The Slippery Slope.

[Chas]

xx

[spa Dr.]

http://sneakykitchenxxx

/watkins/catalog.htm

What's with no image posting these days?

I can't believe this place would ban images but not ban you-know-who.

Sheesh.

he hasn't been around maybe they finally banned him

[Jim_The_Jim]

Jim,

Will you share the name of the manufactuer of the hot tub on Cape Cod that caused a fire, please?

They style of your posts once again indicate that it might be a Hotspring. However, I have little doubt that if it was you would be holding a parade right now.

Why do you keep repeating the ANSI stuff? YES we have read your posts. For me, it was as if a 6 year old was in here repeating the same thing over and over and over and over and over again, to the point where as you just wanted to send the child to his room.

You received some very intteligent responses to your concerns yet, you ignore them and keep repeating the same lines. Perhaps, with your vast inttelect you could find another means of comunicating and address the topics and counter points that have been brought to your attention? How would that work for you?

But please, if you are here to shed light and educate consumers, please educate us on what brand of tub it was the caught fire. Additionaly several posters have sited a situation in your own tubs, that despite your testiments to safety have exhibited a rather frightening, very unsafe condition. I wish you would intellegiently repsond to that.

I wrote the local newspaper and got the phone number for the fire department, and I will find the brand for you.

Any spa brand that uses plastic control boxes is just asking for fires over time.

I don't remember Joh Watkins ever using a plastic box on the spas he designed. Most real engineers would never use plastic, because 50 and 60 amps in plastic should never be anywhere near flamables.

[Chas]

Any spa brand that uses plastic control boxes is just asking for fires over time.

I don't remember Joh Watkins ever using a plastic box on the spas he designed. Most real engineers would never use plastic, because 50 and 60 amps in plastic should never be anywhere near flamables.

Sorry Jim, but your statement is in error. There are many manufacturers who offer ETL and UL listed enclosures which are made of various types of plastic. They are appropriate for corrosive, wet environments such as spas and pools.

I was going to post several pictures, but the site seems to have changed and will not allow "dot com" to be posted, so dynamic links do not go up.

However, if you want, simply Google "Plastic Junction Boxes" and well over a dozen companies will come up which offer a huge assortment of boxes for high voltage, high current use.

Your blanket statement that 'most engineers' followed by any other words is already flawed. Engineers are going to use the best substance for the job. They may make a choice based on cost, but if ETL, UL and/or ANSI is involved, then they are not going to be able to choose an option that is not safe.

Also, John Watkins bought off-the-shelf enclosures, drilled them full of holes to mount the various relays and switches, and the HotSpring spa was born. I don't know for sure, but I don't even think there were high-temp plastic enclosures available 30 years ago. If I am wrong on that, please correct me, but even if so, I doubt they were as cost-effective or as safe as they are now if they were available at all.

Watkins has many papered engineers working for them now, Steve Macy is one of them, and yet they have encorporated plastic junction boxes.

[Autoplay]

"Most real engineers would never use plastic, because 50 and 60 amps in plastic should never be anywhere near flamables."

If I read that statement correctly,am I to assume that Conjuna fills his spas with gasoline etc? Is Ozone GAS flammable? LOL

He never did(JIM) address this,but as his last post testifies.....he did quote from it.

"But please, if you are here to shed light and educate consumers, please educate us on what brand of tub it was the caught fire. Additionaly several posters have sited a situation in your own tubs, that despite your testiments to safety have exhibited a rather frightening, very unsafe condition. I wish you would intellegiently repsond to that."

As usual....he posts babble etc,and when called on his own BS,he either spins it,or chooses to ignore it.

Did I get it right Conjuna?

[Jim_The_Jim]

"Most real engineers would never use plastic, because 50 and 60 amps in plastic should never be anywhere near flamables."

If I read that statement correctly,am I to assume that Conjuna fills his spas with gasoline etc? Is Ozone GAS flammable? LOL

He never did(JIM) address this,but as his last post testifies.....he did quote from it.

"But please, if you are here to shed light and educate consumers, please educate us on what brand of tub it was the caught fire. Additionaly several posters have sited a situation in your own tubs, that despite your testiments to safety have exhibited a rather frightening, very unsafe condition. I wish you would intellegiently repsond to that."

As usual....he posts babble etc,and when called on his own BS,he either spins it,or chooses to ignore it.

Did I get it right Conjuna?

I just got off the phone with the fire department in Cape Cod. The spa was a "Waters Edge" from 1996.

I asked them what the control box was made of and they said it was chard black all melted. The fire started in the box.

If it was steel it would be in tact, because it is the same steel that is used in bar be que's and would never deform or char like that. It would show some blackening on the inside.

If you want I'll take one of our control boxes and build a fire in it for you to see. It does not deform.

The only reason for plastic is to lower costs. I have no idea how the spa industry gets away with plastic control boxes.

Autoplay; What is your control box made out of in your Caldera Spa? and no snide comments because you are so angry with me for pointing out the deficiencies.

For the rest of the readers: What material do you want your control box to be made from?

Plastic?

Aluminum?

Or Steel?

I have always said; "The obvious is not obvious until it becomes obvious."

[Autoplay]

I just got off the phone with the fire department in Cape Cod. The spa was a "Waters Edge" from 1996.

I asked them what the control box was made of and they said it was chard black all melted. The fire started in the box.

If it was steel it would be in tact, because it is the same steel that is used in bar be que's and would never deform or char like that. It would show some blackening on the inside.

If you want I'll take one of our control boxes and build a fire in it for you to see. It does not deform.

The only reason for plastic is to lower costs. I have no idea how the spa industry gets away with plastic control boxes.

Autoplay; What is your control box made out of in your Caldera Spa? and no snide comments because you are so angry with me for pointing out the deficiencies.

For the rest of the readers: What material do you want your control box to be made from?

Plastic?

Aluminum?

Conjuna,I'm not angry at you.....let alone SO angry etc etc. You provide me with comic relief,at your expense. You also are enlightening as far as how NOT to act on an internet discussion board. Your Super,Best,Awesome adjectives etc do little for me,but as you're a prowler for internet sales,more power to ya lol.

As far as my control box,It's a super duper elite bestest top-notch fabulous box. It's made of the same stuff they use to protect the space shuttle(silica TILES btw) and my control box will withstand wires arcin n spaking,and is heat rated to 2700 degrees. I'm actually hoping someone can help me capture the excess heat when my wires start shorting etc.

How's that for a BS answer? Were you really wondering what my box was made out of Conjuna,and if so,why? Again,we come back to WHY?

Oh,were you ever gonna answer the safety issue with your pumps/suction etc ? Let me guess,your tubs are the safest in the entire universe,and before they leave the sawmill...the internet Pope blesses em with Conjuna kool-aid.

Define "snide"

P.S. ... I was known as the king of head to head in my younger years on the net. Not that it matters to you,but most after trying to dance with me awhile,gave up in futility as,they looked like a bigger fool then when the battle of wits(or lack there-of) began. I'll say it again,you understand little about debates/debating. As I mentioned awhile back,there are rules to be followed,and you break almost all of em. You sure love to ARGUE though lol. Again,WHY is that? LOLOLOL

Or Steel?

I have always said; "The obvious is not obvious until it becomes obvious."

[Autoplay]

Forgot to add.....New spa owners,and old spa owners......I'm sure 1 of the highest priorities is the material of the control box.

Well since you asked what people wished they were made out of.....I rebuke all 3 of your suggestions I.E. Plastic/Steel/Aluminum.

You've gotten me so worried bout my control box,that tomorrow I'm gonna encase the entire thing in fire-bricks. How can I core the bricks,to capture any excess heat from the sun?

[Jim_The_Jim]

Sorry Jim, but your statement is in error. There are many manufacturers who offer ETL and UL listed enclosures which are made of various types of plastic. They are appropriate for corrosive, wet environments such as spas and pools.

I was going to post several pictures, but the site seems to have changed and will not allow "dot com" to be posted, so dynamic links do not go up.

However, if you want, simply Google "Plastic Junction Boxes" and well over a dozen companies will come up which offer a huge assortment of boxes for high voltage, high current use.

Your blanket statement that 'most engineers' followed by any other words is already flawed. Engineers are going to use the best substance for the job. They may make a choice based on cost, but if ETL, UL and/or ANSI is involved, then they are not going to be able to choose an option that is not safe.

Also, John Watkins was not an engineer. He bought off-the-shelf enclosures, drilled them full of holes to mount the various relays and switches, and the HotSpring spa was born. I don't know for sure, but I don't even think there were high-temp plastic enclosures available 30 years ago. If I am wrong on that, please correct me, but even if so, I doubt they were as cost-effective or as safe as they are now if they were available at all.

Watkins has many papered engineers working for them now, Steve Macy is one of them, and yet they have encorporated plastic junction boxes.

Jon Watkins was a civil engineer, I'll have you know? Geeze! Are you a stupid Watkins dealer or what?

His spas were excellent in the control box and he did not put in 240 V on a tiny circ pump. That was the BS of some greedy marketing company.

Plastic Boxes should never be anywhere near flammables.

You continue to sound like a very desperate salesman.

[waterbear]

Another thread destroyed by one post and me feeding the stupididty fire.

Now this is entertainment, watching the self destruction of a man.

This insane individual is now following my into other threads on water chemistry to hurl insults at me there. In one thread he was demanding to know how old I was! I think he was hoping I was a young kid with no experience. I happen to be in my 50's so that blows him out of the water (pun intended). He's like a computer virus....he just keeps infecting thread after thread after thread....

[Roger]

This insane individual is now following my into other threads on water chemistry to hurl insults at me there. In one thread he was demanding to know how old I was! I think he was hoping I was a young kid with no experience. I happen to be in my 50's so that blows him out of the water (pun intended). He's like a computer virus....he just keeps infecting thread after thread after thread....

Yea.....its good solid entertainment.

To answer your question with no side stepping or dancing Jim just a good quick short answer. I would like my control box made from the same material they are currently using for junction boxes in new construction. It is not plastic,steel, or aluminum. It is a very solid type of recycled material stuff that will hold up longer to a heat source than the thin metal currently used in todays metal junction boxes. It is encapsulated with fiberglass or some type of fiber material. I can't seem to find any info on it sorry but go to your local store and see if you can find out what it is.

[Spa User Guy]

Yea.....its good solid entertainment.

To answer your question with no side stepping or dancing Jim just a good quick short answer. I would like my control box made from the same material they are currently using for junction boxes in new construction. It is not plastic,steel, or aluminum. It is a very solid type of recycled material stuff that will hold up longer to a heat source than the thin metal currently used in todays metal junction boxes. It is encapsulated with fiberglass or some type of fiber material. I can't seem to find any info on it sorry but go to your local store and see if you can find out what it is.

I am not going to argue that the spa electrical service boxes should be made of plastic rather than steel. Take a look at the service box for your house or disconnect for a spa... steel for sure, Granted that the spa electrical connection box is located inside the skirting and not exposed to outside elements, steel would still be superior to plastic or composite material.

[Roger]

I am not going to argue that the spa electrical service boxes should be made of plastic rather than steel. Take a look at the service box for your house or disconnect for a spa... steel for sure, Granted that the spa electrical connection box is located inside the skirting and not exposed to outside elements, steel would still be superior to plastic or composite material.

Ya see now this is perfect. If it was me and Jim dissagreeing it would turn into this big ole war about how he is so smart and I am such an idiot.

But with you spauser, I say you are allowed your opinion even if it is different from mine and its OK!!!!

[Jim_The_Jim]

This insane individual is now following my into other threads on water chemistry to hurl insults at me there. In one thread he was demanding to know how old I was! I think he was hoping I was a young kid with no experience. I happen to be in my 50's so that blows him out of the water (pun intended). He's like a computer virus....he just keeps infecting thread after thread after thread....

Insults? I called you arrogant and egotistical. Those are simply facts. And you also don't have much life experience.

That must really hurt. Where are the "boo hoo" smileys when you need them.

I must note that when people are hit with the truth about themselves, sometimes it does hurt. And it is good that it hurts. You need to get some humility and stop with all the high folutin BS to make yourself seem smart.

People will respond to you better if you are not trying to prove yourself. Just be helpful and not full of your pride.

[Stevie]

Insults? I called you arrogant and egotistical. Those are simply facts. And you also don't have much life experience.

That must really hurt. Where are the "boo hoo" smileys when you need them.

Well, it's good to know that you have NEVER been insulted on this forum! It's all simply FACTS!

I love how you come out from under your rock to judge others. In my experience with you, the complete opposite is usually true on your judement so in all actuallity waterbear, it's a compliment. I would just take it as such and not put a whole lot of thought into what this looney thinks...

[Jim_The_Jim]

Well, it's good to know that you have NEVER been insulted on this forum! It's all simply FACTS!

I love how you come out from under your rock to judge others. In my experience with you, the complete is usually true on your judement so in all actuallity waterbear, it's a compliment. I would just take it as such and not put a whole lot of thought into what this looney thinks...

This is the guy who calls my wife "garbage". You made an enemy for life with that one. There is no place that you can work where your employer is not going to read about you.

[Stevie]

This is the guy who calls my wife "garbage". You made an enemy for life with that one. There is no place that you can work where your employer is not going to read about you.

Get over it old man... and my intent wasn't to make life long friends with ya THAT'S for sure! I could care less what you think of me Jim and that's something you have NEVER been able to grasp.

Actually my new "contract" is with a company that has seen your BS for years and thinks you need mental help. Let me know if you want the address and contact person Puddin Head! LMAO!

Can you tell me that you're "calling the Feds" on me? You sound so manly when you say that and it gets me all hot... Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Jimmy.......

[Roger]

Get over it old man... and my intent wasn't to make life long friends with ya THAT'S for sure! I could care less what you think of me Jim and that's something you have NEVER been able to grasp.

Actually my new "contract" is with a company that has seen your BS for years and thinks you need mental help. Let me know if you want the address and contact person Puddin Head! LMAO!

Can you tell me that you're "calling the Feds" on me? You sound so manly when you say that and it gets me all hot... Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Jimmy.......

bump

[tumbleweed]

Nudge