Going on a 4th Balboa circuit board in 5 years, is this normal?

[DesertRat77]

Hi long time lurker first time poster. I have a Beachcomber LEED 300 with a Balboa circuit board, originally purchased in Nov of 2017 (powered through a professionally installed exterior GFCI breaker box) & I'm trying to figure out if I should take it to the dump or give it another chance.

In April of 2020 our first circuit board died. We replaced it through the only game in town, the original spa store it had been purchased at ($415 for the new board + $165 for labor).

In November of 2020 our 2nd circuit board died. Called the spa store, the tech took a photo (below), said "heater lug is burned off of the circuit board and has ruined the circuit board". Since it was only 7 months old it was replaced free of charge. Was on backorder then installed on Dec 29th 2020. 

 

I was working 80 hour weeks through the pandemic and not paying much attention to the performance of the spa other than weekly chemicals & cleaning. I noticed in August of 2021 that even though the spa was set to 100 degrees in eco mode (set to 2 cycles daily) and not currently in a cycle at 3pm the heater light was on & the water was scorching to the touch. Measured with an external thermometer at 107 degrees. Contacted the spa store, they said the hot water is normal & due to "atmospheric heat" since its summer. She didn't seem to think the heater light being on when it shouldn't be was anything to worry about. The day I took the measurement it was in the low 90s outside. Started checking daily & every time I opened the cover that heater light was on. So we turned it down to 90, resulting in water measured at 104. A week later the water dropped to 100 so I set the spa to 100 and it was back to measuring 107-108. We somehow never got the OH error but it was HOT. In sept of 2021 we paid for a service call for the spa store to come check it. Tech checked settings & all were set as they should be but said it definitely seemed like something was "off". He called Balboa who told him the only thing that would cause that behavior is the board being bad. He cut power on the breaker, uninstalled & re-installed the same board and did something to reset the whole system, and things seemed to return to normal.

For the past year the heater light is not always on like it was before the "reset" but it is on about 50% of the time I check it when it is half-way between cycles and should not be on. I never did another service call to diagnose since they didn't seem to know what it was the first time & I'd rather save my $100. We went to do the chemicals the other day and its completely dead, no power at all to the topside panel. We reset the breaker, still nothing. Open up the circuit board and we have this gem:

I have since read that sometimes these bolts need to be checked & tightened every once & a while. I sure wish the tech would have told me that when he installed board #3. Is that seriously what this over and over again is or could there be something bigger at play? I'm not in a position to spend another $650 on yet another board to end up back in this same position a year from now. I think this is the definition of insanity. 

Here's the zinger: since board #3 our electricity bills are getting bigger and bigger every month. We barely use any electricity; all LED bulbs and energystar appliances, our home is heated with propane and a wood stove in winter, swamp cooler in summer. We couldn't figure out why our usage seemingly keeps increasing 2-3 fold. The power company has an hourly chart showing our usage going back 3 years so out of curiosity I checked today. We were averaging around .67kWh for the 2.5 years on spa circuit boards #1 and 2. The day circuit board #3 was installed we averaged 2.6kWh (4x the usual). The day in August 2020 when I emailed the spa store about the heater light being on and the temp at 107 our usage shows spikes of 4.5kWh from 9pm solid until 6am! This board melted 2 days ago and we're back down to an avg .58kWh of power usage in our house yesterday.

So do I spend more money I don't have diagnosing and fixing this mess or do I enjoy my life without $300 electric bills in winter? Is this kind of electricity usage normal? Is this kind of yearly board replacement typical? I really enjoy the spa when I do get to use it but it feels like its been broken more than its been working since we've had it.

[DesertRat77]

I should specify, my kWh are hourly averages for the day. So when I say we're "averaging .67kWh" that's per hour. Or for days when the spa seems to be a runaway train we're looking at averages of 2.6kWh per hour with spikes between 3.5-5kWh. Our baseline charge starts at 12kw per day in winter so the spa by itself is (was) reaching our daily baseline allotment and taking us into a 2nd price tier. 

[RDspaguy]

What size is the wire to the spa?

Is the gfci functional (test button trips it)?

Was the heater or sensors replaced? 

Are there any errors on the display?

The damage in both pics could be from loose/corroded connections, excessive amp draw, heater dry-fire (running with no water), boil-out (heater running with no pump), cycling (turning on/off frequently from low flow or faulty sensor), or a heater short with a bad gfci.

I would suggest you get a complete replacement pack, new box, heater, topside, the works. Online it will cost about as much as the board replacement did, but it's new everything but the pumps. Then I'd get the pump rebuilt ($150 or so at any electric motor shop) or verify it's not overheating and shutting off mid-cycle. Then check for cycling or boil-out indicating a flow issue that may be causing the damage.

The heat light flickers rapidly when the spa needs to heat. A solid heat light means the heater should be on. If the heater is not heating (because of the board damage) the heat light will be on pretty much non-stop, as will the low speed pump until it reaches temp.

Economy mode determines when the heater is allowed to turn on, but does not effect when it turns off, so it will continue to run the pump and heater until the spa has reached temperature, even beyond the filter cycle.

Heat damage at the terminals can cause relays to stick, temporarily or permanently, which would result in an overheat of the spa, but would cause errors (and boil-out) if the pump turns off.

A spa running the pump non-stop (or nearly so) due to a heater issue will use more energy compared to a properly working spa. Typical low speed pump draws about 3.5 amps at 240v, which is .84kw/hr by itself, with higher hp pumps pulling more. But the high speed is usually about 3× that, and the heater is either 4kw or 5.5kw any time it's on. But a failed heater results in continuous pump run.

[DesertRat77]

@RDspaguy I'm not sure how to find out what the service panel is but the spa is 240v. The panel was added by a licensed electrician who does all of the spa store's installs so I would hope its ok. We had the electrical current in tested by a tech at one point as well. Our house has a large updated main panel w/ 4 dedicated circuits going to the service panel & we've never had any electrical issues or flickering or anything in our house that would lead me to believe we have issues with the electrical. The GFCI is functional & trips. We added a new GFCI just to be safe with the first circuit board replacement so its only 2 years old. 

None of the heater or sensors or anything else have ever thrown an error or been replaced. We've never gotten any errors other than the topside panel saying "1.8.8.8" the first time the circuit board died. I was surprised we didn't get any errors in the phase of it heating to 107+ all the time. I can't check for errors now because there is zero power at the spa, all dark controls.

We watch the pump & cycles like a hawk, the pump runs at 8am and 8pm as scheduled but the heater continues on with a solid light for many hours (sometimes 2-6) after the pump has finished. I.e. it is totally silent, no water circulating, but the orange light stays solid for hours (days?) after the pump is done. I can look at our electrical hourly use and see daily when the pump kicks on with the heater but sometimes the high kWh continues long after the pump is off. When that is happening I can re-set the temp 10 degrees lower & the light will stay orange as if it is still heating. We sometimes get in at 11pm and note that the pump is off & cycle would have been long over, the panel shows the water as being at (or often above) the set temp yet that orange light is still on for the heater. 

We keep the chemicals balanced, clean it & top it off often as needed so I can't imagine anything is damaged because of low water or corrosion etc. The jets all work well & seem to have plenty of flow power. And like I said I don't think the power consumption is due to the pump because I only hear it running in the scheduled times. But if a failed heater results in continuous pump run and the pump is only running as scheduled then can I rule out the heater having failed?

I'm just wondering if this is worth it for me to throw more time and money at it or if this behavior points to anything obvious. Another panel + a complete rebuild of everything else & the licensed labor to put it all back together (we live in a remote area where getting someone out costs a fortune) plus what I've already spent repairing it will equate to more than it cost new. I feel like I got a lemon, its a bummer because I really enjoy watching the stars from the spa.

 

[wapa711970]

It's completely normal to replace the board nearly every year, NOT! I'm in a similar situation and I've decided not to fix my 22 year old tub any more and enjoy more money in my pocket and a lower electricity bill. Maybe in a few years I'll get a used one. 

[RDspaguy]

17 hours ago, DesertRat77 said:

can't check for errors now because there is zero power at the spa, all dark controls.

So this shut down the entire control system? This type of damage usually just prevents heating, but pumps and controls still work.

17 hours ago, DesertRat77 said:

but the heater continues on with a solid light for many hours (sometimes 2-6) after the pump has finished. I.e. it is totally silent, no water circulating, but the orange light stays solid for hours (days?)

Sounds like a dipswitch issue. Post a pic of the whole circuit board, wiring diagram on the box cover, and equipment area.

17 hours ago, DesertRat77 said:

We sometimes get in at 11pm and note that the pump is off & cycle would have been long over, the panel shows the water as being at (or often above) the set temp yet that orange light is still on for the heater. 

Maybe the light has shorted. You really need to test for voltage to the heater when it's doing this, but if it's now not working at all that's not an option.

17 hours ago, DesertRat77 said:

But if a failed heater results in continuous pump run and the pump is only running as scheduled then can I rule out the heater having failed?

A failed heater means it doesn't heat, so the pump continues to run to heat as it "doesn't know" the heater isn't working. The huge burn in the board is a heater failure, as the heater won't work because of it. With that kind of heat damage, I'd put a new element in it even if it tested good.

17 hours ago, DesertRat77 said:

We keep the chemicals balanced, clean it & top it off often as needed so I can't imagine anything is damaged because of low water or corrosion etc. 

All due respect, but that's what everyone says. As a tech with 26 years of experience, I can tell you that most people are wrong in the assumption that they are doing a good job at water chemistry. While corrosion is likely not the cause here, since your gfci is working, I would bet there's some corrosion on that element anyway.

17 hours ago, DesertRat77 said:

& the licensed labor to put it all back together (we live in a remote area where getting someone out costs a fortune)

This would be DIY with our advice. A pack swap is easy as it's identical to the old one. If you can change a tire you should do fine.

17 hours ago, DesertRat77 said:

feel like I got a lemon,

Only you can decide if it's worth fixing. My suggestion would have new/rebuilt everything and would only leave a possible but unlikely flow restriction or more unlikely electrical issue as the problem. And have you back in a spa for under $1k, which you'll only manage otherwise with an inflatable. But if it's all beat up, you don't use it much, don't like the electric bill, or are ready to sign on a $15k new Sundance, then get rid of it. I can tell you how to fix it but I can't make it worthwhile, that's on you. All I can say is that it's just a box of parts, and the only thing not replaceable is the shell.

[DesertRat77]

Yes it shut down the whole entire thing. Complete blackness.

Right before board #2 went out it was behaving similarly to this one, the heater was running more than it should have been. Except when that one went out we got the 1.8.8.8 code. Mind you we may have gotten the code this time and just not caught it before everything went black. When board 2 went out they sent it back to Balboa with the intention of finding out if Balboa could trace the issue to something with the board or something with my power supply before we installed board #3 & Balboa got back to them that they had determined it was a faulty circuit board. So then its like how many of those were faulty, is it possible the replacement board (current board) sent to us a few months later was from the same batch? Especially since the tech called them and they said it sounded like a board issue again.

I think I could DIY it, I just question if I have enough time. My job can go from zero to 100 with no notice. In hindsight I should have just had them replace the 3rd board that was under warranty when Balboa said it seemed like a board issue. They reset it & told me to keep an eye on it and honestly I got sucked into work again & the heater running nonstop became an afterthought. Maybe I'm safe to pay for a 4th board and monitor it like a hawk and have it replaced within the warranty period if it does this again. 

I'll get out there tomorrow & post a pic of the schematic & board etc. in case.

[RDspaguy]

6 hours ago, DesertRat77 said:

Balboa got back to them that they had determined it was a faulty circuit board.

That's what they always say when they don't know. 

6 hours ago, DesertRat77 said:

Maybe I'm safe to pay for a 4th board

https://www.spadepot.com/Balboa-BP7-Spa-Control-Kit-P3185

If you do buy just a board, get sensors and a heating element too. 

I'll say that this is a very unusual situation. New boards are almost never bad, and burned out heater terminals do not usually damage other parts of the board or make it stop working. Going through boards like this says it's something else, and could be loose terminals, but that seems unlikely multiple times too. It makes less sense the more details we get. 

@CanadianSpaTech, your thoughts?

 

[CanadianSpaTech]

15 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

Post a pic of the whole circuit board, wiring diagram on the box cover, and equipment area.

 

[DesertRat77]

Ok I'll get the pics today. We have covid so moving a little slowly . . .

I just thought of something new. Of the 4 dedicated circuits on our main panel that go to the breaker box for the spa, one which controls a switch for a small pendant light aimed at the spa has been out since spring of 2018. We don't enjoy illuminating ourselves while in the spa thus don't use the light & never replaced the circuit. Our first board went out 2 years later in spring of 2020 and no electrician or tech who has measured the load or worked on the spa since has brought this up as a potential issue, but is it possible?

[DesertRat77]

Ok pics attached here. The circuit board is covered in black wispy things from having caught fire. We're in the desert so I don't imagine this is the cleanest interior area you've seen but my tub is sparkling. 

[RDspaguy]

Dipswitches appear to be correct. 

On 12/23/2022 at 1:16 PM, DesertRat77 said:

Of the 4 dedicated circuits on our main panel that go to the breaker box for the spa

4? The spa disconnect should have one circuit feeding it. While it can have multiple breakers in the box, it should not have multiple breakers feeding it. Post pics of spa disconnect with cover removed.

 

[DesertRat77]

Sorry I don't think I worded that right. The main panel has 4 switches labeled spa. So these 4:

(with the bottom one being the one connected to the exterior pendant light next to the spa)

Feeds this (currently set to off to be safe):

[CanadianSpaTech]

Remove the gfci cover and post pic

[RDspaguy]

So, when you turn off these 4 breakers it turns off the spa? 

[DesertRat77]

21 hours ago, CanadianSpaTech said:

Remove the gfci cover and post pic

Here you go

5 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

So, when you turn off these 4 breakers it turns off the spa? 

I just turn off the spa by turning of the switches in the breaker box/sub next to the spa, I never touch the 4 on the main that apparently feed the breaker box (pictured above)

[RDspaguy]

That label must be a mistake. There is no way those 4 breakers are feeding that disconnect. There should be a 2-pole 50 amp breaker, just like the disconnect but no test button, in your main panel feeding the spa disconnect. 

[DesertRat77]

9 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

That label must be a mistake. There is no way those 4 breakers are feeding that disconnect. There should be a 2-pole 50 amp breaker, just like the disconnect but no test button, in your main panel feeding the spa disconnect. 

Maybe they labeled it in reference to the spa area. Since I know the 1 tripped goes to the pendant light next to the spa maybe the 4th mystery switch goes to an outlet or something over there or maybe its capped somewhere waiting to be used at some point in the future? So if the 1 tripped doesn't have anything to do with the feed to the actual spa I guess I'm back to square one trying to figure out why this keeps happening.

[CanadianSpaTech]

Post pics of the main panel. Has to be a double pole 50/60 amp in there somewhere. 

 

[DesertRat77]

Ok here's the main, where I also discovered a huge black widow, her dead ex stashed in a corner, and a dozen egg sacs I apparently need to vacuum out asap. Good times.

Section labeled "spa" is outlined in red in my pics:

 

[DesertRat77]

Here's the main, many missing labels or so faint you can't read them. These were there when I bought the house, I need to check & re-label. I realize it says dryer twice and spa on the left as well but I'm 99% sure that is actually the laundry room which also houses the wiring for our HVAC, hence the large circuits. As I'm tying this it occurs to me my HVAC guy could have moved some things around in there when I had central A/C installed 4 years ago. I wasn't home at the time. Maybe it used to be the spa? That doesn't make sense as whatever the spa is would be hard wired into the breaker box. I'm confused how both could be labeled spa.

 

[CanadianSpaTech]

Looking at the 2 black wires (and White) going into the GFCI box from the main panel the area that you circled in red is not a match for the size of wire in the GFCI. The only breakers I can see that match are the weird dryer/spa/dryer 30/50/30 breaker and the 50 amp below it. I'm going with the 50 amp below it but if it is the weird 30/50/30 breaker I have never seen that and it would make me question the set up. It is marked Spa. Suggest you use a multi meter to confirm.  @RDspaguy what you see?... also spiders and snakes NOPE! Here in Canada might find a chipmunk or squirrel but nothing that can kill you.

[DesertRat77]

I'm going to have to get those eggs ((shudder!)). I can try to label them tomorrow to figure out what is what. Its long overdue. I found the original photos of the main panel from our home inspection when we bought in 2018 (below). So the "spa" on the right is original and the "spa/dryer" on the left has since been added - not my handwriting. I'd bet a million dollars my HVAC guy changed some things around in there when he installed the central A/C as it seems like that would require an equivalent power draw. Maybe I should call an electrician again. But let me know what to check with my multimeter & I'll do it. Thanks so much for all the help.

 

[CanadianSpaTech]

Leave the GFCI off and test for 240V at the 2 black wires just below the GFCI on the left. Turn each breaker in the off one at a time until you don't get 240V. That is the spa breaker. Let us know what one it is. If it is one of the 30/50/30 breakers I have questions about the set up... but I am the furthest thing from a qualified electrician and will defer to @RDspaguy

[RDspaguy]

I see those double breakers all the time. It's the 50 amp marked spa.