5,000 Bucks?

[Tom]

It seems they have a nice tub. I like the video, it showed me that its not an assembly type spa but one that only has a few people making it not every body down the line.

What you saw in the video is only a tiny fraction of the production process and as far as I can recall showed a few stations. I think spatech pictured a group of people following a spa all the way down the line -- but as he says, most of our people specialize at one or two stations. Since this was a promo rather than a documentary of our production line, the videographer chose not to show the automated sections of the plant, considering people in the shots to be more visually interesting than machines.

And thanks for the compliments.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

What do they do when there is a problem?? i seen where they just send it down the line"let the dealer fix it". I'm not saying it happens all the time but it does happen. Looking for the correcrt spa is not as easy as it seems.

Maybe that's what the video says but that's not how a production line works. They fix within the line and certainly if it is an issue at the end where they do their final testing they'd pull it off-line and treat it separately and retest off-line whether its a spa or a washing machine. I'm not trying to say batch processing a spa is detrimental; just don't show me some video that some Marketing guy made where it tells me that process is better.

BTW, every spa video makes the Manufacturer look like they have their ducks in a row (just like the one I saw last week from another maker that made so many general and ambiguous claims) but since I know a bit more how they're made I roll my eyes at much of the video's claims, regardless of whose video it is.

[104 Degrees]

Maybe that's what the video says but that's not how a production line works. They fix within the line and certainly if it is an issue at the end where they do their fial testing they'd pull it off-line and treat it separately and retest off-line wherther its a spa or a washing machine. I'm not trying to say batch processing a spa is detrimental, just don't show me some video that some Marketing guy made where it tells me that process is better.

BTW, every spa video makes the Manufacturer look like they have their ducks in a row (just like the one I saw last week from another maker that made so many gernal and ambiguos claims) but since I know a bit mroe how they're made I roll my eyes at most of the video's claims, regardless of whose video it is.

In my field i do the same with manufactures video. I guess this tub game is about the same thing anywhere.

What you saw in the video is only a tiny fraction of the production process. Since this was a promo rather than a documentary of our production line, the videographer chose not to show the automated sections of the plant, considering that people in the shots were more visually interesting than machines.

And thanks for the compliments.

Thanks for the honesty tom. I still think your spas have somethings i like over some of the ones i have seen. I will say theres nothing like a spa in the coldest of winter.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

In my field i do the same with manufactures video. I guess this tub game is about the same thing anywhere.

Thanks for the honesty tom. I still think your spas have somethings i like over some of the ones i have seen. I will say theres nothing like a spa in the coldest of winter.

... and I understand the point of the videos. It's not that I think they are the devil's tools, I just think you have to take that kind of thing with a grain of salt.

[Roger]

In my field i do the same with manufactures video. I guess this tub game is about the same thing anywhere.

Thanks for the honesty tom. I still think your spas have somethings i like over some of the ones i have seen. I will say theres nothing like a spa in the coldest of winter.

Your absolutly right about theres nothing like a spa in the dead of winter, however here in Northern Minnesota that can be pushed past the enjoyment phase. And both types of insulation work great in the dead of winter. I'm not saying that either kind has supremecy over the other I'm just saying there are more FF dealers here than there are the other and if it didn't work here it wouldn't be used. We have a way of weeding out over the years technologies that don't work for our harsh climate. After all theres a whole lot of Canada that does not have as low an average mean as we do. And no offense Canada and i am not pounding my chest as I state this, most of Canada that does have harsher climate than here.......no one lives in. No one said Canadians were stupid!!!

[104 Degrees]

Your absolutly right about theres nothing like a spa in the dead of winter, however here in Northern Minnesota that can be pushed past the enjoyment phase. And both types of insulation work great in the dead of winter. I'm not saying that either kind has supremecy over the other I'm just saying there are more FF dealers here than there are the other and if it didn't work here it wouldn't be used. We have a way of weeding out over the years technologies that don't work for our harsh climate. After all theres a whole lot of Canada that does not have as low an average mean as we do. And no offense Canada and i am not pounding my chest as I state this, most of Canada that does have harsher climate than here.......no one lives in. No one said Canadians were stupid!!!

Great info Roger!! Thank you. Its you spa tech and others that make this site worth coming to.

[Roger]

Great info Roger!! Thank you. Its you spa tech and others that make this site worth coming to.

Thanks I take that as a compliment as I put alot of effort, as others here do into trying to help people weed through the information and missinformation to try and gain some non sales pitch related information to help them join the world of hot water relaxation under the stars. It's posters like yourself that make it enjoyable. It was 23 degrees and snowing last night so guess what I was doing, yup the "perfect soak" was again achieved. I wrote something on the perfect soak a while back. -21 F was the coldest soak I took and it was to cold.

[104 Degrees]

Thanks I take that as a compliment as I put alot of effort, as others here do into trying to help people weed through the information and missinformation to try and gain some non sales pitch related information to help them join the world of hot water relaxation under the stars. It's posters like yourself that make it enjoyable. It was 23 degrees and snowing last night so guess what I was doing, yup the "perfect soak" was again achieved. I wrote something on the perfect soak a while back. -21 F was the coldest soak I took and it was to cold.

I love the -20 nights in my Crown XL. Its 40" deep, when it says 104 its not kidding.

[Tom]

After all theres a whole lot of Canada that does not have as low an average mean as we do. And no offense Canada and i am not pounding my chest as I state this, most of Canada that does have harsher climate than here.......no one lives in. No one said Canadians were stupid!!!

LOL Go ahead, pound your chest!

For better or worse, many of us Canadians DO live in those harsh climates, right up to the Arctic Circle and beyond. It's not a question of stupidity but of cultural heritage (for the native Inuit) or economics (the Alberta Oil Sands, for example) or preference (like your Alaskans, many people enjoy the north)

Here in Alberta, temperatures vary significantly throughout the year, with average winter temperatures ranging around -18°C (3°F) in the north, which is not too bad, though an average disguises the horribly cold days. Average summer temperatures tend to be more consistent throughout the province, generally ranging between +16°C and +18°C. To me, anything over 21°C (70°F) is hot, and 23°C (73°F) is a scorcher!

At Fort McMurray in north-central Alberta, where the oil sands are, the minimum air temperature recorded is -51°C (-60F) though today it's a relatively warm -20°C (4°F).

Source: http://www3.gov.ab.ca/env/water/GWSW/quant...M1_metdata.html

And for all that, your comment about vast unpopulated areas in northern Canada is true. Canada could be described as a group of people hugging the US border.... where it's warmest!

[Roger]

And for all that, your comment about vast unpopulated areas in northern Canada are true. Canada could be described as a group of people hugging the US border.... where it's warmest!

Or the coast lines where it's alot warmer than along the MN, ND, MT boarder.

http://countrystudies.us/united-states/wea...sota/duluth.htm

Looks pretty close to the same to me.

[Tom]

Looks pretty close to the same to me.

Sure does!

That data I gave was for Edmonton, a few miles north of our plant. For Ft. McMurray, an industrial city more to the north (http://www.grc.k12.nf.ca/climatecanada/fort_mcmurray.htm), I think these are daytime highs.

Hard to compare from the sketchy Ft McM chart. It looks as though Duluth has a more extreme range, especially higher in the summer, and about as cold in the winter. Duluth has above-freezing temperatures from March to November, though, and Ft McM only has them from Apr to Oct so colder on the whole. Don't have time to look up a better chart.

Okay, that's enough playing "my country's colder than your country"!

Have a good weekend.

[Roger]

Sure does!

Okay, that's enough playing "my country's colder than your country"!

Have a good weekend.

Na na na na boo boo.

[thestallion]

No one is bashing Costco or promoting it, no really pushing hydrospa. The fact is though with the Costco advantage of a unlimited time frame return policy, it guarantees a consumer will never be stuck with a lempon or a spa product that doesen't work out the way it should.It also is combines with the brake slammin great deal of the Hydrospa product which sells for double on their website. It is trully a "no brainer" in terms of value and security of knowing you won't be holding the bag if something goes bad. No dealer can offer the price, value or customer return if not satisfied as Costco can.

I have a question about Costco return policy, how or why would they take back products long after they are out of warranty ? And why do they offer extended warranty's ? Why not keep recycling things like your mattress, fridge, TV, etc. oh my product is no longer under warranty, I'll just go return it for a new one, it seems to me that something has to give at some point.

[jwillard]

I have a question about Costco return policy, how or why would they take back products long after they are out of warranty ? And why do they offer extended warranty's ? Why not keep recycling things like your mattress, fridge, TV, etc. oh my product is no longer under warranty, I'll just go return it for a new one, it seems to me that something has to give at some point.

I am assuming its started out as a gimmick by Costco to entice people to buy from them....but it is a giant loophole that was costing them millions by employees and consumers who abused it on a regular basis. lol, do a Google search and look at all the articles on how much they have lost due to this policy. When I bought mine it wasn't a major factor in my decision...I liked the spa and the price was affordable...should I have had a problem I would most definitely have used it though. It only takes a few to mess things up for everyone but in this case it was more than just a few.

[spa_repair_guy]

I'm curious and confused I don't get a lot of time to visit. Up to now I have always considered myself to have a firm grasp of American English but maybe you could clear it up for me.

You said:

"Jwillard Mar 12 2007, 01:33 PM

I never compared my spa to a 10k tub...what I said was they are both the same animal but for two different prices. I choose to pay 5k versus 10k. The only difference that really matters to me since I am happy with my spa. In your last post you are the one who said it wasnt a 10k tub....your right...I only paid 5k for it! "

and then you said:

"Jwillard Mar 12 2007, 01:54 PM

It really is pretty simple isnt it? Glad you got it! I didnt say they were the same...I said similar....similar warranties. And to be honest, I really dont think a warranty has ever been a deciding factor on if I purchase an item....but thats me. As far as your neighbor's wife...sure whatever....but you still havent told me where the 5k difference is on the costco tub versus a dealer tub. Break it down in simple terms for me please."

Here's my dilema:

"what I said was they are both the same animal but for two different prices"

"I didnt say they were the same...I said similar"

In less than 1/2 an hour these posts stand in direct contrast. Unless ..

In your screed do the words "same" and "similar" equal each other?

Here's an easy question for you Mr. JWillard,

What is the precise value of dependability?

[jwillard]

I'm curious and confused I don't get a lot of time to visit. Up to now I have always considered myself to have a firm grasp of American English but maybe you could clear it up for me.

You said:

"Jwillard Mar 12 2007, 01:33 PM

I never compared my spa to a 10k tub...what I said was they are both the same animal but for two different prices. I choose to pay 5k versus 10k. The only difference that really matters to me since I am happy with my spa. In your last post you are the one who said it wasnt a 10k tub....your right...I only paid 5k for it! "

and then you said:

When I said this I was talking about spas in general...a spa is a spa!!! Not a hard concept there...even with a limited grasp of the english language.

"Jwillard Mar 12 2007, 01:54 PM

It really is pretty simple isnt it? Glad you got it! I didnt say they were the same...I said similar....similar warranties. And to be honest, I really dont think a warranty has ever been a deciding factor on if I purchase an item....but thats me. As far as your neighbor's wife...sure whatever....but you still havent told me where the 5k difference is on the costco tub versus a dealer tub. Break it down in simple terms for me please."

In this statement I was talking about warranties...I said similar warranties...read it more than once if you need to.

Here's my dilema:

"what I said was they are both the same animal but for two different prices"

"I didnt say they were the same...I said similar"

In less than 1/2 an hour these posts stand in direct contrast. Unless ..

In your screed do the words "same" and "similar" equal each other?

In less than 2 minutes I hope I cleared this up for you.

Here's an easy question for you Mr. JWillard,

What is the precise value of dependability?

Hmmmm, dependability.....precise value? I dont think I can give you the precise value of anything. My tub has been vary dependable. Was there a point to your question???

[Roger]

Hmmmm, dependability.....precise value? I dont think I can give you the precise value of anything. My tub has been vary dependable. Was there a point to your question???

When I said this I was talking about spas in general...a spa is a spa!!! Not a hard concept there...even with a limited grasp of the english language.

I dissagree, but I think you allready know that, a spa is not a spa other than the fact that they hold hot water. Some are louder, some don't last as long, some don't look as good. Every spa is different, maybe not to you but to me.

In this statement I was talking about warranties...I said similar warranties...read it more than once if you need to.

Similar as in they are both warrantys, other than that completely different, one handle by a local dealer and one handled by........well that depends.

In less than 2 minutes I hope I cleared this up for you..

I think your trying to clear it up but it seems your just digging a bit deeper and not excepting the differences, well maybe a little as of late.

Hmmmm, dependability.....precise value? I dont think I can give you the precise value of anything. My tub has been vary dependable. Was there a point to your question???..

Here let me help. To you the precise value of dependability will start to become evident in about 5 years because after that is when the value of a hot tub starts to come in. Not 2 months and not 2 years. If a tub at 5000 bucks lasts for 10 years it has started to build some value and anything after that is good value. If at 6 years it starts to fall apart and is a trouble spa for the remaining 4 of it's life expectancy, value is no so good. If an 8000 dollar spa starts to go to heck at 10 years it is a not so good value, if it doesn't start to have trouble until it is 15 years old then not so bad. And over it's life expectancy it will use half the electricity. I would say the precise value is the difference in cost. Might not be worth it to you but worth it to a whole lot of people.

[jwillard]

I dissagree, but I think you allready know that, a spa is not a spa other than the fact that they hold hot water. Some are louder, some don't last as long, some don't look as good. Every spa is different, maybe not to you but to me.

Similar as in they are both warrantys, other than that completely different, one handle by a local dealer and one handled by........well that depends.

I think your trying to clear it up but it seems your just digging a bit deeper and not excepting the differences, well maybe a little as of late.

Here let me help. To you the precise value of dependability will start to become evident in about 5 years because after that is when the value of a hot tub starts to come in. Not 2 months and not 2 years. If a tub at 5000 bucks lasts for 10 years it has started to build some value and anything after that is good value. If at 6 years it starts to fall apart and is a trouble spa for the remaining 4 of it's life expectancy, value is no so good. If an 8000 dollar spa starts to go to heck at 10 years it is a not so good value, if it doesn't start to have trouble until it is 15 years old then not so bad. And over it's life expectancy it will use half the electricity. I would say the precise value is the difference in cost. Might not be worth it to you but worth it to a whole lot of people.

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't it you that said a spa can be louder because of the ground its placed on, the deck or location....so until you get it installed you never know what your noise level will be like and this is a crap shoot...but hey...if its too loud just take it back to the dealer...NOT. Hell there is a story(recent) on the board where a consumer purchased a new tub and probably will get stuck with a repaired tub, nothing like the "new dealer backed tub"!!!! Oh there goes that dealer services...the guy already is feeling the dealer turn his back on him.

Ok I corrected myself...it was Dr Spa not you...my mistake

Well, since ya asked. I don't think any of this matters. ALL of it has to do with personal preference and personal location., Just because something "feels good" to you, has absolutely no bearing on how it will feel to someone else. How quite it is has a lot to do with where and how it's installed. An independent concrete pad can be quite different from a concrete pad that's upagains a homes foundation, which can be quite different from a wooden deck. Even the type of ground under a concrete pad can make a noticable difference.

I know, your going to ask me how I know the Costco Hydro unit will only last for 6 years......I don't, but neither do you!

Dealer Backed Tub

My warranty on my tub is handled by a local dealer and the differences most point out aren't differences that matter to me. Like I have said many times I don't see paying 5k more for THOSE differences. Here you go talking about 5 years...basically a number you are pulling out of a hat because you really don't know how long it will last. And as far as electricity consumption you are again pulling that out of your hat...I bet it would be safe to say my overall energy consumption is half of what you pay...remember I live in Florida. Life expectancy is altered by many things...I know a little old lady that keeps her $10 pair of shoes longer than I keep my $100....guess it really depends on how good a care you take care of it. Longevity isnt just deemed by the amount of money you pay for your spa...there are many many things that have an effect on this. Now I hope thats as clear as the water in my hot tub!!

[104 Degrees]

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't it you that said a spa can be louder because of the ground its placed on, the deck or location....so until you get it installed you never know what your noise level will be like and this is a crap shoot...but hey...if its too loud just take it back to the dealer...NOT. Hell there is a story(recent) on the board where a consumer purchased a new tub and probably will get stuck with a repaired tub, nothing like the "new dealer backed tub"!!!! Oh there goes that dealer services...the guy already is feeling the dealer turn his back on him.

Ok I corrected myself...it was Dr Spa not you...my mistake

Dealer Backed Tub

My warranty on my tub is handled by a local dealer and the differences most point out aren't differences that matter to me. Like I have said many times I don't see paying 5k more for THOSE differences. Here you go talking about 5 years...basically a number you are pulling out of a hat because you really don't know how long it will last. And as far as electricity consumption you are again pulling that out of your hat...I bet it would be safe to say my overall energy consumption is half of what you pay...remember I live in Florida. Life expectancy is altered by many things...I know a little old lady that keeps her $10 pair of shoes longer than I keep my $100....guess it really depends on how good a care you take care of it. Longevity isnt just deemed by the amount of money you pay for your spa...there are many many things that have an effect on this. Now I hope thats as clear as the water in my hot tub!!

I will say, if i had a tub wheres its warm all the time. I would not care as much to a dealer fixing it as an independant doing it because it will not freez up. it all depends on how i would use it? #1 not much"the costco type tub. #2 Alot "get a better tub---Dealer type".

[jwillard]

I will say, if i had a tub wheres its warm all the time. I would not care as much to a dealer fixing it as an independant doing it because it will not freez up. it all depends on how i would use it? #1 not much"the costco type tub. #2 Alot "get a better tub---Dealer type".

You know...not trying to come off rude....since it came up in thread that someone didn't have a grasp of the English language on my post they are surely going to have issues with yours.

So if I am understanding your statement you feel that if someone gives you a $10 bill its worth more than say you were out walking and found $10 laying on the ground???? You know....a dealer could have very well "given" me a tub, but I am the type that went out and "found" one myself.

[104 Degrees]

You know...not trying to come off rude....since it came up in thread that someone didn't have a grasp of the English language on my post they are surely going to have issues with yours.

So if I am understanding your statement you feel that if someone gives you a $10 bill its worth more than say you were out walking and found $10 laying on the ground???? You know....a dealer could have very well "given" me a tub, but I am the type that went out and "found" one myself.

You live in Florida. You can wait for the tub to get repaired.

[Roger]

[And as far as electricity consumption you are again pulling that out of your hat...I bet it would be safe to say my overall energy consumption is half of what you pay...remember I live in Florida. Life expectancy is altered by many things...I know a little old lady that keeps her $10 pair of shoes longer than I keep my $100....guess it really depends on how good a care you take care of it. Longevity isnt just deemed by the amount of money you pay for your spa...there are many many things that have an effect on this. Now I hope thats as clear as the water in my hot tub!! [/color]

OK I can only handle one of your points, do you truely think your energy consumtion is half of mine? I pay less than 30 bucks a month on average for electricity for my tub, and yes it has been metered off and on for 3 years. And I live in Northern Minnesota. How much do you pay? And, as you put it, don't pull something out of your hat! Your right, life expectancy is altered by many things, and the biggest thing is how much you payed, to a certain point. Because in America, nothings free! And you keep bringing up 5 grand as your savings, lets get that in line and say 2-3 grand. Because a good quality tub is 7-8 grand. Nine or ten grand for a top of the line with way more bells and whistles than anyone needs and most don't want. And there are plenty of good values at 5 grand and even some that are less that come with dealer backing, after all thats what this thread is about. Is yours a good value, we won't know for 5-10 more years. So lets not quantify it as one.

What do you use to keep your water clean anyway?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

And you keep bringing up 5 grand as your savings, lets get that in line and say 2-3 grand. Because a good quality tub is 7-8 grand.

I think you might be a bit generous on that estimation.

[104 Degrees]

I think you might be a bit generous on that estimation.

From what i have seen in the last week, its 7 to 8 thousand for a good spa with good dealer backing.

[jwillard]

OK I can only handle one of your points, do you truely think your energy consumtion is half of mine? I pay less than 30 bucks a month on average for electricity for my tub, and yes it has been metered off and on for 3 years. And I live in Northern Minnesota. How much do you pay? And, as you put it, don't pull something out of your hat! Your right, life expectancy is altered by many things, and the biggest thing is how much you payed, to a certain point. Because in America, nothings free! And you keep bringing up 5 grand as your savings, lets get that in line and say 2-3 grand. Because a good quality tub is 7-8 grand. Nine or ten grand for a top of the line with way more bells and whistles than anyone needs and most don't want. And there are plenty of good values at 5 grand and even some that are less that come with dealer backing, after all thats what this thread is about. Is yours a good value, we won't know for 5-10 more years. So lets not quantify it as one.

What do you use to keep your water clean anyway?

When I stated my energy consumption was half of yours I meant overall...like I said in other post I couldnt tell you what my tub uses...all I care about is when its due its not twice what it was before...and going off dollar amount its was only 30 to 40 dollars more then the previous month and during that time frame I was using my heat...we had a cold front come through. Since I am in Florida and your in Minnesota I just made a big assumption your energy usage period, is more than mine. Not pulling anything out of a hat...I am giving a dollar amount...I dont have time to sit down and do the math nor do I care...I dont clip coupons either...sue me!

I keep bringing up 5k because almost every tub I looked at was 10k or more...the Vita Rendezvous priced out at $11,400 or so...without taxes...and is a much nicer tub but it was overkill for my first tub. So for $5200 I bought a tub that had features I liked, different seating with differant jet layout with a cover, a stereo and a lifter, plus I believe someone else in the thread brought up 10k not me....think i just kept it up..could be wrong there also...this thread is getting long. Those bells and whistles are one of the reasons I decided to go with the Legend...I didnt need those extras or the dealer support. The legend has the features I wanted in a tub and at an affordable price. Cant remember but I think the Jacuzzi j480 was 10.1k without taxes or there about....forgot once I decided to go with Legend.

As far as "we" not knowing if its a good value is crap...the only person it matters to is "me"...I bought an paid for it...I feel what it has given me already is value. It wasn't damaged and runs perfect straight from costco....so right there I would say I am doing better then some of those "dealer" backed spas being delivered.

I have a spa/pool company($15 a wk) do my water as I pick up inf on here (which I need to do more of). Currently nature2, dichlor and the occasional water balancing. My water is perfect, no smell and is crystal clear. I always shower before using it and hardly wear a suit when its just me. I find value in having first hand experience in someone doing my water for me and the fact he wipes the whole spa down inside and out on each visit and swaps out filters and cleans them off site. I do have to admit I tried over managing my water from the start and found it kind of intimidating....now I am finding its not that hard and will eventually once I find more time start doing my water myself.

After reading this again I also wanted to address this statement but forgot so I am editing this...

I dissagree, but I think you allready know that, a spa is not a spa other than the fact that they hold hot water. Some are louder, some don't last as long, some don't look as good. Every spa is different, maybe not to you but to me.

Two people can look at the exact same spa and see completely different things....where you see comfortable seats, nice design, all the features you wanted that other person can see just the opposite. Purchasing a tub from Costco is a choice, a gamble...whatever you may....to get a tub without spending 7k -10k or more for something that may in fact do just as good a job as the "one" you bought. Whichever way you go people want a good experience...and in that it doesnt matter if you go dealer purchase or big box stores. If you look through this forum you will find experiences that go both ways...