Evolution Hot Tubs

[walleye]

Every one knows that Strong Hot Tubs make the Evolution Hot Tub sold by Costco. I read all kinds of posts about how Costco sucks, but I see nobody that has bought one say the tub sucks. I want to know for once if the tubs are decent or not. For 3-4K savings they have to REALLY suck. So far, most reviews I see are positive and most slams are from dealers competing. I never have owned a hot tub and am close to buying one. That is why I am asking questions looking for a honest answer. As of right now, dealer support, no circulation pump are the negatives I have learned. That does not add up to 3-4K (or more) In my opinion. Prove me wrong...please before I make a mistake. Is a Strong Hot Tub that bad?

[david_bilton]

Every one knows that Strong Hot Tubs make the Evolution Hot Tub sold by Costco. I read all kinds of posts about how Costco sucks, but I see nobody that has bought one say the tub sucks. I want to know for once if the tubs are decent or not. For 3-4K savings they have to REALLY suck. So far, most reviews I see are positive and most slams are from dealers competing. I never have owned a hot tub and am close to buying one. That is why I am asking questions looking for a honest answer. As of right now, dealer support, no circulation pump are the negatives I have learned. That does not add up to 3-4K (or more) In my opinion. Prove me wrong...please before I make a mistake. Is a Strong Hot Tub that bad?

no they are a good starter tub for some one unsure if they what to be hut tub people good luck and welcome to the forum

[spawn]

I think that the Strong tubs sold at Costco are worth what you pay for them, but not more. You may be very happy with one.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Every one knows that Strong Hot Tubs make the Evolution Hot Tub sold by Costco. I read all kinds of posts about how Costco sucks, but I see nobody that has bought one say the tub sucks. I want to know for once if the tubs are decent or not. For 3-4K savings they have to REALLY suck. So far, most reviews I see are positive and most slams are from dealers competing. I never have owned a hot tub and am close to buying one. That is why I am asking questions looking for a honest answer. As of right now, dealer support, no circulation pump are the negatives I have learned. That does not add up to 3-4K (or more) In my opinion. Prove me wrong...please before I make a mistake. Is a Strong Hot Tub that bad?

Here is my take:

1) Costco has a VERY poor history with the hot tubs they have sold. Their emphasis has been on price, not quality and brand after brand has been junk. The only thing that saved past owners was teh return policy and they were returned all right.

2) Strong is a recent offering from Costco. There simply is not enough history to really decide if they are more of the same from Costco or if they're an upgrade from the past offerings. Those who support them say they are a good spa but more time is needed. Others will say "if you don't learn from history you're bound to repeat it". Time will tell.

3) There is no 3-4k savings on these spas. They wouldn't sell for that much more if sold by a dealer.

4) These spas are for real DIYers IMO. If all goes well then great but when issues arise you need to be able to troubleshoot them yourself.

If not having a dealer isn't a big issue for you and they really are better than Costco's previous mistakes and your budget is limited then maybe it'll be a decent option for you.

[DK117]

Every one knows that Strong Hot Tubs make the Evolution Hot Tub sold by Costco. I read all kinds of posts about how Costco sucks, but I see nobody that has bought one say the tub sucks. I want to know for once if the tubs are decent or not. For 3-4K savings they have to REALLY suck. So far, most reviews I see are positive and most slams are from dealers competing. I never have owned a hot tub and am close to buying one. That is why I am asking questions looking for a honest answer. As of right now, dealer support, no circulation pump are the negatives I have learned. That does not add up to 3-4K (or more) In my opinion. Prove me wrong...please before I make a mistake. Is a Strong Hot Tub that bad?

Here is my take:

1) Costco has a VERY poor history with the hot tubs they have sold. Their emphasis has been on price, not quality and brand after brand has been junk. The only thing that saved past owners was teh return policy and they were returned all right.

2) Strong is a recent offering from Costco. There simply is not enough history to really decide if they are more of the same from Costco or if they're an upgrade from the past offerings. Those who support them say they are a good spa but more time is needed. Others will say "if you don't learn from history you're bound to repeat it". Time will tell.

3) There is no 3-4k savings on these spas. They wouldn't sell for that much more if sold by a dealer.

4) These spas are for real DIYers IMO. If all goes well then great but when issues arise you need to be able to troubleshoot them yourself.

If not having a dealer isn't a big issue for you and they really are better than Costco's previous mistakes and your budget is limited then maybe it'll be a decent option for you.

Spatech. You're a voice of reason, and these are honest questions/feeedback.

2) recent offering. It's been two years now. How long does one have to own a Strong Spa for it to not be a "recent" purchase? I think you'll answer 5 years, but I might be ready for a new tub at 5. My 20 months trouble free has to be worth something, or not?

3) tough one. at bare minimum it's half that. Some dealers the OP is right on. that would be true for any product purchased factory direct. Difference here, which is said by many dealers, is that pricing is different per region. It's totally consistent in the lower 48 for Costco/Strong.

DK117

[arf1410]

4) These spas are for real DIYers IMO. If all goes well then great but when issues arise you need to be able to troubleshoot them yourself.

Not sure if I understand this one. Please explain what you mean in more detail.

If the problem occurs during the warranty period, you call 1-800-strong, and they send out a guy to fix it for free (and people have posted this process works fine). If you bought locally, you call a local number and they send a guy out to fix it. Seems the same to me. If the problem occurs past the warranty period, you either fix yourself, or pay a repairman. This is also true whether the tub was purchased locally, or 1000 miles away. Everything I have read says the Strong/Evolution tubs are manufactured with industry standard components, so getting parts would be no more or less difficult than a tub purchased locally. Are you claiming that past the warranty period a local shop will send a repairman out for free to help you troubleshoot???

On this very bulletin board (and on the costco reviews), there are many people saying they are very satisfied with the support provided by 1-800-strong, and many people complaining about the support provided by their local spa dealer. Now in all fairness, people are more apt to post complaints on internet BB, but not too many have complained yet about Strong

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Every one knows that Strong Hot Tubs make the Evolution Hot Tub sold by Costco. I read all kinds of posts about how Costco sucks, but I see nobody that has bought one say the tub sucks. I want to know for once if the tubs are decent or not. For 3-4K savings they have to REALLY suck. So far, most reviews I see are positive and most slams are from dealers competing. I never have owned a hot tub and am close to buying one. That is why I am asking questions looking for a honest answer. As of right now, dealer support, no circulation pump are the negatives I have learned. That does not add up to 3-4K (or more) In my opinion. Prove me wrong...please before I make a mistake. Is a Strong Hot Tub that bad?

Here is my take:

1) Costco has a VERY poor history with the hot tubs they have sold. Their emphasis has been on price, not quality and brand after brand has been junk. The only thing that saved past owners was teh return policy and they were returned all right.

2) Strong is a recent offering from Costco. There simply is not enough history to really decide if they are more of the same from Costco or if they're an upgrade from the past offerings. Those who support them say they are a good spa but more time is needed. Others will say "if you don't learn from history you're bound to repeat it". Time will tell.

3) There is no 3-4k savings on these spas. They wouldn't sell for that much more if sold by a dealer.

4) These spas are for real DIYers IMO. If all goes well then great but when issues arise you need to be able to troubleshoot them yourself.

If not having a dealer isn't a big issue for you and they really are better than Costco's previous mistakes and your budget is limited then maybe it'll be a decent option for you.

Spatech. You're a voice of reason, and these are honest questions/feeedback.

2) recent offering. It's been two years now. How long does one have to own a Strong Spa for it to not be a "recent" purchase? I think you'll answer 5 years, but I might be ready for a new tub at 5. My 20 months trouble free has to be worth something, or not?

3) tough one. at bare minimum it's half that. Some dealers the OP is right on. that would be true for any product purchased factory direct. Difference here, which is said by many dealers, is that pricing is different per region. It's totally consistent in the lower 48 for Costco/Strong.

DK117

2) 5 years is obviously enough to get a good feel. The fact yours has been good for you is great for you but its just one data point. Every time my wife hears how Pontiac Fieros from the 80s were a mechanical problem car she always says something like "BS, mine was great" and I have to remind her the writer wasnt talking about the specific car that was in her driveway. If something has a 50% satisfaction rating you can always find half the people saying its great. You can probably argue that more time may be needed to call it a success but enough has gone by to say its not the miserable failure some other Costco offerings have been but we'll need more time to evaluate Strong overall.

3) It depends on how you compare them. For instance, sometimes we see people that buy a Viking spa and say they saved $3k over buying a Jacuzzi or Hot Spring. Someone will quickly respond that while it was 3k less ts not a Jacuzzi or Hot Spring so its not really "saving 3k", its "spending 3k less", not the same thing. If the poster here is saying he can spend 3k less for a Strong than for a Premium spa then part of it is the fact that its a non-premium spa. The only real savings in this case are vs what a dealer would sell that same Strong spa for. If that same Strong spa was sold by a dealer it would be more expensive than getting it from Costco but how much more? 1000? I'm not sure.

[Roger]

Every one knows that Strong Hot Tubs make the Evolution Hot Tub sold by Costco. I read all kinds of posts about how Costco sucks, but I see nobody that has bought one say the tub sucks. I want to know for once if the tubs are decent or not. For 3-4K savings they have to REALLY suck. So far, most reviews I see are positive and most slams are from dealers competing. I never have owned a hot tub and am close to buying one. That is why I am asking questions looking for a honest answer. As of right now, dealer support, no circulation pump are the negatives I have learned. That does not add up to 3-4K (or more) In my opinion. Prove me wrong...please before I make a mistake. Is a Strong Hot Tub that bad?

There are definetly compromises made for the 3-4 K. In My Opinion you give up more than a circ pump and dealer support. They are underpowered and not a true hydrotherapy experience. The engineering in the plumbing lends itself in part of the poor power, a louder tub and drain and fill issues that may or may not be important to you. The fit and finish, longevity and warranty are mediocre and yes I have seen several now. It is simply nothing more than a price point tub that you are comprimising to own. That may be all you need and that is fine. But if you do get one, and it may be right for you, do not base the hydrotherapy/hot tub experience you get as the same as all other tubs because to truely compare the differences you need to wet test a high quality/more expensive tub side by side. Then you will KNOW what 3-4 grand gets you.

The return policy can't be beat.

[arf1410]

In anticipation of my Evolution tub delivery soon, I started to look over my Spa-Kem starter kit, also purchased from Costco. Spa-Kem has a 24/7 toll free help line, which I just used to ask a start up question, and they answered well, without even routing me to India! Not sure how many local shops have a 24/7 help line.

Again, I am just confused about what support I would get from a local spa dealer, that I am not getting from a Costco purchase? Though admittedly I am a bit biased against being routed to a call center in another country, it really doesn't matter whether the person answering the phone is 5 miles or 500 miles away...

[endorfin]

Roger, just curious - have you ever wet tested a Strong Spa?

Have you ever repaired a Strong Spa?

If yes, what specific issues did you work on?

What exactly is it about the plumbing that you believe is a problem?

Why are you now saying there is a drain / fill issue?

[hot_water]

Of the respondents comenting on the quality of the Strong product, only DK actually has a Strong spa. Wonder if anyone else on this thread has lived with one, worked on one, or possibly even seen one? Roger has said he has seen ONE... belnging to his friend. Roger's friend bought a Costco Strong. Hmmmm.

I got my CSXi80 a month or so after DK got his. It's been great. Customer service has been excellent. I suggested on this forum that the neck jets needed to be of a type that shut off completely, and Strong Customer Service sent out replacement jets to anyone that asked for them, for free.

I recently drained my tub for a fresh fill and noticed that the gasket under the filter housing looked like it might be degrading slightly. It wasn't leaking. I sent email to Strong with a photo, and the next day , Shelby from Strong CS called to ask when they could arrange for the technician to come out. I said, "It's no big deal - but if you don't mind, just send out a new gasket and I'll change it myself". She sent it, and it took about 30 minutes to change - 20 of which were spent peeling off the old silicone. Yes I did the work, but Strong was all set to send out a tech. Not sure how that makes it a DIY spa. By the way, the whole thing was just me being paranoid... the old gasket wasn't really in bad enough shape to change. Probably would have lasted for years.

My friend has a Sundance. Paid $9k IIRC several years ago. Great spa. He needed a part, so he called the dealer. They won't sell him parts. He HAS to pay for one of their technicians to come out and fix the spa. Labor would be much more money than the part. He got he part somehow - maybe online. Can't remember, doesn't matter. But so much for the dealer service argument.

My Strong has Balboa VS500 series controller, Waterway pumps with AO Smith motors, Waterway jets, what seems to be a decent sturdy shell, and easily the best cabinet I've seen, other than some of the stone-look cabinets offered as extra cost options at the local Sundance place. The all plastic structure has NO wood to rot and NO metal to rust. Even the pump/motors are mounted to a piece of synthetic lumber (looks like Trex). All the screws and washers are stainless steel. Access for repair couldn't be easier. The Balboa parts and Waterway parts are available all over or direct from Strong. The cover is a 5" from Prestige Covers. I've seen better, but this one has held up fine, seals well and has not taken on any water. The hoses are the clear type without mesh reinforcement. The mesh hoses are probably better, but mine have given no trouble. The ends are glued and clamped, just like on other well-built spas.

Jet performance is a little weak for my tastes. Before Chad left, I had him send me out a handful of the jets that Strong uses on their "dealer" version - the Vienna model. I put them on my favorite seat, which is the corner seat by the filter. It helped. The air valves make a bigger difference now. It's still not super powerful, but it's a better experience.

My previous spa had a 24 hour circ pump. I liked that system a little better. But this is fine. The build quality of the Strong is excellent - much better than my other spa - and more than makes up for the circ pump.

There are no drain and fill issues. That's just silly, and aimed at scaring people.

I like my spa. I like the value. The only thing that I thought was close in bang for the buck was the H2O, but that was $2k more. And that dealer went under, so I wonder how easy it would be to get warranty on that one. Not a lot of chance that Costco is going to fold. And even if their suppliers go belly up, Costco has honored the warranty and/or given full refunds on the spas. With Costco you have very little to lose... if the spa is a dog, get it back to the curb and they'll pick it up.

The biggest negative I see with Costco is that you can't try before you buy. That's a real issue, and frankly the biggest issue I see with Costco. If you're looking for something in particular or need specific therapy for a back problem or whatever, you probably want to try before you buy.

[PreservedSwine]

4) These spas are for real DIYers IMO. If all goes well then great but when issues arise you need to be able to troubleshoot them yourself.

Not sure if I understand this one. Please explain what you mean in more detail.

If the problem occurs during the warranty period, you call 1-800-strong, and they send out a guy to fix it for free (and people have posted this process works fine). If you bought locally, you call a local number and they send a guy out to fix it. Seems the same to me. If the problem occurs past the warranty period, you either fix yourself, or pay a repairman. This is also true whether the tub was purchased locally, or 1000 miles away. Everything I have read says the Strong/Evolution tubs are manufactured with industry standard components, so getting parts would be no more or less difficult than a tub purchased locally. Are you claiming that past the warranty period a local shop will send a repairman out for free to help you troubleshoot???

On this very bulletin board (and on the costco reviews), there are many people saying they are very satisfied with the support provided by 1-800-strong, and many people complaining about the support provided by their local spa dealer. Now in all fairness, people are more apt to post complaints on internet BB, but not too many have complained yet about Strong

Yep, there are many service centers that cater to strong spas, all over the country.

Except there aren't.

Here's what will typically happen.

Customer calls Strong Spa with a a complaint.

Strong Spa starts calling every Hot Tub company in the area, and tries to persuade someone to fix their spa. Sometimes a true professional will do it. Sometimes a pool guy with no experience and no clue will do it. Either way, the service guy will typically have none of the proprietary parts, and very few of the parts on that spa. Even a good tech will be looking at a product he rarely works on and is unfamiliar with. No big deal if it's an easy problem to troubleshoot, but some issues aren't so simple.

Most tech's that do this type of service for a fringe supplier don't do it very long. It requires you to purchase a fairly decent inventory of parts, because making (2) trips sucks. The service company may be hesitant to make that type of investment in a place that seems to go through different manufactures regularly, and is then left with a bunch of worthless equipment he'll never sell. And, since the spa's haven't bneen in the wild too long, they won't know what they really need to keep in inventory, or, if what they buy will become a white elephant, as things are changing quickly in the spa circuit-board world.

Compare that to an actual dealer, where a tech pulls up in a truck, familiar with the product, and has all the parts.

I would call Strong's number, and ask for the number of the service center in your area, and just call them. Find out if they're familiar with the product, how long they've been working in the business, and working on Strong with Costco. Ask them what they think of the product so far.

It's hit and miss. Hopefully, you'll be in an area with a quality service center.

At least you do have an 800 number, and many issues don't need a tech visit to solve. But a good, equipped tech is priceless when you need one.

[endorfin]

Swine - throwing a lot of BS out there - eh? Strong has been in business a long time and has an established network. Can you please point us to real customer complaints that align with your views? I doubt it. This is not a fly by night, upstart company and you shouldn't portray them as such.

As a perimeter insulated spa with access panels all around, most diagnostics and repair are very easy. I did have an LED burn out on my Strong Spa. Took me a couple days to get the part from Strong and then 10 minutes to put it in by myself. For a similar problem on another brand spa, Roger suggested that the spa be drained, turned on its side, drill a hole in the bottom and then pick away the foam, and put in the new LED. In the end, that customer decided to just live with their brand new spa with a burned out LED. Too bad they didn't buy a Strong spa.

Roger is also now trying to make it sound like a design flaw because some new Strong owners got a vapor lock on the first fill. This is because Strong, just like Caldera, Sundance and most other manufacturers recommend you fill through the filter return pipe. And in their excitement, many new owners drop the hose in the bottom of the tub and end up with air in the lines. This is not a design flaw, it is standard for the industry.

The apparent reason why repair techs like Roger do not like Strong Spas - most likely because they don't make much money on them. Consider this, if Strong Spas were so bad that they failed all the time... and Strong was scrambling to find repair techs... then wouldn't people like Roger and Swine be happier? But for some reason, they keep coming here and bashing.

[ataDude]

Swine - throwing a lot of BS out there - eh? Strong has been in business a long time and has an established network. Can you please point us to real customer complaints that align with your views? I doubt it. This is not a fly by night, upstart company and you shouldn't portray them as such.

As a perimeter insulated spa with access panels all around, most diagnostics and repair are very easy. I did have an LED burn out on my Strong Spa. Took me a couple days to get the part from Strong and then 10 minutes to put it in by myself. For a similar problem on another brand spa, Roger suggested that the spa be drained, turned on its side, drill a hole in the bottom and then pick away the foam, and put in the new LED. In the end, that customer decided to just live with their brand new spa with a burned out LED. Too bad they didn't buy a Strong spa.

Roger is also now trying to make it sound like a design flaw because some new Strong owners got a vapor lock on the first fill. This is because Strong, just like Caldera, Sundance and most other manufacturers recommend you fill through the filter return pipe. And in their excitement, many new owners drop the hose in the bottom of the tub and end up with air in the lines. This is not a design flaw, it is standard for the industry.

The apparent reason why repair techs like Roger do not like Strong Spas - most likely because they don't make much money on them. Consider this, if Strong Spas were so bad that they failed all the time... and Strong was scrambling to find repair techs... then wouldn't people like Roger and Swine be happier? But for some reason, they keep coming here and bashing.

I agree with endorfin. Nice spa, no problems. However, unlike another poster said, there are no proprietary parts except for the shell and the cabinet... same as other manufacturers. All other working parts are off-the-shelf... like the Balboa box and control panel, the Waterway jets, the AO Smith motors, etc.

And, like endorfin, I love the plastic construction in the cabinet. It appears to be easy to work on (if needed) and seems to be relatively tight... at least for my use in Texas.

And, if you don't like it for ANY reason at ANY time, give it back to Costco for the cost of putting it on their dock. That is not matched anywhere as far as I know.

.

[hot_water]

You are as likely to get a good tech or a poor one from Strong as you are from the local dealer, just like you might get a good mechanic or a poor one at a local auto repair place. The difference is that if you buy from a dealer and their tech is poor or does shoddy work, you're stuck. If you are dealing with Strong you call the 800 number and they'll send someone else. If the problem remains unresolved, you call Costco customer service and now you have the second largest retailer in the country advocating for you. With the unlimited return policy, seems to me that Strong will be doing what it takes to make you a happy tubber. Good luck getting that level of attention from the dealer. As I noted above, the local high end spa dealer here won't even sell you parts.

Please note that there are NO cases being reported of Strong failing to resolve a problem. None. So all the hypothetical arguments about the alleged advantage of dealers are just that... hypothetical.

Unless a complete bozo, anyone calling themselves a spa tech should be able to repair a Strong. There is nothing unusual in there. Access is excellent. The access panels don't even require you to remove screws. And all the standard parts are available for much less than the cost of proprietary parts from many of the specialty high end spa dealers. Go price a Hot Spring titanium heater and compare that to what you can buy a Balboa titanium heater for online.

With Costco/Strong, what you REALLY don't get are commission sales people, you don't get a beautifully staged showroom, and you don't get the opportunity to buy chemicals at inflated prices. Significantly, you don't get to try the spa out before you buy. You also aren't paying for those things. Everyone is free to spend their money as they see fit, but I think it's pretty funny that we're being told that dealers offer an advantage in service when there are no complaints about Strong's customer support. It's also funny that we're told that that he design is poor... with no specifics. Is it the fanciest? No. It's also 50% or less of the price of the fanciest spas.

My guests don't really care that it's not a dealer spa. It works fine and I sleep better knowing that it's backed with the unlimited Costco return policy. And I have a couple grand, maybe 3, to spend on something else. Any wonder that the dealers spend so much time talking down these products?

[Roger]

Boy,,,the way these tubs are defended you would think the supposed owners here are all salespeople for Strong or Costco. My comments were absolutly the truth!! I have seen 5 Strong tubs to date all purchased through Costco MPLS/ST. Paul One owned by a very close friend. I have had the oppertunity to take a very close look at them and compare them to probably 40-50 other brands that I have worked on in my over 20 year plumbing career. Believe it or not if you would just read my POST!!! There was no bashing in it! They are EXACTLY, exactly what they are. An inexpensive option to a high quality more expensive tub. Why everyone thinks that's an insult is behond me unless, they are trying to justify a tub that is, well, yep, OK and nothing more.

Sit in an 8000 dollar Dimension One Nautilis and then in a 4000 dollar Strong from Costco. If you don't notice a difference in both fit and finish and feel then yep, swirling hot water is fine for you! But it's not fine for everyone! And it's not fine for me. Yes I have soaked in one. It may not be underpowered and noisy to you owners but hey, its OK if I find it noisy and underpowered, remember this is America and we all don't have to be alike! Not to mention there is NO long standing reputation of longevity and support from Costco. Quite the opposite actualy.

[PreservedSwine]

Swine - throwing a lot of BS out there - eh? Strong has been in business a long time and has an established network. Can you please point us to real customer complaints that align with your views? I doubt it. This is not a fly by night, upstart company and you shouldn't portray them as such.

I'm sorry you see it that way.

In what way did I bash the Master Spa's, or their quality (or even mention it)? What did I type that you perceived as "BS?"

Perhaps it's because I know how the service industry operates, and after several experiences, have had to turn down several manufactures attempts at finding a service agent for their "National" product.

If there isn't a store with in-house service, where is that service coming from? Do you think there are spa-only service centers in every city?

I don't think what I posted was at all inflammatory, it was simply a real behind the scenes scenario at what commonly happens. How do I know this? Because my company has been around since 1998, and I've been on the receiving end of multiple manufactures that sold a product in our service area, with no way to service it. I've serviced Home Depot, Lowes, and Costco spas, as their warranty agent, over the years. I've been through it, and have no qualms about being honest, whether it be interpreted as "negative," or "positive." I'm just trying to be frank.

I don't see how asking for the service agents phone number is "negative." I would consider it prudent.

[arf1410]

One thing that Roger and a few others don't seem to want to acknowledge is that a store like Costco has the ability to sell virtually any product for substantially less than a "mom and pop" retailer, which I think most spa dealers are. Without even getting into how a $4000 evolution spa compares to a $8000 Jacuzzi, Costco has the ability to sell a generic product which they buy at wholesale for $3800, for $4100. A mom and pop retailer would have to price that much higher to stay in business. Just not sure why a Spa dealer would be any different. If, hypothetically they were to sell Evolution spas, I don't think they could sell anywhere near the costco price point, even if they paid the same wholesale cost. The wholesale cost of spa is a tightly guarded secret. I think one wholesale price list for one brand was briefly posted on this forum last year, but was taken down (by moderators?) but I thought it showed the whole sale price at about 1/3 of retail, thus the POTENTIAL for a warehouse to to substantially undercut a spa dealer in price for an equivalent product. I am not claiming I know for certain if Evolution is that product or not, but to deny it can by done is not reasonable.

[Roger]

One thing that Roger and a few others don't seem to want to acknowledge is that a store like Costco has the ability to sell virtually any product for substantially less than a "mom and pop" retailer, which I think most spa dealers are. Without even getting into how a $4000 evolution spa compares to a $8000 Jacuzzi, Costco has the ability to sell a generic product which they buy at wholesale for $3800, for $4100. A mom and pop retailer would have to price that much higher to stay in business. Just not sure why a Spa dealer would be any different. If, hypothetically they were to sell Evolution spas, I don't think they could sell anywhere near the costco price point, even if they paid the same wholesale cost. The wholesale cost of spa is a tightly guarded secret. I think one wholesale price list for one brand was briefly posted on this forum last year, but was taken down (by moderators?) but I thought it showed the whole sale price at about 1/3 of retail, thus the POTENTIAL for a warehouse to to substantially undercut a spa dealer in price for an equivalent product. I am not claiming I know for certain if Evolution is that product or not, but to deny it can by done is not reasonable.

So your saying that there is a 300 dollar mark up on there tubs and you know this how? I will give you my guess, Costco buys from Strong for 2500.

You are right Costco or any box store has the ability to sell cheaper than ma and pa. The one thing you or any of you box store officianados refuse to acknowledge is the fact that it is not the same product.

[hot_water]

Well, that explains why there are so many complaints from Strong owners who have had trouble geting their spas serviced.

Oh wait... there aren't any complaints.

Then there's Roger, Mr. Credibility, who read here on this forum from real spa owners who,in the spirit of giving honest evaluations, commented that the jets aren't the strongest... so he jumps on that. Another spa owner introduces an airlock (common issue with all spas and easily rectified) and Roger blows that into some sort of plumbing design flaw.

In a different thread, another industry expert claimed that spas were too complex for a mass retailer like Costco to do properly. Except that a spa is really a pretty dirt-simple machine. Nevermind the fact that Costco never sees the spa -- they just take the online order. It's built, tested, packed and shipped direct by the manufacturer, who handles all the customer service and arranges any needed repairs. And who, by the way, sells spas through his own dealer network as well.

The Strong is a pretty good spa. Not the fanciest, quietest or most powerful. It's also not $8k or $10k or $12k. It's well made, has a great cabinet that compares well with ANY spa, and dollar per feature, for many people it's the best value out there. If the whole thing falls apart, or if you get it and find it disappointing for any reason, Costco will smile and take it back for a full refund. Today, tomorrow or ten years from now. Good luck getting a dealer to do that on an $8k, $10k or $12k spa. I can afford any spa, but would buy a Strong again simply because it does what I want it to do, and I hate paying more (for anything)than is necessary.

[hot_water]

Oh by the way...

Costco President Jim Senegal has stated that Costco markups on their products don't exceed 14%. For many items, it's much less. if you study their annual report, you will see that Costco net earnings from operations essentially break even. They make more or less ALL of their profit on membership fees. Read it for yourself... the annual filings are all available online.

Traditional retailers have to cover all their expenses, overhead and so forth AND their profit through sales revenue. Costco has no showroom, no commission sales people, and they sell the spas with the aim of breaking even on sales. The cost of returns is borne by the manufacturers, and the promotions and sales are also absorbed by the manufacturers. Not just spas, but everything.

Costco is actually not too popular with Wall Street analysts, who think that they could easily increase their earnings per share if they increased their margins. But Senegal and the Costco board prefers to stick to the successful Costco business model. It's worked for them, it works for the members. It hasn't always worked for the manufacturers, but judging from the players that place their stuff in Costco warehouses, it's working for many. Little bitty outfits like Sony, Panasonic, Dyson, Hewlett-Packard, Canon, Nikon, etc. etc. etc.

Strong seems to be happy... they're in the warehouses now for what, the third year? And adding models. Seems like they must be doing ok.

[arf1410]

So your saying that there is a 300 dollar mark up on there tubs and you know this how? I will give you my guess, Costco buys from Strong for 2500.

Costco CEO Jim Senigal publicly stated in 2009 that the MAXIMUM mark-up on any product is 15%, and it is widely reported in business publications that Costco (and Sam's club) have an average mark-up of about 5%. So you are correct, I do not know for a fact that the 8% mark-up I proposed in my example is correct, but I have presented data to show it is a heck of a lot close than the 60% markup you have suggested. You can verify the percentages from numerous reputable sources on line.

You are are in the industry - what is the typical wholesale/retail spread at a spa dealer?

[hot_water]

duplicate post deleted.

[endorfin]

Roger, I'm pretty sure most of us who are positive about Strong Spas are actually owners. We offer our opinions because we like the product and don't believe other potential owners should shy away based on misinformation. As far as I can tell, all of those who are critical (like you), are not owners. The question is why are you so critical when you haven't wet tested one and haven't repaired one? Although I'm glad to hear your count of "seen Strong spas" is increasing with every post - one in January, then three now five. So they must be selling very well.

By the way, I find it hard to believe that Costco is taking 40% gross profit margin on these spas when their gross profit margin for all sales is 12.39%. The product is drop shipped with no inventory and no carrying cost. You are assuming a retail / dealer model for a "buying member club".

Swine, I actually agree with some of your post. Before I purchased my spa, I called the factory and spoke to people about support - as I did with most brands I considered purchasing. The part of your post i consider to be BS - it seemed to me you were taking experiences with other manufacturers and attributing these generalizations to Strong. For example, you say when you call Strong with a complaint, then they frantically call everyone in the area to find somebody to help. This is not consistent with the experience that I, and other owners have had. There may be some places where Strong doesn't have as deep of coverage, but this is true for all manufacturers.

[walleye]

I have done lots of research and reading about Evolution Spa's in the last month. Although I have found some unhappy owners, the over all reports show very happy owners. I have found just as many unhappy owners of high dollar tubs such as Hot Springs and Sundance and so on. As far as customer support, Chad (who is still there by the way) is likely among the best in responding to customers in the industry. Many people have made that statement on many different online locations. Evolution has been at Costco long enough to show they are not like the rest. These tubs by Strong are decent tubs. Roger obviously has a problem with them which makes me void out just about any comment he makes. It is obvious he will bash them no matter what and that makes it hard to put any value on his posts. Sorry, but that has become obvious. Yes it may be lacking in a few areas but in my final analysis, the savings are too much to ignore. It is hard for dealers and people who spent way more to admit this fact. That is OK as the high dollar hot tubs need people to buy them as well. I will make you a deal, don't hammer me because I might buy an Evolution tub for a few grand less, and I won't hammer you for what I consider spending too much. Don't base Evolution (Strong) along with past failures. That is just bogus. Do the research, look at owners and face the facts. Fact is from what I have learned, Evolution makes a good tub for the money and has great customer support. And no I don't work for them and no I don't own one. Yet.