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arf1410

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Everything posted by arf1410

  1. You lost me on this one. Why would one go to a store, for any product, for manufacturer's warranty. , One goes to the manufacturer! And should the manufacturer go belly up, Costco can and will make you whole regarding warranty!
  2. A product warranty is a cost for the manufacturer. It costs a manufacturer >50% more to provide a 3 year warranty than a 2 year warranty. So if it is trying to keep the costs down, a shorter warranty will be a component. Don't assume, without evidence, that there is any physical difference in 2 products, from the same manufacturer, based on differing warranty length.
  3. 7 years in with an Evolution tub, from Costco. Replaced the cover 6 months ago... not desperate, but was getting heavy, meaning it was absorbing water. A few months ago, one of the pumps started having a slow leak at the "wet end seal" ... Went back and forth about calling a pro, trying to change it myself, or just not worrying about it until it got worse... A pro wanted 500-600$ to fix... ended up ordering the part from Spa Depot... was told it was likely the single most popular spa pump used... and 7-10 years is the typical life... so ended up replacing it myself for < $300, ~ 4 hours, and only one skinned knuckle. One of the things that attracted me to Evolution (by Strong) was, at least in 2011, they used just industry standard parts, as opposed to Jacuzzi(?) and possibly some others that used proprietary parts that are harder to source, and more expensive to replace. I also had the spa wired in such a way that I could easily attach an energy meter if I wanted to, but never did. I would GUESS the spa uses $40-$50 worth of electricity in the winter, and too little to notice in the summer. Keep in mind the Puget Sound has mild winters, and cheap electricity. I have seen no strong evidence that any brand of spas will use substantially more or less electricity than others. Much of the heat is likely lost thru the cover, anyway. So in the end, I am happy with the brand, and the Costco purchasing experience, in particular for someone who is willing to handle some of the installation tasks on there own... or in my case, via independent paid experts, Costco of course did not coordinate any of that other than basic delivery.
  4. Thanks Dave and Casteltonia. Before draining the tub, I did try to buy a 2" screw on cap to close off the line, however Home Depot did not sell one. I did end up calling Strong this morning, and I 've called a few times over the years, and tend to get fairly knowledgeable folks on the phone. The basically confirmed what you stated about those 1/2" lines, that they were low pressure suction, and didn't see a problem at all with a lower PSI rated replacement. And you were spot on about some excess phone sprayed on, at the bottom of the tub, to "tack down" some of the lines. I considered removing it, but for the line in question, I still did not see any excess length that it would free up. And also thanks for not calling Strong a low quality junk tub, like some folks on the forum liked to do a few years ago, when I was last here.
  5. I bought the Evolution line of a Strong tub at Costco, 7 years ago. Was working fine until last month, when I noticed a leak. It appeared to be at the wet end seal, of the #1 pump... which also seemed to be noisier, upon closer listening, with cabinet opened up. Pump was a 4 Hp Executive by Waterway. After speaking with several local spa repair folks, they stated that pump failure at 7 years was not that unusual, and suggested $450 for the pump, + ~$150 to install. found what I think is the identical pump / perfect replacement at SpaDepot, which they had in stock, as they stated this might be the single most common spa pump used... got it for $279... and decided to install myself. Mostly uneventful, with two minor stumbling blocks: /1/ there are 2 x 1/2" lines coming out of the front of the wet end, connected by a by a barbed fitting, that I think are to circulate to prevent freezing, among other things... I could not for the life of me get those lines off the barbed fitting, so I had to cut them. One of the lines was plently long, so loosing 1" was a non issue. The other line, the was no extra length, so I had to splice in an additional length. I found more line at home depot, though after reviewing the specs, it is rated at 45 psi. The OEM line was rated at 55 psi. Is this a big problem? What is the pressure coming out of the front end of those pumps? /2/ the spa used gate valves, rather than ball valves, and one of the gate valves did not 100% stop the water flow, so I had to drain the tub. I'm told ball valves are better. Do most spas use ball valves?
  6. My Spa is about 3 years old. I've got two filters, which I rotate every time I change the water, which is about every other month. I clean the filters with a TSP solution. They seem to look fine. Can I keep doing this indefinitely until the filters physically start falling apart? If not, how can I tell when they need to be replaced? Thanks
  7. I started using some softball sized foam like "scum absorber" balls that seem to be doing a great job reducing, or even eliminating, the scum at my waterline. Any idea if those things can be washed, and if so, how, or are they considered disposable?
  8. Maybe I'm missing something, but don't really see any releavance in that link posted above to changing ones' mind on buying a hot tub...
  9. Why in the world would a repairman agree to to business with Strong if he would only get paid $80 for a job that he would normally charge $300+ for? Also, I would think to some extent, the job of Spa repairing (at least of the electronic components) has gone the way of most other electronic repairs...even of high end equipment, they are probably not doing much true, high skill repairs anymore...just remove and replace the broken component, rather than actually fix it.
  10. Have a bit of a problem with 2 of your comments: "/1/ Reading arf's comments about feeling no obligation to pay the repairman is typical of consumer attitude, which is why it is the repairman's responsibility to make perfectly clear to the consumer what warranty does and does not cover. /2/ The only way the repairman is going to get $220 out of Strong is to claim on an invoice to have repaired a significant leak - commit a fraudulent act." /1/ since my contractual relationship is with Strong, I'm not necessarily opposed to paying Strong, or possibly even the repair man if they request it /2/ I don't know how you (or me) could possibly know for certain what type of contract or obiligation is between Strong and Mr. Repairman. As Strong is a large company, and I live in a major metro area, it would seem likely they had some sort of arrangement with a repair man here, as opposed to just trying to find someone when I called a month ago. Though I have zero experience with this industry, I've never before heard of a repairman who didn't have a set minimum truck or trip charge. UNlike a repairman who is servicing a product his store sells, and has no choice, why in the world a repairman would agree to a job (or even doing any business for Strong) without a minimum payment is just beyond me. I can't imagine all repairmen are that stupid?
  11. So, in Rogers opinion, in this case the consumer (me) came out ahead dealing with 1-800- strong than if I had purchased from a local dealer...
  12. If, hypothetically I had purchased the spa at a small spa dealer, how does this scenario play out differently?
  13. If I wasn't so concerned about warranty expiration any day I would have indeed spent more time troubleshooting.... But my work schedule had been so busy at that time it would have been at least a week before I had time to do that.
  14. Arches - you didn't read the thread cloasely - the very first post I stated I pulled off all (8) of the side panels and looked for signs of leaks, and saw not one drop of water inside the cabinet. The very first thing I did though was turn off the electricity. From a couple years reading this forum,I was fearful of doing damage by running the pumps dry. My other reason for almost immediately calling Strong was I knew I bought the tub roughly 2 years ago, and I didn't want to spend 2 weeks troubleshooting, the be told my warranty expired last week. Certainly one could fault Strong for not spending more time on the phone helping me troubleshoot, so maybe this could have been solved over the tele, and you could claim an experienced "ma and pa" dealer would have that extra insite and experience to look for this sort of "leak" The other thing I have noticed from reading this forum for a couple of years, is that I think the majority of posters are people in the industry, not spa owners. To an owner, my experience is good customer severice. To people on the "inside". this type of customer service could be expensive, and set up unreasonable customer expectations, therefore, is bad While I do not think they will, I do think it would would reasonable for Strong to ask me for reimbursement, whether they will or not, I guess too early to say. I think it is implausable that Strong wouldn't pay the serviceman for him doing what Strong told him to do. So from a spa owner perspective, if Strong does not bill me, they have gone above and beyond reasonable expectations. Maybe that would be unique in teh spa industry, but among places I do business at, Nordstroms does that, REI does that, Costco does that...a local tire shop did a free flat repair for my wife last week and not the shop she bought the tires at...
  15. I can understand the concept of really low warranty reimbursement rates to service products you sell. As part of an agreement to sell the product, you probably had to sign a contract to provide warranty service at X$ per hour. You had no choice but to accept low rates. But in Strong's case, to get people who don't sell your product to provide service, there would be no incentive for them to do it unless they were getting paid enough money for them to make a profit on the work. Though I don't know the exact employment status (independent contractor? direct employee?) of my repairman, when I returned the call I got to a spa dealer "press 1 for dales, 2 for service.."
  16. I never once said I shouldn't pay, or that I wouldn't. If Strong asks me to pay, I likely would, but I'm not going to call them up, apologize, and ask where to send a check. My "contract" is with Strong, not the repairman. I have no idea how much the repairman may actually get paid. While that $255 may have indeed been fair market price, the reimbursement rates for warrantee work might be somewhat less, as you suggest. I would guess this sort of thing is a fairly rare occurence, so if a major manufacturer decided to eat the cost themselves every time it happened, I don't think they would go out of business. To help me better understand your perspective Apollo, are you just a spa owner, or do you have a financial interest in the spa business?
  17. /1/ A far as what happened to cause the water to disappear, I have now verified that it could have happened exactly as my son and the repairman stated. If the boys left the pop up fountain in the on position (mechanical rotating switch), but turned the pump (#1) jet off (electronic button) , the fountains retract and the boys think everything if off. Pump #1, in low speed mode, is alsothe circulation pump, which runs 2 hours, twice a day. when I turn the fountains on low, with the lid closed, water does indeed flow out of the tub at a modest rate. To guess at a number, say 1 gallon every 5 minutes = 12 gallons an hour x 4 hours a day x4 days = 200 gallons of water gone, in my plausable "back of the napkin" math. so the water disappearance can indeed be explained by the known facts and observations. /2/ So I think most people (maybe not PS) would agree that the repairman should not get caught in the middle, he desires to get paid...but by whom. I would claim there is a "contract" (oral, or written) between me and Strong, and also a contract between Strong and teh repairman. It was Strong that "hired" the repairman to come to my house. Strong almost certainly owes the repairman $$$ for the service call, though admittedly, I have not read the contract between Strong and repairman. There is no contractual relationship between me and the repairman, so the repair has no business asking me for anything. Strong may chose to "subrogate" the claim...that is ask me to reimburse Strong for their damages. Doubt they would, but I don't know for sure. /3/ If this is not an example of good customer service from a consumer's persepectice, what could Strong have done to provide better service?
  18. So PS, I think we might just have to agree to disagree on whether the repair man deserves to get paid for the service call. I'm fairly sure there are some professional spa repair men on this board, and I'm curious if they would expect to get paid if they made a service call, and determined nothing was actually broken. As far as how the water disappeared ...inside the cabinet was bone dry...so if it wasn't the fountains getting water outside teh spa in some fashion, what else do you think might have cuased the water to disappear? I'm actually tempted to close the cover with the fountains on, and watching to see what happens!
  19. I'm not completely clear either how it happened...but it was not a waterfall that was left on, but a fountain, that when on, it arcs from edge, up about 2 feet above water level, and "lands" in roughly the middle of the spa. While my son and his friends aren't bad kids, with a couple 15 year old boys, I guess it is in the realm of possibilty they rotated / re-airmed the fountain so the water landed outside the spa?
  20. Spa Guru ...You may be correct, that Strong might bill me...but at the momment, it has not happened. If, Hypothetically, Strong does not charge me, by your own words, you would have to admint Strong has gone above and beyond the support of most manufacturers.
  21. Again, I don't agree with preserved swine's comment :"... other than someone billing a manufacturer $250 for nothing" It was perfectly legitimate for the repairman to bill Strong for sending someone to my house and diagnosing a problem. I would certainly think Strong should (and would) reimburse the repairman for the service provided, not for "doing nothing" as you imply. I've paid car repairmen for their time to try and diagnosis a problem, and not being able to find one. Suppose I bought a car under warranty back to the dealership because all off a sudden the car was handling very poorly, and I thought there was a suspension problem. They spend time (say an hour) looking for a problem, and it turns out it was just low air pressure in the tires. Does the dealership charge me, or not? The answer to question helps define the quality of customer support. If, hypothetically, Strong does not send me a bill, then to me, this case is an example of Strong providing excellent customer care, though I'm guessing you two may disagree. From a practical point of view, I don't think they will try to bill me, as this is probably an unusual case, and they are a good sized company that probably does not even have a system in place to bill customers for labor charges.
  22. I was looking for the copy of the receipt, but couldn't find it. It was mostly a troubleshooting charge. Full up tub with water. Remove all side panels, and look for leaks. He was here a while. Maybe $90 truck charge plus $90 per hour x 1.5 hours + 10% tax.... And there you are. Seattle is expensive - appliance guys are typically 129-149 just to come to your house and diagnos problem. And preserved swine - if, hypothetically some one comes after me for payment next month, then I will be dissatisfied. But until then, I'm happy. After I had the spa 2 months, a pillow tore off. Those are specifically excluded from warranty but strong replaced it for free anyway, including free shipping. I have zero complaints on service support our warranty.
  23. I was looking for the copy of the receipt, but couldn't find it. It was mostly a troubleshooting charge. Full up tub with water. Remove all side panels, and look for leaks. He was here a while. Maybe $90 truck charge plus $90 per hour x 1.5 hours + 10% tax.... And there you are. Seattle is expensive - appliance guys are typically 129-149 just to come to your house and diagnos problem. And preserved swine - if, hypothetically some one comes after me for payment next month, then I will be dissatisfied. But until then, I'm happy. After I had the spa 2 months, a pillow tore off. Those are specifically excluded from warranty but strong replaced it for free anyway, including free shipping. I have zero complaints on service support our warranty.
  24. Well, at about 22 months old, I go out to my Evolution Spa and find 1/2 (or more) of the water gone...I open up the cabinets...see no sign of water or a leak...but I do know in the 3-4 days since I last used it, lots of water is missing. Was all ready to come back to this forum with foot in mouth as several had assured me it would be leak prone, with a short warranty, and difficultly getting service. I power down...call 1-800-Strong...tell them what happened ...and they said full parts and labor warranty for 2 years...they took my tele, and said a techynician would be in touch. About 4 hours later, a technician from a local spa dealer called to schedule an appointment...and came to my house a few days later. Turns out there was not a leak at all. My teenage son and friends closed the cover with the fountains still on, and managed to spray / deflect the water off the inside of the cover and onto the ground. He said there was still enough water in the spa so that pumps were not running dry, so no concern they were damaged. He left me a copy of the receipt showing the diagnostics he did, and an amount of ~$255, which he said would be covered directly by Strong...nothing for me to pay. So bottom line, I am satisfied, and don't see how the warranty service coverage and process would have been any different if I had purchased the spa at the dealer 5 miles away.
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