Help With Final Decision

[waterboy]

We began our search for the best spa as per the attached thread and appreciate everyones help so far

http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.ph...9&hl=advice

We have finally wet tested all of the spas in the area except for the Cal Avalon 844L which we will test this friday night. Tested were:

Arctic summit legend series and klondiker signature series

Sundance Cameo and Optima

Coast Spas Helios and similar no lounge model with 55 jets

Pacific Spas Calypso loaded except for serenity package and stereo

Hotsprings Envoy

Beachcomber 750

Clearwater pebble beach loaded.

Jacuzzi 470 and 480

As noted previously I am just under 6 feet with a long torso and my wife is 5'4"

Our final choices are in order of preference

1) Pacific spas Calypso

Pros

system 3 water purification which includes Genesis salt water UV and CD ozone

Execellent jetting, massage therapy and fit us both well

Very simple to use with one diverter and toggle air controls instead of turning knobs

Power dome foot jets and adjustable calfs/achilles jets.

Very easy to get in and out of with 3 step entrance which doubles as cool down seat

locally manufactured and good dealership

Cons

Price was more than we wanted to spend at $11,389 + taxes delivery included

No aroma therapy, lights or waterfall

2) Sundance Cameo

Pros

Only lounge seat that fit me perfectly. Worked for the wife too.

Execellent jetting and massage therapy

Had all of the bell and whistles including aromatherapy, waterfall and lights

price was $9800 +delivery and this was only the dealers first price

Liked the dealership

Cons

Only has CD ozone which may mean more water management

Good filter system is expensive but can use cheaper filters wash etc

not made locally

no genesis system

3) Arctic Klondiker signature

pros

Salt water and ozone system

Double lounger that fit both of us

Locally made and good dealership

Good massage therapy

Seems to be the best in energy efficiency

Cons

positioning and type of jets on Sundance and pacific offer slightly better hydrotherapy

noisier than the other tubs

Price is more than we want to spend at approx $11500 + delivery with Ozone, forever floor cover lifter, salt system, better cabinet and some extra jets for shoulder and back.

4) Beachcomber 750

Pros

Great seating configuration with 2 seats that can double as loungers

removable jets that can be swapped back and forth for change in type of massage at each seat

30 day no charge jet change deal

Free filter and water testing for life and dealer is closest to us.

Uv and ozone included

Seats fit us both well

Protec equipment system under steps and full insulation for better energy efficiency

cons

Massage was better on Pacific and Calypso

More expensive at $11400 + delivery

no salt water system

We will be going back to retest the sundance and beachcomber just to make sure that the Pacific is worth the extra expense and/or is better.

As an addition to the above Jacuzzi dealer called tonight and may offer us a good deal on a j365 which fits me. We will still have to wet test this model. We preferred the 400 series over the 300 series.

We look forward to your comments and recommendations. We really liked the feel of the genesis salt water systems on our skin after exiting the tub and the total lack of smell when in the tub. The water also seems to be very clear with the Pacific System 3 purification

[RickJ]

Buy the tub that you like the best. In two years, the money that you saved by buying something you didn't like as much will be long forgotten. Then you'll be stuck wishing that you had bought your first choice.

I don't know anything about any of the brands that you are looking at. But if your research has convinced you that the Pacific is a good brand, and you like the way it fits you, I'd go for that one. Maybe wet test it again, to see if you still like it as much the second time.

Hopefully smarter people will give you some advice about the features and quality of the brands you are considering.

[thestallion]

I think the above poster offers some great advice. I would caution you on salt water systems and ozone. I do not know yet of a salt water system that has proven it self to be long lasting and reliable YET for above ground spas maybe they are coming soon maybe the one you mention will turn out to be a winner but as of now, none have really proven themselves and many have tried. Also UV or CD ozone there are good units for each of them but their genuine and true benefit in spas is highly debatable. I have said this many times before but a regular and consistent water care routine will prove itself to be reliable with less time and effort and long term costs than thinking some salt water or super high end ozone unit will be. If you will spend about ten minutes a week caring for your water, just keeping it in balance, rinsing your filters, shocking, etc...you will have sparkling clean water with just about any filtering system that's on the market.

[Roger]

I think the above poster offers some great advice. I would caution you on salt water systems and ozone. I do not know yet of a salt water system that has proven it self to be long lasting and reliable YET for above ground spas maybe they are coming soon maybe the one you mention will turn out to be a winner but as of now, none have really proven themselves and many have tried. Also UV or CD ozone there are good units for each of them but their genuine and true benefit in spas is highly debatable. I have said this many times before but a regular and consistent water care routine will prove itself to be reliable with less time and effort and long term costs than thinking some salt water or super high end ozone unit will be. If you will spend about ten minutes a week caring for your water, just keeping it in balance, rinsing your filters, shocking, etc...you will have sparkling clean water with just about any filtering system that's on the market.

I agree with the above post. Any of the tubs mentioned will not have a noticable amount of water care effort over the next or any of the quality tubs on the market. No matter how they were marketed to you. Water care will be simple with or without a salt water system that IMO are not very reliable anyway. Ozone can only be looked at as a supplement to a good water care regimin. I also believe that no matter how they were marketed none will have a noticable effieciency advantage over the next.

You have chosen quality to test, and have done your home work, and with your choices it comes to comfort on your backside and in your dealer and wallet. Pretty much, which does the wife like?

[Kent Ohio]

We went with the Sundance CERTA, which has a lounge seat. So far we are very happy with it. We've had it about 2 months now....

[waterboy]

Thanks to everyone for their comments so far. The reason that we are looking at the salt water system is the wife found that her skin was not irritated or itchy at all when soaking in tubs with this system. We spent about 30 minutes in the Calypso. She has more sensitive skin and spas have always made her "itchy" even when all the ph levels etc were correct. She also liked the lack of smell

The wife liked the Calypso but as she said "the hot water is good enough for me". She is not as interested in the hydrotherapy as I am. That being said she enjoyed the lounger in the Arctic Klondiker and the foot dome and therapy seat in the Calypso. She fit perfectly in every spa we tried. I was the one having trouble finding a spa that fit me perfectly.

[Pathfinder]

As I have heard many say..."Happy Wife, Happy Life"

[cooold ohio]

Just a thought on salt water systems. I worked as a Structural Maintenance/Corrosion control specialist for 10 years and as a rule salt water + anything equaled corrosion eventually. My wife and I Wet tested just about every spa that you did and we decided on the Sundance Altamar. We have had our spa for 3 months now and LOVE it. The reason we picked Sundance was the filtration system, individual jet control and the wet test. Our second choice was the Arctic Klondiker the reason we did not chose Arctic was that we had the salesmen pull off the panels and turn on the jets when I saw how the piping moved each time the jets were turned on. I decided against Arctic. The mechanic in me said problems down the road with things coming loose

[waterboy]

Just a thought on salt water systems. I worked as a Structural Maintenance/Corrosion control specialist for 10 years and as a rule salt water + anything equaled corrosion eventually. My wife and I Wet tested just about every spa that you did and we decided on the Sundance Altamar. We have had our spa for 3 months now and LOVE it. The reason we picked Sundance was the filtration system, individual jet control and the wet test. Our second choice was the Arctic Klondiker the reason we did not chose Arctic was that we had the salesmen pull off the panels and turn on the jets when I saw how the piping moved each time the jets were turned on. I decided against Arctic. The mechanic in me said problems down the road with things coming loose

The genesis system is really not a "salt" water system. It is an automatic bromine generator. It may be that it is the clorine that makes the wife itchy but it might be me too

For an extra $700 it is worth a try. I have attached a link that explains the system. I am sure that others on this forum could explain it in better detail and offer the pros/cons of this system.

http://www.hottubessentials.com/genesis-br...e-generator.asp.

We also liked Sundance and will be going back to wet test the Cameo before making a final decison.

[thestallion]

Just a thought on salt water systems. I worked as a Structural Maintenance/Corrosion control specialist for 10 years and as a rule salt water + anything equaled corrosion eventually. My wife and I Wet tested just about every spa that you did and we decided on the Sundance Altamar. We have had our spa for 3 months now and LOVE it. The reason we picked Sundance was the filtration system, individual jet control and the wet test. Our second choice was the Arctic Klondiker the reason we did not chose Arctic was that we had the salesmen pull off the panels and turn on the jets when I saw how the piping moved each time the jets were turned on. I decided against Arctic. The mechanic in me said problems down the road with things coming loose

The genesis system is really not a "salt" water system. It is an automatic bromine generator. It may be that it is the clorine that makes the wife itchy but it might be me too

For an extra $700 it is worth a try. I have attached a link that explains the system. I am sure that others on this forum could explain it in better detail and offer the pros/cons of this system.

http://www.hottubessentials.com/genesis-br...e-generator.asp.

We also liked Sundance and will be going back to wet test the Cameo before making a final decison.

whatever works for you but bromine is a form of chlorine...You can very easily get into a routine at your home where when go to soak it will be almost like your bath water as far the chlorine levels go.

[Pathfinder]

The genesis system would be best explained HERE

In this thread when UV is mentioned its a UV sterilizer not UV ozone.

Im a big fan of the Bromine generator its quite simple when educated properly.

[Tom]

The genesis system is really not a "salt" water system. It is an automatic bromine generator.

There is some confusion because to a layman, "salt" means "table salt" while to a chemist, it has another meaning. "Salt water" usually refers to ocean water which is largely a sodium chloride solution. So with that connotation, the Genesis system is not a "salt water" or "salt" system.

However, sodium bromide (used in the Genesis) is "a salt" in every way that sodium chloride (table salt) is "a salt", or potassium iodide, or magnesium chloride. In that sense the Genesis system is "a salt" system. Confusing, but I've seen many such references in industry literature. I much prefer the designation "automatic bromine generator" because it is clear which sanitizer is being used.

To make things even more confusing, I've seen systems that claim to use "sea salt". This may mislead some users with chlorine allergies to purchase a system totally inappropriate to their needs, since "sea salt" is largely sodium chloride with a few other salts thrown in. This one should be called an "automatic chlorine generator".

[Roger]

Thanks to everyone for their comments so far. The reason that we are looking at the salt water system is the wife found that her skin was not irritated or itchy at all when soaking in tubs with this system.

A properly implemented Chlorine system in a home Hot Tub will have you soaking in levels of Chlorine as low or close to a municipal water level (your shower). Almost 0 PPM Chlorine. A Bromine system will have higher levels of Chlorine during soaking than a proper Chlorine system. Now if your wife is irritated because of a Chlorine level in say a public hot tub that is understandable because they re required to maintain a constant level of 3-5 PPM Chlorine at all times. At home you can let your levels drop to almost 0 PPM for your soak, and then sanitize when you are done. At the speed Chlorine dissapates you will be back to almost 0 PPM the next day.

It's actualy very simple to do.

[Tom]

whatever works for you but bromine is a form of chlorine...You can very easily get into a routine at your home where when go to soak it will be almost like your bath water as far the chlorine levels go.

Ooops. Chlorine and bromine are totally different chemicals. Both are effective sanitizers, and I'll guess that thestallion meant that bromine is a form of sanitizer like chlorine.

[thestallion]

whatever works for you but bromine is a form of chlorine...You can very easily get into a routine at your home where when go to soak it will be almost like your bath water as far the chlorine levels go.

Ooops. Chlorine and bromine are totally different chemicals. Both are effective sanitizers, and I'll guess that thestallion meant that bromine is a form of sanitizer like chlorine.

Oh Tommy ya better check again chlorine is found in bromine and if you add chlorine to bromine system it will covert to bromine.

[waterboy]

Boy did I ever muddy the water with the Genesis system comments

Any more thoughts on our hot tub selections, satisfaction with the manufacturers, any problems with the specific manufacturers and how you are enjoying your spas if it is one of our selected spas.

As many of you have stated wet test the spas and we have done that. All 4 of our selections would work for us for the actual fit.

SunDance was more economical but if I remove the Genesis systems and UV sterilization from the other tubs they are all comparable in price.

I believe the pacific and sundance offered the best massage, but the swapping of jets in the beachcomber was a neat gimmick and the Arctic definitely also gave a good massage. It is almost a toss up and after our final retests we may just go with who we thought was the best dealership and maybe whether they will offer a discount from their original quotations.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Oh Tommy ya better check again chlorine is found in bromine and if you add chlorine to bromine system it will covert to bromine.

I've always understood that chlorine will free up any bromine that is in a bromimine state (revert the bromimine back to bromine) but its news to me that chlorine somehow becomes bromine.

Standard bromine tabs are normally about one quarter chlorine.

[thestallion]

Oh Tommy ya better check again chlorine is found in bromine and if you add chlorine to bromine system it will covert to bromine.

I've always understood that chlorine will free up any bromine that is in a bromimine state (revert the bromimine back to bromine) but its news to me that chlorine somehow becomes bromine.

Standard bromine tabs are normally about one quarter chlorine.

Tech,

2) things one it is my understanding that when you add chlorine to a bromine system it does "morph" or convert to bromine. And I believe you are correct about the tabs being about 25% chlorine we may be off on the % but it is close. But Tom says "Chlorine and bromine are totally different chemicals"...I guess that may be technically correct I genuinely do not know but Chlorine is in Bromine and that was my point and I thought it was more easily communicated in the way I phrased but perhaps I am wrong.

[Pathfinder]

Lets stop trying to confuse people more and offer tub advice on which Waterboy is looking for.

Why is it only on this forum someone wants to buy something and then we get a bunch of people telling them its no good and the topic goes off on a wild tangent.

The dispute about Chlorine and bromine can be discussed in the chem part of the board folks.

[thestallion]

Lets stop trying to confuse people more and offer tub advice on which Waterboy is looking for.

Why is it only on this forum someone wants to buy something and then we get a bunch of people telling them its no good and the topic goes off on a wild tangent.

The dispute about Chlorine and bromine can be discussed in the chem part of the board folks.

Slow down nobody said it was no good in fact if you go back and reread the posts it was said he was doing the right thing and it was echoed by several folks. It was only mentioned that ozone and salt systems were not something to put a great deal of importance on and that just about any spa with proper care would keep his water clean. He was the one who seemed to be weighting his decision on things that people felt would not out weigh the importance of finding the spa that fit him and his wife the best. I think he has gotten some unbiased and solid information here.

As far Bromine and Chlorine goes its better to let someone know now that one is part of other so that if someone who is actually trying to sell him something and who very much has a agenda, he can least be a little bit more informed.

[tony]

Chlorine and bromine are different chemicals. Bromine tabs, however, are part chlorine and part bromine. Chlorine reacts with bromine in the same way that MPS reacts with bromine.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Boy did I ever muddy the water with the Genesis system comments

Any more thoughts on our hot tub selections, satisfaction with the manufacturers, any problems with the specific manufacturers and how you are enjoying your spas if it is one of our selected spas.

As many of you have stated wet test the spas and we have done that. All 4 of our selections would work for us for the actual fit.

SunDance was more economical but if I remove the Genesis systems and UV sterilization from the other tubs they are all comparable in price.

I believe the pacific and sundance offered the best massage, but the swapping of jets in the beachcomber was a neat gimmick and the Arctic definitely also gave a good massage. It is almost a toss up and after our final retests we may just go with who we thought was the best dealership and maybe whether they will offer a discount from their original quotations.

I would not worry about swapping jets around. Its probably not something you'll be doing even if you get that spa. I also wouldn't factor in the Genesis system at all. While I think a simple chlorine system is the way to go the reality is you're looking for the best SPA so get the spa you want and then decide how to sanitize it. If the spa you want doesn't have the Genesis then who cares, get the right spa and then go with chlorine, bromine, Spa Frog or Genesis afterward. Later you'll find that water care is not magic so don't let that sway you.

[thestallion]

Chlorine and bromine are different chemicals. Bromine tabs, however, are part chlorine and part bromine. Chlorine reacts with bromine in the same way that MPS reacts with bromine.

Tony that was the point I was trying to make. I did a poor job of it. I personally find that bromine has more of a odor to it than does dichlor when used properly used. Even small amounts of bromine have a distinct odor that I do not care for.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Tony that was the point I was trying to make. I did a poor job of it. I personally find that bromine has more of a odor to it than does dichlor when used properly used. Even small amounts of bromine have a distinct odor that I do not care for.

Ditto.

[Roger]

Ditto.

Ditto, ditto.