SpaTechSince1979 Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 Roger, Spa Guy, Stuart, Kreg, SpaTech(The Real/unreal ones?),Hot Tub Dan and others... Thanks for your opinions...Let me ask you guys...What's the best car?, pick up truck?, hamburger? Hotel? Airline? Movie? Song? Website? I am amazed at how many posts some of you guys have the time to post. I come to this site for a little insight, info & comedy relief. I come here when it's raining and I can't service spas. It amazing that some of you have so many posts... In the last year I have have serviced over 1000 spas for over 20 different manufactures and 25 different dealers. I have talked to the owners of these stores and their sales staff. I asked them how many spas have been sold or customers that have read these posts...One sales person said he sold a replacement cover...THAT's IT...Most the salespeople said that the site is a lot of service guys or sales guys bashing each other... I asked about SpaSearch ratings and here is how they are done... 1. A Spa manufacturer has to sign up to be approved. There is a minimal cost to be certified, just like with UL, ETL,Consumers Digest etc. 2. Spa Search's goal is to give an incentive to all spa manufactures to build better products by giving them the results so they can build better spas in the future. 3. Spa Search employ a 3rd party that calls hundreds of spa owners from all the spas that the manufactures have in their database at random and ask the following... A. Overall satisfaction B. Would they recommend to a friend C. Appearance D. Quality E. Reliability F. Ease of Use G. Comfort H. Value I. Product Knowledge of SalesPerson/Dealer J. Professionalism/Dealer K. Installation and delivery provided by Salesperson/Dealer Out of 100+ Spa Manufactures...Here are the 2010 Winners Arctic-Cal-Caldera-Clearwater-D1-LA-HotSprings-Master Spas-Marquis Spas....That's it for now 9 out of 100+ The Master rep showed me that they had the highest Quality,Reliability,Overall satisfaction ratings over everyone. A Hot Springs Rep showed me that they had the most Knowledgeable salespeople... A D1 dealer showed me their details... A manufacture sees the high scores, low scores and average scores. Then they see their exact score and they know where they fall in. They showed me these documents. You all might want to ask your manufactures that you sell or service to see their rankings. Consumers Digest is not as detailed. They ask a lot of questions, contact dealers, consumers and service providers. I have been contacted by Consumers Digest 3 times and asked questions about the brands we service. Consumers digest reps were at the Las Vegas Aqua show a few years ago looking, interviewing dealers and manufactures...If a manufactures spa wins a category...they have to pay a license fee to use the Award logo in ads... So if any consumers read this...you can contact Consumers Digest or Spa Search and verify this info... Also if any spa shopping consumers actually read this...I WOULD GIVE 100 TIMES THE WEIGHT TO SPA SEARCH or CONSUMERS DIGEST results over any opinion on this forum...Get the fax ask to see their rankings... Got to go..it stopped raining... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart A Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 I am very happy with my spa, and now even happier that its manufacturer is on a list that appears credible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 Out of 100+ Spa Manufactures...Here are the 2010 Winners Arctic-Cal-Caldera-Clearwater-D1-LA-HotSprings-Master Spas-Marquis Spas....That's it for now 9 out of 100+ 2010 Winners? Are we supposed to believe that the other 90+ spa companies all tried to be winners but failed? You'll notice Jacuzzi/Sundance are not on that list. Did they both not make the grade like Master? Of course not, they're owned by the same company and must have chosen not to pay to be included; Master chose to pay to be on that list so they can point to it as proof that their reputation is changing. To each his own. Why is it that there are 9 brands on that list but the ONLY people I've ever seen tout that list as proof that their product is good are the Master apologists. I've never seen the Arctic, D1, Hot Spring, Marquis... people on these forums even once mention that "winners" list as their proof that their product is worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaTechSince1979 Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 Out of 100+ Spa Manufactures...Here are the 2010 Winners Arctic-Cal-Caldera-Clearwater-D1-LA-HotSprings-Master Spas-Marquis Spas....That's it for now 9 out of 100+ 2010 Winners? Are we supposed to believe that the other 90+ spa companies all tried to be winners but failed? You'll notice Jacuzzi/Sundance are not on that list. Did they both not make the grade like Master? Of course not, they're owned by the same company and must have chosen not to pay to be included; Master chose to pay to be on that list so they can point to it as proof that their reputation is changing. To each his own. Why is it that there are 9 brands on that list but the ONLY people I've ever seen tout that list as proof that their product is good are the Master apologists. I've never seen the Arctic, D1, Hot Spring, Marquis... people on these forums even once mention that "winners" list as their proof that their product is worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaTechSince1979 Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 Out of 100+ Spa Manufactures...Here are the 2010 Winners Arctic-Cal-Caldera-Clearwater-D1-LA-HotSprings-Master Spas-Marquis Spas....That's it for now 9 out of 100+ 2010 Winners? Are we supposed to believe that the other 90+ spa companies all tried to be winners but failed? You'll notice Jacuzzi/Sundance are not on that list. Did they both not make the grade like Master? Of course not, they're owned by the same company and must have chosen not to pay to be included; Master chose to pay to be on that list so they can point to it as proof that their reputation is changing. To each his own. Why is it that there are 9 brands on that list but the ONLY people I've ever seen tout that list as proof that their product is good are the Master apologists. I've never seen the Arctic, D1, Hot Spring, Marquis... people on these forums even once mention that "winners" list as their proof that their product is worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kreg Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 Out of 100+ Spa Manufactures...Here are the 2010 Winners Arctic-Cal-Caldera-Clearwater-D1-LA-HotSprings-Master Spas-Marquis Spas....That's it for now 9 out of 100+ 2010 Winners? Are we supposed to believe that the other 90+ spa companies all tried to be winners but failed? You'll notice Jacuzzi/Sundance are not on that list. Did they both not make the grade like Master? Of course not, they're owned by the same company and must have chosen not to pay to be included; Master chose to pay to be on that list so they can point to it as proof that their reputation is changing. To each his own. Why is it that there are 9 brands on that list but the ONLY people I've ever seen tout that list as proof that their product is good are the Master apologists. I've never seen the Arctic, D1, Hot Spring, Marquis... people on these forums even once mention that "winners" list as their proof that their product is worthy. So talking about an award won based on customer satisfaction, great service, dealer professionalism, etc is a bad thing? You have had a little too much Kool Aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hottublady Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 Out of 100+ Spa Manufactures...Here are the 2010 Winners Arctic-Cal-Caldera-Clearwater-D1-LA-HotSprings-Master Spas-Marquis Spas....That's it for now 9 out of 100+ 2010 Winners? Are we supposed to believe that the other 90+ spa companies all tried to be winners but failed? You'll notice Jacuzzi/Sundance are not on that list. Did they both not make the grade like Master? Of course not, they're owned by the same company and must have chosen not to pay to be included; Master chose to pay to be on that list so they can point to it as proof that their reputation is changing. To each his own. Why is it that there are 9 brands on that list but the ONLY people I've ever seen tout that list as proof that their product is good are the Master apologists. I've never seen the Arctic, D1, Hot Spring, Marquis... people on these forums even once mention that "winners" list as their proof that their product is worthy. So talking about an award won based on customer satisfaction, great service, dealer professionalism, etc is a bad thing? You have had a little too much Kool Aid. Kreg, Since you are a dealer of Master Spas I wanted to know if you sell alot of the model with the lounge for sun bathing?? That looks like fun, I really like that idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 But they build the most advanced, feature packed spas in the market now... You keep forgeting to say "in your opinion as a dealer of master" I don't have the same opinion as yours, to many high energy use complaints here. And I am not alone. And I am sure there are other dealers like you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kreg Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 But they build the most advanced, feature packed spas in the market now... You keep forgeting to say "in your opinion as a dealer of master" I don't have the same opinion as yours, to many high energy use complaints here. And I am not alone. And I am sure there are other dealers like you. In your opinion, why would a Master Spa have higher energy use than another brand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kreg Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 Out of 100+ Spa Manufactures...Here are the 2010 Winners Arctic-Cal-Caldera-Clearwater-D1-LA-HotSprings-Master Spas-Marquis Spas....That's it for now 9 out of 100+ 2010 Winners? Are we supposed to believe that the other 90+ spa companies all tried to be winners but failed? You'll notice Jacuzzi/Sundance are not on that list. Did they both not make the grade like Master? Of course not, they're owned by the same company and must have chosen not to pay to be included; Master chose to pay to be on that list so they can point to it as proof that their reputation is changing. To each his own. Why is it that there are 9 brands on that list but the ONLY people I've ever seen tout that list as proof that their product is good are the Master apologists. I've never seen the Arctic, D1, Hot Spring, Marquis... people on these forums even once mention that "winners" list as their proof that their product is worthy. So talking about an award won based on customer satisfaction, great service, dealer professionalism, etc is a bad thing? You have had a little too much Kool Aid. Kreg, Since you are a dealer of Master Spas I wanted to know if you sell alot of the model with the lounge for sun bathing?? That looks like fun, I really like that idea We will take your Jetsetter in on trade!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaTechSince1979 Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 But they build the most advanced, feature packed spas in the market now... You keep forgeting to say "in your opinion as a dealer of master" I don't have the same opinion as yours, to many high energy use complaints here. And I am not alone. And I am sure there are other dealers like you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 But they build the most advanced, feature packed spas in the market now... You keep forgeting to say "in your opinion as a dealer of master" I don't have the same opinion as yours, to many high energy use complaints here. And I am not alone. And I am sure there are other dealers like you. In your opinion, why would a Master Spa have higher energy use than another brand? It wouldn't be my opinion, it would be the experience of the owners I have serviced here in Northern Minnesota. And the post's from owners on this and other forums. I have only had one in my garage for refurb as there aren't many up here in Northern Minnesota (as I said before) But if I had to speculate on why there energy use was higher based on what I have heard and seen it would be from 1. lack of insulation 2. air gaps between cabinet skirt panels and around the spa lip (the fit and finish was mediocre at best) 3. multiple high HP motors. And while this pushes a lot of water and power has never been brought up as low, it also raises energy use. Objectivly take a look for yourself at the overall fit and finish of a Master versus some of the other high quality brands. If you can take off your salesman glasses there is no way you can't see it unless your blind. But, they do cost less and rightly so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kreg Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 But they build the most advanced, feature packed spas in the market now... You keep forgeting to say "in your opinion as a dealer of master" I don't have the same opinion as yours, to many high energy use complaints here. And I am not alone. And I am sure there are other dealers like you. In your opinion, why would a Master Spa have higher energy use than another brand? It wouldn't be my opinion, it would be the experience of the owners I have serviced here in Northern Minnesota. And the post's from owners on this and other forums. I have only had one in my garage for refurb as there aren't many up here in Northern Minnesota (as I said before) But if I had to speculate on why there energy use was higher based on what I have heard and seen it would be from 1. lack of insulation 2. air gaps between cabinet skirt panels and around the spa lip (the fit and finish was mediocre at best) 3. multiple high HP motors. And while this pushes a lot of water and power has never been brought up as low, it also raises energy use. Objectivly take a look for yourself at the overall fit and finish of a Master versus some of the other high quality brands. If you can take off your salesman glasses there is no way you can't see it unless your blind. But, they do cost less and rightly so. Not sure what you have serviced but... 1) They make spas either full foam or thermal pane insulation. Customer's choice. Most go with thermal pane because of the easy access to the plumbing IF there is ever a problem. 2) There are no air gaps between the skirt, and the lip of the spa is sprayed with foam 3) They offer spas ranging from one pump to five pumps. People can choose how many pumps they want. The fit and finish is great! Maybe you prefer a continuous cabinet that is stapled to the wood frame underneath that cannot easily be removed without a crowbar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted July 14, 2010 Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 Not sure what you have serviced but... 1) They make spas either full foam or thermal pane insulation. Customer's choice. Most go with thermal pane because of the easy access to the plumbing IF there is ever a problem. 2) There are no air gaps between the skirt, and the lip of the spa is sprayed with foam 3) They offer spas ranging from one pump to five pumps. People can choose how many pumps they want. The fit and finish is great! Maybe you prefer a continuous cabinet that is stapled to the wood frame underneath that cannot easily be removed without a crowbar? I have service about 15-20 different brands. The one I had was described as FF but the cabinet was not full of foam. It was sprayed on to a varying depth. This one had huge gaps under the spa lip. This one had 2 very noisy 5HP (3.5 actualy) pumps. My preferance does not matter. I actualy currently have a Calspa but it has been modified to double the effieciency of stock. Foam has been added and removed to better utilize waste heat. Reflectix has also been 100% air tight sealed around the perimeter. A customer gave it to me when they replaced theirs. I have owner 11 different brands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart A Posted July 14, 2010 Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 Come on everyone. Whilst some of you might not like Master spas the reps on here are not doing a lot different than other spa reps on here, they are just backing their products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted July 14, 2010 Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 Come on everyone. Whilst some of you might not like Master spas the reps on here are not doing a lot different than other spa reps on here, they are just backing their products. Even though I'm not a fan of their product I understand them defending the spa itself BUT when they stand up for the lies that traveling Master spa show perpetrates, then this morning post some unbelievably bogus spa broker website (which was a Master wolf in sheep's clothing) and at the same time try to act like all past complaints against them are fabricated that's not going to go through without being challenged. You haven't been slimed by them so you don't know first hand but don't be fooled by the rhetoric. http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl?rev=5625 http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl?md=read;id=9485 http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl?md=read;id=9493 http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl?md=read;id=9513 http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/bbs/config.pl?md=read;id=96106 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE SPA GUY Posted July 14, 2010 Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 thats right we all have our opinions, some have validity, some do not, but your right we all have opinions, some of these are whoppers....really!!!!! but the idea of whats the best car. etc. etc. in my opinion that is irrelevant if there was a best there would be no competition....... i know a lot of us that are regulars speak from experience. the arguments will always be there, no matter what, as for different brands sold, i sell 1 brand with full foam, 1 with roxul, 1 with thermal chamber, and one with fiberglass, so i have knowledge of how all 4 operate...so to talk about them in second conversation( heard from another dealer they have this or that) you need to know firsrthand before you can make a fair judgement here......this is my opinion..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tub_repair_guy Posted July 14, 2010 Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 WOW... talk about drama. This is better than evening cable tv! Keep it up guys, I am having a great laff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kreg Posted July 15, 2010 Report Share Posted July 15, 2010 The only person being fooled by rhetoric is you when you believe the BS in those links you post. In an open forum, ANYONE can post that stuff, even competitors. I will choose to believe SpaSearch and the BBB versus some bogus story on a forum. They have way more credibility than a random post. Do you believe everything you read online? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East TX Spa Posted July 15, 2010 Report Share Posted July 15, 2010 The only person being fooled by rhetoric is you when you believe the BS in those links you post. In an open forum, ANYONE can post that stuff, even competitors. I will choose to believe SpaSearch and the BBB versus some bogus story on a forum. They have way more credibility than a random post. Do you believe everything you read online? Lord knows I sure don't......Hot Tub Broker Ratings Term (the Skeptical) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted July 15, 2010 Report Share Posted July 15, 2010 The only person being fooled by rhetoric is you when you believe the BS in those links you post. In an open forum, ANYONE can post that stuff, even competitors. I will choose to believe SpaSearch and the BBB versus some bogus story on a forum. They have way more credibility than a random post. Do you believe everything you read online? Lord knows I sure don't......Hot Tub Broker Ratings Term (the Skeptical) Bernie Madoff would be embarrassed to work for Master's Marketing group. That website is designed to deceive people and is as dishonest as the traveling Master spa show but Kreg won't comment on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Golden Posted July 15, 2010 Report Share Posted July 15, 2010 Well before this i have heard about master spas but it is not popular compared to other branded spas. The sales man simply convinces you simply to keep the cash flowing in and make profit.Therefore now while replacing a new spa with your old one you have to be very smart while choosing a new one.Personally i would advice you to go for hotspring spas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East TX Spa Posted July 15, 2010 Report Share Posted July 15, 2010 Bernie Madoff would be embarrassed to work for Master's Marketing group. That website is designed to deceive people and is as dishonest as the traveling Master spa show but Kreg won't comment on it. Bah, he's just a pawn....I'm wanting to hear what GiantGreenSpider79 has to say about these shenanigans! Term Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kreg Posted July 15, 2010 Report Share Posted July 15, 2010 I must have missed something. What are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted July 15, 2010 Report Share Posted July 15, 2010 I must have missed something. What are you talking about? Yesterday SpaTechSince1958 responded to a poster to go to the site below when they were asking for spa advice. Term, myself and a few others obviously looked at it also and responded on how much of a SCAM that "Master in sheep's clothing" site is from the way it ranks Master so highly in every category to the outright DISHONESTY in its listings of spa prices (all Master/DE/Legacy prices are listed super high like a DE Windsor for $17k LOL so if you have a quote from a Master dealer it'll seem like the deal of teh century while all reputable spas were listed with super low prices like a D1 Sarena Bay for $7k so if you have any quotes from a D1 dealer in that case it would make the quote seem super high). Hot Tub Broker Ratings Scam Site I can't believe he actually posted that here as if its some help to customers when its designed to deceive; its just more fodder to show how dishonest Master can be! That site is as shameful as the Master Traveling Spa Circus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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