What Is A "cheapy" Hot Tub?

[Roger]

And the thread continues and stays at the top..........

That's what I like about this place, always good for a laugh, plus the insight into the mindset of those in the industry is always enlightening.

NightRyder

I am a plumber by trade, I have seen the inside of hundreds of tubs including Hydro. The best way for me to explain the difference between the thousands of jets, pumps, motors and pacs Hydro buys and the thousands of jets, pumps, motors and pacs Marquis buys is to order up a Waterway or Balboa or Qecko or Sta-Rite catalog for those who don't care to value my opinion and let you look at them. They sell jets for 10 bucks a piece and they sell jets for 40 bucks a piece. Which do you think Hydro buys and which do you think Marquis buys? And I really could care less if anyone here values my real experience, heck you have your own, use it. I never waste an opinion of someone more knowledgable than I. We can never stop learning unless we choose to.

I have never said the Costco Hydospa unit was garbage, just not the same as a 8-10 thousand dollar tub as has been said and is being implied. There's not one owner here of those units that can value them yet. Longevity takes time (look at the word) IMO someone like me or several others on this forum can value them better as we have seen 5-6 year old Hydrospa tubs. Use this information or don't, there's no skin of my back!

[NightRyder]

I am a plumber by trade, I have seen the inside of hundreds of tubs including Hydro. The best way for me to explain the difference between the thousands of jets, pumps, motors and pacs Hydro buys and the thousands of jets, pumps, motors and pacs Marquis buys is to order up a Waterway or Balboa or Qecko or Sta-Rite catalog for those who don't care to value my opinion and let you look at them. They sell jets for 10 bucks a piece and they sell jets for 40 bucks a piece. Which do you think Hydro buys and which do you think Marquis buys? And I really could care less if anyone here values my real experience, heck you have your own, use it. I never waste an opinion of someone more knowledgable than I. We can never stop learning unless we choose to.

I have never said the Costco Hydospa unit was garbage, just not the same as a 8-10 thousand dollar tub as has been said and is being implied. There's not one owner here of those units that can value them yet. Longevity takes time (look at the word) IMO someone like me or several others on this forum can value them better as we have seen 5-6 year old Hydrospa tubs. Use this information or don't, there's no skin of my back!

Touchy...Touchy. Your addressing your comments to the wrong person. I'm not the poster who requested your comments/opinion nor were any of mine aimed at you. Chill

NightRyder

[Roger]

Touchy...Touchy. Your addressing your comments to the wrong person. I'm not the poster who requested your comments/opinion nor were any of mine aimed at you. Chill

NightRyder

I just hit reply on the last post........not meant for anyone in particular. Someone was looking for my response and they got it. Sorry NR

[soakerman]

I think its funny as Costco has had these tubs three years now and no pandemic of returns at all. exactly the oposite. If it where junk, Costco's product buyers would have dropped them like a HOT rock years ago. This company wont stand for disgruntled members thus the succese they now enjoy as a great place to shop. Now this poor guy with Arctic and the failing jets issue I bet would love the chance to return it even at a smal cost. Costco cant afford to seel a cheap spa and loose its members.

[Pathfinder]

here's an analogy for you 3 brands KIA Nissan Infinity

Soakerman are you going to tell me because a Kia is made in Japan and its a car but cheaper its as good as a Nissan or Infinity?? I dont think so will it last as long??? I dont think so

An Infinity is the high end Nissan is the midprice to starter and the Kia is your costco tub

Even an entry level Sentra is better built and will last longer than the Kia.

Why??? Better components better company and corners are not cut just options left out to have a lower price unlike Kia.

[soakerman]

here's an analogy for you 3 brands KIA Nissan Infinity

Soakerman are you going to tell me because a Kia is made in Japan and its a car but cheaper its as good as a Nissan or Infinity?? I dont think so will it last as long??? I dont think so

An Infinity is the high end Nissan is the midprice to starter and the Kia is your costco tub

Even an entry level Sentra is better built and will last longer than the Kia.

Why??? Better components better company and corners are not cut just options left out to have a lower price unlike Kia.

To use your analogy that fits great!!!! Kia surpased nisasan last year and now is surpassing honda and toyota and btw,,,, Kia is Korean....

[Pathfinder]

To use your analogy that fits great!!!! Kia surpased nisasan last year and now is surpassing honda and toyota and btw,,,, Kia is Korean....

Korea my mistake but you miss the point completely So in your opinion cheaper is better.

Tell me what a resale value of a 5 yr old Kia is compared to a similarly priced Nissan.

Which vehicle would you want to own given the choice.

You must love that all your manufacturing jobs in the US going to China India & Mexico so you can buy cheap.

[soakerman]

Korea my mistake but you miss the point completely So in your opinion cheaper is better.

Tell me what a resale value of a 5 yr old Kia is compared to a similarly priced Nissan.

Which vehicle would you want to own given the choice.

You must love that all your manufacturing jobs in the US going to China India & Mexico so you can buy cheap.

Back to the point, you said quality, well kia beat them hands down and btw........ no new car is a investment in any way so resale is a unimportant issue as they all depreciate with Infiniti being the highest as its a luxury brand. and I cant help it if dodge chevy and ford can't compete.

[jmendoza17]

Everyone agrees that the Hydrospa tub costs less than many name brands. But, it also costs more than the brands sold at Sams and Walmart.

The problem with your argument about Kia and Infinity is that Hydrospa is not the lowest priced brand. Its price point, now $6,000, is very close to the entry levels of premium brands. Hydrospa's Costco unit is more like the Nissan Altima or an old Ford taurus, not the Kia in price. So all of you who argue about great value, have overlooked that the economy tubs are actually selling for half the price of Hydrospa's.

The question should really be, is the Hydrospa tub worth $6,000 when you can get a similar unit for $3,000, or buy a marquis name starting in the $7,500 range.

[Pathfinder]

OK I was trying to make a point about quality the costco tubs made by hydrospa have lesser quality equipment like controls, relays, less layers of fibreglass backing, lesser quality foam, a cheaper type skirt and a bunch of other issues.

They dress it up all shiny and nice so they can say hey its looks like a top end spa but will we'll give you a better price because we buy in bullk. Bulls#&t!!! Maybe this might make more sense a costco from hydro is like having a corvette only equipped with a used 4 cylinder engine, 8-track player,milk crate seats & 10" whitewalls. You can say you have a vette but how reliable will it be and is it really a vette???

[NightRyder]

My final 2 cents before I go away again. Are the Costco tubs the equivalent of top of the line tubs like Hot Springs or Marquis? No of course not. Are they the POS some here make them out to be? In my experience with my own tub, no. I consider the $3400 I spent on my tub to be well worth it and I don't think there is a tub out there that can justify a price above $6K based solely on superior components. I work about 15-20 minutes from the Marquis factory and have known several people who work or have worked for them. The actual cost to manufacture one of their spas is about 48%-50% of the MSRP, of course you have to add profit, shipping, marketing, service and dealer markup to that. That brings us to value, which is subjective. People assign value based on their own wants, needs and expectations. What is of high value to one person may of little value to another, that doesn't make either one of them wrong. I purchased my spa where I did for several reasons but the main one was Costco's return policy. This was our first spa and I wasn't going to invest a lot of money in one without knowing that I could return it if it wasn't going to be used past the initial few months. Now that I know that we will continue to use a spa I would be more comfortable buying a spa without the liberal return policy but there is still no way I would pay more than $5K or $6K for one, personally I don't see the value in it.

NightRyder

[New NW tub owner]

OK I was trying to make a point about quality the costco tubs made by hydrospa have lesser quality equipment like controls, relays, less layers of fibreglass backing, lesser quality foam, a cheaper type skirt and a bunch of other issues.

They dress it up all shiny and nice so they can say hey its looks like a top end spa but will we'll give you a better price because we buy in bullk. Bulls#&t!!! Maybe this might make more sense a costco from hydro is like having a corvette only equipped with a used 4 cylinder engine, 8-track player,milk crate seats & 10" whitewalls. You can say you have a vette but how reliable will it be and is it really a vette???

You say that the costco tubs have 'lesser quality equipment' which does not seem to be true, based on what I can see. The controls and relays in my costco tub appear to be of typical quality for hot tubs in general...and I've seen a lot of controls and relays over the years. Say that the hot tub has a couple of jet pumps, a heater, light, blower, circulation pump, and ozonator. You could buy industrial controls for all of that along with a nice PLC from someone like Allen Bradley. The cost would be about $10,000 for just the controls but they would run for a long time. The hot tub guys have developed a very inexpensive dedicated package that does all of that with digital controls and relays that they sell as a spa pack that costs a few hundred dollars, never mind if it's 'low end' or 'high end.' From a serious controls point of view EVERY spa pack is 'very low end' but I've actually been very impressed with what they put into the spa control package for very little money compared with 'real' controls. They can do that because they sell a specialized package designed to do only one thing (run hot tub equip), they sell it in volume, and they cut a few corners but the spa packs are still UL approved and seem to work quite well. With all of that said, the Balboa controls in my costco tub seem to be as good as anyone elses spa pack being sold right now.

The spa shell seems to be actually a little thicker and more solid than the other tubs I've seen. Certainly it has as many layers of fiberglass as anyone elses. The skirt on the costco tub seems very nice as well. The panels are all synthetic faux wood material which was very important to me because of the wet climate that my tub is in. Real wood would not last very long without a lot of maintenance. The synthetic panels have been outside all winter and wet for most of that time and still look like new with no mildew growing on them yet. I also put in some trex decking next to the tub and it has a small amount of mildew and moss growing on it but nothing serious yet. It'll need annual washing though. I can't really say much about the foam other than that it's there and seems to do the job. I haven't opened up the pump compartment since last fall because it's been wet and cold but I'll do that in a few weeks and see how things look in there, including the foam.

Roger hinted that the costco tubs used $10 nozzles instead of $40 nozzles. I have no idea what the difference between a $10 nozzle is and a $40 nozzle and I don't see any obvious identification on the outside of the nozzles but they seem to do the job okay. The water just squirts out of them. They are still as smooth and shiny as when the tub was new and they turn on and off like they are supposed to. Maybe someone else can say what the $40 nozzles give you that the $10 nozzles do not. Corrrosion resistance? Is there a difference is the type of plastic used or something?

[104 Degrees]

...and I've seen a lot of controls and relays over the years. , including the foam.

How do you know all of this being a "new hot tub owner"?

[Trigger]

How do you know all of this being a "new hot tub owner"?

I'm guess that since he dropped the name "Allen Bradley" he's in a technical field and has seen controllers for many things, not specifcally Hot tubs.

(allen Bradely is a billion dollar company that makes high end automation equipment, electical components, sensors and even has a line for hobbyists)

[New NW tub owner]

Not sure why NW posted the topic, but he is avoiding the dead-on argument that if, by his logic, PE2 is better value than many name brand tubs, then WalMart and SamsClub tubs are a better value than PE2. His rejection of this argument will bring us back to the more logical conclusion that, ultimately, you get what you pay for. NW hoist by --or with-- his own petard. A lovely sight.

I don't mean to avoid your 'argument.' I've just never seen a WalMart or Sam's Club hot tub (isn't sam's club part of WalMart?) so I have no idea how they compare with the Costco hot tubs. I did look at hot tubs at Loew's Home Improvement and Home Depot, though, before buying the Costco tub, and their tubs didn't seem to be quite in the same leaque as the Costco tubs. They didn't have as many features (such as # jets, pumps, radio/cd, light, and ozonator), they were a little bit smaller, the shells didn't look as good, and the general fit and finish didn't seem as good, although that's very subjective. As I recall, the Home Depot tub was a few hundred dollars less than the costco tub and the Loew's tub was a few hundred dollars more.

[104 Degrees]

I'm guess that since he dropped the name "Allen Bradley" he's in a technical field and has seen controllers for many things, not specifcally Hot tubs.

(allen Bradely is a billion dollar company that makes high end automation equipment, electical components, sensors and even has a line for hobbiest)

Do they make parts for Hydro spa???

[soakerman]

Do they make parts for Hydro spa???

sure, the ten dollar jet Roger is refering to:) What is the diff in a low end jet and a high end?

[104 Degrees]

sure, the ten dollar jet Roger is refering to:) What is the diff in a low end jet and a high end?

I dont know??? you tell me??

[soakerman]

I dont know??? you tell me??

My jets in my spa seem flawless so I wasn't sure what the diff is.

[Pathfinder]

Ill post a pic showing a cheap waterways version VS a higher end waterways version in a bit

[104 Degrees]

Ill post a pic showing a cheap waterways version VS a higher end waterways version in a bit

Cool

[Roger]

Ill post a pic showing a cheap waterways version VS a higher end waterways version in a bit

The catolog has exactly 61 pages of jets. After about 5-6 years the differences become alot more apparent. Anyone ever take one out to have it fall apart in your hand, and then have to replace it because there was nothing left, I have. Everytime I did i cringed wondering if the bodie was going to blow up also.

[Jim_The_Jim]

As one of the evil "naysayers" I think it's time we (all the other "naysayers") come clean and just admit that these tubs are just as good as more expensive tubs. These lies have gone on long enough. All the posts that we made up about the tubs having poor insulation, questionable construction, unknown longevity are obviously not working. Our plan to team up will all the hot tub owners who are furious that they paid thousands more for their tub and now have buyers remorse also has backfired. It's time we just face the fact that Hydro has revolutionized the way tubs will be made in the future, making tubs that are of the exact same quality for thousands less then the ones we all sell from the mother ship. I plan to discuss this at the next secret meeting (if I can remember the secret knock).

I agree, they are just as good as the "big boy" major brands and better made than some selling for over 10,000.

Buyers need to educate themselves and not waste money, nor shoud they support rip off prices on mediocre products, touted as "the best spas".

[soakerman]

The catolog has exactly 61 pages of jets. After about 5-6 years the differences become alot more apparent. Anyone ever take one out to have it fall apart in your hand, and then have to replace it because there was nothing left, I have. Everytime I did i cringed wondering if the bodie was going to blow up also.

So what makes you think the Costco tub employs these allegid cheaper quality jets or is that just a assumption based on the sticker price of the spa?

[Roger]

So what makes you think the Costco tub employs these allegid cheaper quality jets or is that just a assumption based on the sticker price of the spa?

Yes I assumed it from the past history of Hydro, my experience looking at loads of used units in need of repair and the price of the tub. Because I have never seen a Costco Platinum whatever. But Hydro has made plenty of tubs for plenty of different box stores. In this area it's Home Depot. I have to do that. But I can give you a pretty good assumption, because in this country they don't give nothing away, you always get what you pay for. What would make you think they are not the lessor expensive components? Other than they have lasted a year or two with no problems, because I know you will say that. My waterway jets on my GL are 6 years old and starting to show a bit of brittlness and wear. Matter of fact all the plastic components are.