New hot tub owner - water is super green already

[Tom Caflisch]

I'm a new hot tub owner so i'm still learning water chemistry. I followed what my dealer told me to do, and after about 2-3 weeks the water is quite green. We did use the tub with about 5 - 6 people for maybe 2 - 3 hours a couple times the first 2 weeks, but the water was really green so I actually drained it and refilled it already.

Chemicals look like they're in range to me. Here's some pics right before I drained it.
https://ibb.co/jTtR3Zr
https://ibb.co/MCyHNBm
https://ibb.co/wr57mQQ

Any suggestions on how to get it back to clear next time and also what to do better to prevent it from getting this green?

 

[CanadianSpaTech]

How many times have you cleaned the filters since you got it? 

Are you using Spa Shock?

What type of sanitizer are you using? 

What instructions did your dealer give you?

 

 

[Tom Caflisch]

7 minutes ago, CanadianSpaTech said:

How many times have you cleaned the filters since you got it? 

Are you using Spa Shock?

What type of sanitizer are you using? 

What instructions did your dealer give you?

 

 

Those pics were taken and 5 days prior no one had been in it and I had put about 4 -6 caps of SpaGuard shock in it and about 8 caps of SpaGuard ph decreaser in it. 
 

My hot tub has the frog @ease smart Chloe thing and it’s set on number 3.  
 

dealer told me to check chemicals once a week and use ph decreaser when needed. Also dump one packet of trio softener and the following day add a half cap of SpaGuard Spa Complete

[CanadianSpaTech]

And the filters? Sounds like it was getting quite a bit of use. Filters should be cleaned weekly with normal use 2-3 times a week 2 people 1/2 hour at a time. Clean filters add spa shock then run spa until it clears and clean filters again. Green can come from algae if your sanitizer was low and filters were dirty. Green can also come from copper in the water use a stain and scale remover to sequester metals in water.

If you have a heavy bather load like you mentioned a shock and filter clean after might be in order. 

 

 

[Tom Caflisch]

1 minute ago, CanadianSpaTech said:

And the filters? Sounds like it was getting quite a bit of use. Filters should be cleaned weekly with normal use 2-3 times a week 2 people 1/2 hour at a time. Clean filters add spa shock then run spa until it clears and clean filters again. Green can come from algae if your sanitizer was low and filters were dirty. Green can also come from copper in the water use a stain and scale remover to sequester metals in water.

If you have a heavy bather load like you mentioned a shock and filter clean after might be in order. 

 

 

Sanitizer definitely wasn’t low since it was brand new. 
 

Does hosing the filter off actually make that much of a difference? 
 

Also is a little bit of brown scummy buildup on the water line from chemical imbalance or something else?

[ratchett]

1 hour ago, Tom Caflisch said:

Does hosing the filter off actually make that much of a difference? 

Far more than the average spa user expects. I've heard some spa techs state 80% of their service issues are resolved by simply cleaning/replacing the filter, so that's always the first place to start.

 

1 hour ago, Tom Caflisch said:

Also is a little bit of brown scummy buildup on the water line from chemical imbalance or something else?

That's soap scum and other sweat/dirt coming off the body. The more you rinse before jumping in the spa, the less scum buildup you'll see at the waterline

[castletonia]

According to the @ease test strip the SmartChlor (AKA Chlorine) was low which is why the green water.  In a heavy use scenario setting the SmartChlor to 3 isn't sufficient.  I would bump to 4 or 5.  It will shorten the life of the cartridge but it will do a better job keeping the water clean.  Also, did anyone adjust the filter settings?  Default from the factory is either 1 or 2 hours daily.  I would bump it up to at least 4 hours daily, preferably 6.  You also will need to manually add chlorine after 5-6 people use the hot tub for 2-3 hours, that's a ton of usage at one time and the Frog system, or any system for that matter, can handle that usage without some assistance.  

[RDspaguy]

I copied this from another thread on spa chemistry. It is my suggested maintenance routine and the one I use in my own spa.

Fill spa. Test alkalinity.

Balance alkalinity to 80 to 120ppm , 100 being ideal.

After alkalinity is adjusted and stable, at least 24 hours, test ph.

Adjust ph 7.4 to 7.6.

You should not have a chlorine or bromine reading in your spa except right after you add chlorine. Which should only be dichlor. Do not add liquid chlorine or any type of tablet. You are not concerned with what that reading is for now. 3-5 ppm is health dept requirement for PUBLIC spa. Unless you have constant use by everyone in the neighborhood, YOU DO NOT NEED THIS, it is only causing problems.

Add 4 tsp of dichlor only AFTER ALK AND PH ARE BALANCED. 

Use it and enjoy. After each use add 1tsp plus 1/2 tsp per person in the spa of dichlor. Leave cover open for 30 minutes after to help prolong your cover life.

Once each week check alk and ph, balance as needed. Check free cl and total cl, and shock as needed with dichlor. If free cl and total cl are the same or zero, you do not need to shock.

You may add the nature 2 stick whenever you choose. I would leave it out for now to help eliminate it as a source for your discomfort.

Rinse filters monthly. Clean them throughly every 3 to 6 months. Drain and refill yearly.

Do not use other chemicals. Scents, mps, conditioner, ph stabilizer, foam remover, none! 

To avoid foaming, do not wash your suit in soap and fabric softener. Do not get oil, lotion, hair conditioner or makeup in the water.

Hard water, meaning high calcium, is not feasible to reduce. Keep your alkalinity where it belongs and your hard water will not be a problem. If alk is high, calcium will come out of solution causing a sandpaper feel and white staining in your tub.

A "clean cycle" just moves water through the filter and runs your ozone if you have it. It is meaningless to your spa maintenance. Filter cycles are what count. You want at least 2 hours twice per day minimum! Run a clean cycle after you add chemicals or before use if you like.

[CanadianSpaTech]

2 hours ago, Tom Caflisch said:

Sanitizer definitely wasn’t low since it was brand new. 
 

Does hosing the filter off actually make that much of a difference? 
 

Also is a little bit of brown scummy buildup on the water line from chemical imbalance or something else?

To be honest don't know much about the Frog system but sounds and looks like it is not doing it's job based on the claims it is making on the web site.

It is likely a slow release chemical. When you have a heavy bather load the contaminates you bring into the spa will eat up the reserve level of sanitizer that is in the spa and because it is slow release it might take a day or 2 to get back up to safe levels

Maintaining a clean filter is IMO the key to using less chemicals and keeping the water crystal clear by removing the organic contaminates from the water on a regular basis and allowing them to cause havoc with your water.

The scummy build up is the organic contaminates suspending in the water. Each time you enter the water anything attached to your body will stay in the water. Underarm deodorant, Shampoo detergents from swim suits grease and body oils hand lotion and the all time killer make-up. To remove the organic particulate it is common to use spa shock weekly or as required  (cloudy or smelly water) The shock brings the particulate together so they are big enough for the filters to pick up. 

Does your dealer offer a "Spa School" to teach you how to properly maintain a healthy hot tub?

At this point it seems they have done the bare minimum

[CanadianSpaTech]

This is what I send to customers. You could switch out the word Bromine for Chlorine:

 

Clean filters every week..2 at most. Soak them in "filter wash" liquid every 6 weeks to do a deeper cleaning for the body oils and stuff you don't get out during your weekly cleaning. Add liquid to pail of warm water and let filter soak for 24 hours then rinse really well with the jet setting on your garden hose. Keep your filter clean and everything else is easier. Always recommend buying a second set of filters so you can clean and rotate filters as needed. Filter should last a year to a year and a half depending on how much you use the spa.

When adding chems less is best...you can always add more but can't take it back out again. After adding any chems leave cover open and run spa for at least 1 full cycle with pumps on high and all jets and waterfall open. Pumps will run for 15 mins and then automatically shut off that is 1 full cycle.

Sanitizer:

Place 3 bromine pucks in floater and expose only 2/3 of the bottom puck. Pucks are slow release and might take a 2-3 days to get to safe levels. You can expose more pucks to dissolve them at higher levels faster. Expose to much for to long and bromine levels might go higher than you want. Floater is adjustable by turning the bottom of floater up or down exposing more or less of the pucks.

Bromine granule: Use a bit of granular bromine to "boost" level of sanitizer quicker. (after heavy bather load bromine levels will drop)

Organics:

Organic contaminates are all the things you bring with you when you get in the spa. Underarm deodorant, shampoo, hand lotion, detergent in bathing suits. if you ever open the cover and the water is cloudy or has punky odor that is the organics suspending in the spa. The only way to remove is to "Shock" the spa using Spa Shock. If tub is cloudy add shock and run until spa clears and then clean filters. Use smaller amount of Spa Shock weekly to remove contaminates. If you have had a heavy bather load perhaps a small amount of shock after use and maybe a bit of bromine granule to "boost" the level back up as bromine levels will drop from increased use and then the slow release pucks can maintain level from there.

Balance your water using test strips. once a week only. Set Alkalinity level first this stabilizes the water so you get accurate readings on the test strip. If the alkalinity level is not in range you will get "bounce" on the PH and bromine levels. Bounce is where if the water is not stabilized or stable you could do test strips 10 mins apart and get different readings.

Use PH up, PH down, Alka rise (or PH Down to lover Alkalinity) 

Use a Stain and Scale remover liquid bi weekly to help sequester metal particulate (copper, magnesium etc that occurs in city/well water) and also prevent scaling.

Water should always be crystal clear. If it's clear and has no odor then its good to go. If water is not clear then you need to take action. If you are getting a lot of foam on the water when running the pumps you can use a liquid "de-foamer" to quickly dissipate bubbles. Foam is also telling you there is a build up of some type of organic contaminate (detergent usually) and you might need to add some shock. If you are wearing bathing suits just rinse them do not add to regular laundry load.

If you add a chem...say PH up...it needs a bit of time to work/blend into the water. So if you are trying to say raise your PH add the recommended amount and give it half a day before re testing to see if level has gone up the required amount. Again less is best...you can always add more.

A sample (fill clean water bottle) of spa water can be taken to your local store and they can analyze it for you and tell you where your water is at and what you need to add.

Do not over analyze your spa. Keep it simple. Maintenance should come down to 10 mins once a week. Clean filters and balance water. If it looks clean and smells clean it's clean.

You need:

Bromine Test Strips, A Floater to hold bromine pucks, Bromine pucks, Granular Bromine, PH up, PH down, Alka Rise, Stain and Scale remover, Filter Wash, De-Foamer liquid and try a Scent Additive if you like. I recommend you try some "scents" available at any hot tub store. Eucalyptus scent works great if you are stuffed up with a head cold. Works just like a vaporizer with the steam coming off the hot water. Just make sure they are designed for hot tub use.

[RDspaguy]

Spa frog is a mineral purifier like nature 2. Often used in conjunction with bromine in a floater dispenser. Noyhing wrong with it except of course the constant ph drag of any continuous feed chlorine or bromine ststem. I use dichlor because it is ph neutral and you do not have a constant ph alk battle going on. Cheaper and easier to maintain that way, with much less damage to equipment in the long run, and it's more enjoyable to use. 

I am a bit surprised at some of the recommendations for chemicals given on this forum. Seems like alot of chemical bottle education, where you learned what you know from reading the label. I am a chemical minimalist, and CPO certified, and have put hundreds of people on this system myself and who knows how many from the pool store that recommends my system. I don't get calls about green water, or have to explain what all those different chemicals are for, or have some complex instructions to remember. My ph and alk start high, so I buy 2 chemicals, dichlor and dry acid. That's it. No shelf full of hundreds of dollars of crap. No oily scents that clog the filter, add to the scumline, and leave me smelling like vapo-rub after 3 days and 6 showers. Simple, easy, cheap, clean.