Marquis-Beachcomber-Arcticspas-H2O Decision

[Bill1970]

Hi. New and looking forward to joining another forum community to assist me with yet another toy! These forums are priceless..... Ok here are the brands i am looking at.

Arctic Spas - Durango

Marquis - Euphoria

Beach Comber - 700 Series/Hybrid

H2O - Vesuvius/Olympia

Not wet tested any yet, but ready too....

the closest is the Marquis dealer, then Beachcomber, lastly Arctic and H2O.

Models aside....... the companies First.... are they all pretty close to the same quality wise? so looking at more fit than company name, or is there enough of a difference to not bother with one of them?

Service reputations of these dealers for Beachcomber and Marquis are very good... not sure about the arctic and H2O, as to no feedback from people we know who have bought from them.

Living in Muskoka, Central Ontario cold climate is obviously a concern as per insulation, but these models seem to address that adequately.

Any input would be appreciated.....

The other two brands just a bit further out ar sundance and dimension but i think they would be a bit out of my price range. Looking into a range of $7k - absolute top end of $11k CDN ofcourse. Again, any info at all would be appreciated. Thank you.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Service reputations of these dealers for Beachcomber and Marquis are very good... not sure about the arctic and H2O, as to no feedback from people we know who have bought from them.

I don't know H2O but the other 3 brands are all worthy of testing yet I think the beginning of your sentence above would lean me toward Beach or Marquis.

[THE SPA GUY]

BILL1970

all these brands you have listed are good brands, AS Spatech said he is not familiar with H20 i am. I am one of a few dealers in the states for their tubs, I think all these companies are good companies, represented well,i think you definately need to si tin them be it dry or wet,, All the spas are designed for all climates,,, D1, Sundance, Marquis foam filled and pumps contained in unit, H20 insulates their spas with Roxul insulation, Artic uses a thermal chamber, Beachcomber foamed but the pumps are outside of the spa in the step...the D1, SUndance, H20 use low amp 24 hour circ pumps I believe is a big plus. The Marquis and Arctic use the main pump for filter cycles, runs every 12 hours for 2 hours,,,on full foam spa does a fine job, I am not a big fan of a thermal chamber spa without a small low 24 hour circ pump to keep the chamber heated, less heat loss . I would not have issue buying a H20 spa up their , i do not have a lot of service issues with them, Call Mark at the factory he talks to dealers but also talk to customers...again they are all good brands, personally i like the D1, H20, Sundance, Marquis, then Arctic then Beachcomber imo....in the price range you are looking at all brands will have a spa in that range....

[Bill1970]

Its only been a few hours.. thanks for the replies....... Looking further into it, i have a trip to take tomorrow to Barrie, which is an hour south of us to see the D1, Sundance, and i thought H2O dealers. Marquis we previewed yesterday and was also impressed. Will definitely get in the tubs to check them out. anyways, i found out that there wasnt a H2O dealer in Barrie, so i thoughti would call them to see where the closest dealer was..... i got a hold of Jeff the Owner.. cant beleive he took the time to go through so many things with me. I was really impressed. I know theres more to it than that, but it did count for allot in my book. I am really looking forward to continuing my search and thinking i am going to keep the search now to mainly the Marquis, D1 (depending on money), Sundance and H2O. I like the idea of the recirculating pumps though. We are now on "time of use" electrical billing, and when brought up that to marquis, they said they would have to get back to me as to whether they can arrange the pumps to come on before 7am and after 9pm.... its double the cost during peak hours... and the recirc pumps i am told use about 1/15th of a HP to operate. Recirc pumps might be the better option in that regard, if anyone has something to add about that please feel free, in regards to power consumption of recirc vs main jet for filtration. Especially in my case of time of use billing (5.1cents off peak vs 9.9 peak) ...... and ofcoure, any other input to these brands at all... all welcome...... thank you.....

[spawn]

Bill1970 - Enjoy the search. Sometimes buyers get a little overwhelmed by the details and sometimes conflicing information so just try to focus on: good dealer, good manufacturer, comfortable tub. For me, price was also an important part of the decision, but for some buyers, the budget seems to creep up as they see more tubs and in the end they are okay with it.

Arctic, Marquis and Beach Comber are all solid companies. I am not familiar with H2O. I think it is useful for you to expand your search to include D1 and Sundance, as you have decided to do. It gives you more options and more frames of reference when making your decision, even if you don't choose them. I am pretty sure that those two will also have tubs within your price range and don't ignore their lowered priced lines like D1's @home series.

Some buyers end up thinking that there is only one tub that will work for them. For my wife and me, we found about three or four that were comfortable and fit our needs and budget. In the end we felt this helped us get a pretty good deal on the tub we bought because we were willing to walk away if the deal was not attractive to us. On the other hand, we did not go back and worth between dealers, trying the knock their price down - we went with what we felt was the best offer we received.

Spatech is giving very good advice when he emphasizes that you have two dealers with strong service reputations close at hand.

As for energy use, the big factor is the heater. Circ pumps generally use less electricity than a jet pump on low. I am not sure if you could set your filter cycle to once per day and have it come on when electricity is cheap. Then when you use the tub, just have the jets run for half an hour when you get out (I think Marquis does this automatically. It is likely that one jet cycle per day, plus an additional one when you use the tub, would be adequate.

[THE SPA GUY]

bill1970

Nice to hear you called and talked to Jeff, both Jeff and Mark are great in the aspect that they take the time to not just take our calls as a dealer but also talking to consumers,,

[njmurvin]

We are now on "time of use" electrical billing, and when brought up that to marquis, they said they would have to get back to me as to whether they can arrange the pumps to come on before 7am and after 9pm....

If the controller is the same as my Marquis Everyday 660, when you go twice a day, it's every 12hrs. No wonder that stumped them. You could just set it for once a day in the early AM for twice the duration. I feel you on the high electric charges. In SoCal we have a tiered rating system so it doesn't matter what time you use it, it's how much you use. So, for me in my marginal tier, it's $.31/kwh.

[spawn]

Good point njmurvin. Although the peak rate is 4.8 cents more the rates are still low. The difference of 4.8 cents for two hours per day could probably be calculated by someone here, but I doubt that it would amount to much - maybe a couple of bucks per month, if that, and probably less. Always good to save where you can but if the filter times can't be set to both run outside of peak time it probably isn't worth worrying about. The circ pump is very nice to have if you are using an ozonator or have an otherwise loud tub outside your bedroom window.

[THE SPA GUY]

great points spawn

[Bill1970]

Good points people. after looking at the websites, my wife is really like the D1 bay collection.... not sure my bank accounts will like it as much. Couldnt get down to see them yet as on a weekend, most of the places closed at 2 or 3 and wasnt expecting it to be that early. So we are going down on wednesdy. OMG, 31 cents...... thats nuts. i wont complain about hydro now. I use thermal solar heating for domestic hotwater, was thinking about a cedar tub at first and connecting to it, but.... tink the acrylic might be better, easier, and less maintenance. Ok, will let you know how things go on wednesday. thanks again for the input all.

[hottubguy]

Arctic brand is definitely worth a visit to a showroom. There are several dealers in your region, their website lists them.

My link

Arctic Spas brand focus is on energy efficiency, ease of maintenance, and durability in cold climates. They are made in Canada.

New features for 2011 include remote control and monitoring from any smartphone. This enables control from inside the house to check temp, turn lights on, and play music from your phones library to the hot tub sound system. New software revisions in 2011 will allow you or a service tech to monitor and troubleshoot the hot tub from anywhere via the internet. This helps if you are away or its very cold and troubleshooting is needed immediately.

-and they look great!

*full disclosure - I work at the Arctic Spas factory in Alberta

[THE SPA GUY]

Glad to hear Bill your are still checking into them. The D1 bay series spas a great looking spa, yes it will cost you more, The Amore Bay is one of my best sellers,,, it also has a lot of features in there.

hottubguy,

sorry not a fan of thermal chamber spas without a standard 24/7 circ pump,, its great that the have revisions to the their software for in home monitoring( most brands have that available and you get them all aftermarket,,, sorry IMO that is not a big one for me, lets say you spend 10,000 on a hot tubs, it shoulb be ready to use , yes there can be problems with any spa, ON the D1 Bay series they have an IWATCH system on the spa. but lets say you are on vacation the last think=g you want or need to thinking about is the hot tub...is it working or not.....most issues on a hot tub can wait till you get home to be addressed, so it can do diagnostics from a phone, so you find that there is a FLO code it Sunday not much you can do about that at that moment right? the spa should shut down the heater so no other failures...right,,, ..And i sell spas that are full foam, thermal chamber, Roxul, an fiberglass insulations....again this is my opinion on but to troubleshoot on the internet if it is cold,,, are you worried about a spa freezing in a short amount of time....just a question...

[Water Boy]

Glad to hear Bill your are still checking into them. The D1 bay series spas a great looking spa, yes it will cost you more, The Amore Bay is one of my best sellers,,, it also has a lot of features in there.

hottubguy,

sorry not a fan of thermal chamber spas without a standard 24/7 circ pump,, its great that the have revisions to the their software for in home monitoring( most brands have that available and you get them all aftermarket,,, sorry IMO that is not a big one for me, lets say you spend 10,000 on a hot tubs, it shoulb be ready to use , yes there can be problems with any spa, ON the D1 Bay series they have an IWATCH system on the spa. but lets say you are on vacation the last think=g you want or need to thinking about is the hot tub...is it working or not.....most issues on a hot tub can wait till you get home to be addressed, so it can do diagnostics from a phone, so you find that there is a FLO code it Sunday not much you can do about that at that moment right? the spa should shut down the heater so no other failures...right,,, ..And i sell spas that are full foam, thermal chamber, Roxul, an fiberglass insulations....again this is my opinion on but to troubleshoot on the internet if it is cold,,, are you worried about a spa freezing in a short amount of time....just a question...

24/7 circ pumps are available on all 2011 Arctic Spas.

[hottubguy]

Glad to hear Bill your are still checking into them. The D1 bay series spas a great looking spa, yes it will cost you more, The Amore Bay is one of my best sellers,,, it also has a lot of features in there.

hottubguy,

sorry not a fan of thermal chamber spas without a standard 24/7 circ pump,, its great that the have revisions to the their software for in home monitoring( most brands have that available and you get them all aftermarket,,, sorry IMO that is not a big one for me, lets say you spend 10,000 on a hot tubs, it shoulb be ready to use , yes there can be problems with any spa, ON the D1 Bay series they have an IWATCH system on the spa. but lets say you are on vacation the last think=g you want or need to thinking about is the hot tub...is it working or not.....most issues on a hot tub can wait till you get home to be addressed, so it can do diagnostics from a phone, so you find that there is a FLO code it Sunday not much you can do about that at that moment right? the spa should shut down the heater so no other failures...right,,, ..And i sell spas that are full foam, thermal chamber, Roxul, an fiberglass insulations....again this is my opinion on but to troubleshoot on the internet if it is cold,,, are you worried about a spa freezing in a short amount of time....just a question...

Nope, not worried about freezing without power, Arctic will go the longest, for sure, before freezing of water in plumbing or pumps. The heat stored in the water is not insulated from the plumbing and equipment - only acrylic and fiberglass separate them - the insulation is in the most logical place, the perimeter. Any amount of foam on the back of the shell or filling the cabinet between the water and the plumbing/equipment will delay or block the heat transfer and decrease the ability of the heat in the water to delay freezing of the internal components.(sorry to raise the debate yet again, but seriously for cold weather its the best way).

-The remote troubleshooting is more of a benefit if going away for more than a couple weeks, or for people who would rather not deal with it (the dealer can monitor the hot tub for them and tell the customer when there is a problem, rather than the other way around). Remote troubleshooting will really start to show value once the warranty has expired, the dealer will often be able to prevent a visit to site and therefore reduce the cost to fix it.

Anyway, these are just options. And like most options on an Arctic they can be added at any point in the future once the customer has had time to use their spa and decide what they really want in it. (Yes, we do sell lots of onsite upgrades, and yes it definitely is easier to add components without foam to dig through...I remember earlier debates )

Just thought I would recommend Arctic.

Have a great day all!

[Pathfinder]

Ok, ease up with the sales pitch. Hottubguy, how many brands of spas have you sold/fixed before being at the factory w Arctic? I really think you should search for Toms old posts & learn from Waterboy on how to represent Arctic.

[bdubya200]

i think he is representing his brand quite fairly.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

i think he is representing his brand quite fairly.

Sometimes theres a fine line between being a big fan of your product and layering it on thick as if you're reading from a Marketing script. IMO he's fine, especially since he's new which is the time where people are typically the most over the top that they'll ever be on this site.

[THE SPA GUY]

hey Waterboy, i forgot you told me that before, thanks for the reminder,,,

hottubguy its great your on here, but how do really know that they will go the longest, compared to other thermal chamber spas like Clearwater, Thermospas, Master, to name just a few, has there been independent testing of that,,,, and if i was against full foam spas like D1, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Hot Springs, to name a few,, i am not trying to say one is better than the other i think your fact is a little off, like Pathfinder said what other spas lines have you dealt with, in the field, or in the showroom, ok the remote is a good idea, but again someone has to monitor it, so does the system automatically send a email to the dealer when their is a problem going on...on the aftermarket sales, with our thermal chamber spas i sell we can do the same thing , but not very often do we do that actually i have never added on anything ...sorry i sell both insulations as well as a spa with Roxul, so i do know how long each can go before issues, since i sell them and service them....

[bdubya200]

i think he is representing his brand quite fairly.

Sometimes theres a fine line between being a big fan of your product and layering it on thick as if you're reading from a Marketing script. IMO he's fine, especially since he's new which is the time where people are typically the most over the top that they'll ever be on this site.

Theres also a fine line between people being helpful and constructive, and being rude to someone presenting information.

A new poster asked for opinions on the brands, and he got a lot of great info...some directly from a Arctic representative.

All is well.

[bdubya200]

Hey Bill...one thing...The Durango, while made by the same company as Arctic, is technically a Coyote Spa, not an Arctic.

They had a very different feel from the Arctics when I researched them. Some very clear similarities, but it was worth pointing out...but Im sure you already knew that.

[spawn]

Some don't mind an occassional aggressive dealer on here. But most appreciate it when the dealers use some restraint, otherwise this forum would degenerate into just a series of sales pitches in every thread.

But it is very helpful when we can have a Q&A about the products from different manufacturers. The new feature from Arctic that allows "remote control and monitoring from any smartphone. This enables control from inside the house to check temp, turn lights on, and play music from your phones library to the hot tub sound system. New software revisions in 2011 will allow you or a service tech to monitor and troubleshoot the hot tub from anywhere via the internet. This helps if you are away or its very cold and troubleshooting is needed immediately." is intriguing. Personally I cannot imagine checking temp or turning on lights from inside the house or playing the phone music library on the tub sound system but there may be some who would. Similarly, I cannot imagine having the dealer monitor my tub while I am out of town or checking on it myself while away, but maybe there is someone who might. I guess, what I am thinking is that this feature will add complexity to the tub and control system and I just really like to try to keep things simple. And I know that sometimes, over time a control will fail and need to be replaced. So my question is:

If the controler which has this smart phone / remote monitioring feature fails, can I purchase a replacement from anyone but Arctic? What would be Arctic's price to replace the controller if it failed?

[spawn]

Also, it is interesting that Arctic is now providing tubs wth circ pumps when, for so many years, they did not. I was never clear on the reasons they were not available with circ pumps, but they must have had their reasons. Is Arctic using a new special kind of circ pump that somehow overcomes their reluctance to use them in the past or are these just typical circ pumps?

Thanks

[bdubya200]

Personally I cannot imagine checking temp or turning on lights from inside the house or playing the phone music library on the tub sound system but there may be some who would. Similarly, I cannot imagine having the dealer monitor my tub while I am out of town or checking on it myself while away, but maybe there is someone who might.

It sounds like something wouldnt use often, but if I were able to occasioanlly log in and ramp up temp from economy mode, or simply check on the tub( and subsequent power supply feeding tub and cabin) after a big snow storm, that would save me a lot of time and grief considering my cabin is over an hour away.

I too wonder what the replacement cost would be. When SHopping for tubs, the Arctic dealer int own showed me this new option, but said that he would be including it on new tub purchases to start out with, so I never got to see what it would 'cost.' To me, it seems like any other non essential option ( lights, stero, etc)...fine and cool during the time period it works and during warranty, but not really likely to replace it once it breaks after the fact.

[waylon33]

Personally I cannot imagine checking temp or turning on lights from inside the house or playing the phone music library on the tub sound system but there may be some who would. Similarly, I cannot imagine having the dealer monitor my tub while I am out of town or checking on it myself while away, but maybe there is someone who might.

It sounds like something wouldnt use often, but if I were able to occasioanlly log in and ramp up temp from economy mode, or simply check on the tub( and subsequent power supply feeding tub and cabin) after a big snow storm, that would save me a lot of time and grief considering my cabin is over an hour away.

I too wonder what the replacement cost would be. When SHopping for tubs, the Arctic dealer int own showed me this new option, but said that he would be including it on new tub purchases to start out with, so I never got to see what it would 'cost.' To me, it seems like any other non essential option ( lights, stero, etc)...fine and cool during the time period it works and during warranty, but not really likely to replace it once it breaks after the fact.

The cost to replace the wifi on the pack or the bluetooth on the pack would be very minimal. Obviously every dealer has their own margins and cost but, I would estimate it between 150 to 200 dollars to replace after warranty. As far as the circ pump goes, I think Arctic now puts them on so the competition has one less thing to combat us with. I still dont think they do all that much, (the water flow they create is very minimal) but that arguement really doesnt matter anymore since we have them.

The wifi/bluetooth technology is different than any other brand supplies to this day, they actually have a app available on the Apples app store now for download. As far as turning lights on from the house, with Arctics new perimeter lighting that is attached to the cabinet of the spa its convenient to be able to turn the lights on before heading out to the spa for some extra light. These are things that some people wont care about, but some do, and Ive had several that have bought 2011 spas for these accessories already.

just my .02 cents

[THE SPA GUY]

but the question to it is the software, how does that work with the Iphone or internet, phone jacks to house???? just curious, if you have an iphone whats sending the signal via interent or phone....