spawn Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Not an owner, but was recently just shown details on the 2011 Arctics that supposedly address the issue of retaining too much heat with the heatlock you mention. Ill share. Not sure what I think about it, and I didnt actually SEE it, just was told that to address the issue of them retaining heat TOO well ins ummer, they are actually creating a one way vent to the outside that will utilize the ame idea as a p-trap in plumbing. Something along those lines. A p-trap in plumbing uses a small amount of water to STOP the flow of air back up the drain! Hmmmmmmm I will have to see the dynamics of it in order to understand if it's spin or a viable solution. I knew Id do a bad job of explaining it. No water, just utlizing difference in density of hot vs cold air utilizing a small pipe shaped similarly to a ptrap.. Dont quote me, just know that I was told that there was solution to that in the 2011's coming out. My apologies. Eager to see how this will work - it is not obvious to me. It is a pesky occassional problem that full foam tubs don't have to address. The Arctic chiller I understand and think it will work well, it's just expensive and seems peculiar to have an air conditioning unit sticking out the side of your hot tub. The vented panels seem like they would solve the problem with the overheating but on the other hand, what happens when the temperature drops at night? Does the heater have to run more since temp in the enclosure would drop with vented panels versus the usual panel. Anyway, it is good to hear that Arctic is trying to find a sensible solution to the problem. Maybe they can develop a system similar to green houses that vent when the temp is too high and close when the temp drops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylon33 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Not an owner, but was recently just shown details on the 2011 Arctics that supposedly address the issue of retaining too much heat with the heatlock you mention. Ill share. Not sure what I think about it, and I didnt actually SEE it, just was told that to address the issue of them retaining heat TOO well ins ummer, they are actually creating a one way vent to the outside that will utilize the ame idea as a p-trap in plumbing. Something along those lines. A p-trap in plumbing uses a small amount of water to STOP the flow of air back up the drain! Hmmmmmmm I will have to see the dynamics of it in order to understand if it's spin or a viable solution. I knew Id do a bad job of explaining it. No water, just utlizing difference in density of hot vs cold air utilizing a small pipe shaped similarly to a ptrap.. Dont quote me, just know that I was told that there was solution to that in the 2011's coming out. My apologies. Eager to see how this will work - it is not obvious to me. It is a pesky occassional problem that full foam tubs don't have to address. The Arctic chiller I understand and think it will work well, it's just expensive and seems peculiar to have an air conditioning unit sticking out the side of your hot tub. The vented panels seem like they would solve the problem with the overheating but on the other hand, what happens when the temperature drops at night? Does the heater have to run more since temp in the enclosure would drop with vented panels versus the usual panel. Anyway, it is good to hear that Arctic is trying to find a sensible solution to the problem. Maybe they can develop a system similar to green houses that vent when the temp is too high and close when the temp drops. Just a little FYI lots of foam filled spas in our climate struggle with overheating in our summer temps. I hear it from customers that own all the major brands. The Arctic Louvered doors or tennis balls under the door work well at resolving the extra heat. The design on the 2011's is superb, it will have a fan that turns on to cool during extreme hot days, but wont affect the insulation factor during other times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdubya200 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 I sort of remember that( mention of fan) now. I apologize for screwing that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spa God Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Why is the whole pump heating the spa such a big deal? When the heater stops functioning on a full foamed hot tub with the pumps under the cabinet the tub stays hot from the motor heat as well... they also have the same overheating issues in the summer... The heat from the motors is sucked in through the venturis, in the pump area, and the ozone and injected back into the water... And Full foamed tubs loose heat more slowly because there is more insulation! THERE ARE NO MAGIC BULLETS FOR INSULATION... The Arctic heat loc is good and no better or worse than any well insulated spa... its a gimmicky marketing to justify an over inflated price. And a down side to Arctics systems... run the pumps on high for a couple minutes and you Have sucked all the heated air out of the spa enclosure through the venturis... And if it is winter you have just filled the cabinet with freezing air... (something you avoid on a full foamed spa as you only fill the front equipment compartment). Now all their "science" of the heat absorption on the plumbing and the shell turns around and bites them in the butt because the freezing air in the compartment is now working against the efficiency just as aggressively as they claim the hot air from the motors does... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Boy Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Why is the whole pump heating the spa such a big deal? When the heater stops functioning on a full foamed hot tub with the pumps under the cabinet the tub stays hot from the motor heat as well... they also have the same overheating issues in the summer... The heat from the motors is sucked in through the venturis, in the pump area, and the ozone and injected back into the water... And Full foamed tubs loose heat more slowly because there is more insulation! THERE ARE NO MAGIC BULLETS FOR INSULATION... The Arctic heat loc is good and no better or worse than any well insulated spa... its a gimmicky marketing to justify an over inflated price And a down side to Arctics systems... run the pumps on high for a couple minutes and you Have sucked all the heated air out of the spa enclosure through the venturis... And if it is winter you have just filled the cabinet with freezing air... (something you avoid on a full foamed spa as you only fill the front equipment compartment). Now all their "science" of the heat absorption on the plumbing and the shell turns around and bites them in the butt because the freezing air in the compartment is now working against the efficiency just as aggressively as they claim the hot air from the motors does... That last part is a complete farse, and just gimmicy sales talk on your part Robert. I can speak first hand that this isn't true. In fact, I have sat in my tub in the winter which is outdoors, and I have actually gained a degree while sitting in the tub. Example, it went from 102 degrees to 103. I completely disagree with your statement for the record. Now, a air blower for example would hold true to what you said, but not by running the pumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 That last part is a complete farse, and just gimmicy sales talk on your part Robert. I can speak first hand that this isn't true. In fact, I have sat in my tub in the winter which is outdoors, and I have actually gained a degree while sitting in the tub. Example, it went from 102 degrees to 103. I completely disagree with your statement for the record. Now, a air blower for example would hold true to what you said, but not by running the pumps. Any air injection system (not on all tubs) draws it's air from the inside of the cabinet/equipment bay. Whether it's by blower or venturies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylon33 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 That last part is a complete farse, and just gimmicy sales talk on your part Robert. I can speak first hand that this isn't true. In fact, I have sat in my tub in the winter which is outdoors, and I have actually gained a degree while sitting in the tub. Example, it went from 102 degrees to 103. I completely disagree with your statement for the record. Now, a air blower for example would hold true to what you said, but not by running the pumps. Any air injection system (not on all tubs) draws it's air from the inside of the cabinet/equipment bay. Whether it's by blower or venturies. Arctic always holds the temperature during the coldest of times. Even with both pumps on. You are full of it with the freezin cold air thing. Doesnt happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spa God Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Ok wait a minute here... you can't change the laws of physics for your marketing convenience, and neither of your arguments hold any water. So what if your spa stays hot in the winter??? All spas do this, its called a 5kw heater. and it has nothing to do with whether the air in the cabinet is hot or not. This is not an arguable point... the air must get colder... FACT: Your venturis and your ozone draw their air from inside the cabinet. FACT: With even a basic single pump systems on high speed the venturis alone will use all this air every couple of minutes. FACT: Once you take air out of the cabinet outside cold air must replace it... Guys this is just common sense... Put a digital thermometer under in the cabinet on a spa outside in the winter with your pump on high and your venturi's open and you will see the air temperature decrease under the cabinet until it is very near the outside temperature... The spa water will stay hot, but that's only because the heater is running... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Boy Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Ok wait a minute here... you can't change the laws of physics for your marketing convenience, and neither of your arguments hold any water. So what if your spa stays hot in the winter??? All spas do this, its called a 5kw heater. and it has nothing to do with whether the air in the cabinet is hot or not. This is not an arguable point... the air must get colder... FACT: Your venturis and your ozone draw their air from inside the cabinet. FACT: With even a basic single pump systems on high speed the venturis alone will use all this air every couple of minutes. FACT: Once you take air out of the cabinet outside cold air must replace it... Guys this is just common sense... Put a digital thermometer under in the cabinet on a spa outside in the winter with your pump on high and your venturi's open and you will see the air temperature decrease under the cabinet until it is very near the outside temperature... The spa water will stay hot, but that's only because the heater is running... This is getting old and repetitive. There is no debating with some of you "experts" I don't need to get that technical. I told you what is true of mine and many our our customers situations. I have a three pump spa. When I run all three pumps, including in the winter, sometimes I will gain a degree over my set temperature. Yes it does have a heater and the heater will heat when needed, but it will only heat to the set temperature if a degree is lost. The spa is gaining a degree over the set temp just like in the example I listed earlier, not from the heater, but from the pumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylon33 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Ok wait a minute here... you can't change the laws of physics for your marketing convenience, and neither of your arguments hold any water. So what if your spa stays hot in the winter??? All spas do this, its called a 5kw heater. and it has nothing to do with whether the air in the cabinet is hot or not. This is not an arguable point... the air must get colder... FACT: Your venturis and your ozone draw their air from inside the cabinet. FACT: With even a basic single pump systems on high speed the venturis alone will use all this air every couple of minutes. FACT: Once you take air out of the cabinet outside cold air must replace it... Guys this is just common sense... Put a digital thermometer under in the cabinet on a spa outside in the winter with your pump on high and your venturi's open and you will see the air temperature decrease under the cabinet until it is very near the outside temperature... The spa water will stay hot, but that's only because the heater is running... This is getting old and repetitive. There is no debating with some of you "experts" I don't need to get that technical. I told you what is true of mine and many our our customers situations. I have a three pump spa. When I run all three pumps, including in the winter, sometimes I will gain a degree over my set temperature. Yes it does have a heater and the heater will heat when needed, but it will only heat to the set temperature if a degree is lost. The spa is gaining a degree over the set temp just like in the example I listed earlier, not from the heater, but from the pumps. funny that you say the heater is the one keeping it hot, but on my spa (arctic) the temperature has to DROP below set temp to turn the heater on. I have never seen my spa drop below set temp when Im using it. Your physics education class you gave me, sounds reasonable, and very true, Im just giving you real life situations. Fact is Arctics as good as any, and funny how everytime this is mentioned people pile on endlessly to argue it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spa God Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Yes a three pump system might generate enough heat to warm the cold air coming in when they are all on... On a not too cold winter day... My three pump system (full foam) also increases this way. but that does not change the fact that the cold air from outside must be filling the cabinet... (On my spa it will only fill the front area) The argument was that the freezing cold air does full the cabinet... as it must, as the air is injected into the spa... and unless you are running three pumps, it will cool under the cabinet... So I amend my statement.... unless you have a tub full of people and while you are are using three pumps on high at the same time... then you will fill the cabinet with cold air... and if you are thinking that it is an efficient way to heat your tub (running three pumps) then think again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Boy Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Yes a three pump system might generate enough heat to warm the cold air coming in when they are all on... On a not too cold winter day... My three pump system (full foam) also increases this way. but that does not change the fact that the cold air from outside must be filling the cabinet... (On my spa it will only fill the front area) The argument was that the freezing cold air does full the cabinet... as it must, as the air is injected into the spa... and unless you are running three pumps, it will cool under the cabinet... So I amend my statement.... unless you have a tub full of people and while you are are using three pumps on high at the same time... then you will fill the cabinet with cold air... and if you are thinking that it is an efficient way to heat your tub (running three pumps) then think again... Well, my good friend Lakota who has a two pump spa does the exact same thing. I have sat in there with him when it did it. Again, real life examples. What is it you are trying to prove here? What you said earlier was wrong. I have never said that it solely heats off of the motor 24/7. I am not sure where we are going here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hottubguy Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 If anyone would like clarification about any of the features or warranty directly from Arctic Spas HQ in Canada, please call us: 780-789-2626 1-800-309-1744 (toll free) or ArcticSpas.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 By the way wait til you see the 2011's coming out, they are next to none! Well, I guess the 2010's were pretty good too. Fact is Arctics as good as any, and funny how everytime this is mentioned people pile on endlessly to argue it. Glad to see we are making progress Waylon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylon33 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 By the way wait til you see the 2011's coming out, they are next to none! Well, I guess the 2010's were pretty good too. Fact is Arctics as good as any, and funny how everytime this is mentioned people pile on endlessly to argue it. Glad to see we are making progress Waylon! Well kinda what Ive been saying all along! Next to none would mean we dont take back seat to anyone, just like good as any! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 I have never said that it solely heats off of the motor 24/7. I am not sure where we are going here. No it was Waylon that said that but the first time I heard that was 10 years ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 By the way wait til you see the 2011's coming out, they are next to none! Well, I guess the 2010's were pretty good too. Fact is Arctics as good as any, and funny how everytime this is mentioned people pile on endlessly to argue it. Glad to see we are making progress Waylon! Well kinda what Ive been saying all along! Next to none would mean we dont take back seat to anyone, just like good as any! You keep forgeting to say in your opinion. I would say your in the trunk with 4-5 others riding up front. And that's my opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylon33 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 I have never said that it solely heats off of the motor 24/7. I am not sure where we are going here. No it was Waylon that said that but the first time I heard that was 10 years ago! No, what I was saying was that the spa CAN heat solely off the pumps. Arctics don't rely on it solely, cause its not the most efficient way to do it. In my opinion though, its more efficient to use waste heat ALONG with a heater. In my opinion, your opinion is slanted, but thats just my opinion! Plus, I bet you that soon some energy testing is going to be done by different agencies than the CEC. Proof will be in the pudding there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdubya200 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Would love to be able to see those numbers for myself, in any form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE SPA GUY Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 its funny on how all the spins and such are flowing.....On the original he was looking at the diferances of the Clearwater and the Arctic, they both have the same concepts of heating. Thermal chamber ....as earlier i said that the Clearwater has the 24/7 circ pump. and the Arctic main pump runs 2 hours every 12 hours and can be adjusted to run longer, I believe Waterboy said that Arctic now shows the 24/7 circ pump an option. that must be brand new i sell against them all the time... and this was the first time i heard that....and if this is an option that would throw out the theory of the waste energy heating the tub right! And as was stated earlier that the 2010 Arctics were great, but now the 2011's they have addressed many things on the spas from 2010. but if they were already that good how come they had to address things like overheatng in warmer climates... Arctic makes a good spa as well as Clearwater, D1 , Sundance, Jacuzzi, Hot Springs,,, everyone has a differnt way of building he mousetrap, I like the spins on the lifetime warranty. We can go round and round on all brands, 2 companies listed here have a lifetime warranty on the shells, D1 and Artic, but read the fine print to see what is covered an what is not,,,,also with all the brands the thickness of the shells is a farce....most manufacturers use Lucite and Aristech shells, they have different ways of backing them....I can tell you from personal experience that in a power outage situation the full foam spa will last longer than a thermal chamber spa will from freezing... also on the testing, it may not be perfect but the CEC if the best we got right now,,,,But again these are all good brands, alot better than others out there. even like the Four Winds i got a good look at this weekend, Here is a thermal chamber spa similiar to the Arctic, Clearwater, Master, THermo spas, the dealer posted that they are an R47 insulation Value,what a croc....but we all have are own opinions on the sales spin,Some of us have sold multiple brands and experienced of lot of this mess..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylon33 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 its funny on how all the spins and such are flowing.....On the original he was looking at the diferances of the Clearwater and the Arctic, they both have the same concepts of heating. Thermal chamber ....as earlier i said that the Clearwater has the 24/7 circ pump. and the Arctic main pump runs 2 hours every 12 hours and can be adjusted to run longer, I believe Waterboy said that Arctic now shows the 24/7 circ pump an option. that must be brand new i sell against them all the time... and this was the first time i heard that....and if this is an option that would throw out the theory of the waste energy heating the tub right! And as was stated earlier that the 2010 Arctics were great, but now the 2011's they have addressed many things on the spas from 2010. but if they were already that good how come they had to address things like overheatng in warmer climates... Arctic makes a good spa as well as Clearwater, D1 , Sundance, Jacuzzi, Hot Springs,,, everyone has a differnt way of building he mousetrap, I like the spins on the lifetime warranty. We can go round and round on all brands, 2 companies listed here have a lifetime warranty on the shells, D1 and Artic, but read the fine print to see what is covered an what is not,,,,also with all the brands the thickness of the shells is a farce....most manufacturers use Lucite and Aristech shells, they have different ways of backing them....I can tell you from personal experience that in a power outage situation the full foam spa will last longer than a thermal chamber spa will from freezing... also on the testing, it may not be perfect but the CEC if the best we got right now,,,,But again these are all good brands, alot better than others out there. even like the Four Winds i got a good look at this weekend, Here is a thermal chamber spa similiar to the Arctic, Clearwater, Master, THermo spas, the dealer posted that they are an R47 insulation Value,what a croc....but we all have are own opinions on the sales spin,Some of us have sold multiple brands and experienced of lot of this mess..... The Arctic will for sure perform as good as any full foam spa out there in a power outage. I too have seen this firsthand. Again, all we have is the CEC testing for now, which by the way is absolutely bogus, just look at the numbers that Dynasty reported. Other studies will be done and will be much more regulated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Most arctics are no longer built with gecko controls by the way. Your information is outdated. As ask before what is Arctic using now? Can this be confirmed its Balboa or is it the logical step up to an Aeware XM pack still made gecko. Anyone, anybody Bueller, Bueller??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spa God Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I'm going to guess it is not Balboa... they are avoiding the question for too long... If it was balboa they would have said so right away... too bad... still bad blood there I guess :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Boy Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I'm going to guess it is not Balboa... they are avoiding the question for too long... If it was balboa they would have said so right away... too bad... still bad blood there I guess :-) No that is not it at all. No bad blood. It is fun watching the wolves squirm though! Plus, why would be be quick to tell ya Robert. It could be made out of gold and be the next best thing since sliced bread, and you will find a way to bash it. Anyways, it's no secret. See for yourselves.Arctic Controls I have seen this pack up close and it is impressive. The future is endless with this pack. Very excited to offer the onspa feature to all of my customers going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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