What Is A "cheapy" Hot Tub?

[Trigger]

Come on. You are constantly beating everyone here over the head with your Costco mantra to the point where you're a paradoy of yourself.

What tubs in the 12K range do you feel are comperable to your tub?

you also feel Costco provides such savings on many other items. Can you show me?

[Tom]

See kids, this is why they no longer sell modeling glue over the counter.

Apparently, you haven't found that to be an obstacle, Trigger.

Boys, settle down.

Remember, the topic of the thread is to identify those characteristics which a consumer might use to distinguish "Economy" from "Luxury" hot tubs. Brought this over from the thread on cover weight:

The foam a cover's cores are made of is called Expanded Polystyrene... To prevent (actually reduce) water absorption, the foam cores are "sealed" in polyethylene. The method used to seal the polyethylene is an important factor. Many cheap covers simply have the polyethylene taped closed. Not good, as the tape will eventually fail. Better covers have the polyethylene heat sealed.

Which suggests this range of cover qualities, low to high

Vinyl:

thin

heavier

heavier still

marine grade

heavy duty marine grade

Thickness (as taper in inches, center/edges):

2/1

3/2

4/3 or 4/2

5/4 etc.

6/x

Insulation type:

air chambers

expanded polystyrene

extruded polyurethane

Frame:

no frame

aluminum or steel center frame

aluminum or steel "C" frame

Envelope:

no envelope

thin 2 mil (or less) polyethylene envelope, taped

2-4 mil poly, heat sealed

6-8 mil poly, heat sealed

heat sealed mylar envelope

I have absolutely no idea whether this is represents the range of industry standards -- you are welcome to debate that, and the order within each category. Feel free to add anything missing. I am just trying to keep the thread to facts, and to encourage opinions based on evidence.

[Trigger]

I appoligize for the glue comment. I honestly didn't mean it in hurtful way. I ment in a way to illustrate that the statement (to me) was completely off fact.

But have we reached the point were the the cosco tubs are now being challagened to $12K tubs? And statments like "such savings are typicall at costco"

I'm sorry, but I don't belive it.

My comments about an internet rebrander that is lying to poeple in which I state proveable FACTS gets moderated, but these "opinons" go by?

So NE Tub, Hoenstly, do you feel a consumer would be better off buying say ... Oh, I don'tknow lets take... an Artic tub for example.

Is Artic overpriced? Do you think a cusumer would be better buying an overpriced Artic Tub?

How do you feel Costco is better than Artic? Where is Artic really making the money? Why would a consumer be better NOT buying an Artic?

I'm not saying you are wrong...I'm just looking for specifics.

[Dr. Spa]

Vinyl:

thin

heavier

heavier still

marine grade

heavy duty marine grade

Rather poor descriptions. First off, "Marine Grade" is simply a marketing term, and covers a variety of different vinyl qualities. UV rating, pigment rating and thickness are the true importance.

Thickness (as taper in inches, center/edges):

2/1

3/2

4/3 or 4/2

5/4 etc.

6/x

This is good, though missing a few sizes I've seen available. VERY important to consider though is the TRUE thickness of the FOAM. Some companies are adding in the thickness of the vinyl and polywrap to get their "published" thickness, and others are using "nominal" measurements (actually calling 3-1/2" four inches).

Insulation type:

air chambers

expanded polystyrene

extruded polyurethane

Good one here.

Frame:

no frame

aluminum or steel center frame

aluminum or steel "C" frame

Missing a few important things here. There's a big difference, "differences" actually, between aluminum and steel. Lets start with thickness. Metal is typically measured in gauge. The smaller the gauge, the thicker the material. I've seen covers with support beams advertised from 28 gauge to 20 gauge. Big difference in strengths here. Another VERY interesting thing is that in different metals, the gauge is indicative of different thicknesses. For instance, 20 gauge steel is THICKER that 20 gauge aluminum I'd have to look it up, but my recollection is there's about a 20% difference). Also, the same thickness (not gauge, but fractional inches) steel is much stronger that aluminum.

Envelope:

no envelope

thin 2 mil (or less) polyethylene envelope, taped

2-4 mil poly, heat sealed

6-8 mil poly, heat sealed

heat sealed mylar envelope

Exactly how it's heat sealed is also of great importance. There's hand held sealers that don't very accurately seal for a perfectly preset amount of time. They also tend to be on the short side, and multiple seals are required to seal one edge of the foam. This allows for overlapping seals, which causes brittleness. The best method is a 9' long impulse sealer which can be adjusted to seal down to the tenth of a degree and a tenth of a second, automatically.

[Roger]

Covers Hot Tubs

1.250 bucks 2-3 taper, taped inner seal. Costco Tub

2.300 bucks 3-4 taper, taped inner seal. Phoenix Tub

3.350 bucks 4-5 taper, heat sealed inner seal. Dimension One Tub

Kinda how I see it. And a good quality tub at a dealer with full backing, delivery and a proven track record for longevity is 8 grand. 3 grand more than a UPPER LOW END Costco Tub

[New NW tub owner]

Covers Hot Tubs

1.250 bucks 2-3 taper, taped inner seal. Costco Tub

2.300 bucks 3-4 taper, taped inner seal. Phoenix Tub

3.350 bucks 4-5 taper, heat sealed inner seal. Dimension One Tub

Kinda how I see it. And a good quality tub at a dealer with full backing, delivery and a proven track record for longevity is 8 grand. 3 grand more than a UPPER LOW END Costco Tub

But Roger, you are misrepresenting the Costco cover. According to their website at 'platinumhottubs.com', the costco cover is a "Deluxe Cover 5" x 3" Tapered Foam Construction" which also happens to be what my tub has. My costco tub cover also has a 'heat sealed' inner seal.

On another topic in this thread, the hydro web site has a good picture that shows what the base of the costco tub looks like at 'hydrospa.com/spatour6_base.html. I was trying to describe this but a picture is worth a thousand words in this case. I doubt if any other hot tub has a better base than the hydro base at the moment.

When are you going to concede that the costco tub is not a 'low end' tub but but actually an 'upper end' tub by your own standards?

[jmendoza17]

'New NW tub owner' date='May 31 2007, 10:25 AM' post='27474'] I didn't speak as, or claim to be, an expert on hot tubs. Also, I didn't provide a glowing review. The costco tub is good, but certainly not the best. I think it's about equivalent to what the dealers are selling for 9 or $10k but costco sells them for less than $5k so that makes it a great deal if you are a do-it-yourselfer. If someone wants to go out and spend $12k at a dealer, they might get a better tub than the costco tub, depending on whose tub they get, but they will have spend quite a bit more money. I think that's true of most of the stuff that costco sells, be it furniture, appliances, computers, hot tubs, tires, or whatever.

That was the point. It is more than obvious that you're not an expert, yet you frequently --and sometimes quite hostily and childishly-- attack the positions of others while offering nothing more than your self-inflated opinion as a substitute.

Here is a hard and indisuputable fact. If you bought a Hydropsa Platinum Elite at Costco for $3,999, then you bought a $3,999 spa for $3,999. You own a $3,999 spa; nothing more and nothing less.

[Artic Cub]

All, seriously....

I have the "cheapy" spa.......mine will only stay at 76'...I've tried a solar cover and those little warming fish....Anyone know how to hook up the fire can safely or have any alternatives?

My kids really want the pool set up soon!!!!

On a "real" spa note, My jets have been replaced finally in my 7k artic tub and it's over 2 years old. I've had to turn it down to 99 in the summer so it doesn't go over 104 and in the winter, it will hold it's temperature without the cover on in 40 weather (did it once)....we've noticed no electric increase during cold months! There is a difference among quality tubs.

It's like driving a Toyota vs. driving a Saturn....you may be happy with a generic s value because you don't know any better!

[Roger]

When are you going to concede that the costco tub is not a 'low end' tub but but actually an 'upper end' tub by your own standards?

I was making an example out of the covers and nothing more, you twist things around. Like I said NW and this is how it is going to be forever, you bought a cheap inexpensive tub and you got a cheap inexpensive tub. It's value has yet to be proven and you will go on forever trying to justify your purchase and the quality of your tub as the "same as a ten thousand dollar tub" based on your experience as an owner for a couple years. Me on the other hand have yet to see the value on this particular HydroSpa unit and will hold my opinion on them as exactly what it is, an inexpensive hot tub, untill they have proven themselves to last relativly trouble free for 6 or more years. Because that's when value starts to come into play on any value tub. And yours is a value tub. Because corporate America does not give anything away, including Costco. This is based on my experience, which you may not consider of any worth to you but that's OK I do not get payed for my experience and postings on here so I do not have to convince a rookie hot tub owner to do anything, and my advice can be taken or left by anyone and it does not matter to me.

[jmendoza17]

Well said Roger.

[Trigger]

All, seriously....

I have the "cheapy" spa.......mine will only stay at 76'...I've tried a solar cover and those little warming fish....Anyone know how to hook up the fire can safely or have any alternatives?

My kids really want the pool set up soon!!!!

On a "real" spa note, My jets have been replaced finally in my 7k artic tub and it's over 2 years old. I've had to turn it down to 99 in the summer so it doesn't go over 104 and in the winter, it will hold it's temperature without the cover on in 40 weather (did it once)....we've noticed no electric increase during cold months! There is a difference among quality tubs.

It's like driving a Toyota vs. driving a Saturn....you may be happy with a generic s value because you don't know any better!

You are kidding right? Youre hot tub wont go above 76? I think your heater is broken. My above ground pool is at 82.

[Richs100]

Wheww! After exactly one month and 112 posts, I am overjoyed that we have finally been able to resolve this dispute.

I am now convinced, beyond a reasonable doubt, of the following:

1. New NW Tub Owner believes he got a $12,000 tub for $3,999.99 (plus credit card miles).

2. Trigger believes New NW Tub Owner got a $3,999.99 tub (plus credit card miles).

3. A good part of a month and 110 posts may have been wasted. (no credit card miles)

4. Paintnsunni is planted somewhere in the desert outside Las Vegas and no one has filed a missing person report.

Next topic:

Is Costco's $10.00 tub of peanut butter brittle just as good as Whitman's $20.00 box?

[Trigger]

Wheww! After exactly one month and 112 posts, I am overjoyed that we have finally been able to resolve this dispute.

I am now convinced, beyond a reasonable doubt, of the following:

1. New NW Tub Owner believes he got a $12,000 tub for $3,999.99 (plus credit card miles).

2. Trigger believes Soakerman got a $3,999.99 tub (plus credit card miles).

3. A good part of a month and 110 posts may have been wasted. (no credit card miles)

4. Paintnsunni is planted somewhere in the desert outside Las Vegas and no one has filed a missing person report.

Next topic:

Is Costco's $10.00 tub of peanut butter brittle just as good as Whitman's $20.00 box?

I wold also like to know where I can buy some glue.

/sorry. Sometimes I think I make these posts just to annoy Tom and Chas.

[Richs100]

Trigger:

I was just joshing y'all.

The on-going Costco Wars keep us all entertained and are a part of what makes this board so "special".

(in a short-bus kinda way)

Also, I am thinking of ordering some tee-shirts with a pic of Paintnsunni below "Have you seen this Guy?", but we got no pics.

We could use this:

Waddaya think?

[Roger]

[/i]

I wold also like to know where I can buy some glue.

/sorry. Sometimes I think I make these posts just to annoy Tom and Chas.[/i]

I have a horse for sale!

[Roger]

Also, I am thinking of ordering some tee-shirts with a pic of Paintnsunni below "Have you seen this Guy?", but we got no pics.

We could use this:

Last I heard he fell under attack from some sand pounding rag headed Shiites

[Richs100]

Trigger Says:

I wold also like to know where I can buy some glue.

Come on! Everyone knows the answer to that question: COSTCO!!!

[Richs100]

Roger:

I understand the attack was by his cousin, Paintnshite, who sells Hydrobadspas at the Costco in Mosul.

[Tom]

Wheww! After exactly one month and 112 posts,... I am now convinced, beyond a reasonable doubt, of the following:

<snip>

3. A good part of a month and 110 posts may have been wasted. (no credit card miles)

I don't know about wasted. Lots of food for thought. I'll have to go track one of those Costco thingies down and have a look.

Rona, a Canadian box store, has a hot tub for $6K CAD, didn't look bad in the ad photo. I wonder how Rona would take to my removing panels, taking photos, popping out jets, unzipping the cover skin, etc.

[Roger]

Rona, a Canadian box store, has a hot tub for $6K CAD, didn't look bad in the ad photo. I wonder how Rona would take to my removing panels, taking photos, popping out jets, unzipping the cover skin, etc.

Probably just another Hydro with a different name. But I dare ya. Or one of the several manufacturers that pump out loads of spas for loads of names.

[Richs100]

Tom:

I say you should fill the tub with their bottled water, balance the chemicals and jump in.

Remember, wet testing is the only way to know for sure!

As far as removing jets, if the Rona tub is like the one I saw at Costco, you can just reach into the bottom of the tub and pick one of them up.

[jmendoza17]

'New NW tub owner' date='May 31 2007, 01:37 PM' post='27495'] I doubt if any other hot tub has a better base than the hydro base at the moment.

So if by your own admission you are not an expert, what gives you the credentials to make such pronouncements. How many tubs have you examined and what methodology did you employ as a basis of comparison? I'll bet the answer to the above is that --as usual-- you are confusing your opinions for facts.

I'll remind everyone that it was you who began this thread by questioning the credentials of some of the "regulars'' on this forum and asserting that some had called your $3999 tub a "cheapy". Fact is that I can't recall any of your opinions being very accurate. What many have tried to tell you is that the PEII is an economy unit and that people get what they pay for. You paid $3999 and you own a $3999 tub.

[jmendoza17]

Richs100' date='Jun 1 2007, 07:57 AM' post='27560']Also, I am thinking of ordering some tee-shirts with a pic of Paintnsunni below "Have you seen this Guy?", but we got no pics. We could use this: :ph34r:Waddaya think?

Put me down for a dozen. Maybe you can distribute them through Costco.

[Jim_The_Jim]

I think everybody needs to open their eyes, ears, mind and stop listening to sales hype, and take time to decide on any hot tub. A hot tub is not something that you are going to be able to get rid of real fast after you realize you made a mistake.

If you go shopping, make them show you the insides of the spa, and if it is full foam, you can't even see the plumbing parts. Look at the equipment, jets, seating. If you do you will agree that the Costco is better than some of the spas selling for high prices. In my opinion they are better than any of the Jacuzzi products or Watkins. Go look, be an informed consumer.

http://www.soundclick.com/havenhead

[Trigger]

I think everybody needs to open their eyes, ears, mind and stop listening to sales hype, and take time to decide on any hot tub. A hot tub is not something that you are going to be able to get rid of real fast after you realize you made a mistake.

If you go shopping, make them show you the insides of the spa, and if it is full foam, you can't even see the parts. Look at the equipment, jets, seating. If you do you will agree that the Costco is better than some of the spas selling for high prices. In my opinion they are better than any of the Jacuzzi products or Watkins. Go look, be an informed consumer.

Jim, you're really loosing credibility by making such statements. Can't even see the parts in a Full Foam tub? That's flat out wrong.

Be an informed consumer: Don't buy a hot tub off the internet from a broke rebrander of 2nd rate tubs that can't even warranty thier cut rate product.