Latest Costco

[DK117]

Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Some learn from history, others are destined to repeat it.

I said that already but thanks for the backup!

[Roger]

Some learn from history, others are destined to repeat it.

Any poster could come here and ask how's ABC spa offered at Costco and my answer will be the same! 10 years from now some guy will come here and say "hows XYZ spa from Costco" my answer will be the same. Costco's business model does not support a quality product in the hot tub market. They had an offering from Watkins but pulled it, to expensive Costco customers wern't interested. So even 5 years from now, "hey hows LMO brand spa from Costco" They are what they are. An inexpensive option to a quality product from a dealer. Forcing low prices to manufacturers forces lower quality, simple.

[JerimiahR]

By the way, it’s not really true that you get what you pay for. Ask the Bernie Madoff investors. That euphemism is the battle cry of the naïve. The converse, though, is true: you won’t get what you don’t pay for. If you don’t pay for dealer support an setup, you won’t get it. Again, that’s common sense.

That's not a very good comparison. Bernie Madoff outright defrauded people. This isn't an issue of spending more to get quality. In fact, some folks gave Mr. Madoff their savings money, others gave him millions. They all input different amounts of capital and got nothing for it. This was a case of being lied to and defrauded, not sold a lesser product. That might be a better example to use when you're relating to the eBay hot tub sellers that people keep coming to these forums and posting about how they've given up their cash and never received anything.

The old adage that you get what you pay for, has nothing to do with fraudulent schemers like Mr. Madoff. It's all about spending the money on quality, so that you truly get your money's worth. If you buy cheap, you'll get cheap. If you buy quality/higher end, that's also what you'll get. This adage has been around for a very long time, and it hasn't stuck around simply because it's cliche.

If anything, your Bernie Madoff example goes more toward choosing who you deal with wisely. This guy had a great story (like every hot tub company tells), however a good story doesn't always mean good things. This is a perfect example why so many folks choose security (Hot Spring, Sundance, etc). These are companies which are proven to be safe, where as the come and go companies dealing with Costco aren't the safe long term bet. I'm not insinuating buying at Costco is a fraud risk, because obviously Costco refunds you if you're unhappy. But hopefully you understand my point.

Now, as to your Toyota example in another thread. Could Watkins potentially have a recall in the future? Sure, anything is possible. But a company like Toyota stands behind their product, issues the recall, and pulls through everything just fine. However, when the small time company has a major recall issue, there's substantial risk of bankruptcy by comparison. So again, it's all about choosing your support network wisely. Again, you get what you pay for...

(As a side note: I drive a Toyota which is not in the numerous recalls. At the same time, I'm planning to invest in a new Toyota vehicle in the next year, regardless of the recalls. Why? Because Toyota is a solid, reliable product, regardless of an occasional snafu).

[hot_water]

By the way, it’s not really true that you get what you pay for. Ask the Bernie Madoff investors. That euphemism is the battle cry of the naïve. The converse, though, is true: you won’t get what you don’t pay for. If you don’t pay for dealer support an setup, you won’t get it. Again, that’s common sense.

That's not a very good comparison. Bernie Madoff outright defrauded people. This isn't an issue of spending more to get quality. In fact, some folks gave Mr. Madoff their savings money, others gave him millions. They all input different amounts of capital and got nothing for it. This was a case of being lied to and defrauded, not sold a lesser product. That might be a better example to use when you're relating to the eBay hot tub sellers that people keep coming to these forums and posting about how they've given up their cash and never received anything.

The old adage that you get what you pay for, has nothing to do with fraudulent schemers like Mr. Madoff. It's all about spending the money on quality, so that you truly get your money's worth. If you buy cheap, you'll get cheap. If you buy quality/higher end, that's also what you'll get. This adage has been around for a very long time, and it hasn't stuck around simply because it's cliche.

If anything, your Bernie Madoff example goes more toward choosing who you deal with wisely. This guy had a great story (like every hot tub company tells), however a good story doesn't always mean good things. This is a perfect example why so many folks choose security (Hot Spring, Sundance, etc). These are companies which are proven to be safe, where as the come and go companies dealing with Costco aren't the safe long term bet. I'm not insinuating buying at Costco is a fraud risk, because obviously Costco refunds you if you're unhappy. But hopefully you understand my point.

Now, as to your Toyota example in another thread. Could Watkins potentially have a recall in the future? Sure, anything is possible. But a company like Toyota stands behind their product, issues the recall, and pulls through everything just fine. However, when the small time company has a major recall issue, there's substantial risk of bankruptcy by comparison. So again, it's all about choosing your support network wisely. Again, you get what you pay for...

(As a side note: I drive a Toyota which is not in the numerous recalls. At the same time, I'm planning to invest in a new Toyota vehicle in the next year, regardless of the recalls. Why? Because Toyota is a solid, reliable product, regardless of an occasional snafu).

I said I was done but this bears responding to.

Your comments on Madoff are interesting but just a rationalization. The generalization, "you get what you pay for" is disproven repeatedly in every area of consumer life. We all shop for bargains every day. Many identical products of all types can be be routinely purchased at a discount, and many retailers offer identical products at widely differing prices, by virtue of their buying power, lower overhead, or other price advantages. Many less expensive "store brand" items are made by the same factories that make the national brands. I can get a loaf of Wonder bread or a box of Tide detergent at a large chain supermarket for 30% less than I can get it for at the AM-PM Minimarket. The idea that "you get what you pay for" is some sort of universal truth is simply not consistent with reality. Certainly there are many cases where lower price does indeed mean lower quality, but it is foolhardy - and very expensive - to equate high price with high quality. When you bought your Toyota did you not shop?

Madoff was just one extreme example. You missed the point - namely that the converse (you don't get what you don't pay for) makes far more sense. As for picking who you deal with wisely, yes, I agree with this. It is often easier said than done. Madoff, as evidenced by the enormous numbers of people he dealt with, was extraordinarily skillful at duping people and selling them on his integrity AND reputation. A great salesman, but clearly not much of a product.

It is true that a number of manufacturers that sold through Costco went under. As you may know, Sundance closed some stores also, and in general hot tub sales are reported to be down. It's far from a foregone conclusion that these manufacturers will be here to support their customers. Personally, I find Costco, a $70 billion company that is the #2 retailer in the country and the #4 retailer in the world, to be a better bet in terms of honoring warranty.

Please keep in mind that while those spa manufacturers did indeed go belly-up, Costco arranged a third party to honor the warranty on those products - and Costco CS would get involved with any complaints. Moreover, Costco continued and continues to honor the no-time-limit return policy on those spas. In other words, Costco completely insulated their members from the negative ramifications of the bankruptcies. Even if they remain financially healthy, and I hope they do, will Watkins take back a 6 year old HS, no questions asked, simply because the owner is not satisfied? If you truly get what you pay for, then why can a HS buyer not enjoy that level of protection and dedication to his satisfaction? This is rhetorical. No one expects a specialty dealer of a single type product to support such a policy. But it does support in fact that you *don't always* get what you pay for and that there are some real advantages to dealing with a $70B company that is obsessive about keeping its members happy and paying their annual renewal fee.

[walleye]

OK, to make it simple. If I want a decent hot tub for under $4K, what is it? Is this is where Costco shines, providing a decent (not the best)product at a decent price? Obviously if I wanted to spend 6-10K there are better options. Tell me the best option for under $4K please.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

OK, to make it simple. If I want a decent hot tub for under $4K, what is it? Is this is where Costco shines, providing a decent (not the best)product at a decent price? Obviously if I wanted to spend 6-10K there are better options. Tell me the best option for under $4K please.

Costcos history shows the return policy is where Costco shines, they've never shined in the quality department on thier hot tub offferings, just the opposite. The jury is still out on their latest offering so it would be unfair to assume its more of the same though its also unwise to assume its not, time will tell.

The best option under $4k is a well maintained used tub IMO. If you do go the Costco route just go in with the understanding that if things turn sour you plan to return it, not an easy chore for some though you can always hire someone to do that for you if that becomes the situation.

[DK117]

OK, to make it simple. If I want a decent hot tub for under $4K, what is it? Is this is where Costco shines, providing a decent (not the best)product at a decent price? Obviously if I wanted to spend 6-10K there are better options. Tell me the best option for under $4K please.

Costcos history shows the return policy is where Costco shines, they've never shined in the quality department on thier hot tub offferings, just the opposite. The jury is still out on their latest offering so it would be unfair to assume its more of the same though its also unwise to assume its not, time will tell.

The best option under $4k is a well maintained used tub IMO. If you do go the Costco route just go in with the understanding that if things turn sour you plan to return it, not an easy chore for some though you can always hire someone to do that for you if that becomes the situation.

Also, Walleye is asking for $4k including wiring. I'm not sure the scope of the wiring, I think he said his breaker box was full. That could be $700 plus easily. Now you're in the $3K budget area, and that's certainly a used spa. Strong Spa's, electrical, movers, you're $5K plus.

DK117

[walleye]

OK, to make it simple. If I want a decent hot tub for under $4K, what is it? Is this is where Costco shines, providing a decent (not the best)product at a decent price? Obviously if I wanted to spend 6-10K there are better options. Tell me the best option for under $4K please.

Costcos history shows the return policy is where Costco shines, they've never shined in the quality department on thier hot tub offferings, just the opposite. The jury is still out on their latest offering so it would be unfair to assume its more of the same though its also unwise to assume its not, time will tell.

The best option under $4k is a well maintained used tub IMO. If you do go the Costco route just go in with the understanding that if things turn sour you plan to return it, not an easy chore for some though you can always hire someone to do that for you if that becomes the situation.

Also, Walleye is asking for $4k including wiring. I'm not sure the scope of the wiring, I think he said his breaker box was full. That could be $700 plus easily. Now you're in the $3K budget area, and that's certainly a used spa. Strong Spa's, electrical, movers, you're $5K plus.

DK117

Thanks guys. I guess I should have read my own post closer..... I am looking to spend around 4K just for the tub. Not needing speakers and such, just a good hot tub that will relax my body with little trouble. I appreciate your opinions very much.

[Roger]

Thanks guys. I guess I should have read my own post closer..... I am looking to spend around 4K just for the tub. Not needing speakers and such, just a good hot tub that will relax my body with little trouble. I appreciate your opinions very much.

Nordic, Viking, Great Lakes.....just to name a few.

[Spa God]

Wow I must be missing something...

For like 10 plus years now Costco has sold bad spas that failed miserably and every couple of years some new group supplies them and everyone goes "No This time it will be different..."

Forget it... Hot tubs are to complex and specialized for a mass merchant to do successfully...

Inevitably they cut too many corners to get the cost down and then the product is unable to do the job it weas designed to do...

This is not rocket science people...

Buy a brand...

Any brand with 20 years plus of real contuinuous history and you are on the right track...

Or buy a wing and a prayer and pay later...

Why do some people just never learn ????

[arf1410]

"buy a brand" - but on another thread you just trashed Jacuzzi - possible the biggest, and certainly the most well known of all brands!

[bdubya200]

Wow I must be missing something...

For like 10 plus years now Costco has sold bad spas that failed miserably and every couple of years some new group supplies them and everyone goes "No This time it will be different..."

Forget it... Hot tubs are to complex and specialized for a mass merchant to do successfully...

Inevitably they cut too many corners to get the cost down and then the product is unable to do the job it weas designed to do...

This is not rocket science people...

Buy a brand...

Any brand with 20 years plus of real contuinuous history and you are on the right track...

Or buy a wing and a prayer and pay later...

Why do some people just never learn ????

Someone must have soem sand in their shorts. You sir, need to get off the weird and twisted soap box you are on. Youve trashed about 10 different posts in an afternoon with nothing but venom. Please stop.