Big Box Stores Vs. The National Brands

[avasicek]

I can personaly account for about 100 or so of these tubs. And the ones I have seen are mostly in the landfill. I do however have a few that are still running in my territory. Most make it for 6-8 years. A couple a little longer. Sams Club, one of my best service advocates.

This is the kind of comment that bugs me on this site. Its impossible to prove one way or the other, unless you know better. Knowing what I know makes this extremely suspect, so please indulge me. How many of the 100 would you say were Blue Ridge vs. White Springs? What is the breakdown in 03, 04, 10D, 63D, and 67D packs would you say? I am not familiar with any single 50 mile radius that would have had 100 of these particular spas in it or would have been junked at the same period of time (especially since the production dates didnt truely overlap...). Not to mention Gatsby Spas was in business longer then the supposed purchase to junk period. If you dont mind, where are you located roughly?

More relevent to the dicussion here and what everyone seems to want to know from the value standpoint: Were they landfilled due to structural defects? Did the owners go to a local dealer, back to mass merchant, or do without a spa after their experience? What was the chief failure in these spas that made it more cost effective to cart off from a service point of view? Most of these spas only retailed for $3000, would you say they got ample use and value for their purchases?

While the first paragraph has some personal questions that will help me to determine where you are coming from, the 2nd would be valuable information to this board with regards to the big box sold spas that get argued about daily here. I just find this entire post rather curious as Jacuzzi to this day maintains a Gatsby Spas parts and accessory division years after the last spa rolled off the factory floor. If most of these spas are as you say, what do you suppose they are selling?

You also seem to make a good deal of money off service work if youve personally seen near 100 of this one manufacturer, let alone all the others, but seem auful quick to bite the hand that feeds at the same time. Im not sure what im missing here.

[Roger]

This is the kind of comment that bugs me on this site. Its impossible to prove one way or the other, unless you know better. Knowing what I know makes this extremely suspect, so please indulge me. How many of the 100 would you say were Blue Ridge vs. White Springs? What is the breakdown in 03, 04, 10D, 63D, and 67D packs would you say? I am not familiar with any single 50 mile radius that would have had 100 of these particular spas in it or would have been junked at the same period of time (especially since the production dates didnt truely overlap...). Not to mention Gatsby Spas was in business longer then the supposed purchase to junk period. If you dont mind, where are you located roughly?

I'll try and focus on these one at a time but you may get a bit of sketchy information from me as an independent I do not keep much more than invoices and this is a second job. First off I am in Northern Minnesota and 50 miles...sheeesh I wish my area was that small, it's not unusual for me to go 100 or even more depending on the customer, with 50 being more average.

More relevent to the dicussion here and what everyone seems to want to know from the value standpoint: Were they landfilled due to structural defects? Did the owners go to a local dealer, back to mass merchant, or do without a spa after their experience? What was the chief failure in these spas that made it more cost effective to cart off from a service point of view? Most of these spas only retailed for $3000, would you say they got ample use and value for their purchases?

I will be very general here and say most failures were after a pump, heater and several jet, jet body, and electronic failures that made the second or third major repair more costly than an outdated tub was worth to repair. Throw some deteriorated plumbing repairs into the mix. Alot bought again from a mass merchant seeing the value in it, some opted for a longer lasting more reliable unit but almost all felt they got there moneys worth.

While the first paragraph has some personal questions that will help me to determine where you are coming from, the 2nd would be valuable information to this board with regards to the big box sold spas that get argued about daily here. I just find this entire post rather curious as Jacuzzi to this day maintains a Gatsby Spas parts and accessory division years after the last spa rolled off the factory floor. If most of these spas are as you say, what do you suppose they are selling?

Parts for the ones several people have opted to keep alive, including several of my customers. And those parts are interchangable to several brands. Which makes them available alot of places. I opt to buy local. I't alot esier to replace a pump (or whatever part) with an off the shelf generic than to order direct, I think you'll find alot of repair guys do this. There are some proprietary but they to can be suplemented by others pretty easiely.

You also seem to make a good deal of money off service work if youve personally seen near 100 of this one manufacturer, let alone all the others, but seem auful quick to bite the hand that feeds at the same time. Im not sure what im missing here.

I'm sorry if you are missinterpreting my posts as bashing a particular brand. I only tell it like I see it and I do far less of this kind of work on alot older high end tubs. The purpose of these posts by me is to justify the extra dollars spent by alot of folks on there higher end tubs, don't get me wrong alot of folks are suckered into paying to much which is obvious by the 10,000 dollar mark set here by some big box fans. But I have also seen a whole lot of 5 g tubs last 10-15 years, from some very reputable manufacturers. The Jacuzzi's that fell into this catagory of inexpensive tubs seemed to not fit into the good value mold of some others like Nordic or Great Lakes. Which were slightly more money at 4-5 G's but lasting almost twice as long in most cases. But let me take that 100 figure back and apoligize for being so general. Sam's club has sold several brands and they seemed to all be on the low end of the value spectrum. Poor energy effieciency comparable to an 7-8 grand D1 or HS and poorer longevity than a 4-5 grand Nordic. Kinda puts them right where they belong, a low end tub worth 3 grand if ya ask me.

Don't use my opinion if you don't want. I tell it like I see it. Haven't worked on a tub for a couple weeks and have turned down several repairs and I have a feeling I may opt out of this repair gig for a while as my other job has my time absorbed.

[Tom]

It would need to be heavily moderated.

Sorry, we just don't have the time. Please continue to moderate yourselves.

In formal debate, the purpose is to present evidence and reach an agreement on an action, either pro or con. So far, this thread has been one of the better ones for that. All too often, an internet debate is an exchange of assertions (opinions unbacked by evidence) and flaming (name-calling), but lately there has been some good research and some attention to facts.

[mark2550]

Since comparing car prices to spa prices I personally own a 1997 lexus sc400 and a 1998 blue ridge spa (recently bought used) can I say that my lexus has out lasted my wifes 2000 buick century no. Have I done more repairs on her car yes does this equal value no her car cost 12,000.00 1 year old my car listed for 50,000.00 in 1997 so you be the judge of what's worth the extra cost. Guess what they both still run and are daily driver's except for mine, needs to be put up for the winter month's. Her car repair's cost dont even close to anything I have had to do to this car it's parts our unique and most can't be found at the local parts store, so far for the past month this old spa has served me well with no repairs and everything is originally except for the 24 hour re-circulating pump replaced by the prior owner and a broken manifold I replaced and a air divertor total costs approx. $60.00 so my total investment of $850.00 including wiring and chemicals have justified a big box used spa for me pictures attached.

[D.P. Roberts]

And once again, derailed by one party or the other with nothing to do with the original topic.

I know. My thread has been jacked. :( :( :(

I think the idea was to put aside brand bias, and personal preference on the sales philosophy and compare spa to spa? Great idea, but there are to many variables. Would almost need a thread per discussion, maybe one a week where actual OWNERS chime in.

I think you're right. I should have made this specific to two different models. Kengorman got it started with the Sun Peak vs. Chelsee, and Roger added some comments about manifolds, but other than that I think that we've gone too far off topic here. Not that the posts herein have been wrong or incorrect in some way, buy they haven't been focused on the topic. I have an idea & I'm going to try it in a new thread.

[mark2550]

And once again, derailed by one party or the other with nothing to do with the original topic.

I know. My thread has been jacked. :( :( :(

I think the idea was to put aside brand bias, and personal preference on the sales philosophy and compare spa to spa? Great idea, but there are to many variables. Would almost need a thread per discussion, maybe one a week where actual OWNERS chime in.

I think you're right. I should have made this specific to two different models. Kengorman got it started with the Sun Peak vs. Chelsee, and Roger added some comments about manifolds, but other than that I think that we've gone too far off topic here. Not that the posts herein have been wrong or incorrect in some way, buy they haven't been focused on the topic. I have an idea & I'm going to try it in a new thread.

Well they say a picture is worth a thousand words heres my proof and if your every in my neighborhood you are more than welcome to relax in my no name tub. Not sure all makes and no name tubs are all the same but you will have to prove me wrong on my el-cheapo, under insulated,used tub. Since no one seems to know the r-factor from the big name spa companies I'm settling on this huynda tub for now. only time will tell it's not fancy but the burden of proof falls upon you, these jets seem extremely hard to me and especially at 9 yrs old. Heck I'll even let you drive my car and the wifes and you tell me where the value is at when they get to this age and price.

[Bond]

Is Coast Spas considered a good national brand?

[D.P. Roberts]

Is Coast Spas considered a good national brand?

I never hear much about them anymore. They used to be talked about more often - a few years ago, they even made a promotional film about an Egyptian pharaoh called "King Tub" (instead of King Tut- get it?) with Leslie Nielsen in the starring role. You think they'd have to pay big bucks to get Leslie Nielsen. On the other hand, maybe the royalties from the "Naked Gun" series aren't coming in like they used to.

[Bond]

I looked at some models and they looked good.

I was surprised as I had not heard much about it.The web site states they have 200 dealers and have been named one of Canada's 50 Best Managed Companies every year since 2000.

[tsand]

I looked at some models and they looked good.

I was surprised as I had not heard much about it.The web site states they have 200 dealers and have been named one of Canada's 50 Best Managed Companies every year since 2000.

Just logged into the Coast Spa web site and my Trend PCcillin antivirus said I got the JS_PSYME.ANT Trojan Horse virus for my troubles.

I would use caution.....

[deepchillie]

I don't think you can use the analogy of comparing Big Box tubs and high end dealer spas to that of comparing a KIA to a BMW. I'm thinking if you really want to do the "vehicle" analogy, you could use the Cadillac Escalade Chevy Avalanche comparison. The two are pretty dam much the same truck! But one costs 60K and the other 35K. Similar, yet different. I imagine the Escalade owners would argue theirs are better because they payed more; and the Avalanche owners will argue theirs are just as good and payed less.

[Roger]

I don't think you can use the analogy of comparing Big Box tubs and high end dealer spas to that of comparing a KIA to a BMW. I'm thinking if you really want to do the "vehicle" analogy, you could use the Cadillac Escalade Chevy Avalanche comparison. The two are pretty dam much the same truck! But one costs 60K and the other 35K. Similar, yet different. I imagine the Escalade owners would argue theirs are better because they payed more; and the Avalanche owners will argue theirs are just as good and payed less.

But by the time you load up the Chevy with all the options the Caddy has you will be pretty close in cost. And neither will haul a load of dirt!!

[thestallion]

I don't think you can use the analogy of comparing Big Box tubs and high end dealer spas to that of comparing a KIA to a BMW. I'm thinking if you really want to do the "vehicle" analogy, you could use the Cadillac Escalade Chevy Avalanche comparison. The two are pretty dam much the same truck! But one costs 60K and the other 35K. Similar, yet different. I imagine the Escalade owners would argue theirs are better because they payed more; and the Avalanche owners will argue theirs are just as good and payed less.

Come on Please, they are built by the same company of course they are very much alike. Are you trying to be funny or just .... ......being built by the same company and sharing many of the same part is of course absolutely nothing like a KIA or BMW being built the same or say a Hydrospa and say a Sundance

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Come on Please, they are built by the same company of course they are very much alike. Are you trying to be funny or just .... ......being built by the same company and sharing many of the same part is of course absolutely nothing like a KIA or BMW being built the same or say a Hydrospa and say a Sundance

LOL, I missed that post trying to say the premium spa vs. the big box spa is like a Cadillac vs. a Chevy. That is so far off target I gotta believe he is joking because it’s really more like a Cadillac vs. a Hyundai (though too often a lot of these “bargain” spas end up comparing more to a Yugo).

[thestallion]

Come on Please, they are built by the same company of course they are very much alike. Are you trying to be funny or just .... ......being built by the same company and sharing many of the same part is of course absolutely nothing like a KIA or BMW being built the same or say a Hydrospa and say a Sundance

LOL, I missed that post trying to say the premium spa vs. the big box spa is like a Cadillac vs. a Chevy. That is so far off target I gotta believe he is joking because it’s really more like a Cadillac vs. a Hyundai (though too often a lot of these “bargain” spas end up comparing more to a Yugo).

Yes and what he is saying by using the Cadillac and Chevy examples is way way off base as those are both GM vehicles that do in fact share the same platform and many of the same core parts as again they are made by the same company. In the Spa world it would be the same as say Tiger River and Hot Springs but in the real world a Hyrdrospa and a Sundance share little to no common parts as they are made by different company's.