Thats funny because in my area, lots of people use the cartridge in the summer, and the disposable in the winter so you dont have to clean them. Different stroks for differnt folks!!

The actual size of phyiscal dimensions of the filters are the same, meaning they are both 13 1/4" long, but the Micropure has 900 sq ft of material in it vs 50 sq ft that comes in the C-4950.

[Greg D.]

As said earlier, I would be careful that the smaller pumps can suck water through a filter that the tub was not designed for. The 1 micron pore size will definately cause the filter to clog up sooner. We used the same type of filter in photo processing equipment and when they were left in the soup too long and clogged, even a small pump had enough pull to cause the filter to collapse. Once the filter was this dirty we had overheat problems due to lack of circulation. The big jet pumps on hot tubs may do a number on these filters if not changed out often enough. A smaller micron rating will mean many more filter changes.

Greg.

[Stevie]

We are such a "throw away" society aren't we...

My only experience was many years ago with these and I was far from impressed. I was even asked to be a territory rep for Micrpure and based on the results of the filter given to me, I declined the position. Now, these most likely have changed since the inception but I found them to fall apart, clog up, put additional pressure on the filtration system and there were issues with people using clarifiers and such with these filters.

I never found paper filters to be an expensive part of spa ownership nor time consuming. My Beachcomber had 1 filter that was $34.99 and I had 2 of them to alternate between cleanings once a month. Both would last 2-3 years with proper cleaning and maintenance and I spent about 10 minutes a month cleaning them. I didn't see a demand for these Micropure filters and I still don't. I certainly wouldn't want the expense if I had 6 filters!! OUCH!!

Even back a number of years ago, they had sizes for almost every type of spa.

[wylekioti]

I read one owners manual for a spa that states: The water in the tub should be changed once a month because the "paper" filter does not remove... and they listed a long line of contamination. Now the filter may last a year or two, but if it does not really filter the water and the water must be drained every month, what kind of cost is that in water bill, chemicals, electric (to reheat), and time?

Think that it is interesting that this information on spa maintenance is kept to the owners manual. I realize this may not be true for all brands of spas with paper filters, I have not read all the owners manuals. But thought it to be a consideration on what filter is really a filter. If you were filtering your drinking water, would you choose a filter that removed everything possible or one that states "This takes out the big chunks but will not remove anything harmful"

I thought the purpose of the filter was to keep the water usable. If contamination after a month of spa use with a filter, still requires the complete changing of the water, why even have one?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I read one owners manual for a spa that states: The water in the tub should be changed once a month because the "paper" filter does not remove... and they listed a long line of contamination. Now the filter may last a year or two, but if it does not really filter the water and the water must be drained every month, what kind of cost is that in water bill, chemicals, electric (to reheat), and time?

That is laughable and was probably written to sell more of the disposable type filters. You can go 4 months with no problem between refills with pleated filters and I go longer. Where did you read that?

I'm with Steve, I hate to be part of the throw away society and pleated filters have worked well for years. Micro pure filters work fine too and some may say they filter better but to me they were designed first and foremost to sell more filters. I’m fine with that as long as the argument isn’t used that the pleated are substandard and they use scare tactics by saying you need to change the water monthly if you use pleated. Standard pleated filters work fine as well, cost much less and last much longer. Go with whichever you want, either will do the job fine.

[Water Boy]

I agree completely. Just because one uses a pleated cartridge filter does not mean you need to drain it every month. That is just BS. I still believe that the cartridge filters filter very good. The main benefit about the disposable filters that people like is that you don’t have to clean them, just throw them away. That is extremely nice November through February in our area when it is extremely cold.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

The main benefit about the disposable filters that people like is that you don’t have to clean them, just throw them away. That is extremely nice November through February in our area when it is extremely cold.

Good point. As much as I'm not a fan of the disposable type I can see someone running them for those 3 or 4 worst winter months if they don't have good facilities to clean their filters in the dead of winter and then switch back to the pleated in March or so.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

I agree completely. Just because one uses a pleated cartridge filter does not mean you need to drain it every month. That is just BS. I still believe that the cartridge filters filter very good. The main benefit about the disposable filters that people like is that you don’t have to clean them, just throw them away. That is extremely nice November through February in our area when it is extremely cold.

Are they Biodegradable or are we adding to our landfills?

[wylekioti]

I read one owners manual for a spa that states: The water in the tub should be changed once a month because the "paper" filter does not remove... and they listed a long line of contamination. Now the filter may last a year or two, but if it does not really filter the water and the water must be drained every month, what kind of cost is that in water bill, chemicals, electric (to reheat), and time?

That is laughable and was probably written to sell more of the disposable type filters. You can go 4 months with no problem between refills with pleated filters and I go longer. Where did you read that?

I'm with Steve, I hate to be part of the throw away society and pleated filters have worked well for years. Micro pure filters work fine too and some may say they filter better but to me they were designed first and foremost to sell more filters. I’m fine with that as long as the argument isn’t used that the pleated are substandard and they use scare tactics by saying you need to change the water monthly if you use pleated. Standard pleated filters work fine as well, cost much less and last much longer. Go with whichever you want, either will do the job fine.

I guess I should have stated that this was an owners manual (found on line, at the company's web site) for a brand that uses a single paper filter and has no mention of any other filter design. It was just stating how to care for your new tub. This was not an ad for filter or pushing one design over another. The spa manufacturer was just telling that with this paper filter, you will need to change your water monthly because the filter does not remove all the contaminent from the water. What does your owners manual say if you have paper filters about the frequency of changing the water? Is it just this one brand ??(I dont want to bring in the name to protect the "sillyness" of this associated with this brand)

From what I have seen, the components of the paper filter are not that biodegradable looking at the ends, however, I saw a micro-pure on the shelf and did not see the large silicon rubber ends on it, or whatever they are made of. As far as filling up landfills.. stop the manufacture of disposable diapers and plastic water bottles.. and things like that where true volume is insane. Automotive filters pose a much larger problem that a few spa filters, give me a break.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

As far as filling up landfills.. stop the manufacture of disposable diapers and plastic water bottles.. and things like that where true volume is insane. Automotive filters pose a much larger problem that a few spa filters, give me a break.

wyletokioti,

Just because disposable spa filters are not the worst problem for landfills doesn't mean we can't think it's a shame that they contribute. All the things you mentioned are problematic and while disposable filters aren't at the top of the list they are on the list (and no I do NOT buy plastic water bottles for that very reason and we used cloth diapers when my kids were little (not 100% but a lot, as much as we could)).

Now back to spa talk!

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

I was not trying to be a pain since paper filters also effect our landfills, I thought maybe they might biodegrade, making them more of a value in many peoples eyes....sprry I ruffled you feathers. Every little step we do to help the environment the better as far as I am concerned. If I can recycle, reduce, reuse...I do. Some things are unavoidable at this point....this is where we need to progress....which...back to spas....why they are coming out with companies that make "green spas".

[wylekioti]

No feathers ruffled and sorry if I ruffled any. I am wanting to buy a spa that will be economical and efficient for years of use. I just would like to know what the facts are from people with experience with various filtering methods and overall costs. I did find another manufacturer who says water change every 6 months and uses the paper filter system and change the filters once a year with monthly cleaning. My question is still, if anyone could answer, how often do you change out the water with each of the filter systems? (Looking at main topic) In other words, how long to the Artic ppl run with a tub of water before draining vs. other filtering systems (paper, sock, grandma's nylons....)

Do Artic owners find they really use less chemicals with this filter? Oh no.. could I have opened a new door about empty bottles for chemicals hitting landfills are higher for paper filter users? ACK! Sorry!