Someone Help

[Tom]

I believe the moderators can check the ID number of computer users, can they not. I'm not a computer techie, but don't we all have IPO''s which can be used to identify whether Silverfish or dnjsdad is paint?

I would really appreciate that mods. By the way I got a email from paint appologizing for all of the accusations, what many of you fail to realize is they did not ban paint from the site they are just reviewing his posts and making a decision on whether they want to post them. SO THERE. I believe I am correct on this but im sure Mr. M will correct me if I am wrong.

There are four moderators, all relatively new, and we're still learning to work as a team. Doc Spa (Robert's Hot Tubs), Chas (HotSpring dealer), Tom (Arctic Spas Communications Officer) are active moderators. Franci Motz at Bigfish probably lurks (Hi, Franci!)

I've been poking at the IP identification thing, and I can tell you that paintnsunni, dnjsdad, and silverfish all have different IPAs. However, our IT guys tell me that even if they had the same IPA they could still be different individuals, and that it is easy for one individual to post from several different IPAs. The forum software does track name changes, and none of these individuals show a name change. I need to learn more about this.

So for the moment, how about everybody cut dad and the fish a little slack while we continue to poke at this.

I don't know if dnjsdad is correct about paint; I can see no post from him since early December but those are held for preview (just haven't had time to look at them, sorry, paint!)

Tom

[flibotte]

IP addresses aren't hard to spoof and you could always post from multiple computers/locations. I don't think that is a good way to check. I'm not sure if you have logging setup or not and can see when the users log in or out and see some type of pattern.

I don't know if they are the same person or not.....I don't really care. I don't think any of the posts from them serves any real purpose. Costco tubs are just as good blah blah blah.

[Roger]

There's nothing 'lessor' about the Balboa controls in the PE2. They are exactly the same as those used in many other brands of hot tubs and the same issue has appeared with those. Go read other forums and you will see references to the problem. The only reason that they have shown up on the Costco tub is that Costco sells a LOT of hot tubs. Yes, the problem seems to be a software bug. Yes, bugs are bad. Yes, there shouldn't be bugs. Yes, there will always be software bugs. No, the bug is not serious and is easily avoided.

The advantages of digital controls over analog controls for hot tubs are so enormous that the occasional minor problem with software bugs like this one are trivial in comparison.

And you can tell me for sure, because you know for sure that Balboa sells the same control to Hydo as they sell to all the other manufacturers? Just want to clear this up because you got your facts where? Or did you just assume? Because it's a Balboa. The Value 2 system in my tub has worked perfect for 6 years. And not one person with A Great Lakes hot tub has complained about a control board problem as long as i have been here on these boards. I've seen more regarding hydro's Balboa in the last couple months than I have seen in years for any other brand. And you don't think the rest of the manufacturers that use Balboa don't sell thousands?

[jmendoza17]

the warranty wouldn't be voided unless something you did actually caused a fault. flicking a pin toggle, and back again, doesn't seem to intrusive to me. they had you inside it bleeding air, no? un-doing unions and such, that seems more intrusive.

i ask you this, if you bought a brand new car, and it broke down on you a few days later, would you endlessly bitch about the manufacturer, or push it 50 feet to the gas station; as in the end, you found out you plain ran it out of gas. don't laugh, it happens all the time with b/n cars.

there is no seal on the box to tell them you are in it, as you need to pop the cover to wire it up. nwtub, did this actually happen to your tub, if so, how did you figure this out?

Fire if your a consumer, why should you have to put up with crappy products when good ones are available in the market. This is not a car that ran out of gas, its a BRAND NEW spa that has never given me the satisfaction of good service. Until problem is solved --and it's not up to me to do that, otherwise I am an idiot twice-- I am going to be a pissed consumer. All of you that advocate I roll up my sleeves and get in there and fix it are missing the point. Why the hell should I? I paid new money for a new product. If it was two or three years old, it would be another story. So the company deserves the bad rap from me, cause I completed my part of the bargain: I forked over my hard earned cash.

[Firestorm]

you are in the right, i never disputed that.

[Silverfish]

IP addresses aren't hard to spoof and you could always post from multiple computers/locations. I don't think that is a good way to check. I'm not sure if you have logging setup or not and can see when the users log in or out and see some type of pattern.

I don't know if they are the same person or not.....I don't really care. I don't think any of the posts from them serves any real purpose. Costco tubs are just as good blah blah blah.

Actually, I came here with a desire to understand the differences in tubs and see if I could find some information that would help me make a wise consumer decision. I still haven't seen much along the line of a valid discussion concerning technical and structural differences of the various brands. I did see the Arctic tubs. I was impressed by the apparent superior insulation. I didn't buy one. I bought the PEII. The decision was based on size, features, and cost. I didn't have much more to go on. Although, I really haven't had an eye opening electric bill with the PEII, I'll give that a couple months and see what happens. And, no I didn't even add any extra insulation, although I do recall there were a few useful posts on that topic a few months back. I'm not comparing the PEII to other hot tubs. As I said before, I couldn't find a basis to do that. I bought one. It works. My son likes it. I'm content. There may be better. It may not be the BMW of hot tubs. But, then I never thought I needed the BMW of hot tubs. I really still couldn't tell you which one is, though. And I don't care. But, as far as I can tell, it does what it's supposed to do. And, again, it works.

I have joined a couple other message boards. They all form their little cliques. Some exist to support those in a particular industry. That's usually pretty clearly stated, however. Sadly, this one is billed as a place to exchange information. Clearly, real information is neither welcome or provided. It's strange that venom is reserved for those who discuss a certain product, rather than the ones who refer to others as "idiots", "dummy", "goofy", etc. It's your little social group. If that's how you want to run it, great. You indicate that you wonder why those you've driven out of town aren't around to post experience years down the road. It's because they've found nothing helpful here. Or, because finding the little tidbits of real information is so laborious that they give up.

I have no basis for determining the value of my spa as compared to any others and as far as I can tell neither do any of you. I hope yours are all worth what you think they are. If they're worth more than mine, I'm happy for you. If you resent, fear, or dislike Costco, I'm sorry.

[mader]

Lets all take a trip to medonza's and do this fix for him. medonza...where do you live??

[jmendoza17]

Because if you got to sit in it wet before you bought it and paid a whole bunch more than it was worth, you'd be happy.

Because even if it takes up a big part of your yard, you never want to actually fix it. Complaining is so much more effective.

Whoever you are, either you are incredibly sophisticated and really know how to undermine people by attacking them personally instead of addressing their statements, or you are something else... readers can draw their own conclusions. The fact is that the uninvited hostile shot you initially posted was your response to a very reasonable question I asked of other posters: "why would any ordinary joe want to go through all that hassle just to get a spa to work properly?" Instead of addressing the fact of the question, you questioned my desire to fix the spa.

In response to your statement attacking the lack of meaningful exchanges in this forum, I think plenty of good information gets exchanged on this forum. I initially suggested Baron call the manufacturer or return his spa to costco. You just don't happen to agree with the information or the opinions of others and therefore dismiss and denigrate what is exchanged. My observation is that, unfortunately, some, such as yourself, seem to personally connect themselves with the products they own that a critical assessment of the item brings out their need to defend the self.

Furthermore, contrary to your recent straw man, I don't see many attacks on Costco. I think Costco has done wonders for consumers, and in fact would be in trouble myself if not for the safety net offered by their warranty. So really, the only one who should fear Costcos power is an incompetent manufacturer who will find themselves held accountable by Cosctco's econmy-of-scale market power. Dealers may not like the economic competition, but I have not read attacks on Costco directly.

I simply post my reasons and facts because they will be of value to anyone who honestly wants to know both the benefits and risks of buying a PII. Though I am more than capable as a technician, I don't need or want help in fixing the unit. It is the manufacturer's responsibility to do that as part of the consumer/seller exchange process. They have just sucked bigtime so far and I just report the facts so that anyone considering the spa might save themselves a heap of trouble. I stand by my low opinion of the product I have bought and of Hydropsa.

[Roger]

I simply post my reasons and facts because they will be of value to anyone who honestly wants to know both the benefits and risks of buying a PII. Though I am more than capable as a technician, I don't need or want help in fixing the unit. It is the manufacturer's responsibility to do that as part of the consumer/seller exchange process. They have just sucked bigtime so far and I just report the facts so that anyone considering the spa might save themselves a heap of trouble. I stand by my low opinion of the product I have bought and of Hydropsa.

You get your tub fixed yet?. I would fill it and run it so I could soak. Who cares if it blows up!!

[What the?]

Whoever you are, either you are incredibly sophisticated and really know how to undermine people by attacking them personally instead of addressing their statements, or you are something else... readers can draw their own conclusions. The fact is that the uninvited hostile shot you initially posted was your response to a very reasonable question I asked of other posters: "why would any ordinary joe want to go through all that hassle just to get a spa to work properly?" Instead of addressing the fact of the question, you questioned my desire to fix the spa.

In response to your statement attacking the lack of meaningful exchanges in this forum, I think plenty of good information gets exchanged on this forum. I initially suggested Baron call the manufacturer or return his spa to costco. You just don't happen to agree with the information or the opinions of others and therefore dismiss and denigrate what is exchanged. My observation is that, unfortunately, some, such as yourself, seem to personally connect themselves with the products they own that a critical assessment of the item brings out their need to defend the self.

Furthermore, contrary to your recent straw man, I don't see many attacks on Costco. I think Costco has done wonders for consumers, and in fact would be in trouble myself if not for the safety net offered by their warranty. So really, the only one who should fear Costcos power is an incompetent manufacturer who will find themselves held accountable by Cosctco's econmy-of-scale market power. Dealers may not like the economic competition, but I have not read attacks on Costco directly.

I simply post my reasons and facts because they will be of value to anyone who honestly wants to know both the benefits and risks of buying a PII. Though I am more than capable as a technician, I don't need or want help in fixing the unit. It is the manufacturer's responsibility to do that as part of the consumer/seller exchange process. They have just sucked bigtime so far and I just report the facts so that anyone considering the spa might save themselves a heap of trouble. I stand by my low opinion of the product I have bought and of Hydropsa.

jmendoza17,

I don't have a tub I am more of lurker, but I really take exception to your posts. How can a guy who bought a freakin tub back June have 168 posts about how crappy it is still sit here without actually taking it back. Personally I don't even think you have one. In fact I would not mind seeing a picture of it in your back yard. How can it be that you have 168 posts and they all relate to costco in one way or another. In fact from what I can tell you haven't even discussed another spa in 6 months. My bet is either your dealer, or you have some other agenda, perhaps a fired employee. For two months now, everytime someone wants to ask a legitimate question about costco spas you steer it in some other direction. Fix it, return it, do something with it man, its pathetic.

Enquiring minds want to know.

[wesj53]

Before my day becomes hectic again, I thought to address some of silverfish' comments. Silver, I don't know how long you've been around this forum, but I sincerely want to tell you that this is a great place to get advice on what to look for when prospecting for spas and also technical advice for water chemistry problems as well as mechanically related questions. Yes, there are dealers and consumers alike who have biases for their brands (some more intense than others) but overall I think this is a good place to exchange ideas, opinions, etc.

I believe your dislike for the Costco?Hydrospa subject matter is based upon some residual resentment against an individual who was not only juvenile in his methodology of posts, but argumentative to the extreme where discussions became circular; in other words, no end to his sometimes unanswerable questions. The subject of quality and value in the market is a good one and many times can only be answered by the length a product has been in the market. Just like vehicles, certain hot tub brands get bad PR due to quality problems, lack of competent service, etc. The additional problem in this industry is that there is little or no testing performed on different brands and models by independent testing companies like Consumer Reports. IMO, this is a MAJOR deficiency in the industry. So issues like insulation, energy usage, noise levels, variations of jets, seating configurations, warranties are not addressed by an independent third party who could advise the public about some of the differences they found thru their testing and investigation.

Specifically to the Costco/Hydrospa issue, I will relate my personal story (as I have done many times before). When I was looking for a spa in August, I researched and wet tested over 10 different mfgs including Hydrospa. There was a dealer here in the Chicago area who sold their line, as well as Master and Barefoot (Hawkeye Mfg). When I expressed some interest in the Hydrospa, he mentioned that he had just dropped the line due to quality issues, lack of customer service, etc. I then located another dealer who told me the same story. So in a market of over 7mm people, Hydrospa had NO dealers. I then went on the internet and found a company who sold them and I received a price of about $7k for the Omni model. I also investigated Costco stores in the metro area and found none that sold the Platinum product. At the same time, I read many threads on this forum where people posted every imaginable problem with their Hydrospa product ranging from cabinet panels falling off to pumps not working to control panels malfunctioning. So with those commetns in mind, along with not having the Costco return policy, and not having a local dealer to assist with service (I am not mechanically inclined), I decided to go in a different direction. I just did not want the headaches that a lot of other people were having after spending over $7k for a unit. Does that make sense to you? I have no other biases against Hydrospa other than what I have read here and experience thru local dealers who said nothing good about them. That is how I formulated my opinions.

The bottom line is to not take a lot of posts personally. I got slammed a bit for my enthusiasm for Arctic but as the novelty of buying a spa has worn off, I recognize there is quite a bit of emotionalism when buying a spa for the first time and folks get excited about their purchase just a child receiving his or her most wished-for gift at Christmas. As the emotionalism wears off, you temper your enthusiasm and become more reserved with your comments. I hope this all helps you understand this forum better. Now I have to get to work!

[Brulan1]

Before my day becomes hectic again, I thought to address some of silverfish' comments. Silver, I don't know how long you've been around this forum, but I sincerely want to tell you that this is a great place to get advice on what to look for when prospecting for spas and also technical advice for water chemistry problems as well as mechanically related questions. Yes, there are dealers and consumers alike who have biases for their brands (some more intense than others) but overall I think this is a good place to exchange ideas, opinions, etc.

I believe your dislike for the Costco?Hydrospa subject matter is based upon some residual resentment against an individual who was not only juvenile in his methodology of posts, but argumentative to the extreme where discussions became circular; in other words, no end to his sometimes unanswerable questions. The subject of quality and value in the market is a good one and many times can only be answered by the length a product has been in the market. Just like vehicles, certain hot tub brands get bad PR due to quality problems, lack of competent service, etc. The additional problem in this industry is that there is little or no testing performed on different brands and models by independent testing companies like Consumer Reports. IMO, this is a MAJOR deficiency in the industry. So issues like insulation, energy usage, noise levels, variations of jets, seating configurations, warranties are not addressed by an independent third party who could advise the public about some of the differences they found thru their testing and investigation.

Specifically to the Costco/Hydrospa issue, I will relate my personal story (as I have done many times before). When I was looking for a spa in August, I researched and wet tested over 10 different mfgs including Hydrospa. There was a dealer here in the Chicago area who sold their line, as well as Master and Barefoot (Hawkeye Mfg). When I expressed some interest in the Hydrospa, he mentioned that he had just dropped the line due to quality issues, lack of customer service, etc. I then located another dealer who told me the same story. So in a market of over 7mm people, Hydrospa had NO dealers. I then went on the internet and found a company who sold them and I received a price of about $7k for the Omni model. I also investigated Costco stores in the metro area and found none that sold the Platinum product. At the same time, I read many threads on this forum where people posted every imaginable problem with their Hydrospa product ranging from cabinet panels falling off to pumps not working to control panels malfunctioning. So with those commetns in mind, along with not having the Costco return policy, and not having a local dealer to assist with service (I am not mechanically inclined), I decided to go in a different direction. I just did not want the headaches that a lot of other people were having after spending over $7k for a unit. Does that make sense to you? I have no other biases against Hydrospa other than what I have read here and experience thru local dealers who said nothing good about them. That is how I formulated my opinions.

The bottom line is to not take a lot of posts personally. I got slammed a bit for my enthusiasm for Arctic but as the novelty of buying a spa has worn off, I recognize there is quite a bit of emotionalism when buying a spa for the first time and folks get excited about their purchase just a child receiving his or her most wished-for gift at Christmas. As the emotionalism wears off, you temper your enthusiasm and become more reserved with your comments. I hope this all helps you understand this forum better. Now I have to get to work!

Well said. Encore. Amen to that!

[Silverfish]

One, it's really irritating the way this board automatically includes the complete text of the post that one is responding to.

Two, I was hoping mendoza wouldn't realize how sophisticated I am and that my nefarious plot to take over the world starts with a clearly manipulative statement that my economy hot tub works and seems sufficient for my needs ( wild eyed emotion, indeed) on an obscure internet message board. Clearly the best place to start the revolution. The jig certainly is up. Although really, I wouldn't want a broken hot tub in my back yard. If it was, I'd have had it fixed or gotten rid of it by now. Maybe I wouldn't even have bought another one. It's not that essential for my survival. The big concrete slab could prove to be an interesting auxiliary patio. I don't feel the need to prove to you that I'm content with it. I am. That's it. Content. I don't feel the need to make any of you like it. I don't care. I've dealt with enough religious extremists and Republicans to know not to waste my breath on those convinced of their own righteousness. Now, as I previously indicated, if there was real information on what I can expect in terms of operational reliability, quality of construction, quality of components, longevity, energy usage, etc., as compared to other tubs, I remain curious. Just curious. Because I already bought the thing, and has been pointed out, it's not a toaster. I'm not going to haul it out on a whim or because somebody has a prettier tub than me. If, on the other hand, it stops working, and I can't get it fixed quickly, I'll have it hauled back to Costco way before I come near a computer keyboard to complain about it. That's the extent of my emotional connection. It's a big warm bubbling box of water. That's all it is. Also, I may find information on operation to be useful. I may also come up with some questions on water chemistry. I may want to add insulation after I see what it does power-wise over the winter. Or maybe I'll be running the world by then and I'll just own one of each kind of hot tub and keep a staff of hot tub experts to figure out how to run them. Just for the heck of it.

[Dr. Spa]

Well kids, recess is over, everyone back in the classroom now.