Going To Take Heat For This

[TravelingSpaGuy]

Attention readers, these are my opinions in spas, if you are looking for a spa this is just things in spas a unbiased spa guy likes and dislikes in hot tubs. If you agree fine, if not I dont personally care either

fun new things I found I like-

Bullfrog, not very big name in spas but they are a fun spa to sell and pretty cool idea. If any dealers are reading this I would consider picking them up-talk about an easy spa to sell and for good reason, it has the funnest story of any spa.

chemical system-aqua finesse. I am actually looking into becoming a rep for this company it is so easy to sell and help sell spas. I actually used it for 3 weeks and it worked great. Probably wont happen though but I now recommend all customers to this product. If you have any questions on it you can PM me and I can explain how it works.

spa scenes-this system is pretty cool too after looking at it, its a picture that turns a boring cover into a fun one-I havent personally seen this but was told they are using materials ozone and chemical offgas wont ruin. Hard to believe but ok.

-my- top brands in order

high end

d1

hot springs

sundance

(drop off after these)

midrange

Marquis

Caldera

Jacuzzi

Bullfrog (I really liked them after I saw the factory and got really into the contruction and everything...seriously an undermarketed but very sellable tub.)

Things I dont like-

Ozone-I am sick of people talking about how good ozone is, only ozones I believe that actually work are the d1 and la spas because they the only ones that break down all offgas. Funny thing is working in a showroom customers would have a 5+ year old spa talking about how well there ozone works...when ozone wouldnt work efficently after 3 years. They didnt even notice the difference

FAKE PUMP SIZES. If someone tells you they use a 6 HP+ pump just walk away. Each HP=740watts, based on that if you had 12 HP you would need 100amp breaker

non-insulated spas claiming they as or more efficent then insulated spas. Use common sense, less is not more.

Steel framed spas, TV spas, Thermospas.

Costco spas claiming to be less margins, when all other products they sell from video games to watches are the same price (or in watches) more money then other stores.

again I know I will get heat but wanted to let people know my opinion while I was bored. Havent had alot of posting time lately

[thestallion]

What size pumps does D-1 use ?

[TravelingSpaGuy]

why take a shot at me, I tried to explain it was my opinion. Its fine, be an internet tough guy. I hope these opinions help other people when making a spa decision. What did you disagree with Stallion?

[TravelingSpaGuy]

and it obviously depends on the tub your looking at as far as what size pumps...but they do list both bhp and chp on the website...you can look for yourself.

[TinyBubbles]

What part of that was unbiased?

[powernoodle]

Like he said....... Its his opinion!

cheers=)

[TinyBubbles]

Like he said....... Its his opinion!

cheers=)

Exactly. Since when are opinions of someone in the business "unbiased"?

[thestallion]

why take a shot at me, I tried to explain it was my opinion. Its fine, be an internet tough guy. I hope these opinions help other people when making a spa decision. What did you disagree with Stallion?

You blow into town and suddenly your selling Bullfrog for a week so you become a fan of theirs, by your own admission if you came to work a event and the spas your were selling were not in your group, you would still sell them make all of the dollars that could from them while nothing being but positive about them they and how great they are. If you want to deny this go ahead but only the naive would believe you. If tomorrow there was a big event with much money to be made and the spas were steel frame with ozone standard you would back them, so please take your traveling carny crap and peddle it to someone who cares about "your flavor of the day" ... your unsolicited opinion is [not] wanted or needed.

[thestallion]

You say your unbiased, but are part of the of the road team for D-1 and Sundance.

[Tom]

You blow into town and suddenly your selling Bullfrog for a week so you become a fan of theirs, by your own admission if you came to work a event and the spas your were selling were not in your group, you would still sell them make all of the dollars that could from them while nothing being but positive about them they and how great they are. If you want to deny this go ahead but only the naive would believe you. If tomorrow there was a big event with much money to be made and the spas were steel frame with ozone standard you would back them...your unsolicited opinion is [not] wanted or needed.

The poster's signature claims a lack of bias against any particular brand, but the opening post clearly stated that the content was nothing but personal taste and professional opinion. Surely we can live with that discrepancy, or point it out with humour or satire.

You are welcome to disagree with the opinions expressed (by all means give your reasons for doing so; opinions without facts to back them up are mere puffery) but attacks against the person are contrary to board guidelines and have been removed.

[TravelingSpaGuy]

You blow into town and suddenly your selling Bullfrog for a week so you become a fan of theirs, by your own admission if you came to work a event and the spas your were selling were not in your group, you would still sell them make all of the dollars that could from them while nothing being but positive about them they and how great they are. If you want to deny this go ahead but only the naive would believe you. If tomorrow there was a big event with much money to be made and the spas were steel frame with ozone standard you would back them, so please take your traveling carny crap and peddle it to someone who cares about "your flavor of the day" ... your unsolicited opinion is [not] wanted or needed.

You dont like me because I dont talk up your particular brand. I will probably NEVER sell bullfrog again because I am currently working my last hot tub show. And I have actually recommended Bullfrog as a second line to a few dealers who call me and ask my opinion on things. I have family things going on and am getting out of hot tub sales, I am sick of the retail sales side of the industry. Just so you know I have not sold Sundance ONCE this year, and NDS which is the Sundance sales team requires you sell strictly to their brand so I could never be on their team nor have ever been on their team. I have also never mentioned once which particular brand I am selling at one time or another and your right, if I was selling metal frames I would try to sell it...BUT NOT ON THIS BOARD. I have nothing to gain nor lose from whats said on here because the chance of me coming in contact with a customer who reads one of my posts is about 0. Will I say things against my personal hot tub beliefs when speaking with a customer...ofcourse, but I have no reason to on this board. I have nothing to gain nor lose about talking up bullfrog, if they had a better marketing department they could also have a bigger name in the industry probably similar to Artesian could if they tried harder to become a more well known company. Why dont you just start ignoring my threads or comments.

Tom-thanks for the support, I appreciate it.

Exactly. Since when are opinions of someone in the business "unbiased"?

when the person has nothing to lose or gain by anything someone reads on this forum

[thestallion]

I give you credit, You made me laugh as you are so blind to your own hypocrisy, it is genuinely amusing. I am right about metal frame spas but not on this board. Do you have any clue at all about how you just exposed yourself to what your really are all about, It is a bit like saying I would never cheat on my wife if I knew I was going to get caught. Good luck in your new venture and Thanks for being you....

[thestallion]

Oh and by the way, you need to go back reread your own post in another theread as you mention you have no issue when selling Sundance about showing the equipment bay.

[Tom]

Tom-thanks for the support, I appreciate it.

My comments were in no way intended as support for you or for your statements, merely an attempt to ensure compliance with the forum guidelines.

All members are encouraged to discuss the content of a thread while avoiding personal attacks, name-calling and the alike - anything which is "abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing...[or] threatening"

[TravelingSpaGuy]

stallion, you turn threads about hot tubs into personal attacks, not even giving your own opinion but your for your dislike towards me. I have no reason to lie on this board, I listed personal things I like and dislike about the hot tub industry, if someone is looking for a tub and they want different opinions on different tubs I hope they take mine with a grain of salt. I dont expect to gain anything financially by anything I ever type on here, please stop insulting me when I make posts of my own opinion. I am guessing by your other posts you sell Marquis, and just because I feel Marquis takes the fun out of owning a hot tub just so less things can go wrong you bash me. I believe in spas that use circ pumps, you do not...fine, I like moving jets because they feel nicer...Marquis knows they can break so doesnt put them in there (warranty claims are expensive) I like a nice soft pillow for my head to rest against while the warm water sooths my day away...even though in a few years I might need to buy a new one....these things are our simple opinion...instead of making a personal attack come up with your own points and supporting arguements and we can talk about the subject.

Tom just saying thanks for the support about no personal attacks

[Stevie]

stallion, you turn threads about hot tubs into personal attacks, not even giving your own opinion but your for your dislike towards me. I have no reason to lie on this board, I listed personal things I like and dislike about the hot tub industry, if someone is looking for a tub and they want different opinions on different tubs I hope they take mine with a grain of salt. I dont expect to gain anything financially by anything I ever type on here, please stop insulting me when I make posts of my own opinion. I am guessing by your other posts you sell Marquis, and just because I feel Marquis takes the fun out of owning a hot tub just so less things can go wrong you bash me. I believe in spas that use circ pumps, you do not...fine, I like moving jets because they feel nicer...Marquis knows they can break so doesnt put them in there (warranty claims are expensive) I like a nice soft pillow for my head to rest against while the warm water sooths my day away...even though in a few years I might need to buy a new one....these things are our simple opinion...instead of making a personal attack come up with your own points and supporting arguements and we can talk about the subject.

Tom just saying thanks for the support about no personal attacks

I applaud our Traveling friend for his up front honesty. It's not his "opinions" here that are being questioned but rather his choice of sales methods. We do what we have to to pay the bills and although it's not for all of us, he certainly comes across to me as open minded and intelligent. Like what he does or not... I couldn't do it but I don't discredit him for doing so. Not everyone is as pastionate about a certain product as some of us and sometimes, that can be a good thing.

Sales is difficult as it is and entering that lifestyle would make it even harder I would imagine. I can honestly say that in almost 10 years on various spa forums, I have NEVER benefited financially from doing so, so there's no motivation there. Let's all keep that in mind...

So what's on the radar next for you after spa sales? The beauty industry maybe?

Steve

[TravelingSpaGuy]

I could not join the beauty industry, I am so naturally pretty I wouldnt beable to relate with my customer : )

The traveling game isnt easy, I have met some of the best and worst people in my life who do this job. It takes a kind of dumb person to subject themselves to this...but everyone has a calling. I think I want to write a book about the traveling spa sales person and his amiegos

[Stevie]

I could not join the beauty industry, I am so naturally pretty I wouldnt beable to relate with my customer : )

The traveling game isnt easy, I have met some of the best and worst people in my life who do this job. It takes a kind of dumb person to subject themselves to this...but everyone has a calling. I think I want to write a book about the traveling spa sales person and his amiegos

I'm naturally BUTT UGLY so they feel sorry for me and buy LOTS!

Best & worst... I know EXACTLY what you mean!

After my last contract was coming to an end, I re-evaluated and determined that my skill set (like yours) could be applied to so many different industries and I began networking and exploring my options. Life is short and it's all about our experiences so I opened my mind to experiencing new things. It's the best move I ever made as I make more money than I ever have and travel far less!

Never in a million years did I see myself doing what I'm doing now.. Life is funny that way...

Best of luck!

Steve

[thestallion]

stallion, you turn threads about hot tubs into personal attacks, not even giving your own opinion but your for your dislike towards me. I have no reason to lie on this board, I listed personal things I like and dislike about the hot tub industry, if someone is looking for a tub and they want different opinions on different tubs I hope they take mine with a grain of salt. I dont expect to gain anything financially by anything I ever type on here, please stop insulting me when I make posts of my own opinion. I am guessing by your other posts you sell Marquis, and just because I feel Marquis takes the fun out of owning a hot tub just so less things can go wrong you bash me. I believe in spas that use circ pumps, you do not...fine, I like moving jets because they feel nicer...Marquis knows they can break so doesnt put them in there (warranty claims are expensive) I like a nice soft pillow for my head to rest against while the warm water sooths my day away...even though in a few years I might need to buy a new one....these things are our simple opinion...instead of making a personal attack come up with your own points and supporting arguements and we can talk about the subject.

Tom just saying thanks for the support about no personal attacks

Don't twist things that are said, I don't have the tolerance for people who want to come in act as like their opinion means anymore than anyone else. I would never make a list of whats good about other tubs out of respect for the owners and sellers of other products, apparently You so impressed by the sound of your own voice so much that you offer up your opinion when it was never asked for. Anyone can start a list of what they like and don't like about anything and everything. Do you really think that anything constructive would come out of it if we all did so ? If not than why should you do so such a thing. So much of what you say is so transparent. You side step issue's like if you could make a buck off a product that you don't like than its all good as long no one reads this board and catches you doing so, in a nut shell that's what your saying. You like pillows but please stop the sales BS nice soft, show me the spa pillow that attaches to the spa that's soft, and make sure when you do you tell me let me know that this won't last so that's why we don't warranty them. Nice tip toeing around the Sundance statement that make you made differently in two threads. I just find the sooner people like you leave the industry the better it is for all concerned. That's not a personal attack just my opinion.

[Chas]

It takes a kind of dumb person to subject themselves to this...but everyone has a calling.

Thank-you.

[thestallion]

quote name='TravelingSpaGuy' date='Sep 25 2007, 07:58 AM' post='39035']

You dont like me because I dont talk up your particular brand. I will probably NEVER sell bullfrog again because I am currently working my last hot tub show. And I have actually recommended Bullfrog as a second line to a few dealers who call me and ask my opinion on things. I have family things going on and am getting out of hot tub sales, I am sick of the retail sales side of the industry. Just so you know I have not sold Sundance ONCE this year, and NDS which is the Sundance sales team requires you sell strictly to their brand so I could never be on their team nor have ever been on their team. I have also never mentioned once which particular brand I am selling at one time or another and your right, if I was selling metal frames I would try to sell it...BUT NOT ON THIS BOARD. I have nothing to gain nor lose from whats said on here because the chance of me coming in contact with a customer who reads one of my posts is about 0. Will I say things against my personal hot tub beliefs when speaking with a customer...ofcourse, but I have no reason to on this board. I have nothing to gain nor lose about talking up bullfrog, if they had a better marketing department they could also have a bigger name in the industry probably similar to Artesian could if they tried harder to become a more well known company. Why dont you just start ignoring my threads or comments.

I just wanted to Thank you again for helping me paint a very clear picture of just who you are and what you stand for. What you are saying is that if it means a dollar in your pocket you will say just about anything even if you don't believe it yourself. Understand its not about personal attacks, for me its about just how low some will go, if I get called out for simply pointing this out than so be it.

[D.P. Roberts]

Will I say things against my personal hot tub beliefs when speaking with a customer...ofcourse, but I have no reason to on this board.

1) I disagree with you here, I think - it depends on what you mean by "personal hot tub beliefs". I'm trying to get into the hot tub industry, and in looking at the dealers around me I really had to think about which brands I could sell honestly. I personally prefer some brands over others, but that doesn't mean I couldn't sell them. But there were some brands that I personally couldn't represent - if a customer asked me "Will this tub give me years of trouble free service?" or "Is this brand as good as the top brands in the industry?" I couldn't look them in the eye and say "Yes". Those are my "beliefs". I have lots of opinions - which spas have the best filtration, which have the best jets, etc., and those are irrelevant to a spa buyer, and I wouldn't mind going against those, because other people - including shoppers - may disagree with me.

2) I think some of the hornet's nest in this thread ties into your very first post - as Tom said, "opinions without facts to back them up are mere puffery." So, what is it about D1, Hot Spring, and Sundance that makes them stand out above the other brands you mentioned? What is it about Marquis, Caldera, Jacuzzi, and Bullfrog that makes them a step below? You already pointed out a few things about Marquis - the lack of pillows, circ pumps, and spinning jets. Personally, I like their stance on pillows, I haven't made up my mind about the circ pump debate, and I'm with you on the spinning jets (although Marquis dealers are happy to point out that they'll sell spinning jets to you if you want them). On the whole, I think what you expressed about Marquis are opinions - if you have any facts to back up your conclusions as to what makes one company's products better than another, I would really like to hear them.

[thestallion]

DP

Help me out here am I the only person who reads in Traveling guys very own words, Its OK to lie or be less than truthful since again in his words "no who I talk to will ever see this board" ? I am mean for me and the ethical standards I try to adhere to that is blatant hypocrisy, As for spas I mentioned this already but we all can make a list of what we like and we also degrade another tub based on OUR OPINION, I try to use examples if I ever say something less the complementary about another's product but with things like pillows, first again in traveling guys words "soft pillows" thats fluff show me the soft spa pillow, they're all hard rubber like. Marquis position on this is that since no maker offers a warranty of substance for them and since most honest sale people admit they fail, than leave them off and a person can choose a soft pillow ( the movable ones are soft) if a person feels they need it, but there is a very credible argument to pillows in spas and it also includes sanitary issues that can arise. I am just pointing out pillows as an example and that we can debate spa design for hours, but when someone comes in and without prompting and goes here's what I think is the best and gives no credible reason, than its useless and even with reason if we all did that the board turns into a my daddy can whip your daddy sorta thing and none of it is really provable.

[D.P. Roberts]

Stallion, I think we're totally in agreement. You read TSG's statement a certain way, and that may be what he actually meant - I just want to give him the opportunity to clarify.

As for the pillows - as I stated above, I'm totally with Marquis on that one. The pillows on most spas are like rocks. If they were soft they'd be absorbent, and they'd soak up water and get filled with bacteria. I'd rather pay $10 each for inflatable pillows I have to replace every year or so than hundreds for replacement "rocks" that look nice but don't feel any more comfortable. It's a matter of opinion - some people may think cheapy inflatable pillows look awful, and wouldn't want them in their spa. As I tried to point out in my post, not having pillows (or spinning jets) does not necessarily make Marquis a worse spa than D1, Hot Spring, or Sundance - it's a design choice that you may or may not agree with. Personally, the more I learn about Marquis the more I like them. However, if TSG has something to say that really shows why his top three brands are better than Marquis, I want to hear it. I'm trying to learn everything I can about spas, so I would like to hear from TSG - or anyone, for that matter - why certain brands are truly better than others.

[thestallion]

DP

I think the problem here is that in this setting debating whose tub is best is not constucktive as it all comes down opinion and most all of us will have a certain prejudice. The issue I have is that it is useless to do and particularly when no opinion was solicited. Some of us, many of us are passionate about the brand we represent and if your going to degrade them than you better come with something of substance to do so. I mentioned something in another thread about Nordic if you care to seek it out and it points out something that is better than 2 of the spas on the Traveling mans list and its not opinion it is a simple build reality in the spas. The real Truth for me is that I like D-1, Hot Springs and Sundance more so than Marquis ? NO !but they are all good spas and anyone who bought one would most likely be happy. And to add I think Bullfrog is very well built as good as any of the others but they are not a new product I just learned about this week, I have known that for sometime and my posts will point to this.