Drinking In The Hot Tub

[biggz]

Now, I know we're all adults and we do what we want with the things we own, but I was thinking about drinking alcoholic beverages in the tub and the warnings against it. When my tub arrived, I noticed a warning label that was to be posted around the area where my tub was, warning people against using the tub while under the influence of alcohol or drugs and pregnant women from using the tub. I posted it up as instructed. Now I don't drink (except ice cold water) while I'm in the tub and I'm not knocking those who do, but I was thinking about guest that may come over to soak. They may want to drink before entering the tub or while in the tub. Should I look the other way or enforce the rules. I started thinking about my pool and having to either have a fence or a screen enclosure by law. It's the code that a pool owner in my area have one or the other else he could be in big trouble if a kid drowns in the pool. I figured that sign must have equal importance. Then I started thinking about all of the alcohol that they would be sweating into my tub. Would that throw my water into chaos? What really had me going though was, what if I allowed someone to knowingly soak under the influence and they got sick. Could I be held liable? All of this thinking got me drinking then I went to bed.

As always your responses are greatly appreciated.

Thanks Biggz

[stomper4x4]

Refreshing topic. Thanks.

I think you sure could be held liable. I know from what I've read that alcoholic beverages in the tub don't mix because the alcohol make it much easier to get overheated. People who are intoxicated can pass out easily. The body does not cool it self as well.

With that said I've done it. But I don't get in the tub smashed. I'm talking maybe 2 or 3 beers tops during a 30 minute soak. My guests never seem to go over that limit. Clearly it is not a good idea.

My GF lost a GF of hers that was smashed in a hot tub. She was alone in the tub and passed out. Drowned.

I think some people are able to control them self and other well be careless and run into problems.

[Roger]

though was, what if I allowed someone to knowingly soak under the influence and they got sick. Could I be held liable? All of this thinking got me drinking then I went to bed.

As always your responses are greatly appreciated.

Thanks Biggz

eeerp.......aummmm......erp. Don't worrby about it.

There's so many things you can be held liable for on your property as far as your guests are concerned, falling on your steps, cutting themselfs, branch falling out of a tree, walking up your driveway or side walk and twisting there ankle, bumping there head, hell the second they get on your property without a waiver you are responsible for an injury if your friends want to be jerks. If your friends are healthy or even you for that matter I would think you could choose for yourself if you want to drink and soak. Heck there has been many, many hundreds of drinking partys that a hot tub was involved in and I personaly have been involved in hundreds and I have never ever seen any problems with achohol. It's not like your going to have a few beers and then step into the tub and pass out. Everybody reactes different to hot bubbly water. Like I said I would choose and also let my guests choose what they think is right for them. Don't drink by yourself until you pass out and slide under water. Always drink with a friend that can keep your head up and pour more achohol in.

Make up a waiver form for them to sign...LOL

[TinyBubbles]

I would think the biggest concern would be someone slipping and falling when getting out of the spa. Luckily, my partying days are over, so I don't have to worry about this. If we drink in the spa we have one fruit flavored martini. If we are having dirty martinis, which are stronger, we wait until after tubbing. I was in a friend's spa several years ago and we were drinking champagne, rather heavily, and my friend stood up to get out of the spa and fell face first. I tend to get light-headed when I stand up after soaking, so I've been leary of drinking too much in the tub.

[Dr. Spa]

The concern is that with the temperature of the water, you tend to not feel the effects of the alcohol and risk, as 4x4 mentioned, passing out and drowning.

[IL Parrothead]

The easy answer, on legal liability, is if you cause the person to get hammered, or invite an obviously smashed person into your tub you could be held liable. Otherwise, soaker beware!

[Roger]

I would think the biggest concern would be someone slipping and falling when getting out of the spa. Luckily, my partying days are over, so I don't have to worry about this. If we drink in the spa we have one fruit flavored martini. If we are having dirty martinis, which are stronger, we wait until after tubbing. I was in a friend's spa several years ago and we were drinking champagne, rather heavily, and my friend stood up to get out of the spa and fell face first. I tend to get light-headed when I stand up after soaking, so I've been leary of drinking too much in the tub.

LOL..... I like to get a good jag on and jump out of the tub off the deck into the snowbank!! Wana talk sober up...LOL And this week we have had 13 inches on Saturday Sunday and 16 yesterday, with a few inches in between everyday. Nice and fluffy, makes for good naked snow angels after a long soak.

[jadi]

Then I started thinking about all of the alcohol that they would be sweating into my tub. Would that throw my water into chaos?

I don't think so. But if they throw up in your tub then.......hmmmm , it wll.

jadi

[RickJ]

What's the point of having a hot tub if you can't have a few drinks in it?

I regularly drink beer in my hot tub. In glass bottles, too. The trick is to only bring out a few for each person. Once we're in the tub, it's too dang cold to get out and run for more beer. We just drink what's there, and then switch to water or pop or whatever other beverage we've brought out.

I think the main thing is not to drink to excess. And don't drink alot if you're alone.

[Tom]

I was thinking about drinking alcoholic beverages in the tub and the warnings against it.

You'll see the warning on every hot tub and widely posted on hot tub-related sites. There are probably several reasons for those warnings.

For starters, I suspect that manufacturers post them for protection against liability, so that the customer cannot say, "nobody told me not to." You have been warned, so our legal @ss is covered.

While we can all recognize the danger of reaching a BAC of 0.25 and keeling face first into the tub, I'll interpret biggz' question to mean, "Is there some medical risk of moderate social drinking in the tub?"

Anecdotally, most of us would say "NO". We've had a couple of beers or glasses of wine and survived with no problem. Some of you may have had considerably more with the same happy survival rate.

Medically, what is the evidence? Unfortunately, most websites I found that discussed the effects of alcohol dealt with the medical or social effects of abuse or overuse. Few detailed the physical consequences of low consumption. I learned that Alcohol is a CNS depressant and vasodilator (opens the blood vessels and lowers blood pressure) and that hyperthermia can possibly exaggerate some of its effects. So medically, there may be some evidence that for some individuals, even low levels of BAC can make you dizzy enough to fall and clonk your skull, or to relax you enough that you slip under the water. Hmm.

You'll find an interesting letter here, and the abstract of one study showed that about 17% of 158 deaths in "spas, jacuzzis, or hot tubs" were related to alcohol. No indication of level of alcohol consumption in these deaths, but I'll bet they all involved a high BAC. That's 26 deaths in a single year out of how many million hot tubs in the USA? According to an intriguing site called Odds of Dying, your chances of death by falling in a bath tub were 1 in over 730,000 in the year 2004. No indication how many of those bathtubbers had had a drink or ten.

Google experts among you may be able to turn up some more evidence pro or con.

[B0Darc]

The temperature and the boost in circulation (jets) enhances the effects of alcohol. That means you could experience an uncomfortable woozieness after a lessor amount of alcohol than you are used to, making it somewhat harder to predict based on non-hottub drinking. Drinking in the hottub alone is obviously a bad plan, but then anyone pounding Tequila shooters alone in their hottub has more problems than we can deal with on a pool and spa forum.

If we are intent on altering our consciousness via distilled beverages while marathon hottubbing, we turn down the temp a couple degrees so we don't have to get out (99). We did same with another couple a couple weekends ago and we lasted 3 hours. Attempts to get out at about the half-way point were a failure (when we stopped mixing), but by then end of the 3 hours we had noticeably sobered up. While we were *very* relaxed, it seems like the hottub had sped up the entire buzz process... enhancing it's coming and going.

Discovering after 3 stiff drinks that you cannot get out of the tub is definitely risky (and frightening!) and not recommended unless under supervision by a "Designated Soaker" ...usually the strongest since in case of emergency they may have to drag your pickled behind out of there. So for any of you ~uninitiated~ spa-newbie-party-animals go SLOW. Your limit on dry land is NOT your limit in a hot tub! Always have a Designated Soaker <patent pending> and remember when it comes to the hot tub, Moderation may even be a little too much. ..ok everybody hug {{{poolspaforum}}}

[Roger]

The temperature and the boost in circulation (jets) enhances the effects of alcohol. That means you could experience an uncomfortable woozieness after a lessor amount of alcohol than you are used to, making it somewhat harder to predict based on non-hottub drinking. Drinking in the hottub alone is obviously a bad plan, but then anyone pounding Tequila shooters alone in their hottub has more problems than we can deal with on a pool and spa forum.

If we are intent on altering our consciousness via distilled beverages while marathon hottubbing, we turn down the temp a couple degrees so we don't have to get out (99). We did same with another couple a couple weekends ago and we lasted 3 hours. Attempts to get out at about the half-way point were a failure (when we stopped mixing), but by then end of the 3 hours we had noticeably sobered up. While we were *very* relaxed, it seems like the hottub had sped up the entire buzz process... enhancing it's coming and going.

Discovering after 3 stiff drinks that you cannot get out of the tub is definitely risky (and frightening!) and not recommended unless under supervision by a "Designated Soaker" ...usually the strongest since in case of emergency they may have to drag your pickled behind out of there. So for any of you ~uninitiated~ spa-newbie-party-animals go SLOW. Your limit on dry land is NOT your limit in a hot tub! Always have a Designated Soaker <patent pending> and remember when it comes to the hot tub, Moderation may even be a little too much. ..ok everybody hug {{{poolspaforum}}}

Ibll dwink to dat!! hick............

[billy sharpstick]

Now, I know we're all adults and we do what we want with the things we own, but I was thinking about drinking alcoholic beverages in the tub and the warnings against it. When my tub arrived, I noticed a warning label that was to be posted around the area where my tub was, warning people against using the tub while under the influence of alcohol or drugs and pregnant women from using the tub. . . .

i've been in many a hot tub drinking and with others who were. i haven't seen anyone yet who was seriously affected with the combination. nobody who was in reasonably good health anyway. a few weeks ago some friends were over for an informal dinner, winetasting and hot tub not necessarily in that order. one of our friends has a mild case of diabetes and with dinner and a few drinks and possibly too high a medication(he possibly needs it adjusted according to a nurse in our group), he went hypoglycemic while in the tub. he had to be helped out and attended to. if he had been alone, he could have been unable to leave the tub and possibly drowned. fortunately we had two nurses in our group who knew what to do. he had only had a couple drinks.

otherwise, i have no worries about partying in the tub.

that said, i am no longer allowed to use glass containers anymore. i have a nice plastic wine glass now that is perfectly adequate. (we make our own wine, too)

bill keiser

[itsallgood]

Can you say "moderation"?

I knew you could.

[IlliniFan]

RN here. As previously stated hot water dilates blood vessels, alcohol also dilates blood vessels. When you blood vessels are dilated, your blood pressure falls. When you are seated, this is not a huge issue.

When you stand, you blood pressure can/will fall even more. If you are sufficiently inebriated, the fall in BP plus cerebral depressant effect of alcohol can make you much more prone to passing out. Again moderation is the key and perhaps if going to have a little more than normal, turning down the temp a few degrees.

[TinyBubbles]

That's really scary Billy. I am glad that your friend is ok.

Illifan, thanks for weighing in as a medical professional. If alcohol and hottubbing both lower your bp, does it rise higher than normal after you get out of the tub, or just return to normal?

[B0Darc]

i've been in many a hot tub drinking and with others who were. i haven't seen anyone yet who was seriously affected with the combination. nobody who was in reasonably good health anyway. a few weeks ago some friends were over for an informal dinner, winetasting and hot tub not necessarily in that order. one of our friends has a mild case of diabetes and with dinner and a few drinks and possibly too high a medication(he possibly needs it adjusted according to a nurse in our group), he went hypoglycemic while in the tub. he had to be helped out and attended to. if he had been alone, he could have been unable to leave the tub and possibly drowned. fortunately we had two nurses in our group who knew what to do. he had only had a couple drinks.

otherwise, i have no worries about partying in the tub.

that said, i am no longer allowed to use glass containers anymore. i have a nice plastic wine glass now that is perfectly adequate. (we make our own wine, too)

bill keiser

New studies claim that hottubing can lower diabetic blood sugar. However I don't believe the hottub made your friends blood sugar go too low all on it's own. He also takes medication to lower it. That combined with drinking and perhaps not eating a sufficient amount between taking the medication and getting in the hottub can definitely be blamed. Low blood sugar clouds your ability to think and realize that indeed your blood sugar is low, and since you take oral types with meals he may have washed it down just prior with wine and cheese... not a meal

A couple of graham crackers and/or a small fruit juice would have probably sufficed, so next time don't panic. Actually if you asked him and his significant other they would reveal it happens with some regularity. My brother had juvenile diabetes ...and yes he should not get in the habit of hottubbing solo. He's probably a close friend so next time he comes over for wine and cheese make sure he eats some crackers too He may be newly on his meds and it takes alot of discipline to watch everything you eat and when you eat it. Scary tho!

[medic]

That's really scary Billy. I am glad that your friend is ok.

Illifan, thanks for weighing in as a medical professional. If alcohol and hottubbing both lower your bp, does it rise higher than normal after you get out of the tub, or just return to normal?

Tinybubbles,

illifan is correct. Spontaneous hypotension is very real and happens quite often. Have you ever became dizzy when you stood up too fast? As far as a rebound effect, it's not going to happen. Blood pressure spiking high requires a large Dopamine dump (A chemical produced by your body to help regulate B/P and also used in the medical field to increase B/P in patients who have critically low B/P) which only *normally* occurs with something like an adrenaline rush, trauma to your body, etc.. As far as getting out of the tub and your B/P rising higher than normal, it just won't happen. It's much more difficult for your body to raise the B/P than it is to drop it. I hope this helps.

Bill

Paramedic

[biggz]

Thank you all for posting your experiences with this sensitive subject. Maybe I won't be a party pooper and allow this behavior, but there's still the question of the sign that came with the tub. Should it be displayed for all to see by law? I currently have it displayed but I must admit, it makes the area appear very commercial. Is it a code violation if I don't display it? If my memory serves me correct I recall seeing them displayed in hotels. Thanks Biggz

[TinyBubbles]

Thanks for the info. medic, that's good to know.

Biggz, I have an update on this topic. My hubby and I have never had more than one drink in the tub. This past weekend we had another couple over that wanted to try out the hot tub. The man came in and slammed several vodka and redbulls, then started drinking beer when we got in the tub. He drank several of them while soaking, got out to use the bathroom and according to my hubby, made another vodka drink. When he got back in the tub, it made me a nervous wreck. Getting in and out of the tub under the best of circumstances can be a bit ackward, and with the alcohol in his system he wasn't exactly on top of his game. He got in and out a few times to use the bathroom or stand by the firepit. The next day my hubby and I mentioned how nervous this made us. My hubby said he could just envision him slipping and cracking his head open. Since I'm not really comfortable telling someone else how much to drink and he had his wife to drive him home, the best plan is for myself and hubby not to drink too much and stand next to people to help steady them getting in and out of the tub. After this weekend, I do believe this is an issue. As a homeowner, you can never be too careful.

[TinyBubbles]

Biggz, I forgot to address the issue of posting the warning sign. I am not a lawyer, so don't quote me, but..........you can not release yourself from a liability before it happens. For example, those waivers you sign before jetskiing, snowmobiling, etc. are useless. It does not protect the people renting you the equipment from liability. They just hope that someone remembers signing the form and assumes that they can't do anything. Working in the pool industry, you deal with liability quite a bit. If someone dives off a 2-story deck into a 4-ft deep above ground pool and breaks their neck, guess who's responsible? The pool builder. Isn't that ridiculous? From what I understand, the fact that the pool had stickers on it that say "do not dive", did not protect the pool builder or the manufacturer. I'm sure laws could vary from state to state. I could play devil's advocate on both sides of the issue. Side one, you were concerned enough to post the sign and warn others, therefore, you placed the burden on them. Side two, you knew that drinking in the hot tub was dangerous, which is why you put out the sign, yet you allowed someone to drink anyways. As homeowners, we are damned if we do, damned if we don't. We had a good friend that owned a large peice of property with a lake on it. He had "no trespassing" signs placed around the perimeter of the property. One day a teenager wandered onto the property anyways, got into the lake and somehow got stuck in an overflow culvert. The man heard the boy screaming and pulled him out of the culvert. In doing so, he dislocated the boys shoulder and was promptly sued by the boy's family. They won! Didn't even matter that the boy was trespassing on property that was clearly marked, no trespassing.

[IL Parrothead]

Actually (and I am a lawyer), you can limit your liability before something happens. Warning signs are a good start. But -- in the same vein as not wanting to appear commercial -- your supervision of your guests and not filling their gullet with booze or letting them get in the tub if they're sloshed can help quite a bit as well.

[B0Darc]

Actually (and I am a lawyer), you can limit your liability before something happens. Warning signs are a good start. But -- in the same vein as not wanting to appear commercial -- your supervision of your guests and not filling their gullet with booze or letting them get in the tub if they're sloshed can help quite a bit as well.

I concur, sir. I posted the "...pregnant women should not soak..." sign along with an additional "..no tazers or blowdryers in the hottub [with the international lightning bolt symbol], and I have another one... "Welcome to my S_A... notice there's no P ...let's keep it that way"

what?

[TinyBubbles]

Actually (and I am a lawyer), you can limit your liability before something happens. Warning signs are a good start. But -- in the same vein as not wanting to appear commercial -- your supervision of your guests and not filling their gullet with booze or letting them get in the tub if they're sloshed can help quite a bit as well.

We are all in a pretty good spot here, getting advice from both medical and legal professionals. I guess it would get way to complex to explain why we can only limit and not release ourselves from liability. I agree that it would be best to limit your guest's alcohol consumption, but gosh that can get sticky. It's especially hard to tell an adult they can't drink anymore when they have a designated driver and they brought their own alcohol. I guess we could take the passive way out and simply say the spa is not working. I'm such a coward.

[RickJ]

I'm not a lawyer, but that never stopped me from babbling on about subjects that I know nothing about.

I think the sign is more about protecting the spa manufacturer than it is about protecting the homeowner. By giving you the sign, the manufacturer can say that they warned you of the dangers of drinking and tubbing. So it gives them a small legal leg to stand on. Post it, don't post it, it's your choice. But even if it's posted, and you allow people to drink while in the tub, then you could be held liable because you allowed the drinking.

Bottom line, don't get too drunk in the tub. And only let close friends in that you know won't try to sue you if anything happens. (I guess that might put a damper on some of your all strangers invited hot tub orgys, sorry.)