What Is A "cheapy" Hot Tub?

[Tom]

The components, construction methods, pumps, shell, features, etc look very similar [between low and high-end products]. So come on, all you hot tub experts. What exactly are the differences in design, quality, features, between my PE2 tub and the much more expensive tubs in dealers?

I'm surprised that no one has actually come up with a detailed list. For the sake of discussion, here are some specific examples arranged as best I can manage in increasing order of cost and quality. Others are welcome to debate the order of the list if I'm wrong, or to add items I've missed. Perhaps we can come up with some sort of agreement that, "yes, these are good option for economy" and "yes, these are more apt to be part of a luxury spa." All you folks who've shopped for spas, all you folks who repair spas, all you folks who sell 'em, what separates economy from luxury product?

A couple of requests to keep the discussion civil:

1. An economy or entry-level product may give reasonable or even good value for the money (as Roger points out, longevity is one aspect of value and we really won't know for a couple years). So let's not call them "cheap" spas.

2. Let's try not to get too bogged down in brand-oriented responses ("galvalume is stronger than 2x4" - "no it ain't!")

3. Let's for heaven's sake, leave insu*****n out of it! Also, let's disregard appearance ("bling") and available options, at least for now.

1. Shutoff valves (prices taken from online hot tub supply places)

Gate valve, 1.5", two-piece body, $18 to $25

Gate valve, 2", one-piece body, $25 to $45

Ball valve, 2.5", one-piece body, $30 to $90

Probably several steps in between these, too.

2. Frame construction

1 x 3

2 x 2

2 x 4

Galvanized steel or alloys

Special (eg. free-standing shell)

3. Cabinet construction (I'm not at all sure of the order here)

Plastic, 1/4" thick or less

Plastic, 3/8" thick

Low-grade wood (knotty pine? others?)

Plastic, 1/2" thick

Knotty cedar

Clear redwood

Clear cedar

4. Floor/base construction

No floor

6 mil poly stapled to bottom of frame

1/8" coroplast stapled to bottom

ABS sheet

Shaped ABS pedestal

Pressure-treated plywood floor

Pressure-treated plywood or 2x4 pedestal

SMC fiberglass pedestal

5. Shell Thickness (for acrylic/fiberglass only)

1/8" thick, supported under seats & foot well

1/4" thick, ditto

3/8" thick, no support needed under seats

Not sure where the other shell construction methods fit

6. Fit and Finish (feel free to adjust these)

cabinet has noticeable wows, joints have gaps

finish is variable, uneven

noticeable gap between shell and cabinet

noticeable gaps between cabinet and floor or pedestal

fit and finish look good (have to look close)

fit and finish look excellent

7. Number and type of jets

(Probably I'm way off the mark here--and if I am, I expect to be told so!--but it seems to me that the higher up the chain you go, generally the greater the number and especially the greater the variety of jets you get.)

a few 'bullet' jets

lots of 'bullet jets'

a small variety of jet types and sizes

zillions of bullet jets

a good variety of types and sizes

a big variety of types and sizes

specialty jets (motorized, packs, multiport)

There, a bunch of items you might use to distinguish economy from luxury spas. I am now going to duck and run, to avoid the slings and arrows of outraged forum members.

Have a good weekend.

[soakerman]

What does Arctic have to offer in the 4k price range that we can compare it to the Costco spa.

[JohnInSJ]

Good list - what about

number and size (and speed(s) - 1 or 2) of pumps

number and size of filter(s)

diverter(s)

I bring those up because I noticed pump number drop, and size and even lack of 2 speeds drop as I moved from midline to entry-level spas, while the filter size, and sometimes 2 fiters vs 1 also crops up as you move down in cost.

Basically, the higher end spas allowed for directing all the pump energy to half or less of the tub via diverters, multiple pumps/speeds, or both.

[Tom]

What does Arctic have to offer in the 4k price range that we can compare it to the Costco spa.

Check the Coyote Spas site.

This will be comparing a Costco spa to another entry-level line, with similar price points, rather than the top-end Arctic line. It should be an interesting exercise since the Arctic and Coyote share some similarities in construction and design (Perimeter Heatlock, Total Access, sealed floor for example). The 2007 Coyote has some interesting innovations that may make a direct comparison challenging, but I look forward to your analysis.

As Roger keeps reminding us, there is more to Value than just Price.

[soakerman]

there is more to value then just price and I have not seen anyone yet show a desparity between the Costco spa and a "high end' spa.

2. Frame construction Costco is near the top

1. Shutoff valves (prices taken from online hot tub supply places) Costco near the top

3. Cabinet construction (I'm not at all sure of the order here) Costco has the best

4. Floor/base construction Costco is tops here

5. Shell Thickness (for acrylic/fiberglass only) Costco rules this one

7. Number and type of jets Costco again does well

6. Fit and Finish (feel free to adjust these)Costco again reingns supreme

Let's not forget the three speed four pump system and also a two filter 100 sqf. system versus a 50 sqf. filter. Lets not forget the ozonator and a huge one is the included stereo with topside remote and subwoofer.

Small things that beat alot of the big boys are a included coverlifter, Microban in the shell,24 hour circ pump, stainless steel trimed jets, multicolored lights, a 5 inch tapered cover vs. the " standard " 3 inch from the competitors and also a very thick guage tounge and groove synthetic cabinet. all for under 4k! Thats the kicker. No one can come close value for money spent on that spa feature for feature and quality of components period!

Let the trash talk begin!

[hottublady]

Wow its really sad that some people have such a pathetic life, all they do is sit on this website for fun and argue with people. I come on here for research.

[Tom]

Let the trash talk begin!

LOL. I'd rather see some facts, thanks. BTW, did you check the thread about hype?

[Roger]

LOL. I'd rather see some facts, thanks. BTW, did you check the thread about hype?

Soakermans expert opinion is fact enough for me, after all he has been in the Hot Tub business for, what is it 20-30 years?

[soakerman]

mine hasn't fallen apart nor do I anticipate it to. It does have a self supporting shell without a wood substructure for support. It has the best controller on the market by Balboa controlls and in my "reasearch" I learned alot of spa controllers won't run a three pump system let alone ozone or circ pump. the shell itself isn't in need or reinforcement under the seats or the floor as it is a very thick hand rolled fiberglass shell. The motors are 56 frame not 48 frame and ment for more of a demanding load to last longer. The skirting is very thick and backed by a lifetime guarantee against splits warp and ect. not the cheapy 3/8th panels found on some spas. this isn't hype but rather actuall fact and they also sell more of these models then any other single spa model anywhere due to the value and quality that is offered through Costco that the dealers don't offer at any price point. I know Costco marks their spa up 15 percent and can only imagine what a dealer marks his spa up. plus the fact that Costco in one year can sell 20,000 units thus offering a huge buying advantage no dealer can leverage due to smaller volume of sales. I had three dealers in my area say they didn't have any model that offered the same features as the Elite spa and the closest they had would be in the 6k to 8k range and still not offer what the Elite spa had in features. I did alot of reasearch when I made my purchase and know what a spa cost for what the comparison to a Elite spa from Costco cost and with the return policy to ease any reluctance I had in purchasing a spa with no restock fee of any kind.

[Roger]

mine hasn't fallen apart nor do I anticipate it to. It does have a self supporting shell without a wood substructure for support. It has the best controller on the market by Balboa controlls and in my "reasearch" I learned alot of spa controllers won't run a three pump system let alone ozone or circ pump. the shell itself isn't in need or reinforcement under the seats or the floor as it is a very thick hand rolled fiberglass shell. The motors are 56 frame not 48 frame and ment for more of a demanding load to last longer. The skirting is very thick and backed by a lifetime guarantee against splits warp and ect. not the cheapy 3/8th panels found on some spas. this isn't hype but rather actuall fact and they also sell more of these models then any other single spa model anywhere due to the value and quality that is offered through Costco that the dealers don't offer at any price point. I know Costco marks their spa up 15 percent and can only imagine what a dealer marks his spa up. plus the fact that Costco in one year can sell 20,000 units thus offering a huge buying advantage no dealer can leverage due to smaller volume of sales. I had three dealers in my area say they didn't have any model that offered the same features as the Elite spa and the closest they had would be in the 6k to 8k range and still not offer what the Elite spa had in features. I did alot of reasearch when I made my purchase and know what a spa cost for what the comparison to a Elite spa from Costco cost and with the return policy to ease any reluctance I had in purchasing a spa with no restock fee of any kind.

If it lasts for 10 years you'll have found a good value. Even 6-8 would make it a good value. Just 4-6 more years to go.

[soakerman]

actually it only has to make four years as a ten year old spa is worthless even if it cost ten grand plus new so this one being only 4 grand needs four years to equal the value of a ten year old ten thousand dolar spa. useing your logic then a Arctic spa better last at least 10 years trouble free as they tend to cost about ten thousand for a good one. your theory then would assume a thousand dollars on the price would call for one year of service to equal value. The Costco spa does that in less then half the time of the "high end spa"

Also why wouldnt it make it just as long sice it uses the same components as the big boy mass market spas such as Clearwatter spa, Cal spa and more...you tell me why it wont make it just fine. Other then your poinion you have nothing to base that statement of going ten years.

[Roger]

actually it only has to make four years as a ten year old spa is worthless even if it cost ten grand plus new so this one being only 4 grand needs four years to equal the value of a ten year old ten thousand dolar spa. useing your logic then a Arctic spa better last at least 10 years trouble free as they tend to cost about ten thousand for a good one. your theory then would assume a thousand dollars on the price would call for one year of service to equal value. The Costco spa does that in less then half the time of the "high end spa"

Also why wouldnt it make it just as long sice it uses the same components as the big boy mass market spas such as Clearwatter spa, Cal spa and more...you tell me why it wont make it just fine. Other then your poinion you have nothing to base that statement of going ten years.

No see 20 years it what a high end tub will last. That's why I call a good value tub a 10 year tub. Your putting words in my mouth. This thread is about value tubs. You get a good value tub at 10 years. High end tubs go for 15-20+ years. Big boys, mass market Clearwater, Calspa....LOL How about mid line spas.....LOL. Seen plenty of 6 year old Hydrospas. Going to work on one tomorrow, I think it's only 4 years old though. Looks like one of the pumps is junk. And yes this is my opinion, just like the above and all your statements are your opinion. I base mine on my experience and you base yours on yours, which is what? I'm still trying to get a handle on your credentials. Mine are posted freely. 25 year plumber, independent repair guy that has serviced thousands of tubs made by almost all the manufacturers. And swimming pools, decks, fences, gazebos, we fix everything except a brokin heart. And that aint hype.

[flibotte]

"2. Frame construction Costco is near the top

1. Shutoff valves (prices taken from online hot tub supply places) Costco near the top

3. Cabinet construction (I'm not at all sure of the order here) Costco has the best

4. Floor/base construction Costco is tops here

5. Shell Thickness (for acrylic/fiberglass only) Costco rules this one

7. Number and type of jets Costco again does well

6. Fit and Finish (feel free to adjust these)Costco again reingns supreme"

LOL, Good stuff! Looks like the Hydro marketing dept didn't have Memorial Day off.

[Trigger]

Soakerman,

how old are you?

[jmendoza17]

'soakerman' date='May 28 2007, 05:44 PM' post='27238']I know Costco marks their spa up 15 percent ... plus the fact that Costco in one year can sell 20,000 units thus offering a huge buying advantage no dealer can leverage due to smaller volume of sales.

How could you possibly know all that stuff. Are you Paintnsunni or the NW nitwit in disguise?

[Roger]

'soakerman' date='May 28 2007, 05:44 PM' post='27238']I know Costco marks their spa up 15 percent ... plus the fact that Costco in one year can sell 20,000 units thus offering a huge buying advantage no dealer can leverage due to smaller volume of sales.

Somebody send a letter to Costco and verify this for me please.

There should be close to 60,000 of these units out there by now according to this logic. Which would mean you'd think I would have seen one by now that was from Costco, and will put Hydrospa ahead of Watkins Manufacuring the number one selling brand, in........just a few more years, took Watkins close to 20-30 years to sell a couple hundred thousand units. We better get on this band wagon for the ride. Or..........maybe they just don't last that long and are mostly alot of trouble so they don't sell alot, beats me????

[New NW tub owner]

I finally got around to opening my Costco PE2 tub's pump compartment. Here's my look at my tub using Tom's list (which I am unfortunately unable to quote):

1. Shutoff valves (prices taken from online hot tub supply places)

My tub has 2 inch valves.

2. Frame construction.

The sides that the skirting attaches to are pressure-treated 1x4s. They don't have any structural function with the way that the shell is supported so I personally wouldn't use anything more if I were building it myself. The shell is supported independently of the frame and skirting on a pedestal under the footwell that is molded into the base.

3. Cabinet construction

The side panels are some sort of synthetic material and are 3/8 thick with backing plastic sheet behind that. The panels are very rigid and still look like new.

4. Floor/base construction

The shell is supported on a plastic covered pedestal. The bottom is a molded plastic thing that is some sort of plastic material that is hard enough to a casual fingernail scratch that it might actually be ABS plastic. I wouldn't have thought of ABS as something to use on hot tubs but maybe it has some advantages in forming or something. Above the ABS molded bottom inside is a pressure-treated 3/4-inch plywood deck that equipment is sitting on. There is some sort of foam between the plywood and the molded bottom.

5. Shell Thickness (for acrylic/fiberglass only)

The shell is 3/8 thick. There are additional molded pedestals under the seating for support which seems like a good idea to me from a structural point of view regardless of the shell thickness, given the configuration of the tub (or any tub) with a deep footwell and shallow seating areas.

6. Fit and Finish (feel free to adjust these)

I would say the fit and finish look good. There are no gaps anywhere in the construction and it is all straight, square, and solid. There is a gap between the shell and the skirting but it seems to be intentionally designed by the manufacturer for some reason since it would have obviously been easy to have left it out..

7. Number and type of jets

The costco tub has a lot of jets of several diffferent types. There are some really big ones, some multiport ones, some little ones that rotate, etc. I don't know what a bullet jet is but there are probably some of those. The jets all have a shiny ring on the front, look nice, and seem to work well. I couldn't see anything to tell me who makes the jets or what models they are from the front of them.

Other: The jet pumps and blower are not easily viewable unless you take additional panels off so I didn't look at those. The circulation pump has an Emerson motor, 1/15 hp, rated for continuous duty, and thermally protected so it looks fine to me and I have seen a few electric motors.

Looks like the Costco tub might qualify as 'middle -to-high end' rather than 'low-end' based on construction and features.

[Roger]

I finally got around to opening my Costco PE2 tub's pump compartment. Here's my look at my tub using Tom's list (which I am unfortunately unable to quote):

1. Shutoff valves (prices taken from online hot tub supply places)

My tub has 2 inch valves.

Most tubs use 2 inch valves and there are several different qualitys of these.

2. Frame construction.

The sides that the skirting attaches to are pressure-treated 1x4s. They don't have any structural function with the way that the shell is supported so I personally wouldn't use anything more if I were building it myself. The shell is supported independently of the frame and skirting on a pedestal under the footwell that is molded into the base.

Most high end tubs use 2x4 treated uprights and they do just a bit more than hold on the side panels, if you sit on the edge of the tub they support people, could be alot of people. In a few years look down the upper lip of the tub and see how straight it is. Fiberglass flexes alot.

3. Cabinet construction

The side panels are some sort of synthetic material and are 3/8 thick with backing plastic sheet behind that. The panels are very rigid and still look like new.

Good, but there are several factors that lead to fading and warping and in the year or two you have owned your tub your good so far but 3-4 years down the road we will see.

4. Floor/base construction

The shell is supported on a plastic covered pedestal. The bottom is a molded plastic thing that is some sort of plastic material that is hard enough to a casual fingernail scratch that it might actually be ABS plastic. I wouldn't have thought of ABS as something to use on hot tubs but maybe it has some advantages in forming or something. Above the ABS molded bottom inside is a pressure-treated 3/4-inch plywood deck that equipment is sitting on. There is some sort of foam between the plywood and the molded bottom.

I'm kinda wondering why I hear no talk of insulation covering anyof this stuff??

5. Shell Thickness (for acrylic/fiberglass only)

The shell is 3/8 thick. There are additional molded pedestals under the seating for support which seems like a good idea to me from a structural point of view regardless of the shell thickness, given the configuration of the tub (or any tub) with a deep footwell and shallow seating areas.

1/2" is a good thickness for this. Your getting 1/2 in one place could be down to 3/8 in another. Start at 3/8 be down to 1/4 in another. An Arctic does not need anything under the seats to support the shell, self supporting. My value Great Lakes is also 1/2 nominal thickness on the shell so it to has no support under the seats. Because the shell is a bit thinner on the PE it needs the support.

6. Fit and Finish (feel free to adjust these)

I would say the fit and finish look good. There are no gaps anywhere in the construction and it is all straight, square, and solid. There is a gap between the shell and the skirting but it seems to be intentionally designed by the manufacturer for some reason since it would have obviously been easy to have left it out..

Heat rises and slipps right out that gap. Look under the lip of a D1

7. Number and type of jets

The costco tub has a lot of jets of several diffferent types. There are some really big ones, some multiport ones, some little ones that rotate, etc. I don't know what a bullet jet is but there are probably some of those. The jets all have a shiny ring on the front, look nice, and seem to work well. I couldn't see anything to tell me who makes the jets or what models they are from the front of them.

Other: The jet pumps and blower are not easily viewable unless you take additional panels off so I didn't look at those. The circulation pump has an Emerson motor, 1/15 hp, rated for continuous duty, and thermally protected so it looks fine to me and I have seen a few electric motors.

As long as you are happy with your jets that is what is important, but keep in mind that all jets feel different and you may be suprised at how much better the jets feel on that high end tub you seem to be dissin.

Looks like the Costco tub might qualify as 'middle -to-high end' rather than 'low-end' based on construction and features.

My opinion is different than yours. I would say the Costco tub rates right where it belongs in the low end 4-5 grand place. You get what you pay for!!

[New NW tub owner]

2. Frame construction.

New NW: The sides that the skirting attaches to are pressure-treated 1x4s. They don't have any structural function with the way that the shell is supported so I personally wouldn't use anything more if I were building it myself. The shell is supported independently of the frame and skirting on a pedestal under the footwell that is molded into the base. </i>

Roger: Most high end tubs use 2x4 treated uprights and they do just a bit more than hold on the side panels, if you sit on the edge of the tub they support people, could be alot of people. In a few years look down the upper lip of the tub and see how straight it is. Fiberglass flexes alot.

In my tub, the configuration is very rigid because of the pedestal supports and the cross-connected reinforcement on above. It's difficult to describe but the shell is built more like a boat than a water tank. The skirt attachments have absolutely no structural function, even when people are sitting on the side of the tub. If you saw one of the tubs, you would see what I'm talking about.

New NW: The shell is supported on a plastic covered pedestal. The bottom is a molded plastic thing that is some sort of plastic material that is hard enough to a casual fingernail scratch that it might actually be ABS plastic. I wouldn't have thought of ABS as something to use on hot tubs but maybe it has some advantages in forming or something. Above the ABS molded bottom inside is a pressure-treated 3/4-inch plywood deck that equipment is sitting on. There is some sort of foam between the plywood and the molded bottom.

Roger: I'm kinda wondering why I hear no talk of insulation covering anyof this stuff??

Because in his original post, Tom requested no talk about insulation. I don't see what insulation would have to do with the pedestal supports anyway. They are built out of plastic, wood, and /or fiberglass so there is little thermal conductivity between the shell and the ground and there would not be a significant heat loss.

5. Shell Thickness (for acrylic/fiberglass only)

New NW: The shell is 3/8 thick. There are additional molded pedestals under the seating for support which seems like a good idea to me from a structural point of view regardless of the shell thickness, given the configuration of the tub (or any tub) with a deep footwell and shallow seating areas.

Roger: 1/2" is a good thickness for this. Your getting 1/2 in one place could be down to 3/8 in another. Start at 3/8 be down to 1/4 in another. An Arctic does not need anything under the seats to support the shell, self supporting. My value Great Lakes is also 1/2 nominal thickness on the shell so it to has no support under the seats. Because the shell is a bit thinner on the PE it needs the support.[

When I was looking at tubs at dealers, I didn't see any that were 1/2" thickness on the shell. Even if the shell were 5/8" thickness, though, I think there should be pedesta support under the seats (best) or else the shell should be supported by the skirt (not as good). Otherwise, the shell would continuously be in tension rather than compression which would increase the liklihood of cracking. Fiberglass has a lot of tensile strength but it can still crack when in tension.

Roger: As long as you are happy with your jets that is what is important, but keep in mind that all jets feel different and you may be suprised at how much better the jets feel on that high end tub you seem to be dissin.[

I've been in a few hot tubs in my day and the Costco jets are as good or better than anything I've felt for performance. Now, you have been right when you said that the Costco jets are not the expensive ones and that expensive jets would ast longer...I don't know about that, they all look the same to me...but I do know how the jets FEEL and they are absolutely first rate in that department.

New NW: Looks like the Costco tub might qualify as 'middle -to-high end' rather than 'low-end' based on construction and features.[/i]

Roger: My opinion is different than yours. I would say the Costco tub rates right where it belongs in the low end 4-5 grand place. You get what you pay for!!

I think I got quite a bit more than I paid for. I think the Costco tub would be in the 9K range based on my visits to dealers and I only paid $4k. The cheapest tubs at the dealers were in the $5k range and they are were vastly inferior in features and quality compared with what Costco was selling. I think the dealers need to have a $5k tub to compete with Costco and they count on consumers not noticing that their name-brand $5k tub is a very stripped down model with cheap components, inexpensive construction, and limited features. Then they sell their dealer support and sign up the customers.

[Tom]

New NW: Looks like the Costco tub might qualify as 'middle -to-high end' rather than 'low-end' based on construction and features.

Roger: My opinion is different than yours. I would say the Costco tub rates right where it belongs in the low end 4-5 grand place. You get what you pay for!!

Interesting thread, with some credible and persuasive arguments on both sides.

[jmendoza17]

['New NW tub owner' date='May 30 2007, 07:27 AM' post='27365'

2. Frame construction.

The sides that the skirting attaches to are pressure-treated 1x4s. They don't have any structural function with the way that the shell is supported so I personally wouldn't use anything more if I were building it myself.

3. Cabinet construction

The side panels are some sort of synthetic material and are 3/8 thick with backing plastic sheet behind that. The panels are very rigid and still look like new.

4. Floor/base construction

The shell is supported on a plastic covered pedestal. The bottom is a molded plastic thing that is some sort of plastic material that is hard enough to a casual fingernail scratch that it might actually be ABS plastic. I wouldn't have thought of ABS as something to use on hot tubs but maybe it has some advantages in forming or something. Above the ABS molded bottom inside is a pressure-treated 3/4-inch plywood deck that equipment is sitting on. There is some sort of foam between the plywood and the molded bottom.

5. Shell Thickness (for acrylic/fiberglass only)

The shell is 3/8 thick. There are additional molded pedestals under the seating for support which seems like a good idea to me from a structural point of view regardless of the shell thickness, given the configuration of the tub (or any tub) with a deep footwell and shallow seating areas.

6. Fit and Finish (feel free to adjust these)

I would say the fit and finish look good. There are no gaps anywhere in the construction and it is all straight, square, and solid. There is a gap between the shell and the skirting but it seems to be intentionally designed by the manufacturer for some reason since it would have obviously been easy to have left it out..

7. Number and type of jets

The costco tub has a lot of jets of several diffferent types. There are some really big ones, some multiport ones, some little ones that rotate, etc. I don't know what a bullet jet is but there are probably some of those. The jets all have a shiny ring on the front, look nice, and seem to work well. I couldn't see anything to tell me who makes the jets or what models they are from the front of them.

Other: The jet pumps and blower are not easily viewable unless you take additional panels off so I didn't look at those. The circulation pump has an Emerson motor, 1/15 hp, rated for continuous duty, and thermally protected so it looks fine to me and I have seen a few electric motors.

Looks like the Costco tub might qualify as 'middle -to-high end' rather than 'low-end' based on construction and features.

There we have it. Concise. impeccable EXPERT testimony. A glowing review of the superior product and all the FACTS one can ask for. Case closed let's all go buy one. Hurry, before they sell out.

[jmendoza17]

.

[New NW tub owner]

There we have it. Concise. impeccable EXPERT testimony. A glowing review of the superior product and all the FACTS one can ask for. Case closed let's all go buy one. Hurry, before they sell out.

I didn't speak as, or claim to be, an expert on hot tubs. Also, I didn't provide a glowing review. The costco tub is good, but certainly not the best. I think it's about equivalent to what the dealers are selling for 9 or $10k but costco sells them for less than $5k so that makes it a great deal if you are a do-it-yourselfer. If someone wants to go out and spend $12k at a dealer, they might get a better tub than the costco tub, depending on whose tub they get, but they will have spend quite a bit more money. I think that's true of most of the stuff that costco sells, be it furniture, appliances, computers, hot tubs, tires, or whatever.

[Trigger]

If someone wants to go out and spend $12k at a dealer, they might get a better tub than the costco tub

See kids, this is why they no longer sell modeling glue over the counter.

New NW,

you've gone from defending the costco tub as being a decent tub for the money, to being equlivent to a $9-10K tub, and that one could spend $12,000.00 and maybe get something better .

Adddtionaly you claim that you think most of the stuff costco sells you will save quite a bit of money, (From your post and prices on hot tubs, anywher from 50-70%) .

Sorry.

Coscto has a rep for having great prices and good return policies but you're understanding of savings and prices is out the window.

I just did a quick comparrison and in some case the costco prices were decent and saved anwhere from 10-20%, thee were many cases where costco whas 5-10 more expsensive.

What other products do you find at Costco where you realized such savings?

[New NW tub owner]

See kids, this is why they no longer sell modeling glue over the counter.

Apparently, you haven't found that to be an obstacle, Trigger.