Aroma Therapy

[biggz]

I was wondering if the forum had any experience with "Aroma Therapy" and it's benefits. I was reading some of the labels on those fancy bottles of scented water and wondered if they offered the same therapy as some of the salt products (dead sea salts, epsom salts, etc.). Does using the salts increase the chlorine levels in the tub? How long does the scent linger before having to add more? Can you change the scents without having to change the water? Is it worth the money? Oh yes, I forgot what's your favorite? Your input is always appreciated.

[Lucien]

Are you a mind reader? I have all the same questions . I used to go to a friend's redwood tub, and he added 10lbs of baking soda and 10 lbs of epsom salts to the water. It was wonderful. Just totally drained any tension from the body. My additional questions would be is there any effect on the motor or the vinyl liner (Softub)?

[Roger]

Are you a mind reader? I have all the same questions . I used to go to a friend's redwood tub, and he added 10lbs of baking soda and 10 lbs of epsom salts to the water. It was wonderful. Just totally drained any tension from the body. My additional questions would be is there any effect on the motor or the vinyl liner (Softub)?

I think hot water is very relaxing, hot bubbling water is very relaxing. Anything YOU can add to the experience that helps YOU is very relaxing. Are there any tangible benifits? There is to YOU if YOU feel there is. YOU need what YOU need to relieve the stress in YOUR life. If salts and aroma do that for YOU then by all means it is benificial.

On the other hand there may be those who feel it is a waste of money as there is only speculative evidence of there benifits. A warm summer breeze can be very benifitial also.

[TinyBubbles]

I love, love, love, love aromatherapy. Did I mention that I love aromatherapy? We have been using the liquid stuff. If you don't want to put anything in the water, here's another suggestion....candles. Since we are using the liquid scents, I've just been hosing my filters off more often, just in case. So far, there hasn't been any effect on the water chemistry. I haven't actually seen salts made for a spa. The liquids say to add them with every use, but I find that you don't need to. Even with super chlorinating the tub for a trip, I still smell the plumeria from before we left. Thanks, now I want to go home and soak!

[biggz]

Are you a mind reader? I have all the same questions . I used to go to a friend's redwood tub, and he added 10lbs of baking soda and 10 lbs of epsom salts to the water. It was wonderful. Just totally drained any tension from the body. My additional questions would be is there any effect on the motor or the vinyl liner (Softub)?

I think hot water is very relaxing, hot bubbling water is very relaxing. Anything YOU can add to the experience that helps YOU is very relaxing. Are there any tangible benifits? There is to YOU if YOU feel there is. YOU need what YOU need to relieve the stress in YOUR life. If salts and aroma do that for YOU then by all means it is benificial.

On the other hand there may be those who feel it is a waste of money as there is only speculative evidence of there benifits. A warm summer breeze can be very benifitial also.

'Roger', I agree that it's probably a personal preference. My question deals with enhancing the hot tub experience beyond jets and bubbles. Can certain aromas help with breathing or certain salts help blood circulation? Can you actually make the water appear warmer using these additives? Will adding salt products effect the chlorine balance in the tub? Should you even use these salts? I've tried a product that added a very nice scent, but if I want to change the scent should I drain the tub?

Lucien's suggestion of a friend that added 10lbs of baking soda and 10 lbs of epsom salts to the water sounds pretty good to me.

[RickJ]

Here's an article from another site that lists the advantages of different scents.

http://www.poolandspa.com/page556.htm

I've used a few different scents in my hot tub. I have no problem changing between scents. just wait for the old scent to fade (usually a day or two) and then add the new scent.

My favorite scent is a Cedarwood scent. I'm not much for the flowery products. But it's all personal choice.

My only complaint with scented oils is that my tub tends to start foaming more after I've used them for a while. I'm not sure if it's because of the brand that I use, or just because I need to clean my filters more often.

[TinyBubbles]

Hey Biggz, no need to drain the tub. If you want to change scents, just dump a new one in. I wonder if salts would clog your filters? I know that the product to raise your alkalinity can. I would probably dissolve them in a bucket of water first if you are going to use them. Baking soda would be a no no, unless you wanted to raise your calcium hardness. I love anything with lavender, it's very relaxing. Vanilla, I'm not too crazy about, although it's supposed to make men feel "frisky". Anything with peppermint is supposed to be invigorating. I would assume that eucalyptus could help breathing. I don't think they are a waste of money because they make me happy. I think that's what hot tubbing is all about. I would probably stick with products made for spas and stay away from anything else.

[kengorman]

Baking soda would be a no no, unless you wanted to raise your calcium hardness.

I don't think baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) would raise calcium hardness. It will, however, raise alkalinity and ph.

Calcium chloride will raise calcium hardness levels.

Regards,

Ken

[Neil & Holly]

I was wondering if the forum had any experience with "Aroma Therapy" and it's benefits. I was reading some of the labels on those fancy bottles of scented water and wondered if they offered the same therapy as some of the salt products (dead sea salts, epsom salts, etc.). Does using the salts increase the chlorine levels in the tub? How long does the scent linger before having to add more? Can you change the scents without having to change the water? Is it worth the money? Oh yes, I forgot what's your favorite? Your input is always appreciated.

We have aroma therapy on our tub & its pretty cool,I really want to try some of my deer hunting scents say like DOE IN HEAT or maybe ESTRUS DOE URINE but the mrs. says no!

[In The Bubble]

I was wondering if the forum had any experience with "Aroma Therapy" and it's benefits. I was reading some of the labels on those fancy bottles of scented water and wondered if they offered the same therapy as some of the salt products (dead sea salts, epsom salts, etc.). Does using the salts increase the chlorine levels in the tub? How long does the scent linger before having to add more? Can you change the scents without having to change the water? Is it worth the money? Oh yes, I forgot what's your favorite? Your input is always appreciated.

My better half owns a day spa and she uses aroma therapy in her work. The essential oils envigorate the body during massage so we decided to incorporate them in our tub. It IS a wonderful addition to the tubbing experience.

Glad to hear so many others have enjoyed it as well. I was actually expecting SOMEBODY to start in on how bad it is for the filters or something like that....glad to see no negative comments so far.

[Tom]

I was wondering if the forum had any experience with "Aroma Therapy" and it's benefits. I was reading some of the labels on those fancy bottles of scented water and wondered if they offered the same therapy as some of the salt products (dead sea salts, epsom salts, etc.).

We have used the liquids and while they didn't do anything for me, the wife liked them. We wound up with candles in the end, though.

Interesting discussion of epsom salts here

[In The Bubble]

[interesting discussion of epsom salts here

Apparently I don't have clearance to read that one. I'll make up my own story about Epsom Salts. I'll share it with you all later.

[kengorman]

I used to go to a friend's redwood tub, and he added 10lbs of baking soda and 10 lbs of epsom salts to the water.

My additional questions would be is there any effect on the motor or the vinyl liner (Softub)?

Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate. Adding this to your spa water will increase the total hardness of your water and may contribute to scale build-up or cloudy water. If you live in an area where the water is already hard, I wouldn't recommend adding epsom salts.

A little blurb on hard water found here.

Hardness refers to the presence of dissolved minerals such as calcium and magnesium in either bicarbonate or sulfate form and is expressed as an equivalent of calcium carbonate. It measures the tendency of water to precipitate soap and form scale.

Ken

[Jake the dog man]

We have tried a few over the years and I think the aromatherapy crystals work out better then the oils. I don't care for many of the smells, but there are a few I like. I've have always been surprised that chocolate scented baths don't seem to be available.

[biggz]

Well so far we've come up with 3 possible solutions to add fragrances to our tubs. Spa specific products ("inSPAration Wellness", "Spazazz" crystals etc.), oils and salts (bath salts, epsom salts, dead sea) that are suppose to award the user with a more enriched hot tub experience.

We also mentioned some rather interesting scents like Plumeria, Cedarwood, Lavender even Doe in heat. I'm not sure about the last one but it was mentioned in this thread. I resently bought a scented product that's suppose to have Dead sea salts and other natural ingredients. I noticed that all of these products claim to give some euphoric sensations but I couldn't find any information on the ingredients used in the products designed specifically for the hot tub industry. I did however notice the price was much higher. They had names like "Energy", "Warmth", "Refresh" or "Calming", "Peaceful", and "Youthful" without giving a real explanation as to how this is acheived. Does anyone know what the active ingredients are in these products and how they acheive what they claim. You see, I would like to compare them to the salt products that I found to be in abundance that claim to do the same things but also explains the benefits of the different mixtures used by listing the contents. see link:

http://www.saltworks.us/salt_info/si_Balneotherapy.asp

[BrianBNM]

I prefer the warm smell of Cohiba or any other fine hand selected smoke out of the humi.

[Jim_The_Jim]

Are you a mind reader? I have all the same questions . I used to go to a friend's redwood tub, and he added 10lbs of baking soda and 10 lbs of epsom salts to the water. It was wonderful. Just totally drained any tension from the body. My additional questions would be is there any effect on the motor or the vinyl liner (Softub)?

That much baking soda will drop out most of the calcium from the water and any ions. Calcium will cake on the heater and basically ruin it. It deposits on to the jets and plugs the air on acrylic spas.

[Roger]

Does anyone know what the active ingredients are in these products and how they acheive what they claim. You see, I would like to compare them to the salt products that I found to be in abundance that claim to do the same things but also explains the benefits of the different mixtures used by listing the contents. see link:

http://www.saltworks.us/salt_info/si_Balneotherapy.asp

The calming and soothing is done at the plant that makes the stuff. You and a whole bunch of other people give them your money and they get calmer and more soothed by it. It's a proven fact. They invest like a nickle a package for there salt and aroma stuff and you pay like 10-20 bucks and they sit back and relax while more people buy it, very soothing..

[biggz]

Does anyone know what the active ingredients are in these products and how they acheive what they claim. You see, I would like to compare them to the salt products that I found to be in abundance that claim to do the same things but also explains the benefits of the different mixtures used by listing the contents. see link:

http://www.saltworks.us/salt_info/si_Balneotherapy.asp

The calming and soothing is done at the plant that makes the stuff. You and a whole bunch of other people give them your money and they get calmer and more soothed by it. It's a proven fact. They invest like a nickle a package for there salt and aroma stuff and you pay like 10-20 bucks and they sit back and relax while more people buy it, very soothing..

Well so far we've come up with 3 possible solutions to add fragrances to our tubs. Spa specific products ("inSPAration Wellness", "Spazazz" crystals etc.), oils and salts (bath salts, epsom salts, dead sea) that are suppose to award the user with a more enriched hot tub experience.

We also mentioned some rather interesting scents like Plumeria, Cedarwood, Lavender even Doe in heat. I'm not sure about the last one but it was mentioned in this thread. I resently bought a scented product that's suppose to have Dead sea salts and other natural ingredients. I noticed that all of these products claim to give some euphoric sensations but I couldn't find any information on the ingredients used in the products designed specifically for the hot tub industry. I did however notice the price was much higher. They had names like "Energy", "Warmth", "Refresh" or "Calming", "Peaceful", and "Youthful" without giving a real explanation as to how this is acheived. Does anyone know what the active ingredients are in these products and how they acheive what they claim. You see, I would like to compare them to the salt products that I found to be in abundance that claim to do the same things but also explains the benefits of the different mixtures used by listing the contents. see link:

http://www.saltworks.us/salt_info/si_Balneotherapy.asp

Please respond to any potential draw backs of salt usage. Thanks

[TinyBubbles]

Baking soda would be a no no, unless you wanted to raise your calcium hardness.

I don't think baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) would raise calcium hardness. It will, however, raise alkalinity and ph.

Calcium chloride will raise calcium hardness levels.

Regards,

Ken

Good eye Ken, I meant to say it would raise your alkalinity.

[Tom]

[interesting discussion of epsom salts here

Apparently I don't have clearance to read that one. I'll make up my own story about Epsom Salts. I'll share it with you all later.

Sorry, I missed part of the link. Try again.

[TinyBubbles]

Is this guy saying he used no sanitizer, just put epsom salt in his spa? EWWWWWWWWW

[chem geek]

I want to chime in on this discussion in terms of the chemistry. Epsom Salt is Magnesium Sulfate hydrated with 7 water. It is true that adding Epsom Salt to the water will increase Total Hardness, but it does not increase Calcium Hardness and is unlikely to lead to scaling unless a huge amount of salt is added. The reason is that Magnesium Carbonate is over 2000 times more soluble than Calcium Carbonate so it is Calcium Hardness that is important in determining the tendency to scale, not Total Hardness. Magnesium scale is an issue in very alkaline environments as Magnesium Hydroxide will precipitate, but this is not an issue at the pH of pools and spas. The problems with "hard" water, which include both Calcium and Magnesium, are not only with scaling (from Calcium) but also from these minerals preventing soap from dispersing and sudsing (and therefore cleaning). In fact, if your water is too soft, so is too low in magnesium and calcium, then your spa can have foaming and the easiest way to solve that is to add some Calcium Chloride to increase Calcium Hardness to around 100-150 ppm.

While one could add Epsom Salt to a spa, you can get a similar effect by simply adding plain table salt, Sodium Chloride and avoid not only the Magnesium, but also the Sulfate (though you add a lot of sulfate anyway from MPS shock and dry acid). As for adding salt, look at this thread and make sure you use a pure salt that does not have additives. Some water softener salt has additives, but solar salt and pool salt usually do not. In order to have the "feel" of more silky skin, etc., most people need to have 1000-1500 ppm salt. You need to test your water for the salt level first since it usually has some salt in it already (the salt tests measure chloride, but report it as ppm sodium chloride) especially if you added any calcium chloride (for the rare plaster spa). Assuming you are starting with minimal salt, then it takes 68 ounces weight (4.2 pounds) of salt in 350 gallons to raise the level to 1000 ppm.

The main downside to the higher salt level is a slightly increased level of corrosion, but the level of salt we are talking about here is still less than half that in saltwater chlorine generator (SWG) pools which typically have 3000 ppm salt. Nevertheless, if your gas heater uses a copper heat exchanger, then it would be safer to avoid the extra sodium choride salt. Newer or more expensive gas heaters using titanium, copper-nickel or similar corrosion-resistant materials in their heat exchangers should have no problem with the higher salt level.

Another salt-like alternative is to use 30-50 ppm Borates which you can add from 20 Mule Team Borax. Some have reported that this gives the water a crystal sparkling clarity and also feels smoother on the skin, though I think that the regular salt is probably closer to the bath salts feel. It takes 21 ounces weight (1.3 pounds) of 20 Mule Team Borax plus 13 ounces weight of dry acid (sodium bisulfate) or 10 fluid ounces of Muriatic Acid (31.45% Hydrochloric Acid) in 350 gallons to raise the level to 50 ppm. Borax is a base which is why you need to add acid to compensate, but be sure to add the Borax to the water first, then the acid, though you can split the dosage and go back and forth (i.e. 10 ounces Borax, 6 ounces acid, then 11 ounces Borax, 7 ounces acid).

As for aroma compounds, these are organics and though generally you don't want to add such things to your spa water, the quantities are so small and their aromatic nature makes them so volatile that they won't last. They will either outgas or breakdown (get oxidized) from chlorine or non-chlorine shock (MPS). You don't want to add large amounts of oils or other organic substances since those could build up, but a small amount of aromatic perfume should not be a problem. I suppose there is some small risk of chlorinating some aroma compound creating a substance that is harmful, but again if the quantities are very small then this risk should be low. Remember that ammonia combined with chlorine creates compounds that can lead to respiratory problems and methane combined with chlorine creates chloroform so certain chlorinated compounds are hazardous.

Richard

[biggz]

I want to chime in on this discussion in terms of the chemistry. Epsom Salt is Magnesium Sulfate hydrated with 7 water. It is true that adding Epsom Salt to the water will increase Total Hardness, but it does not increase Calcium Hardness and is unlikely to lead to scaling unless a huge amount of salt is added. The reason is that Magnesium Carbonate is over 2000 times more soluble than Calcium Carbonate so it is Calcium Hardness that is important in determining the tendency to scale, not Total Hardness. Magnesium scale is an issue in very alkaline environments as Magnesium Hydroxide will precipitate, but this is not an issue at the pH of pools and spas. The problems with "hard" water, which include both Calcium and Magnesium, are not only with scaling (from Calcium) but also from these minerals preventing soap from dispersing and sudsing (and therefore cleaning). In fact, if your water is too soft, so is too low in magnesium and calcium, then your spa can have foaming and the easiest way to solve that is to add some Calcium Chloride to increase Calcium Hardness to around 100-150 ppm.

While one could add Epsom Salt to a spa, you can get a similar effect by simply adding plain table salt, Sodium Chloride and avoid not only the Magnesium, but also the Sulfate (though you add a lot of sulfate anyway from MPS shock and dry acid). As for adding salt, look at this thread and make sure you use a pure salt that does not have additives. Some water softener salt has additives, but solar salt and pool salt usually do not. In order to have the "feel" of more silky skin, etc., most people need to have 1000-1500 ppm salt. You need to test your water for the salt level first since it usually has some salt in it already (the salt tests measure chloride, but report it as ppm sodium chloride) especially if you added any calcium chloride (for the rare plaster spa). Assuming you are starting with minimal salt, then it takes 68 ounces weight (4.2 pounds) of salt in 350 gallons to raise the level to 1000 ppm.

The main downside to the higher salt level is a slightly increased level of corrosion, but the level of salt we are talking about here is still less than half that in saltwater chlorine generator (SWG) pools which typically have 3000 ppm salt. Nevertheless, if your gas heater uses a copper heat exchanger, then it would be safer to avoid the extra sodium choride salt. Newer or more expensive gas heaters using titanium, copper-nickel or similar corrosion-resistant materials in their heat exchangers should have no problem with the higher salt level.

Another salt-like alternative is to use 30-50 ppm Borates which you can add from 20 Mule Team Borax. Some have reported that this gives the water a crystal sparkling clarity and also feels smoother on the skin, though I think that the regular salt is probably closer to the bath salts feel. It takes 21 ounces weight (1.3 pounds) of 20 Mule Team Borax plus 13 ounces weight of dry acid (sodium bisulfate) or 10 fluid ounces of Muriatic Acid (31.45% Hydrochloric Acid) in 350 gallons to raise the level to 50 ppm. Borax is a base which is why you need to add acid to compensate, but be sure to add the Borax to the water first, then the acid, though you can split the dosage and go back and forth (i.e. 10 ounces Borax, 6 ounces acid, then 11 ounces Borax, 7 ounces acid).

As for aroma compounds, these are organics and though generally you don't want to add such things to your spa water, the quantities are so small and their aromatic nature makes them so volatile that they won't last. They will either outgas or breakdown (get oxidized) from chlorine or non-chlorine shock (MPS). You don't want to add large amounts of oils or other organic substances since those could build up, but a small amount of aromatic perfume should not be a problem. I suppose there is some small risk of chlorinating some aroma compound creating a substance that is harmful, but again if the quantities are very small then this risk should be low. Remember that ammonia combined with chlorine creates compounds that can lead to respiratory problems and methane combined with chlorine creates chloroform so certain chlorinated compounds are hazardous.

Richard

Richard, The question came up in another thread that the use of aroma therapeutic salts, Epsom salt or Borax may clog the hot tub filter and alter the water balance. Can this be avoided since the benefits of these products appear to be substantial?

[chem geek]

The salts will not clog up the filter (unless there is calcium carbonate over-saturation which could cause scaling everywhere). Some of them will affect water balance and I'll write about that in a moment. It is the "essential oils" and similar organics that are more likely to clog up a filter IF there is a clarifier in the water or suspended particles that the oil can attach to. Some oils may break down from oxidation by the chlorine while others will be more resistant and will stay as residue in the filter. So generally speaking, I would avoid the "essential oils" portion unless you want to clean your filter more frequently or possibly shock more often with a non-chlorine shock.

As for the minerals / salts that are added, they each affect water balance in a different way. The main thing to worry about is adding too much calcium and carbonate (bicarbonate from baking soda) as that combination, if too high, will cause scaling. The Epsom salt, which is magnesium sulfate, is more innocuous as I've said in other posts, but I think that plain table salt, sodium chloride, is a better choice and you can have a relatively high concentration, 1000-1500 ppm, without serious side effects (note my earlier discussion about copper heat exchangers, however) though you could certainly use both (keeping total dissolved solids about the same). The Borates at a level of 30-50 ppm (measured as ppm Boron) are also reasonable. Just don't have a dog drink from the water every day as that level of Borates is near the lowest threshold of first symptoms (this is more of an issue for pools, obviously). You can check the Borates level using AquaCheck test strips and can also test the salt level with similar test strips -- Borates and salt level are one of the few parameters that can be accurately tested with test strips. All the others, pH, FC, CC, TA, CYA, CH, are better tested using liquid tests ("count the drops" FAS-DPD for the chlorine tests).

Though there's a lot of pseudo-science revolving around the use of salts in bath water, the main benefit comes from having a high concentration of salt and therefore a lower concentration of water. The choice of salt is less relevant so since the plain table salt, sodium chloride, is the most innocuous, it's a decent choice. The main effect of being in saltier water is that there is less osmosis which means that there is less movement of water into your skin. Tears have a salt content of around 9000 ppm and other bodily fluids near the skin are similar. When your skin wrinkles, it isn't that it gets dried out, but rather that it gets water-logged -- the higher concentration of water you are sitting in flows into your body until there is a pressure difference that counters this effect. This is also why eyes in more pure water feel pressure. At the other extreme, in ocean salt water which is close to 35,000 ppm, the effect is the opposite where water leaves your body and when this happens in your eyes, it stings (there are other interactions with specific ions I won't get into here). Unfortunately, salt water at 9000 ppm combined with a residual of chlorine or other oxidizer would be too corrosive to metal though the use of Cyanuric Acid (CYA) helps to minimize this (by reducing the hypochlorous acid concentration).

Richard