spawn Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 Well I am beginning to think that maybe you guys are right about SpaTechSince1979 and the seemlingly bogus website. I have been looking into hot tubs info online for a long time and somehow never ran across that site. Then one day SpaTechSince1979 shows up in the forum and disses on various spa manufacturers while singing the praises of Master and recommends that a naive prospective spa buyer go to the HottubBrokers.com site. As others noted I saw extremely low prices listed for all manufacturers but Master, which had extremely high prices. Also the ratings - which gave no listing of criteria - were consistently favorable to Master. Posters here who are very familiar with the spa industry smelled a rat and called scam. I gave SpaTechSince1979 the the benefit of the doubt and hoped to buy a quality spa at a very low price but he has been lying low. Please SpaTechSince1979, say it ain't so! Does anyone have any ideas why someone would create a site like this if the information is not true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Jackson Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Well I am beginning to think that maybe you guys are right about SpaTechSince1979 and the seemlingly bogus website. I have been looking into hot tubs info online for a long time and somehow never ran across that site. Then one day SpaTechSince1979 shows up in the forum and disses on various spa manufacturers while singing the praises of Master and recommends that a naive prospective spa buyer go to the HottubBrokers.com site. As others noted I saw extremely low prices listed for all manufacturers but Master, which had extremely high prices. Also the ratings - which gave no listing of criteria - were consistently favorable to Master. Posters here who are very familiar with the spa industry smelled a rat and called scam. I gave SpaTechSince1979 the the benefit of the doubt and hoped to buy a quality spa at a very low price but he has been lying low. Please SpaTechSince1979, say it ain't so! Does anyone have any ideas why someone would create a site like this if the information is not true? I think you meant hottubbroker with no s. A whois on the url says that it is registered to Tim Baele . A google search on Tim Baele seems to indicate he is a sales manager at Master Spas. It is a bit embarrassing to be in the industry when this happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE SPA GUY Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 as the plot thickens......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Well I am beginning to think that maybe you guys are right about SpaTechSince1979 and the seemlingly bogus website. I have been looking into hot tubs info online for a long time and somehow never ran across that site. Then one day SpaTechSince1979 shows up in the forum and disses on various spa manufacturers while singing the praises of Master and recommends that a naive prospective spa buyer go to the HottubBrokers.com site. As others noted I saw extremely low prices listed for all manufacturers but Master, which had extremely high prices. Also the ratings - which gave no listing of criteria - were consistently favorable to Master. Posters here who are very familiar with the spa industry smelled a rat and called scam. I gave SpaTechSince1979 the the benefit of the doubt and hoped to buy a quality spa at a very low price but he has been lying low. Please SpaTechSince1979, say it ain't so! Does anyone have any ideas why someone would create a site like this if the information is not true? I think you meant hottubbroker with no s. A whois on the url says that it is registered to Tim Baele . A google search on Tim Baele seems to indicate he is a sales manager at Master Spas. It is a bit embarrassing to be in the industry when this happens. Master's business practices certainly don't help the overall image of the spa industry. The people who should be embarrassed are Master Corporate but since their aim is to be deceitful in the first place with their traveling sales circus and that website of lies they certainly won't feel any shame over it. The others who should be ashamed by this are dealers who carry Master knowing they're working relationship is with a company who will sink to any depth to make a sale. Then again some of those who sign up with Master by defintion of choosing them may be the type that will turn a blind eye to such low handed sales tactics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerimiahR Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 LOL @ HotTubBroker.com They show Hot Spring Spas as "2nd" on their Ratings chart, and their pricing for the models is ridiculously low (not real prices). Conveniently, Master Spas is listed as #1 and is in BOLD font. At the bottom it basically says the ratings were compiled from talking to people, and that they can change, and a disclaimer telling you to do your own research. The order in which they list "Resource" links is kinda odd too: Master SpasHot tub and spa ratings Poolandspashow.com www.h2xswimspa.com Hydro Spa Down East Spas Gazebo Works Too, Inc. Poolandspa.com Microban Epinoins.com Spasearch.com Hottub101.com Sundance Spas Caldera Spas Hot Spring Portable Spas Why is Master Spa at the top, and the other reputable manufacturers aren't listed until the very bottom? Even the "Epinions" website is listed higher up. whois.domaintools.com says that "Tim Baele" owns the hottubbroker.com domain, as well as "14 other domains" for what it's worth. Could mean next to nothing, considering it's possible that there's more than one Tim Baele out there. However, I did notice that there's a link from the "Buying Tips" page that goes to Poolandspashow.com which lists when this traveling sales group will be selling Master Spas. Conveniently, poolandspashow.com is registered to "Domains by Proxy, Inc." Google led me to "Tim Baele" over @ Twitter, who runs the MasterSpas Twitter page. http://twitter.com/masterspas The internet is a dangerous place my friends. You never know who you're talking to, or whether they be legit or scam, or what their intentions are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 But there are hundreds of Master Spa dealers who don't know or care about that web site of Master Spa lies or the traveling shows. All they do is sell tubs to thousands of people with slick sales tactics and deception. They never visit a spa forum and never will. It's to bad web browsing is not mandatory before purchasing a spa. Sure, listen to the dealer and get a feel, but all consumers should always get a second or even third opinion before jumping into a possibly (most likely) bad purchase that tarnishes the industry. Most consumers are not that savy. Look at Costco, same thing with thousands of buyers but that return policy sure makes it a better value. And no deceptive sales practices. You get exactly what you pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East TX Spa Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Wow! They sure got these folks riled up with their advertising tactics: 1 800 SPA SALE and SignPostersUSA blighted Orange County, California and the city of Long Beach this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spawn Posted July 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Well I am beginning to think that maybe you guys are right about SpaTechSince1979 and the seemlingly bogus website. I have been looking into hot tubs info online for a long time and somehow never ran across that site. Then one day SpaTechSince1979 shows up in the forum and disses on various spa manufacturers while singing the praises of Master and recommends that a naive prospective spa buyer go to the HottubBrokers.com site. As others noted I saw extremely low prices listed for all manufacturers but Master, which had extremely high prices. Also the ratings - which gave no listing of criteria - were consistently favorable to Master. Posters here who are very familiar with the spa industry smelled a rat and called scam. I gave SpaTechSince1979 the the benefit of the doubt and hoped to buy a quality spa at a very low price but he has been lying low. Please SpaTechSince1979, say it ain't so! Does anyone have any ideas why someone would create a site like this if the information is not true? I think you meant hottubbroker with no s. A whois on the url says that it is registered to Tim Baele . A google search on Tim Baele seems to indicate he is a sales manager at Master Spas. It is a bit embarrassing to be in the industry when this happens. You are correct Greg Jackson, there is no "s". If this is true it is unbeleivably deceptive. They present themselves as brokers who "buy direct from the manufacturers" and who "will help you save 50% from what you would pay buying directly from a store". They do not mention any affiliation with Master Spas suggesting that they will work to get a good deal on a spa from any of the referenced manufacturers when in reality they will steer buyers to purchase Master Spas. Pity the shopper that ends up in their clutches. "Sorry that we can't get your local Sundance dealer to come down more on that Optima - $10,500 is crazy for that spa. But the great news is we can get you a deal on an outstanding spa from our top rated manufactuer, Master Spas. The LSX 850 usually sells for about $14,000 but we can get it for you for about the price of the Optima. This is your lucky day but you really have to move fast on this, they said the price was only good if you paid half today. Got your credit card handy?". I am starting to understand why so many respected posters on this forum have such a low opinion of Master Spas. Hmmm... I wonder if SpaTechSince1979 is good ol' Tim Beale? Probably not just another of Master's representatives. Do I have a misunderstanding of what is happening here? If so, I sincerely apologize - please enlighten me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spawn Posted July 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 LOL @ HotTubBroker.com They show Hot Spring Spas as "2nd" on their Ratings chart, and their pricing for the models is ridiculously low (not real prices). Conveniently, Master Spas is listed as #1 and is in BOLD font. At the bottom it basically says the ratings were compiled from talking to people, and that they can change, and a disclaimer telling you to do your own research. The order in which they list "Resource" links is kinda odd too: Master SpasHot tub and spa ratings Poolandspashow.com www.h2xswimspa.com Hydro Spa Down East Spas Gazebo Works Too, Inc. Poolandspa.com Microban Epinoins.com Spasearch.com Hottub101.com Sundance Spas Caldera Spas Hot Spring Portable Spas Why is Master Spa at the top, and the other reputable manufacturers aren't listed until the very bottom? Even the "Epinions" website is listed higher up. whois.domaintools.com says that "Tim Baele" owns the hottubbroker.com domain, as well as "14 other domains" for what it's worth. Could mean next to nothing, considering it's possible that there's more than one Tim Baele out there. However, I did notice that there's a link from the "Buying Tips" page that goes to Poolandspashow.com which lists when this traveling sales group will be selling Master Spas. Conveniently, poolandspashow.com is registered to "Domains by Proxy, Inc." Google led me to "Tim Baele" over @ Twitter, who runs the MasterSpas Twitter page. http://twitter.com/masterspas The internet is a dangerous place my friends. You never know who you're talking to, or whether they be legit or scam, or what their intentions are. JerimiahR - I get the impression from this website that I can pruchase HotSprings tubs through them. Are you okay with that? Will you sell me a Hot spring spa for a similare price that it appear that I cna get from them. Really - no need to answer that question - I think I see how this works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerimiahR Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 JerimiahR - I get the impression from this website that I can pruchase HotSprings tubs through them. Are you okay with that? Will you sell me a Hot spring spa for a similare price that it appear that I cna get from them. Really - no need to answer that question - I think I see how this works. So far as new Hot Spring Spas are concerned, the manufacturer only sells through their approved dealers. So unless someone involved with this website is an authorized Hot Spring dealer, you won't be able to buy a "new" spa from them. There's far too many scams out there for a dealer to risk selling a spa out of town (let alone out of state!). Plus, even if you buy from a dealer out of state, do you really expect them to drive out to your home any time you have a problem? I doubt it. This is the inherent problem with buying ANYTHING on the internet (let alone large appliances like a 600 to 1,000lb hot tub). It's not like you can just mail it back for repair. Buy Local - Buy Reputable - It prevents MUCH heartache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hottubdan Posted July 22, 2010 Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 But there are hundreds of Master Spa dealers who don't know or care about that web site of Master Spa lies or the traveling shows. All they do is sell tubs to thousands of people with slick sales tactics and deception. They never visit a spa forum and never will. It's to bad web browsing is not mandatory before purchasing a spa. Sure, listen to the dealer and get a feel, but all consumers should always get a second or even third opinion before jumping into a possibly (most likely) bad purchase that tarnishes the industry. Most consumers are not that savy. Look at Costco, same thing with thousands of buyers but that return policy sure makes it a better value. And no deceptive sales practices. You get exactly what you pay for. Are there really hundreds of Master Spa dealers? Hard to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hottubdan Posted July 22, 2010 Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 Wow! They sure got these folks riled up with their advertising tactics: 1 800 SPA SALE and SignPostersUSA blighted Orange County, California and the city of Long Beach this weekend. Term, That is amusing. How did you stumble on that? Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Jackson Posted July 22, 2010 Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 LOL @ HotTubBroker.com They show Hot Spring Spas as "2nd" on their Ratings chart, and their pricing for the models is ridiculously low (not real prices). Conveniently, Master Spas is listed as #1 and is in BOLD font. At the bottom it basically says the ratings were compiled from talking to people, and that they can change, and a disclaimer telling you to do your own research. The order in which they list "Resource" links is kinda odd too: Master SpasHot tub and spa ratings Poolandspashow.com www.h2xswimspa.com Hydro Spa Down East Spas Gazebo Works Too, Inc. Poolandspa.com Microban Epinoins.com Spasearch.com Hottub101.com Sundance Spas Caldera Spas Hot Spring Portable Spas Why is Master Spa at the top, and the other reputable manufacturers aren't listed until the very bottom? Even the "Epinions" website is listed higher up. whois.domaintools.com says that "Tim Baele" owns the hottubbroker.com domain, as well as "14 other domains" for what it's worth. Could mean next to nothing, considering it's possible that there's more than one Tim Baele out there. However, I did notice that there's a link from the "Buying Tips" page that goes to Poolandspashow.com which lists when this traveling sales group will be selling Master Spas. Conveniently, poolandspashow.com is registered to "Domains by Proxy, Inc." Google led me to "Tim Baele" over @ Twitter, who runs the MasterSpas Twitter page. http://twitter.com/masterspas The internet is a dangerous place my friends. You never know who you're talking to, or whether they be legit or scam, or what their intentions are. You are right there could be more than one Tim Baele's out there and maybe the url registrar is different from the sales manager at Master Spa I really hesitated with my first post. It is bad business to make negative comments about other companies. It is an interesting coincident, however, that just today, 2 days after this post, the owner went into the url registration and removed Tim Baele's name. The url is now registered to Brasco Productions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE SPA GUY Posted July 22, 2010 Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 boy the plot is really thickening. were is spatechsince1922 at , i figured he would be on here trying to spin this since he was going after myself, spatech, term, and roger....its funny how all of a sudden that changes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spawn Posted July 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 boy the plot is really thickening. were is spatechsince1922 at , i figured he would be on here trying to spin this since he was going after myself, spatech, term, and roger....its funny how all of a sudden that changes... I think he has been busy changing that url from Tim Baele to Brasco Productions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted July 22, 2010 Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 boy the plot is really thickening. were is spatechsince1922 at , i figured he would be on here trying to spin this since he was going after myself, spatech, term, and roger....its funny how all of a sudden that changes... I think he has been busy changing that url from Tim Baele to Brasco Productions... LOL, I love the thought of how they're scrambling to cover themselves on these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE SPA GUY Posted July 23, 2010 Report Share Posted July 23, 2010 boy a production name,,,,kind of perculiar here........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted July 23, 2010 Report Share Posted July 23, 2010 The kings of easy to figure out scams strikes again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kreg Posted July 24, 2010 Report Share Posted July 24, 2010 lol you guys never quit! That guy owns retail stores and is a dealer. This is not a manufacturer's website, and I doubt they knew of it's existence. I doubt if ANYONE knew of it's existence, as it doesn't even show up on alexa's website rankings. If a scam falls in the woods and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a noise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East TX Spa Posted July 24, 2010 Report Share Posted July 24, 2010 lol you guys never quit! That guy owns retail stores and is a dealer. This is not a manufacturer's website, and I doubt they knew of it's existence. I doubt if ANYONE knew of it's existence, as it doesn't even show up on alexa's website rankings. If a scam falls in the woods and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a noise? Man alive, he sure is redoing that website in a hurry! Prices are changing, ratings are changing...someone or something must have gotten his attention. How many stores does he have? What are the names of the retail stores? Is it "Hot Tub Broker" or something else? Why was the website registered to Tim Baele and is he the same Tim Baele who is listed as a regional manager for Master Spa? What brands does he "broker" to the consumer? Thanks....it is interesting how much information is out there when one does a little internet forensics. Term Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East TX Spa Posted July 24, 2010 Report Share Posted July 24, 2010 Kreg, It would seem that your last post indicated that you felt hottubroker.con was a scam site and that the person running it was a dealer. What brand does he deal? I would appeal to you to contact the manufacturer and make them aware of what this person is doing, since you indicate that you doubt they knew of its existence. You obviously know what brand he sells, so join the rest of us in helping to clean up the industry by doing what's right for the consumers. I and others appreciate your efforts to help. You should be the point man for this since you are in the area and know more about his operation than anyone else thus far. You would also probably help your bottom line as (according to Spatechsince79) that website is selling a lot of spas. They are your direct competitor, are they not? Myself and others are at your disposal if you require any help. You seem to have an upstanding brick-and-mortar business, and I stand in support of you. Chris O (Terminator) Longview TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE SPA GUY Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Term. you hit that one out of the park... it is a great question to Kreg. i look forward to see what he says . and hopefully we can get this all straightened out. I am gonna have to check on that site again did not get a chance this weekend..... here to also help Eric( The Spa Guy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed3553 Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Tim Beale sells/Reps Master Spas. In fact unless things have changed he is the rep for Kreg. He has been the rep for Michigan for a long time. While his practices might not be the most ethical they do work. Kreg sells master spas out of Ann Arbor Michigan and has been selling them for awhile. Just an FYI I am not defending Tim's site at all. Just trying to help clear up some confusion. I will say Kreg is fair with his customers and does treat them right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Tim Beale sells/Reps Master Spas. In fact unless things have changed he is the rep for Kreg. He has been the rep for Michigan for a long time. While his practices might not be the most ethical they do work. Kreg sells master spas out of Ann Arbor Michigan and has been selling them for awhile. Just an FYI I am not defending Tim's site at all. Just trying to help clear up some confusion. I will say Kreg is fair with his customers and does treat them right. 1) I don't doubt that Tim's practices work on some unsuspecting shoppers. As we all know not all spa shoppers research much and some people will look at that fraudulent website and blindly believe what's there. There is always a certain amount of marketing that goes on and some of it blurrs the lines but when flat are lies are taking place it's shameful. Its no different than the traveling spa show which for years has tried to deceive people into thinking there are multiple manufacturers at the show and often tells lies about them having a local presence/service people set up. Tim's practices are certainly not the most ethical as you state but if they work he and Master doesn't hesitate to use them. The problem is when Kreg or others say Tim's not tied back to Master corporate which isn't true. We know he lately tried to cover his tracks and change the "owner info" on that website but not before people followed the bread crumbs and saw the link to him. 2) I don't question Kreg's business and I don't remember others doing so. He may be a top notch dealer. Just as I wouldn't simply assume a dealer for Jacuzzi, Hot Spring, D1, Sundance (or whatever brand any person thinks is top notch) is great by definition of the brand they carry I wouldn't assume every Master dealer is a problem just because myself or others don't have much good to say about Masters ethics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East TX Spa Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Tim Beale sells/Reps Master Spas. In fact unless things have changed he is the rep for Kreg. He has been the rep for Michigan for a long time. While his practices might not be the most ethical they do work. Kreg sells master spas out of Ann Arbor Michigan and has been selling them for awhile. Just an FYI I am not defending Tim's site at all. Just trying to help clear up some confusion. I will say Kreg is fair with his customers and does treat them right. Let me see if I get this straight: 1. Tim B is the regional manager for Master Spa covering Kreg's territory 2. Tim B was the registered owner of the Hotubbroker.con website up until a few days ago 3. Hottubbroker.con buys spas directly from "manufacturers" and sells them from "the east coast to the west coast", including Kreg's territory right down the road 4. He is selling them at 50% of what his "direct competitor" Kreg (the local retailer) can 5. Kreg claims that Hottubbroker.con "owns retail stores and is a dealer", that the site is "not a manufacturer's website", and he doubts if "they knew of it's existence" Kreg, why on earth would you not report Tim to Master Spa and let them know that he is severely undercutting your business? Not only that, he is evidently undercutting other dealers around the country. That is, unless ALL OF THE DEALERS are in on it. If the regional sales manager of the company I represented engaged in such sleazy tactics in our territory, he would be looking for a new job faster than he could say "several manufacturers all under one roof!" I would think that the type of operation being run by Hottubbroker.con would violate terms of his contract. That is, unless, it were being sanctioned by the home office. Don't take this kind of crap, Kreg. You are Master Spa's customer and deserve to be treated with respect. If I'm misunderstanding any of this, please speak up! If I can help in any way, please let me know. Chris O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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