Spa Shopping

[kaseykent]

Yikes! Let's just say that the "Voice" is not the voice of the entire industry. I don't think joining a forum anonymously and complaining about customers is going to get too many people to jump onboard for the "hot tub revolution," but hey, that is just my opinion. All dealers feel these same woes, but we need to be proactive about it and not just fan the flames of discontent. We all hate losing sales to Costco, or other dealers for that matter, but trying to simply compete on price is signing a death warrant in any industry. We definitely need to step up the service aspects and the quality of our interactions with customers in order to keep our heads above water and eventually regain the market. You said it yourself, "over the past 3 years all Costco's hot tub company's have gone out of business." When they are all gone, we are going to be the ones who are still standing, so let's make sure that we build those relationships now with future prospects and not tarnish our good reputations in the process.

[bart6453]

my store is doing just fine. In fact we are one of the best in the country, and I treat my customers with much respect......But I will ALWAYS treat MY customers better than some stranger who supported Costco and now wants me to save them...

I also see problems, and I fix them now! I am proactive, rather than reactive to a situation....You want us to be in business and have us save you, use our free services and support someone else??

your future must include living inside of a fairy tale??

What is lacking on this forum, rather than in my showroom, is common business sense and a respect for peoples efforts, education, time and value.

dunk your heads in some water

and for the record I am not angry, but just as there once were no speed regulation signs, we all broke the rules and an order had to be put in place....

this industry will change......and you don't have the dealers to blame

The difference between my customers and your customers is that my customers will have a little "Come To Jesus" meeting with you out back if you disrespect them. I doubt your customers would have the same type of reaction. The first time you have your desk flipped over you learn to be nice to people in a real hurry. Not saying we take crap from people either...it works both ways.

Makes for a pretty civil interaction from both directions. Lets just say that we get to make a fair profit, and the customer gets good service.....regardless of where or from whom they purchased their "equipment"

There is a way to treat customers or potential customers....and then there is a way not to.

By your previous posts I really think you are trending towards the latter.

[Voice]

well I guess my customers know that they can't flip my desk

I have done nothing but showcase consumers lack of respect and understanding or at least the ones posting on this forum or in this thread....

I will still take care of any customer that comes through my doors. Much of my information is free, but we have noted people taking advantage of this service and good faith that has been provided in the past. A water test giving the same results as your local professional pool/spa store provides would cost you 300-500 through your local utilities

As a result of this things are changing, and you can be sure it will change across the industry. As well as Costco's prices trending higher, as the economy rebounds and all inventory levels are moving back to the proper levels.....

One thing will stay constant though, the companies they do choose to support, will continue to go out of business and the warranties with them....

[reeffreak]

Yikes! Let's just say that the "Voice" is not the voice of the entire industry. I don't think joining a forum anonymously and complaining about customers is going to get too many people to jump onboard for the "hot tub revolution," but hey, that is just my opinion. All dealers feel these same woes, but we need to be proactive about it and not just fan the flames of discontent. We all hate losing sales to Costco, or other dealers for that matter, but trying to simply compete on price is signing a death warrant in any industry. We definitely need to step up the service aspects and the quality of our interactions with customers in order to keep our heads above water and eventually regain the market. You said it yourself, "over the past 3 years all Costco's hot tub company's have gone out of business." When they are all gone, we are going to be the ones who are still standing, so let's make sure that we build those relationships now with future prospects and not tarnish our good reputations in the process.

"Voice" is towing the industry line by explaining why the dealers are right and the customers are wrong. While making the erroneous assumptions that (1) those customers who disagree are relegated to the Costco heap, and (2) it's all a pricing game. Make your competition work, make your customers work. And he's right. It was right there on display when I was shopping. (and I didn't end up at Costco BTW).

The big opportunity here is not in tub sales, it's in education. Write the books, start holding seminars. This will turn the marketing industry on its ear, as I've yet to see this philosophy in print at Amazon, or in any course of study. Take it to the masses and make tons of money. I'm not sure if the book would be shelved in the Business Development, Fantasy, or the Comedy department at Borders though.

I did eventually find a "professional" I could trust (and paid a fair price). But several before that didn't pass muster. Too bad.

[reeffreak]

The difference between my customers and your customers is that my customers will have a little "Come To Jesus" meeting with you out back if you disrespect them. I doubt your customers would have the same type of reaction. The first time you have your desk flipped over you learn to be nice to people in a real hurry. Not saying we take crap from people either...it works both ways.

So I gotta ask about your line of work.. Are you in "Waste Management?" Ha!

[dasher]

I almost hate to wonder back into a post I started, this is all about dealers who are mad at competing with discounters now. I don't appreciate the comment about "lack of respect and understanding" if that exist it is the fault of the dealers, most customers don't have understanding about your industry that is why they are looking for a professional they feel they can trust. I worked in retail selling high end lawn care equipment, and we sold on quality and service, our competitors and customers knew our prices and service. The services you offer lead to a potential customer and sales of accessories, so embrace them and make them customers; as many of our customers started with lower quality equipment but we educated them on the differences in quality and service and price was no longer the biggest customer factor.

As my parting comment I want to say that the post has become a shining example of what I am talking about. Every business must make it's choices and so will each customer, I hope each and everyone does well as their is a business and customer each type. Find your customer or business and let those that are not compatible go.

OK disgruntled dealers, take your shots!

Wishing everyone the very best and a Merry Christmas!

Dasher

[Wannago]

my store is doing just fine. In fact we are one of the best in the country, and I treat my customers with much respect......But I will ALWAYS treat MY customers better than some stranger who supported Costco and now wants me to save them...

I also see problems, and I fix them now! I am proactive, rather than reactive to a situation....You want us to be in business and have us save you, use our free services and support someone else??

your future must include living inside of a fairy tale??

What is lacking on this forum, rather than in my showroom, is common business sense and a respect for peoples efforts, education, time and value.

dunk your heads in some water

and for the record I am not angry, but just as there once were no speed regulation signs, we all broke the rules and an order had to be put in place....

this industry will change......and you don't have the dealers to blame

Voice....being the elite dealer / businessman you are, would you care to divulge what dealership you run, and in what city please? If you're at all close to me, or any of the cities I frequent, I would love to stop by and check it out in person. And, just out of curiosity, how exactly do you know that you are one of the best in the country?

Thanks

[kaseykent]

Reeffreak,

I agree with what you are saying; it is about education. Educating those in the industry and those who are shopping in it. Nothing is going to be solved by simply saying "the dealers are right and the customers are wrong." This posting started out as a customer looking for some answers and feedback, but turned into proof of what is wrong with the spa shopping experience. As Dasher has logged another comment talking about his experience, it feels like we missed a great opportunity to help someone and instead, just furthered the opinions and stereotypes of the hot tub industry.

Sorry Dasher, I wish you the best.

[Tadaia]

My wife and I have been planning to buy a hot tub for ourselves for Christmas, and I have to say the whole process is turning me off the idea. What is it with an industry that you go in a store, no prices! One place (hotspring) huge sign Truckload sale, they had 1 new spa in the showroom and showed me the MSRP and quoted me that as a price; nice sale! Year end sales, buy now or you will loose this great deal. But is it a deal, no one knows because what are the real prices!!!! It's better buying a used car!

I am down to looking at 2 right now and I will post the deals so you can tell me what you think....

Jacuzzi J-355 Cover, Lifter, Steps, Starter Chem and delivery, no ozone $8799.00

Sundance Cameo, Cover, lifter, steps, starter Chem, delivery, ozone system $9995.00

I know that Jacuzzi is the mid line and the Sundance is top line but I can't see paying jacuzzi more to have the waterfall a bit higher and different lights.

It's just sad that the whole process has me fustrated and my wife turned off by the whole idea of getting a spa.

Feel free to give me any imput and ideas, If I don't decide by next weekend I am gonna throw in the towel and wait for the spring home show to revisit the idea.

Thanks,

Dasher, Atlanta, GA

Hey Dasher

I live in the Atlanta area and recently bought a new Hot Springs Vanguard for $8500 (incl tax). So sorry to hear you're a bit worn out by the process. I understand and agree that it can be trying. I'm totally enjoying my HT and because of that overall I look on the experience as positive. HOWEVER am still a bit angry about how I was handled by the local dealer.

I was initially promised the tub in 2-3 weeks and it didn't show up until 2 mos later. I would've been ok with that except for the piss-poor communication after having already paid in full for the HT. I had a deck built which could not be completed until the HT was delivered and ended up getting off my contractor's schedule (who tried to hold it open as long as he could) because I couldn't give him a firm date. I called the dealer weekly and could hardly get a return call... and when I did I got smoke blown up my rear from week to week on delivery. The whole project was planned for 3 weeks and took almost 3 mos instead, further because of the weather I can't stain until possibly the spring. Many thousands of dollars spent and I only hope my deck will be ok unprotected. When I finally calm down I will be writing a letter to the owner and making my presence felt on forums like this to warn others. Maybe they are selling the best brand out there and my "insignificant purchase" means little to them when they're selling customized tubs to all the important people in the metro area. But there are more of us than there are of them, and I don't feel that ANY customer should be treated that way. END OF RANT

Anyhoo... bottom line is that you have to feel good about the process as well as what you want. Sometimes that's a matter of your own perspective, you can welcome and accept the challenges or maybe you're just not ready yet. Perhaps you're having reservations for other reasons. It's good idea to take your time, and visit such forums to educate yourself and gain confidence in your decision-making. As you can see from a few of the posts some dealers are too blinkered with their own tinfoil egos and agendas that they foolishly forget that "the customer is always right"... and even when they're not, a wise businessperson knows not to make obvious issue of the fact to other potential customers.

Again educate yourself and try to embrace the experience because the payoff can be wonderful.

[Mikey_in_NY]

Good post Tadaia - any reason why you paid in full before receiving your HT? Seems to me this HS dealer needs a lesson in consumer relations - crappy way to treat you.

I guess the leason for prospective purchasers here is only put a refundable deposit on any new tub, a condition of 'refundable' being if delivery is unacceptably late (and that's a subjective thing) then you can back out and get your deposit back.

[Tadaia]

Good post Tadaia - any reason why you paid in full before receiving your HT? Seems to me this HS dealer needs a lesson in consumer relations - crappy way to treat you.

I guess the leason for prospective purchasers here is only put a refundable deposit on any new tub, a condition of 'refundable' being if delivery is unacceptably late (and that's a subjective thing) then you can back out and get your deposit back.

Hi Mikey

At the time I just didn't think it would be an issue and knew that I could likely follow up through my credit card company should I decide to pull out from dissatisfaction. It's a big purchase/decision and you dislike having your resolve tested after making it. A lesson learned... and your info is excellent for others in the future.

I guess my biggest concern now is future service and attention from the dealer. As I posted elsewhere, I'd like to install an audio system purchased for the tub and would pay them to do it but I no longer trust or care to deal with them, so I may just do it myself. I'm looking into the warranty details, the system compatibility and other options.

The OP asks some good questions and I hope he continues his quest for holiday HT bliss.

[NewB@Spa]

tadaia, you say you want to install an after-market stereo? Where did you find one? Unfortunately when I bought mine I got a little cheap an opted for a model without integrated stereo. I now regret it.

[bart6453]

The difference between my customers and your customers is that my customers will have a little "Come To Jesus" meeting with you out back if you disrespect them. I doubt your customers would have the same type of reaction. The first time you have your desk flipped over you learn to be nice to people in a real hurry. Not saying we take crap from people either...it works both ways.

So I gotta ask about your line of work.. Are you in "Waste Management?" Ha!

No waste management here....I work in the motorcycle industry...more specifically Harley-Davidson.

[NewB@Spa]

Yeah, most hardcore bikers I have found can be desk flippers if provoked

[Tadaia]

tadaia, you say you want to install an after-market stereo? Where did you find one? Unfortunately when I bought mine I got a little cheap an opted for a model without integrated stereo. I now regret it.

My query is here Spaudiocast And 2009 Vanguard, SpAudioCast compatibility.

I bought it NITB recently from a HS dealer going out of business on Craigslist. It is an SPAudiocast system used with the Hot Springs Line but for previous year models. The new Vanguard's speakers popup where the lighted cupholders are now. The one I bought has speakers that mount on the side shell.

Apologies for highjacking your thread Dasher

[Voice]

Alright lets make this clear. I do not respond to customers as I did on this forum in response to the dealer bashing that this thread originated on. Perhaps I slightly over reacted, but I am a very passionate person of many things, including motorcycles. This does not exclude marketing, sales, and their trends. I have also sold to Costco, and many other locations of the same size, and know first hand how their system works.

When you walk into a Porsche dealer do you see price tags? how about a BMW dealer? Or there was also mention of MSRP's being misleading. Does Tuffstuff fitness's web site have MSRP's on it? yes indeed it does! How about Sony? yes they do also. Yamaha has no pricing at all. Do these facts make any of these companies bad companies? NO IT DOES NOT!

Every dealer, every company has it's own style and it's own system. Maybe it is adapted to it's market, the competition or many other factors. But to come on here "anonymously" and start bashing dealers for simple marketing tactics I find rather annoying. So call me what you will, and assume I am a person or attach a label to me that does not in fact describe me in the least. The rest of you can just pretend to be perfect. But at least I have the nerve to set the record straight. Blunt as it may be. So were forwarded anonymous statements and generalizations.

Fair is Fair though. and if you can dish it out anonymously on a forum, bashing dealers, making generalizations, then expect to get it in return.

[reeffreak]

When you walk into a Porsche dealer do you see price tags? how about a BMW dealer?

Uhhhhhh. Yes. Perhaps you've never been to one? Real prices on their websites too. Imagine that!

No point in arguing with you. These threads come up about once a month. They show that there are customers that want transparency in the pricing and sales process. They're the same folks that don't want bag fees, the used car runaround, gimmicks, negotiation, etc. If a dealer, or the industry as a whole can't / won't accommodate them, fine. Someone else will.

[Roger]

When you walk into a Porsche dealer do you see price tags? how about a BMW dealer?

Uhhhhhh. Yes. Perhaps you've never been to one? Real prices on their websites too. Imagine that!

No point in arguing with you. These threads come up about once a month. They show that there are customers that want transparency in the pricing and sales process. They're the same folks that don't want bag fees, the used car runaround, gimmicks, negotiation, etc. If a dealer, or the industry as a whole can't / won't accommodate them, fine. Someone else will.

But so far "someone else" hasn't been able to accommodate with the same quality. That's to bad.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

When you walk into a Porsche dealer do you see price tags? how about a BMW dealer?

Uhhhhhh. Yes. Perhaps you've never been to one? Real prices on their websites too. Imagine that!

No point in arguing with you. These threads come up about once a month. They show that there are customers that want transparency in the pricing and sales process. They're the same folks that don't want bag fees, the used car runaround, gimmicks, negotiation, etc. If a dealer, or the industry as a whole can't / won't accommodate them, fine. Someone else will.

Many spa dealers show prices, some don't. The ones I've worked with do and I wouldn't want it any other way but each dealer does what they feel is best for them.

Voice speaks for himself. Some things I agree with him on and others I do not. The industry has many voices so there is no "industry as a whole" in reality.

[Mikey_in_NY]

When you walk into a Porsche dealer do you see price tags? how about a BMW dealer?

Uhhhhhh. Yes. Perhaps you've never been to one? Real prices on their websites too. Imagine that!

No point in arguing with you. These threads come up about once a month. They show that there are customers that want transparency in the pricing and sales process. They're the same folks that don't want bag fees, the used car runaround, gimmicks, negotiation, etc. If a dealer, or the industry as a whole can't / won't accommodate them, fine. Someone else will.

Totally agree - that's probably why the airline with the least bag fees is also the most profitable (Southwest). When I shopped for my tub earlier this year I quickly got very weary bartering with dealers to get the final 'real' price - do they think their time is more valuable than my own? Do they really think consumers want to go through all this crap just to buy a hot tub. Maybe I'm stupid but after listening to all the arguments for and against I still don't get why they can't just post the true price on their tubs. If or when Costco get their HT quality together these dealers will soon learn a very valuable lesson, in that consumers don't want to dance the sales dance any more.

[reeffreak]

But so far "someone else" hasn't been able to accommodate with the same quality. That's to bad.

Sure they have. You're talking about a $5-15k discretionary purchase in the worst economy in decades. When folks open their wallet, it's a choice between paying down debt, a couple of vacations, a boat, new patio furniture, etc. etc. Some people won't even set foot in a HT showroom because the industry reputation precedes it. We only did it because it was either HT or pool, and I really wasn't in the mood to drop $40k right now on something that you can't rip out and sell on CL. Kept the kids happy.

My house will need some new windows soon. Plenty of showrooms out there that specialize in this work, but I won't step foot in one b/c the risks of being taken are just about 100%. I get the sense that's what just happened with the OP- he gave up. So we saved one from Costco. Woo Hoo- way to go!

[Roger]

If or when Costco get their HT quality together these dealers will soon learn a very valuable lesson, in that consumers don't want to dance the sales dance any more.

Oooow this is very general. most people will never buy a tub the Costco way. They want more, They want a dealer, and they want a tub they have tryed out and is comfortable because that is the most important part. Believe it or not allot of people do want to dance to a price. Some people enjoy it, probably more enjoy it than don't.

[Roger]

Sure they have. You're talking about a $5-15k discretionary purchase in the worst economy in decades. When folks open their wallet, it's a choice between paying down debt, a couple of vacations, a boat, new patio furniture, etc. etc. Some people won't even set foot in a HT showroom because the industry reputation precedes it. We only did it because it was either HT or pool, and I really wasn't in the mood to drop $40k right now on something that you can't rip out and sell on CL. Kept the kids happy.

My house will need some new windows soon. Plenty of showrooms out there that specialize in this work, but I won't step foot in one b/c the risks of being taken are just about 100%. I get the sense that's what just happened with the OP- he gave up. So we saved one from Costco. Woo Hoo- way to go!

Who has accommodated with the same quality? If you think Costco has your wrong. Or your level of quality is lower than most.

[Tadaia]

Oooow this is very general. most people will never buy a tub the Costco way. They want more, They want a dealer, and they want a tub they have tryed out and is comfortable because that is the most important part. Believe it or not allot of people do want to dance to a price. Some people enjoy it, probably more enjoy it than don't.

Who has accommodated with the same quality? If you think Costco has your wrong. Or your level of quality is lower than most.

Roger I agree with part of your post in that not all are interested in buying a Costco Hot tub and want more quality, however I disagree that most want to "dance" the dance with dealers any more than they want to deal with a shifty used car dealer. I lived in southern Europe for several years and as an American one of the things you had to deal with was the bartering culture in the marketplace. My personal experience is that either out of habit or our own culture, most Americans are not used to this and don't care for it. We want a fair price up front, especially when it comes to high dollar luxuries that we don't purchase often. Some are savvy enough to surf the web to get an idea of pricing or will visit several dealers and make detailed comparisons, but all of it makes one very nervous and at times frustrated. It hardly helps when you're dealing with a slick character or an arrogant salesperson that acts like you owe him something rather than making an honest effort to earn your trust and business in a way that's beneficial to all concerned. I think that Reeffreak hit it dead on... this isn't food or a utility... no one NEEDS a hot tub, particularly in this economy. And even if they really want one, they can and should look for the best deal and service they can find from someone that appreciates their business, before during and after the fact. We all learn as we go along. I would imagine the best dealers make a habit of building that reputation and maintaining it.

[DK117]

Sure they have. You're talking about a $5-15k discretionary purchase in the worst economy in decades. When folks open their wallet, it's a choice between paying down debt, a couple of vacations, a boat, new patio furniture, etc. etc. Some people won't even set foot in a HT showroom because the industry reputation precedes it. We only did it because it was either HT or pool, and I really wasn't in the mood to drop $40k right now on something that you can't rip out and sell on CL. Kept the kids happy.

My house will need some new windows soon. Plenty of showrooms out there that specialize in this work, but I won't step foot in one b/c the risks of being taken are just about 100%. I get the sense that's what just happened with the OP- he gave up. So we saved one from Costco. Woo Hoo- way to go!

Who has accommodated with the same quality? If you think Costco has your wrong. Or your level of quality is lower than most.

Roger ... what's up bud? You having a bad day? You're losing your edge. You know more about the insides of tubs than anyone here. But by your last 5 posts, you're just another local dealer fanboy. When did this happen? What happened to the independent tech? I've respected your opinions and posts and quite frankly learned a lot, but I'm not understanding your recent posts ... Spa shopping has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the spa manufacture. I think we all need to acknowledge that fact.

DK117