Old Hot Springs spa

[Ken in Kansas]

I have an o-l-d  Hot Springs spa - manufactured (according to notations inside the pump area) 2/5/1987.  I bought it second hand and it functioned great.  A few (5-7) years ago, the cover decided to disintegrate and I quit using the spa.  This was in the winter in Kansas.  I drained the spa with the intent to replace/repair the cover the next spring.

As often is the case, the repair/replacement of the cover never happened.  This spring, we decided to put our house on the market and move closer to the grandchildren.  Naturally, having a working spa would add value to the house so I decided to see if it was in working order.

The insulation around the heater had deteriorated so I replaced that with expandable foam (after removing the heater from the spa), cut it to shape, wrapped the heater with metallic tape and reinstalled it.  I cleaned the tub and filter.  I filled the tub (after replacing the drain cap which had been left off since draining) and started the jets.  Wonder of wonder, after sitting idle all those years, the pump worked and began pushing water through the jets.  It also started pushing water through numerous leaks in the pump!  I have since pretty much stopped all the jet pump leaks and have not noticed any others in the spa.

Now, however, I am having issues with the heater/circulating pump.  When I set the thermostat at the midway point (5 on my dial), I can hear the circulation pump start to work.  Checking the pump one hour after starting it, I found it to still be working.  Checking the pump after two hours, I found that it had stopped and the system (circulation pump, jets pump and heater) were electrically "dead" - nothing worked.  I have done this several times as the spa/electronics seem to come back to life after several hours and pushing of reset buttons.

On one occasion I was able to get it to last 5-6 hours by:

1. Setting the thermostat to its lowest (i.e.  the point where the "relay" first clicks on)
2. Checking it and running the jets for several minutes on an hourly basis
3. Increasing the thermostat each time it was checked

It finally "died" once the maximum thermostat setting was reached.  Usually, however, it "dies" somewhere within one and two hours of starting.

I had a GFI outlet with reset buttons installed when I first put the spa in place.  Each time it comes back to life, the GFI reset and spa reset buttons have been pressed.  At this point, however, I don't know if the spa is causing its own "death" or if the GFI is the culprit nor do I have the knowledge of how to test/determine that.

Any suggestions/ideas/advice/instructions would be appreciated.  (Or maybe I'm just "beating a dead horse".)

Thanks in advance.

Ken in Kansas

[RDspaguy]

On 8/21/2023 at 11:50 AM, Ken in Kansas said:

Naturally, having a working spa would add value to the house

Not really. It adds value for buyers who want it, but for most it is an added problem and potential expense. At that age, I'd recommend you get rid of it, and I'm sure your realtor will agree.

On 8/21/2023 at 11:50 AM, Ken in Kansas said:

have since pretty much stopped all the jet pump leaks and have not noticed any others in the spa.

That's because it's full foam, but I guarantee, based on 26 years fixing these, that if you froze the pump you froze the plumbing. Get rid of it. Not even remotely worth the expense. I sold one of those last year for $800. You are not adding any value with that antique.

On 8/21/2023 at 11:50 AM, Ken in Kansas said:

spa/electronics seem to come back to life after several hours and pushing of reset buttons.

Parts haven't been available for 20 years. Junk it.

On 8/21/2023 at 11:50 AM, Ken in Kansas said:

Or maybe I'm just "beating a dead horse".)

⭐️

[Ken in Kansas]

Thanks, RD.  Pretty much what I expected in the final analysis.

My actions a few years back made sure it was FUBAR.  So now a decent burial (in a ravine on a farm owned by a friend) and a few parting words (none of which can be included here) said over the "body" then on to bigger and better things.

Again, your input is appreciated.

Ken in Kansas

[CanadianSpaTech]

1 hour ago, Ken in Kansas said:

in a ravine on a farm

Really... No wonder Kansas is such an s hole...Just kidding I'm from Canada and the only thing I know about Kansas is that's where Dorthey lived...lol

[Mike223]

Unless I missed the part where it still leaks, it could be worth a new circulation pump. However if one of your old school mechanical thermostats with the fluid filled capillaries goes out, those are near impossible to find. Regarding it being “dead” - if the circ pump seized and the heater/spa overheated, you tripped a hi-limit. Look for red buttons on the side of the control box. Try pressing them in. Reset your GFCI. If that’s original, replace it too.

 

This stuff is only possibly worth doing if the spa holds water at least in a sitting condition.

[Ken in Kansas]

On 8/26/2023 at 8:43 AM, CanadianSpaTech said:

Really... No wonder Kansas is such an s hole...Just kidding I'm from Canada and the only thing I know about Kansas is that's where Dorthey lived...lol

Yes, Toto and Dorothy lived on the farm which may be the final resting place for the spa.  Perhaps another tornado will relocate it at some point in time.

Only thing I know about Canada is how it was named.  Seems the folks living there could not agree on a name so they all got together and drew letters from a cloth bag containing all the letters of the alphabet, announcing each letter as it was drawn.  It went like this - (first letter drawn) "C, eh?"; (second letter drawn) "N, eh?"; (third letter drawn) "D, eh?".  Thus their country was named!  😄🤪  (A Canadian gentleman told me that story at a music festival I attended several years ago.)

Ken in Kansas

[Ken in Kansas]

Thanks for the response, Mike.

Yes, the spa appears to hold water when filled and allowed to sit.  I will check that once more before disposing of it.  Can the circulation pump be tested outside of the spa to see if it is seizing?

While searching this forum for information before posting my question, I did find mention of the capillaries in another Hot Springs post.  Perhaps I can re-read that for possible "enlightenment"

Ken in Kansas

[Cusser]

My own 1988 CalSpa is still chugging along.  But it's in Phoenix AZ and has never frozen, and it's been mine since new, and I'm the only maintainer/repairer.  No digital displays, very simple electronics, never has frozen....and no 104F requirement...

Its air blower system is not currently operational, don't know if it's a bad "air button", electrics, or bad blower motor, but I never really used that other to aerate/cool down the water.

[Mike223]

3 hours ago, Ken in Kansas said:

Thanks for the response, Mike.

Yes, the spa appears to hold water when filled and allowed to sit.  I will check that once more before disposing of it.  Can the circulation pump be tested outside of the spa to see if it is seizing?

While searching this forum for information before posting my question, I did find mention of the capillaries in another Hot Springs post.  Perhaps I can re-read that for possible "enlightenment"

Ken in Kansas

Your control box sends (or should send) ~120VAC to your circulation pump.  Same as what is at a house outlet.  If you are comfortable working with electricity, you can unplug the circ pump from the control box and supply it with power directly from another source.  Do this at your own comfort level.  I do these things routinely but I am a technician.  If your circ pump is original it may very well be seized, intermittently working, or just barley working on life support, essentially.  New pumps are part number 74427 and a few hundred bucks on average.  Good luck

[Ken in Kansas]

Thanks again, Mike.  I am filling the tub, as I write this, to check again for leaks.  I will let it stand for several days (not like it's being used extensively, you know 😉) and see what the status is at that point.

I am comfortable working with electricity and make certain I don't go beyond my knowledge level.  I am also very comfortable with a VOM so can check voltage at the box, also.  I will try your suggestion to "power up" the pump "stand-alone" and will get back to you with results.

I very well may end up as RDspaguy predicted, but I enjoy reasonable challenges.

Ken in Kansas

[Mike223]

On 8/29/2023 at 11:51 AM, Ken in Kansas said:

Thanks again, Mike.  I am filling the tub, as I write this, to check again for leaks.  I will let it stand for several days (not like it's being used extensively, you know 😉) and see what the status is at that point.

I am comfortable working with electricity and make certain I don't go beyond my knowledge level.  I am also very comfortable with a VOM so can check voltage at the box, also.  I will try your suggestion to "power up" the pump "stand-alone" and will get back to you with results.

I very well may end up as RDspaguy predicted, but I enjoy reasonable challenges.

Ken in Kansas

Where’s my update, Ken in Kansas? You work for me now haha, kidding. 

[Ken in Kansas]

G-e-e-e-z, Mike, what a slave driver!  I thought I would at least have the Labor Day weekend off!  😜

Here is your update, however.  Tub has been full for three days now - no leaks, the water level is not going down.  I ran the jets just to make sure that there would be water in all the plumbing.

Connected the circulation pump to an independent electrical source (an extension cord running to an outside outlet) and ran it for 24 hours.  It appears to be running although somewhat hot to the touch.  I can hear gurgling noises and feel a vibration when touching the pump.  The noises and vibration stopped when I disconnected the pump this morning.  The rest of the spa is electrically "off" (i.e. no heat, no jets) and has been since starting the "full tub/independent circulation pump tests".

Over to you.

Ken in Kansas

[Mike223]

4 hours ago, Ken in Kansas said:

G-e-e-e-z, Mike, what a slave driver!  I thought I would at least have the Labor Day weekend off!  😜

Here is your update, however.  Tub has been full for three days now - no leaks, the water level is not going down.  I ran the jets just to make sure that there would be water in all the plumbing.

Connected the circulation pump to an independent electrical source (an extension cord running to an outside outlet) and ran it for 24 hours.  It appears to be running although somewhat hot to the touch.  I can hear gurgling noises and feel a vibration when touching the pump.  The noises and vibration stopped when I disconnected the pump this morning.  The rest of the spa is electrically "off" (i.e. no heat, no jets) and has been since starting the "full tub/independent circulation pump tests".

Over to you.

Ken in Kansas

I would verify none of your hi-limit resets have popped.  Red buttons on the side of the black control box.  I would also replace that circulation pump IF the spa is able to heat.  That pump is likely tired and barely keeping up if it's original.  Your heater should draw somewhere between 8-12 amps when ti is actively heating.  I use am amp clamp to check amperage readings.  Again, at your skill and comfort level.  Make sure your heat dial is turned up so it "calls" for heat.  Not a tone more I can help with without being there.  You're on the right track.  The problem lies where the power dies.  

 

Lastly, you may have a door interlock switch that will kill power to the entire equipment compartment when the door is opened.  Those interlock switches are relics of the past and not needed.  I always bypass them without issue.  If it has one and it has not been bypassed kill the power, strip the wires back and test them together with a wire nut or something else appropriate.  You have now safely bypassed that switch and the spa can be worked on while running with the door open.  Lots of free help here, Ken.  You better not screw this up.  lol

[Ken in Kansas]

Grandkids here the next three days.  Will look at things after that.  Thanks for the response.

Ken in Kansas

[RDspaguy]

On 8/26/2023 at 7:11 AM, Ken in Kansas said:

in a ravine

They make great raised-bed planters. Fill-er-up and grow some veggies.😁