teamethanol Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Hi There! I moved into a house that had a spa in it already. It was working when I viewed the house, then it sat idle for 6 weeks or so before I could close the deal and move in. When I moved in I found that the motor was extremely corroded, so I replaced it. Filled the tub and started it but the heat wouldn't come on. Replaced the heat sensors, one on each side of the heater, and now the heat will come on, but only when the pump is on high speed. Further, the jets button is supposed to cycle the pump through off, low, high, off. Now it will only go low, high, low, high, never off. I let it run on high overnight, even though it's supposed to automatically shut the jets off after 15 minutes it ran all night. As far as I can tell everything is connected properly on the control board, but no luck. I set it to 8 hour filtration cycle, so it's not on continuous filtration. I also tried removing the filter to no avail. The heating only on high seems like a flow problem, but since the sensors are brand new and removing the filter had no effect, I can't figure it out. The not turning off must be related, but I have no idea how. Help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Spa Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 BRAND MODEL YEAR ?????????????????????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreservedSwine Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Does it have a pressure switch? If so, be sure it's working properly, and/or clean your filters. If it has no pressure switch- maybe you have the high speed, and low speed wires reversed on the pump, and it's set to only heat on low speed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamethanol Posted October 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Sorry Dr. Spa, I should have included that initially. It's a Freeflow Passport, circa 2005. I don't believe it has a pressure switch, I believe that one (or both) of the temperature sensors (thermistors?) are also flow sensors. Maybe they measure the temperature differential on either side of the heater and deduce the flow? I did replace the GFCI plug head, but it seems like if I had accidentally reversed the polarity incoming to the power supply, the damage would be alot worse. I'll double check the GFCI wiring tonight and let you know if I find anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreservedSwine Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 If it's using typical M-7 Balboa technology, those are temp sensors, no flow or pressure switch. When I suggest you may have reversed the high and low speed wires, this has nothing to do with polarity, or the GFCI. I think you, or whoever replaced your motor didn't wire it properly when it was replaced, and they have reversed the high, and low speed wires. I let it run on high overnight, even though it's supposed to automatically shut the jets off after 15 minutes it ran all night.It think's it running on low speed here, but is in fact energizing high speed on the pump. Probably because the low speed wire is connected to the high speed terminal on the motor. (And the low speed wire is connected to the high speed terminal on the pump)This also explains why it heats on high speed (it thinks it's energizing low speed), and won't heat on low speed when it should... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamethanol Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Thanks Dr. Spa, I'll double check the motor wiring. Since it was me that did the work, it's certainly possible (likely even) that I screwed something up. I'll feel pretty silly, but I sure hope you're right. I'll let you know what I find. I didn't actually check the GFCI yet. I think I'll operate on the assumption that it's correct and check the motor wiring first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamethanol Posted November 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Sorry it took so long for me to update, been busy enjoying my spa. You were totally right, I had the motor wired backwards. I fixed it, triple checked everything, filled it up and fired it up and it came on for about 10 seconds then died. I had already made up my mind to call someone if I had any more trouble, so I took a cursory glance and called a pro. He came a few days later, double checked all my work up to that point and found everything satisfactory, then started trouble shooting. Come to find out that it was...a blown fuse. So basically, with your help, I got it 99% done, the had to lean on pro for the last 1%. Anyway, it's up and running now. Thanks for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck c Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 Hello, I am having a similar problem with my spa. It has the M7 dual sensor system. I have been having problems with it lately heating. I started out changing both temperature sensors based on the fact that I was getting the dr, then the hh message etc. that did not fix the problem, so I decided to change the 2 speed pump, the entire heater system, the cables between the main control panel and the pumps. I had recently changed the main control panel as well. Now, the spa goes through the pruning cycle normally with the jet pump coming on but I am not sure which speed. It seems to run normal for a while with the temperature going up one degree or so, then I get the Dr message. I have primed it and O am pretty certain that there is no air lock. The filter is new but it seems to struggle and it fills up with water then gurgles. It cycles through that. The jets are working. After I reset the fault message, it runs for a while then I get the LF message. So no heating. could it be that I have the low speed and high speed wires on the pump revered? I followed the pump wiring instructions but noticed that the new amp 4 cable that I bought has the black and red wires reveres in the order of how they are installed on the plug. I appreciate any thoughts. It’s driving me nuts thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratchett Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 6 hours ago, Chuck c said: Hello, I am having a similar problem with my spa. It has the M7 dual sensor system. I have been having problems with it lately heating. I started out changing both temperature sensors based on the fact that I was getting the dr, then the hh message etc. that did not fix the problem, so I decided to change the 2 speed pump, the entire heater system, the cables between the main control panel and the pumps. I had recently changed the main control panel as well. Now, the spa goes through the pruning cycle normally with the jet pump coming on but I am not sure which speed. It seems to run normal for a while with the temperature going up one degree or so, then I get the Dr message. I have primed it and O am pretty certain that there is no air lock. The filter is new but it seems to struggle and it fills up with water then gurgles. It cycles through that. The jets are working. After I reset the fault message, it runs for a while then I get the LF message. So no heating. could it be that I have the low speed and high speed wires on the pump revered? I followed the pump wiring instructions but noticed that the new amp 4 cable that I bought has the black and red wires reveres in the order of how they are installed on the plug. I appreciate any thoughts. It’s driving me nuts thanks This is an 8 year old thread. Start a new thread. Be sure to tell us what type of hottub you have, and the guys around here often like to see a picture or two of the equipment compartment including a picture of the main board to look for any signs of damage on the board itself 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 7 hours ago, Chuck c said: low speed and high speed wires on the pump revered? That's a definite maybe Reset the breaker and wait until it gets to PR then press temp up button once. Does the pump start in low speed or high speed? (assuming there is no circulation pump) If it starts in high speed swap the red and black wires around at the pump. Any time you get a error code on the display remove the filters and run without them until the issue is fixed. New, old, just cleaned remove them. Make sure water level is high enough and above the filters Make sure all gate/slice valves are pulled up Post photos of circuit board and schematic on inside cover 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck c Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 Thanks for your thoughts. Here is a summary of what I am experiencing, but first let me give some specifics on my spa this is an inground spa the system is a Balboa system, installed in 2008 the system uses a VS501Z controller and a VL200 mini panel topside the spa had not been used for a couple of years but I decided to get it going this year initially changed the control board and the heating element it worked fir a few days then stopped it initially displayed messages associated with bad sensors, SN, Sn1 and Sn2, etc. I replaced both sensors. That did not fix the problem. Instead, I started getting the P, HL and LF messages associated with low flow through the heater. I purged the system out of air, ran without the filter for a while and tried all kind of things looking for either an airlock or any kind of obstruction. No use. the system has a main 2 speed pump that feeds the heater as well as the jets. I assume that the heater kicks in on low speed. The pumps works but seems that it only works on one speed either high or low depending on which way I have it wired. There is no circulation pump in the system but it does have a blower pump which works fine. For some reason, the heater does not heat at all. I don’t get any temperature rise at all. after a few days of frustration, I decided to replace the main pump thinking that there is something wrong with the low speed portion. I also decided to replace the cables that connect to the pump to eliminate the possibility of a bad wire. Also decided to replace the entire heating system, including the heating element, the tube, the sensor and the connecting straps that connect the heating element to the control board. I still get the same result. Pump works on one speed only and no heat. After running for an hour or so, I get no temperature rise and eventually get the dr message. I reset and run again. 10 to 15 min later, I get an HL message or an LF message. No my suspicion is shifting to the control board and the circuit that drives the low speed part of the pump willing to try anything and welcome any thoughts thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 Post photos of circuit board and schematic on inside cover 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 3 hours ago, CanadianSpaTech said: Post photos of circuit board and schematic on inside cover You thinking dipswitches too? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck c Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 Was kinda hoping we could see the board installed to see how everything is wired and how the dip switches were set. The VL200 topside is a light Duplex panel and although it is also called a mini oval it is not a Mini Panel. So dip switch A3 should be in the down position. Product description VL200 LCD Top Side Spa Controller with Warm, Jets, Temp, Light button PN 52144 is an 4-button VL200 Light Duplex LCD Control panel. It can be used with the duplex spa packs such as the VS501Z, GS501Z, etc. Comes with 7ft cable with 7-pin RJ45 ethernet style connector. Do you have the spa wired 120VAC or 240VAC and is the new pump 120 or 240? Not sure it is going to fix your problem but make the change and let us know results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck c Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 Thank you Canadian spa jet. Some answers to your questions. Will also post a photo with the controller installed: my system is a 240 volt power installation. My VL 200 topside is the 52144 P/N mini oval with four bottoms: Blower, Jet, Temp and light. The dip switches are configured with only switch no 3 on and all other 9 switches are off. here is a photo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 39 minutes ago, Chuck c said: switch no 3 on Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck c Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 For the mini topside panel. That’s what the instructions say on the schematic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 What I read in the VL200 product description is that it is a LT Duplex panel or Light Duplex panel and A3 should be down but I guess that is for larger Balboa topsides. Need more coffee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 Coffee? I thought you guys up north drank hot real maple syrup in the morning? You're destroying my Canadian dream...🤣 Dipswitches look ok. I suspect a relay issue, probably low speed pump relay. An electronics repair guy can diagnose and replace that much cheaper than buying a new board. But, as everything else is new, you might want to just get the board anyway.🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck c Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 Thank you. You maybe right. A relay is about the only thing that I have not explored. However, this board is only a month old. Replaced the old one because an electrician suspected a bad relay in it too. Not sure if it was the same relay or not. Thanks for your advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 A bad pump can damage a relay, and a bad relay can damage a pump. It's a vicious cycle. That said, triple check your pump wiring. I would also recommend you bring your board to an electronics repair place. They can find and repair any damaged relays far cheaper than buying a new board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 Remove the pump 1 from the circuit board noting the wiring order and test for power coming off the board with the pump button pushed for both low and then hi and see if you have 2 speeds off the circuit board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck c Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 Hello Canadian Spa man, I did what you suggested. Definitely no voltage is carried from the controller to the low speed pump, however, there 240 volt going to high speed. I presume this is a relay issue on the control board. Do you happen to know which relay drives the pump 1? Is one relay or are there 2 one for each speed? If so, do you which relay drives the low speed portion of the pump? Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 Replace them all. Relays are fairly inexpensive. My guy is usually under $150 CDN. Remove the board and have a look on the backside for darkened or burnt areas around the relays On 10/5/2020 at 11:28 PM, Chuck c said: I had recently changed the main control panel as well Seems odd that a new board would fail so quickly are you sure you are testing it correctly? Did you have the same symptoms with the old board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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