sefanzed Posted March 30, 2020 Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 Hi... I'm looking for input. I have 2006 Hot Springs Envoy that runs, heater works, etc. However, lately the 20 amp breaker trips randomly (about once every two days or so). Is the heater the issue (the 4k heater is definitely on that circuit), or could it be my ozonator or Spaudio unit? I've tried to figure out what else could be the problem. I've made sure the recirculation pump is functioning properly and all the filters are clean. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletonia Posted March 30, 2020 Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 The heater is the only thing on the 20A breaker. Usually their heaters don't trip the breaker when they fail and usually when a heater fails, it fails. Based on the age, I would look into the breaker. Breakers get old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sefanzed Posted March 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 Thanks. I was looking at a new Hotsprings Breaker on Ebay. Cheaper than a new heater... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sefanzed Posted March 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 Here's another question. Occasionally when I run the spa for longer than 45-50 minutes it turns off by itself. Usually with no error message/lights. I was told this was a result of the lights—which I upgraded, however the issue persists. Resetting Spa (power cycling) resolves the issue. Most of the time I'm not in there long enough fo is to occur, but I'm curious if anyone has any suggestions... Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 20 minutes ago, sefanzed said: Here's another question. Occasionally when I run the spa for longer than 45-50 minutes it turns off by itself. Usually with no error message/lights. I was told this was a result of the lights—which I upgraded, however the issue persists. Resetting Spa (power cycling) resolves the issue. Most of the time I'm not in there long enough fo is to occur, but I'm curious if anyone has any suggestions... Thanks in advance! Does it trip the breaker after 45 min or do the pumps just shut off and you can restart them just by pressing the Jet button? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sefanzed Posted March 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 Actually, the Spa just turns off. The breakers don't reset, the spa simply goes dead. No button presses can restart it. Only a power cycle allows it be restarted. Sometimes the red and green lights blink, and the LCD displays all of the content (as a test, I assume), but no error code. And, to make it even more maddening, it's inconsistent. Sometimes the panel simply goes blank and the red and green lights go dark. I've had several techs look at this and they've all come up with solutions that don't pan out... It is an old spa and my own feeling is perhaps the motherboard has become flaky... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 Could be. I would try the breakers first. What you describe sounds like the other breaker might have issues as well. It could be a transformer issue, which is on the board. But, as someone else said, breakers get old. So do fuses. Usually when a fuse goes, it goes. But I have seen a few times where they did some strange things. It is unlikely, but a small investment compared to the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 After 45 mins running it could be getting to hot inside the cabinet from the pumps and shutting down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sefanzed Posted March 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 The heat in the cabinet is an interesting idea. Is there a sensor inside the spa? Or would it be a thermal breaker on one of the pumps. If the latter is true, wouldn’t only one pump shut down,or would the logic board crash? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 Pump running for a 15 min cycle can get to 160-180 degrees and if there is not enough ventilation it might run the 15 mins without problem but if you go 30, 40 ,50 mins or longer it can get pretty hot in there if the pump can't shed heat. The excess heat can cause a variety of inconsistent (warm day/cold day) errors and failures even complete shutdowns. You can insulate the F out of spas but they still have to breath. Not saying this is your issue but one to consider. RD where you at on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 Pumps do have a thermal cut off, but it is a very high temperature. Boards also have thermal protection, usually in the form of a fuse in my experience, but can have electronics issues long before that fuse blows. Also, transformers do not function properly when overly hot. I think your description sounds like a power issue. It could be the transformer getting hot, or the equipment in general. I suspect you have a failing breaker that is getting hot enough in the box to trip the one next to it, and cause power interruptions, possibly even dropping a leg. Both are easy enough to diagnose. For equipment bay, just remove the side panel and see if things clear up. For breaker, touch breakers when it is acting up. They should never be hot, or even warmer than the box they are in, to the touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sefanzed Posted March 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 Thanks guys, I'll check both possibilities. I'd like to get another five years out of it if we can. We ready do enjoy having it. I just did a purge/flush (first time in 14 years) in hopes that might alleviate some of the issues, or at least address the efficiency of the plumbing. Unbelievable amount of grease came up, so that at least, is a start. Additionally, my ozonizer is about 2 years old (a Pacifica X-50) so it's probably time to replace also. In California where we're facing chronic water shortages, I don't get to refill the tub 4x a year as recommenced. Instead, I only refill twice a year unless the water gets super-funky. Again, thanks very much for your input. I'll post again when I explore the breakers and the venting issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 Leave the panel closed and create the problem then open it and see how hot it is in the cabinet and how hot the pumps are getting. Also check the breaker for excessive heat at this time. I would also disconnect the ozone to take it out of the scenario for the time being and take the filters out but that is just habit for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletonia Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 Hot Spring has exhaust vents on the back of the motors. Most of the pump heat is recycled back into the hot tub so the equipment area shouldn’t get that hot. I don’t have tons of experience on the older models. Unless it is something obvious like the heater or breaker, you could be chasing a needle in a haystack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratchett Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 23 hours ago, sefanzed said: I'd like to get another five years out of it if we can. We ready do enjoy having it. Hotspring highlife spas are built to last. Hell my dealer takes trade-ins on 10-year old highlife series hot tubs, and will refurbish then resell them on their showroom floor at a discounted price. I recently met a neighbor who has a Hotspring built in 1989 still running after all these years. The trick seems to be keeping them properly maintained and not letting them sit dry for extended periods of time. Hopefully you get things figured out - that Envoy could have another decade+ of life left in it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sefanzed Posted April 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2020 Hi, Here's a follow up. Replaced the 20 amp CGFI breaker in the sub panel. It's been a day and a half and it hasn't tripped! Safe to say that was the root of the issue. Thanks to all who chimed in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted April 8, 2020 Report Share Posted April 8, 2020 Is the shuting off issue also resolved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sefanzed Posted April 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2020 No, the shutting off issue is still under investigation. I'm replacing the temp and limit sensors in the heater. We'll see if that addresses anything. I'm approaching this little by little. I'm trying not to throw parts at the spa, but some components are due to be refreshed. I'll let you know where I end up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sefanzed Posted April 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2020 Regarding the shutdown issue. It appears the circuit board is getting overheated. The 2006 Envoy doesn't have an error code for that. After the spa shut down, I opened the equipment compartment and looked into the circuit board enclosure. The board and enclosure were very warm. Reset the breaker and kept the compartment and enclosure open... No problem. So, I'm led to conclude that over the years some component has aged in, causing the logic board to shut down at a lower temperature than it was originally designed to handle. Does anyone have an idea what that component might be? I don't want to replace the entire logic board if there's an alternative. Any ideas? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted April 20, 2020 Report Share Posted April 20, 2020 Transformer. The board should not be hot, the transformer is the biggest heat source in there. Relays can cause some heat, but usually not enough to shut down the electronics, even if bad. When a transformer gets too hot it will not work, which is like turning off the power to the control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sefanzed Posted April 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2020 Here's another take... I replaced one of the motors with a non-Watkins motor. There's no provision to vent, as there is with the Wavemaster motors. Also, I can confirm the entire cabinet gets very hot after an hour of use... I'm thinking of installing an exhaust fan to vent the cabinet, using the vent that is currently not connected to the new motor. That might solve the issue, however, now the challenge is finding a 110 connection that powers on when the spa is running. I have a couple of unused power connectors, which I assume are for accessories... I'll have to do some testing with a voltmeter to see if they are only powered on when the spa is running... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 Maybe. I would think some venting woulds suffice. How hot is that motor? Can you touch it after it's been running and keep your hand on it? What brand of motor is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sefanzed Posted April 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 I'll have to check the brand, however both the wave master and the other motor get very hot after about 45 minutes. Since the Wavemaster has venting built onto it, (directs heat into the spa cabinet) the area around it presumably doesn't get as hot. The other motor has no provision to redirect the heat it produces. I'm planning to install an axial fan coupled onto the 4" tube that used to connect to the previous motor that was replaced. As I mentioned, I've got to find a 110v connection that energizes when the spa is on. Hopefully that will alleviate the issue to some degree (pun intended). The watkins has it's own proprietary power plugs, but once I find one that's suitable, I can snip it off and install a regular ac plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sefanzed Posted May 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 Question... Does anyone know the operating temperature range of the Watkin's IQ2020 circuit board? I've been looking for specs online and can't find them anywhere. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 @castletonia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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