Lowering Higher Electric Bills

[JetCaptain]

Well, we have had our 2010 Sundance Cameo for about 3 months now and the first real electric bill arrived after 2 months of use. The former bill was $133 and this months' bill is $185. And that is only using it for an hour 4 times a week!

My question is, what one thing have any of you guys done to try to keep the electric bill lower? Just say the hell with it? Buy a thermal blanket? Get a new cover that is thicker? Set the temperature lower when it is not in use?

I know this is a question that has been probably beat to death; but after checking the archives, I couldn't find a definitive answer. Any suggestions would be a huge help and I thank you!

[Roger]

Well, we have had our 2010 Sundance Cameo for about 3 months now and the first real electric bill arrived after 2 months of use. The former bill was $133 and this months' bill is $185. And that is only using it for an hour 4 times a week!

My question is, what one thing have any of you guys done to try to keep the electric bill lower? Just say the hell with it? Buy a thermal blanket? Get a new cover that is thicker? Set the temperature lower when it is not in use?

I know this is a question that has been probably beat to death; but after checking the archives, I couldn't find a definitive answer. Any suggestions would be a huge help and I thank you!

Where are you located? Because in my neck of the woods a 50 dollar bill for a month with lows going to -25F tonight and generaly no more than 10 degrees or so for the high for the whole month. And, what are your rates per KWH?

There are several things you can do including a thermal blanket an extreme cover, adjust your filtering cycles and even as far as adding an insulating blaket around the outside for the winter depending on the astetics of your particular tub situation.

[JetCaptain]

We are located near Akron Ohio and the temps have been from single digits at night to high 20's during the day. It will get much colder than that according to our history. We are paying 6.61 cents/KWH. According to the bill, we have used twice the number of KWH as last January which was without the tub. Just curious if anyone has found 1 good solution for getting the bill down or just sucking it up. It won't make us go broke, but the friendly salesman said our bill might go up around 20-25 dollars a month. I only half believed him though! Thanks again, JC

[PFC5]

We are located near Akron Ohio and the temps have been from single digits at night to high 20's during the day. It will get much colder than that according to our history. We are paying 6.61 cents/KWH. According to the bill, we have used twice the number of KWH as last January which was without the tub. Just curious if anyone has found 1 good solution for getting the bill down or just sucking it up. It won't make us go broke, but the friendly salesman said our bill might go up around 20-25 dollars a month. I only half believed him though! Thanks again, JC

I bought a much cheaper spa than you have (from Home Depot) and the temps have been about the same here but my bill only went up about $35.00 this latest month (my rate is higher at 0.119/kWh) compared to the previous year. I had a bill when I first got it at about $95.00 (and the average mean temp outside was almost 20 degrees warmer that month compared to this latest month), so I added insulation to my spa which does not have a lot of perimeter insulation. Mine only had about R-4 on the sides so I added R-19 faced rolls to the sides and also Tuff-R rigid insulating panels inside that with a reflective side going towards the center.

You likely have much more insulation from the factory than I had, so you might want to just add some Tuff-R on the inside of the cabinet walls to yours. Also make sure the cover is put on tight after each use. I started a thread explaining what I did here.

[Roger]

We are located near Akron Ohio and the temps have been from single digits at night to high 20's during the day. It will get much colder than that according to our history. We are paying 6.61 cents/KWH. According to the bill, we have used twice the number of KWH as last January which was without the tub. Just curious if anyone has found 1 good solution for getting the bill down or just sucking it up. It won't make us go broke, but the friendly salesman said our bill might go up around 20-25 dollars a month. I only half believed him though! Thanks again, JC

With it going to 50 this time of year and 10-15 in the summer months your deal could be close at 25, but more like 30-35 for that tub.

The only way to know for sure is to meter the tub, anyone says any other number and it's meaningless.

[Roger]

We are located near Akron Ohio and the temps have been from single digits at night to high 20's during the day. It will get much colder than that according to our history. We are paying 6.61 cents/KWH. According to the bill, we have used twice the number of KWH as last January which was without the tub. Just curious if anyone has found 1 good solution for getting the bill down or just sucking it up. It won't make us go broke, but the friendly salesman said our bill might go up around 20-25 dollars a month. I only half believed him though! Thanks again, JC

I bought a much cheaper spa than you have (from Home Depot) and the temps have been about the same here but my bill only went up about $35.00 this latest month (my rate is higher at 0.119/kWh) compared to the previous year. I had a bill when I first got it at about $95.00 (and the average mean temp outside was almost 20 degrees warmer that month compared to this latest month), so I added insulation to my spa which does not have a lot of perimeter insulation. Mine only had about R-4 on the sides so I added R-19 faced rolls to the sides and also Tuff-R rigid insulating panels inside that with a reflective side going towards the center.

You likely have much more insulation from the factory than I had, so you might want to just add some Tuff-R on the inside of the cabinet walls to yours. Also make sure the cover is put on tight after each use. I started a thread explaining what I did here.

Don't take the sides off OP you can't get any insulation in there, it's foamed all the way on three sides. You could play a little bit on one side but don't worry about it.

[hd2000]

To begin with, you can not compare monthly bills without factoring in the temperature. If you are comparing last year to this year, you still neeed to consider the temp. I live close to you and I've had a spa for many years. I can tell you that ON AVERAGE during the winter months, my spa costs me about $20 a month to run. This winter, I have a smaller spa than in the past, but my $20 number is from running a Sundance Marin. This has been a colder winter than average so far. For example, we have had 18 days where the temperature has been below average this month. In December, we had 22 days that were below average. If I were you, I'd probably just say the hell with it. A thicker cover really will not save you much in the long run especially when you factor in the original cost. The thermal blanket may be a better option and I'd totally forget about trying to add any more insulation to the tub cabinet itself. I think over the long haul, your cost to run the spa will balance out to a number that's much lower than the $52 you see now, which all things considered, seems way high even with the below average winter we've had. I don't believe I've ever in over 25 years of spa ownership paid that much to run my tub. Checking the filter cycles is another good suggestion.

[PFC5]

When I go to the link below and compare temps from the previous year to this year the average mean temp difference is only 3 degrees where I live:

[/url]Weather History

Since I have oil heat such a small temp difference shouldn't effect the average kWh much. If his spa already have good insulation on 3 sides (I am sure much better than mine had), then he could just get the rigid Tuff-R board for the access panel side if there is room to help radiate the heat back in. Also putting it around the outside on all 4 sides and using duck tape to hold it on could help as well but will look bad. But it will add additional insulating that can be easily removed in the spring and also help seal out air drafts.

[dark rider]

I doubt it was the spa alone, if your bill jumped $50. Did you have a ton of Christmas lights out as well? Granted, I live in a warmer climate (Atlanta), but my bill only went up $10-$20 a month with a 2010 Grandee, and I'm using it for an hour nightly!

[PoolSpaGuy30]

I doubt it was the spa alone, if your bill jumped $50. Did you have a ton of Christmas lights out as well? Granted, I live in a warmer climate (Atlanta), but my bill only went up $10-$20 a month with a 2010 Grandee, and I'm using it for an hour nightly!

this...without hooking a meter up to spa everything is pure guesses and speculation

[kjmccort221]

I doubt it was the spa alone, if your bill jumped $50. Did you have a ton of Christmas lights out as well? Granted, I live in a warmer climate (Atlanta), but my bill only went up $10-$20 a month with a 2010 Grandee, and I'm using it for an hour nightly!

reason yours is lower is because your circulation pump uses much less energy than what the Cameo has. Sundance's website does esitmate about $30 increase in your electric bill, and that is only at 45 degrees. I can only imagine what it would be for single digits... and that is what is posted on their website. Here is the link for you to see.

Sundance Cameo

[hd2000]

this...without hooking a meter up to spa everything is pure guesses and speculation

It might be speculation, but that jump at his rates is way out of line for that spa. If the OP is comparing a October or November bill to a December bill and does not have electric heat, there is something else involved because the spa alone is not causing the jump. Others have given some reasonable, and some not so reasonable ideas to lower whatever the spa cost is, but a new Sundance Cameo isn't going to run you that much at 6.6 cents a kwh. If you are using it for several hours per day and occasionally leaving the cover off, OK, but anything near normal use isn't going to make your bill jump like that.

[JetCaptain]

Thanks to all for your insights. I am back in town and checking the filter settings today. I asked the salesman at Litehouse Pools what he would do and said to just leave everything at default settings. According to the user guide, these run times can be adjusted. I thought of just lowering the temperature on the panel to around 80 and then turning it back up to 102 when we use the tub since we only use it every other day when it is this crappy outside. Don't know if this would make any difference since no one mentioned it. Might just lose the savings by having to heat the water back up to 102. Again thanks!

[hot_water]

Thanks to all for your insights. I am back in town and checking the filter settings today. I asked the salesman at Litehouse Pools what he would do and said to just leave everything at default settings. According to the user guide, these run times can be adjusted. I thought of just lowering the temperature on the panel to around 80 and then turning it back up to 102 when we use the tub since we only use it every other day when it is this crappy outside. Don't know if this would make any difference since no one mentioned it. Might just lose the savings by having to heat the water back up to 102. Again thanks!

Here are a few thoughts on your question.

First of all, with your very low rates, your electricit bill increase due to the spa shouldn't be very much, even in cold weather. I would expect your average yearly costs to be somewhere around $30 a month... more in cold months, less in warm ones... but average about $30.

Usage is very important. You lose a lot of heat from a spa directly from the surface of the water when the cover is off. One thing I do in cold weather is heat the spa up one or two degrees higher than my ideal soaking temp, then set it so the heater will not come on during the soak. Having the heater. The temp will sag a degree or two, and this is usually ok. THe higher the temp, the lower amount of time I want to be in, so having it start out a bit high and then drop a little as time goes by actually works out well. If it drops too much, and you're not comfortable, then this tip isn't for you. The reason it works to save energy is the same reason you don't want to run your home's space heater with the doors and windows open - you end up losing a high percentage of the energy.

Another thing you can think about is not using the air injection as much when running the jets. Some spas use warm air from the cabinet and some use outside (cold) air. Obviously injecting warm air will be better than cold, but any operation with the air on causes you to lose heat from the water. If you absolutely have to have the air on at all times, then this won't work for you.

Still on the subject of the air injection, be sure to close the air control valves when you exit the tub. This matters. At the same time, open up all of the water jets. Opening the jets has nothing to do with energy use, but it helps keep the plumbing clean of excessive bacteria and biofilms, that form in stagnant water.

Your cover should be examined carefully to make sure that it's not defective and has not taken on water. Even though your spa is new, it it's waterlogged it won't do a good job. It is possible that you got a bad one.

Another cover related issue is to make note of how much water your spa loses. This is a very good indication of how well the cover is sealing against the shell and how tight the cover's seams are. You should actually have to add water only rarely. If you are adding often, you're losing water. When water evaporates, it takes a LOT of heat away with it. No evaporation means no heat loss through evaporation, and that's a good thing.

With respect to filter cycles, I have found that two hour cycles spaced 12 hours apart work very well and (along with proper chems) keep the spa sparkling. However, if your spa has energy saver modes, you can get a small savings. I'm not clear as to whether your spa has a 24 hour pump or uses a jet pump. If it uses the jet pump, there may be an economy mode that will run the heater only during the filter cycles. If this is the case, select the timing as to when the filter cycles happen based on when you like to use the spa so that the cycle occurs just before you normally use it. In the best case, if there is another cycle 12 hours away, it would work out very well that filter cycle happened during a warm part of the day. For example I like to use my spa at around 10 pm. So, I set the filter cycles to come on at 8 pm (it ends at 10, just when I like to get in) and 8 am. Hopefully you can see the logic. It is inefficient to have the heater come on during the coldest part of the night, where it will be lost and do you no good.

Those are a few ideas. Good luck!

[JetCaptain]

Thanks again guys. Just read more of the manual and when this tub is in the Standard Mode, the default cycle on the Filter/Circulation Pump makes it turn on at midnight and run for 12 hours! If the recirc pump doesn't need to be on all that much, I am going to adjust those times.

I'll try a few of these ideas and report back on this thread next month after the next electric bill arrives. It has been a colder than normal December and January in northern Ohio with lows in the single digits without wind chill. The bill may be higher than I thought it would be; but the hot tub is still surely worth the comfort!!

[ScottWilliamson]

I wish my bill went up $30.. My bill went up about $90 a month with my spa.

I am in Southern California, set for 4 hour filtering per day and temp at 102F. 375 gallons.

The spa used 12KWh per day just for filtering. My baseline for the month is 10KWh. A 3KWh, 240volt, pump to filter is overkill I think.

[PFC5]

I wish my bill went up $30.. My bill went up about $90 a month with my spa.

I am in Southern California, set for 4 hour filtering per day and temp at 102F. 375 gallons.

The spa used 12KWh per day just for filtering. My baseline for the month is 10KWh. A 3KWh, 240volt, pump to filter is overkill I think.

Something must be wrong for you to use that much in your warmer climate. That is what my el-cheapo Home Depot spa cost in November BEFORE I added insulation which brought it down to $35./month in the winter with 10 degree or lower nights at a power rate of 0.119/kWh. WHat is your rate and spa brand/model?

[ScottWilliamson]

I wish my bill went up $30.. My bill went up about $90 a month with my spa.

I am in Southern California, set for 4 hour filtering per day and temp at 102F. 375 gallons.

The spa used 12KWh per day just for filtering. My baseline for the month is 10KWh. A 3KWh, 240volt, pump to filter is overkill I think.

Something must be wrong for you to use that much in your warmer climate. That is what my el-cheapo Home Depot spa cost in November BEFORE I added insulation which brought it down to $35./month in the winter with 10 degree or lower nights at a power rate of 0.119/kWh. WHat is your rate and spa brand/model?

CalSpa Escape ES748.

Heating is not the issue as it heats quickly and stays hot with the cover on. It is the filtering that sucks up the electricity. I shut the entire house down with just the breaker on for the spa. A one hour filter period takes just under 3KW hours.

Thus.. puts me in a higher tier and I can pay up to $.31/KWh.

[njmurvin]

I wish my bill went up $30.. My bill went up about $90 a month with my spa.

I am in Southern California, set for 4 hour filtering per day and temp at 102F. 375 gallons.

The spa used 12KWh per day just for filtering. My baseline for the month is 10KWh. A 3KWh, 240volt, pump to filter is overkill I think.

Something must be wrong for you to use that much in your warmer climate. That is what my el-cheapo Home Depot spa cost in November BEFORE I added insulation which brought it down to $35./month in the winter with 10 degree or lower nights at a power rate of 0.119/kWh. WHat is your rate and spa brand/model?

CalSpa Escape ES748.

Heating is not the issue as it heats quickly and stays hot with the cover on. It is the filtering that sucks up the electricity. I shut the entire house down with just the breaker on for the spa. A one hour filter period takes just under 3KW hours.

Thus.. puts me in a higher tier and I can pay up to $.31/KWh.

Hey Scott,

I live in SoCal also and I am also in the .31/kwh tier. I think my dealer sold me a bill of goods with the $30/month estimate. Maybe so for tier1 charges, but they should tell you how many kwh you are expected to burn and let you go to your electric bill to estimate the charges you will really be getting. I have set my tub to ECO, filter twice/day for 2 hours, and lowered the temp to 100deg. I still think it's costing me $100/mo to run it. I have emailed Marquis to get some technical info about power usage of the pumps and heater. No response in 3 days. I completely believe your claim as to what it's costing you to run your spa. 3kw in an hour seems high for just a pump running on low speed. However, until we have the ratings of these pumps, there's really no way to know for sure.

[hottubdan]

Just curious...if you are in So Cal. and paying 31 cents/KWH, why you don't go solar?

[Stuart A]

If you are like me and prefer to use your spa with the pumps running then the bills will be higher, generally motors tend not to be very efficient especially powerful ones. Some spas cost more than others to run and a big factor to this is the rating of the pumps. I have seen spas that are only rated at 13 amps these are not very powerful and should be cheaper to run.

As mentioned before try cutting down on your filter cycles and do not run the pumps all the time you are in, however some people like me do not like sitting in just still water.

[ScottWilliamson]

Just curious...if you are in So Cal. and paying 31 cents/KWH, why you don't go solar?

I have. Before I had the spa, my monthly bill in the winter was around $70. During the summer, about $200 (A/C).

Since I got the sap, the winter bill has hovered around $160 to $180.

The lowest quote for Solar for my house... $37,500 AFTER rebates, tax credits, etc. Plus $2,500 permit fee.

[PFC5]

Just curious...if you are in So Cal. and paying 31 cents/KWH, why you don't go solar?

I have. Before I had the spa, my monthly bill in the winter was around $70. During the summer, about $200 (A/C).

Since I got the sap, the winter bill has hovered around $160 to $180.

The lowest quote for Solar for my house... $37,500 AFTER rebates, tax credits, etc. Plus $2,500 permit fee.

Your rate is 2.58x what mine is so your usage is about the same. I have my filtering set at 2hrs twice in a 24 hour period. If you are not using it often, then maybe you can get by with only 1hr twice a day for filtering.

Solar is just not ready for average household use yet. I have a client who has it on 2 properties and that is with a propane powered refrigerator & propane heat, and he likely will not recover the cost even after the credits. One of the properties he ended up running a power line because the renter did not have/keep enough power with just solar. The other one is just weekly rentals so it is still off the grid.

IMO, they are years away from any chance to go off the grid with solar for a typical home, and have any chance to fully recover the cost and save money in the end, regardless of what solar salesmen say about it.

[hot_water]

I wish my bill went up $30.. My bill went up about $90 a month with my spa.

I am in Southern California, set for 4 hour filtering per day and temp at 102F. 375 gallons.

The spa used 12KWh per day just for filtering. My baseline for the month is 10KWh. A 3KWh, 240volt, pump to filter is overkill I think.

Hi Scott,

If you are filtering for 4 hours per day, I don't see how you can be burning 12 kW-hr per day. For most spas, one of the motors does filter duty, and on low speed. This is usually around 4.4 amps. At 240V, this is 1056 watts or roughly a kW. So if you're filtering 4 hours per day (a good number), then you can't be using more than about 4 or 4.5 kW hours per day. Sounds like your measurements were carefully done, but the numbers can't be that high unless your filter pumps are both running, or running on high, or the heater is on at the same time... something.

Something else must be going on.

Take care!

[ScottWilliamson]

This is from the invoice of the spa:

Jet pump 1 - 2 speed, 3 HP continuous duty, 5 HP breakdown torque

Jet pump 2 - 1 speed, 3 HP continuous duty, 5 HP breakdown torque

Jet pump 1 is used from the front jets and filtering. Jet pump 2 is used for the rear jets. The low speed on jet pump 1 does the filtering. When I look under the spa, there is a plug in for both jet pumps. They are rated 240V/12A. There is a plug in for a "circ pump" 120v/3A which is empty.

When I noticed the high bill, I tried to figure out what it was. I started to write down my hourly usage which is around .5KWh. From 5pm to 6pm, my usage was .5KWh. From 6pm to 7pm (during one of the one hour filtering periods) my usages was over 3.0KWh. From 7pm to 8pm, my usages was again around .5KWh.

The following day, I shutdown all the breakers to the house. No usage. I turned on only the spa breaker and ran a filter period for one hour. Usage as just a tad below 3KWh.

The following week, I wrote down three days of electrical usage (with spa).

Day 1 27 KWh

Day 2 31 KWh

Day 3 28 KWh

Avg 28.6 KWh

The next three day, I wrote down my electrical usage, but I drained the spa and left it off:

Day 1 17 KWh

Day 2 17 KWh

Day 3 16 KWh

Avg 16.6 KWh

So.. the spa add around 12 KWh per day to my usage.. or around 360 KWh per month

From my last bill.

224 KWh @ .27

136 KWh @ .24

$93.12 additional to run my spa.

I call the vendor and asked about the "circ pump" and if I can add a circulation pump for the filtering. They said they can not do that because it will mess up the back pressure or something like that.

All the testing was done with the heater turned down so I would not come on. Besides, the heater only comes on for about five to six minutes to heat it up.

My filter periods are 1 hour each, every six hours. 12am, 6am, 12pm, 6pm.