tb0ne Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 New house has a 15x32 rectangular inground that desperately needs a new liner. No stairs, one skimmer, two returns, and a main drain. I started the process of getting a few quotes, and the first quote I got came back at around $4200 dollars. This includes pumping remaining water out, liner replacement, and refilling with trucked in water (we're on a well). I don't know what this should cost me, but this seemed much higher than I was expecting. Just curious of others' thoughts on this. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillinKingstonSprings Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 I am no expert but that seems high to me unless the additional cost is for the refill. I would ask how much is the liner installation compared to trucking the water for the refill. Also I believe if the main drain and skimmers are separately ran back to the pump you should be able to pump most of the water out yourself through the bottom drain. Happy New Year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tb0ne Posted January 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 I am no expert but that seems high to me unless the additional cost is for the refill. I would ask how much is the liner installation compared to trucking the water for the refill. Also I believe if the main drain and skimmers are separately ran back to the pump you should be able to pump most of the water out through the bottom drain. Happy New Year! The water was quoted at $800, so the liner/labor was about 3400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoolSpaGuy30 Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 I am no expert but that seems high to me unless the additional cost is for the refill. I would ask how much is the liner installation compared to trucking the water for the refill. Also I believe if the main drain and skimmers are separately ran back to the pump you should be able to pump most of the water out through the bottom drain. Happy New Year! The water was quoted at $800, so the liner/labor was about 3400. expensive labor in my opinion...water $800, cost of liner $800-$1200 depending on thickness, brand, etc. then maybe $150 in white goods, new main drain cover, skimmer face-plates, new eyeballs, gaskets etc. leaving 2,000-2,200 for what I would figure is 6 hours labor...I would break it down like this, 1 hr to drop submersible pump and timer off to drain pool overnight, or as you stated have customer lower pool using main drain...2 guys @ 4 hours to remove and replace liner...1 hr return trip to pull vacs and to cut in skimmers and returns and fire up the pool off the main drain. Of course labor time can be increased depending on the type of bottom your pool has, if it is a sand bottom that might need to be re-troweled that will obviously increase cost, if the pool is vermiculite or standard portland mix he may also be figuring for repairs or patches as needed, ask him if that is included in the price, my bids always includes 1 bag of vermiculite + minor patching if needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 I would get 4 or 5 quotes to compare prices and ask each for a list of their 5 MOST RECENT customers and contact them to see if the work was satisfactory. If you don't ask for the most recent customers yo are likely to get the most satisfied customers and not necessarily a good representation of their current work. It might seem like a lot of work but, unfortunately, price is not an indicator of good (or shoddy) work in this industry and reputation only goes so far. If the work crew has changed the quality of work can change drastically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Clown Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 It might seem like a lot of work but, unfortunately, price is not an indicator of good (or shoddy) work in this industry and reputation only goes so far. If the work crew has changed the quality of work can change drastically. Yea, i was gunna say that liner better be PERFECT. No wrinkles folds or blems, for that price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xulud Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 There are liners and then there are liners. Make sure that if you are paying a top price you get a top quality liner. Check on the brand they are supplying and make sure they are one of the few high quality made in the US manufacturers, otherwise you will be replacing in not too many years. Also check that you are getting the thicker grade of vinyl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I give you a quick quote break down for your situation(Pool Pad Bottom) of what should be done, labour breakdown & cost. I ve been doing liner pools going on 13 yrs. Day 1 Drain Pool w Gas pump 3" discharge Remove liner/face plates & gaskets Pressure testing & inspection of all lines(returns & suction) Remove old tape from joints Clean all wall panels/ joints Silicone and tape all joints Fix & treat any rust spots Sweep & Prep pool for next day install Labour 3 guys 4hrs =12 total hours Day 2 Re sweep/Vac pool bottom again(to ensure no debris blew in) Place all new gaskets Liner Install maindrain cut in Filling (by water truck) Faceplate install & cut in Water Balance Labour 3 guys 2.5hrs(liner install) 7.5 total hours 1 guy 4hrs(pool fill duration/cut ins/equipment start-up/Balancing) As you are filling by a truck thats a variable since you have to look at how far you are away from where the truck fills up how big the truck is & how many trips. If its only one truck & it takes 20mins to drive to your location its basically an hour combined for each load. So probable 4 loads of water will take 4 hrs. It could be longer if the drive is longer or it could be less if there is less loads or 2 trucks delivering. Pool Liner - 15x30 30 mil full pattern Kafko liner $2,500 Pool Labour - 23.5hrs ($50 per hr avg) $1,175 Water $800 Total $4,475 My estimate would be more than your first quote but I would suspect the difference would be in either the pressure testing inclusion or the liner price. A quality inground liner sure isnt going to be $1,200. Anything below 27mil wall IMO is aboveground grade. Look for vinyl either supplied from Canadian Tower General or a supplier that gets vinyl that states its made in the USA(there's only a couple) Hope this breakdown helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoolSpaGuy30 Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I give you a quick quote break down for your situation(Pool Pad Bottom) of what should be done, labour breakdown & cost. I ve been doing liner pools going on 13 yrs. Day 1 Drain Pool w Gas pump 3" discharge Remove liner/face plates & gaskets Pressure testing & inspection of all lines(returns & suction) Remove old tape from joints Clean all wall panels/ joints Silicone and tape all joints Fix & treat any rust spots Sweep & Prep pool for next day install Labour 3 guys 4hrs =12 total hours Day 2 Re sweep/Vac pool bottom again(to ensure no debris blew in) Place all new gaskets Liner Install maindrain cut in Filling (by water truck) Faceplate install & cut in Water Balance Labour 3 guys 2.5hrs(liner install) 7.5 total hours 1 guy 4hrs(pool fill duration/cut ins/equipment start-up/Balancing) As you are filling by a truck thats a variable since you have to look at how far you are away from where the truck fills up how big the truck is & how many trips. If its only one truck & it takes 20mins to drive to your location its basically an hour combined for each load. So probable 4 loads of water will take 4 hrs. It could be longer if the drive is longer or it could be less if there is less loads or 2 trucks delivering. Pool Liner - 15x30 30 mil full pattern Kafko liner $2,500 Pool Labour - 23.5hrs ($50 per hr avg) $1,175 Water $800 Total $4,475 My estimate would be more than your first quote but I would suspect the difference would be in either the pressure testing inclusion or the liner price. A quality inground liner sure isnt going to be $1,200. Anything below 27mil wall IMO is aboveground grade. Look for vinyl either supplied from Canadian Tower General or a supplier that gets vinyl that states its made in the USA(there's only a couple) Hope this breakdown helps. water aside $3700 to do a 15x32 rectangle with no steps?, my lord that must be nice, I wish I had less competition around here to bid them that high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Poolspaguy, With that type of pricing Im the lowest 95% of the time. My competitors are usually $800 to $2000 more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoolSpaGuy30 Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Poolspaguy, With that type of pricing Im the lowest 95% of the time. My competitors are usually $800 to $2000 more. wow I am surprised, around here it is so cutthroat even with new vinyl pool construction, our bread and butter is service and remodeling everything from as simple as a new liner to a complete re-model ie coping, new skimmers/lines, new equipment etc. and we have attempted to dip into some new construction but honestly with the economy as it is most of the local builders are literally bidding out pools at almost cost just to keep their crews working throughout the summer, so even though we are setup with the experience and equipment to do new construction we decided to stick with the re-models because we will tackle those really fun re-models lol, you know trees growing from inside the pool, adding sidewall steps to an existing pool, adding full length steel steps, etc. etc. where there is money to be made because most of the local companies show up to a empty pool with a 6" tree growing inside of it and want nothing to do with it. I do know that our spas sales are up a little and last summer was better than the previous as far as pool service goes so hopefully we are on an upward trend. btw it looks as if we were taught how to properly do liners by the same guy, my checklist looks exactly the same as you have listed above, except if the weather permits I drop a 1.5" little giant the night before and have it drain that way, I'm getting to damn old to manhandle a 3" gas pump and all the heavy hose that goes along with it lol...I rolled up a couple of those 3" hoses last fall and I thought my arms were going to fall off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Just goes to show that pricing really is a regional thing and depends a lot on how much competition (and how many pools) are in your area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayJr Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Water is expensive and will continue to be. Is the floor concrete or sand and needs to be re troweled by hand, is there ground water at the time of install, considering laws with the main drains now you might want to consider another skimmer and maybe get rid of maindrain. It's all about the word of mouth of the company, for a few hundred here or there your gonna save yourself a headache going with the better company, there's alot of hackers out there, and alot of good guys, were abouts do you live? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoolGuyNJ Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 The drain cover should be replaced with a VGB compliant unit. 30 mil is an upgrade, especially if it's for both the wall and floor. Unless you have rough surfaces, a 20 mil will last just as long and cost a lot less. Nothing wrong with Kafco AFAIK. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinerMFGr Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 @tbOne - Make sure the installer is changing faceplates and gaskets on everything. It may cost a bit extra but it is well worth it. Definitely ask for referrals. I suspect most dealers will not want you bothering their past 5 customers, but take what they will give you. Waterbear was dead-on when he stated installation price was regional. I’ve heard of people charging $8k for a regular liner replacement in NC. The poor folks up by me would be lucky to get $3k for the same job. I’m not completely on-board with the “thicker is better” mode of logic, but I’m not going to go into my rant on that one (you can search the forum for my rant if you are interested). And keep in mind that a liner can be made in the USA but use foreign material in fabrication. You should specifically ask if the pattern you pick is produced domestically if it concerns you. @Pathfinder-Great breakdown. Your experience is an asset to this forum. ...Usually (I didn't want it to seem like I was kissing up) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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