Costco Tub Diary

[Matt87109]

For those of you that requested I continue the diary I'm sorry but I can no longer continue. I appreciated the information I shared with others while buying my tub, but due to constant interference I can no longer justify committing time to the endeavor.

[Nalod]

April 20th, 2009

Today I ordered the following tub from costco. I am generating this post to document my experiences in real time. I'm hoping for smooth sailing, but I promise to accurately document the process so both views in the whole costco tub argument can have a simple post to read. I'm wasting my time doing this because I want to give back to this community and provide some real data as many here have helped me. Please DO NOT post denigrating text that offers no technical value (that includes you Roger ) as we all know the general consensus. Thanks, Matt

To give you perspective:

-I have a technical background

-have wet tested a number of leading spas

-returned one tub to costco about five years ago after a month due to a leak that damaged the interior of the tub badly

-want just an adequate tub as a starter. If this tub lasts five years and I can prove to myself that I'm dedicated to the process than maybe I'll consider a more expensive tub.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?...〈=en-US

http://calspas.net/images/swf/oc-hot-tubs-m534-video.html

because this link will eventually go inactive I'll copy and paste the specifications below.

-I noted that some of the specifications on the costco site and the "watch demo" link that goes to calspas (link above) site don't agree. One difference being that costco site indicates 1 year labor while the OC pdf indicates no labor coverage. Another is 1 pump on costco's site and two pumps on cal's site. Also the control has a different specification. This is bothersome, but for a low cost tub I don't really care as long as it operates.

Specs from costco's site:

Majestic Series – MOC-534L:

Standard Features:

· Seating: 3 Person

· Dimensions: 64” x 84” x 32”

· Total # of Jets: 34 Stainless Steel Spoke Jets

· 16 Micro Flow Directional Jets (ED)

· 13 Euro Less Eyeball Jets (ELE)

· 4 Euro Directional Jets (ED)

· 1 Ozone Jet (OZ)

· Full Foam Insulation

· Water Treatment: Ozonator Installed

· High Performance Pump: 1 x 6.0BHP 240V

· Pump Voltage: 240V (Electrical connections must be made by qualified and licensed personnel. Improper installation present Hazards, which can result in personal injury or property damage. Please contact a licensed residential electrician for these services)

· 2” Plumbing

· Gate Valves

· Lighting: 12V Spa Light

· Filter Screw In with Weir Gate: 50 sq. ft.

· 3 Comfort Pillows

· Weight: Dry: 600lbs Filled: 3,307 lbs

· Water Capacity: 325 USG

· Equipment: "V300 Control with Digital Top Side"

· Flow-Through Heater

· Low Profile Drain (LPFD)

· Wall Drain

· Cabinet Accessible Drain Valve

· Pressure Treated Cabinet Frame

· Standard Bottom Tray

· Shell Color: Snow White

· Synthetic Cabinet Panels: Mist

· Cover: Gray

Warranty:

· 5 Years - Structural

· 2 Years - Finish

· 2 Years - Parts

· 1 Year - Labor

May 5th 2009

The tub was delivered Last Thursday, or a couple weeks after placing my order. I had a friend bring over a pallet jack and with the help of the delivery guy (don't expect them to help I was just lucky) and his pallet jack we rolled the tub into my back yard on two pallet jacks with no problems. I gave the delivery guy a tip for his effort. If I was doing this again I'd get two friends and two pallet jacks with two sheets of plywood or OSB to get across soft spots in the yard.

The tub was strapped and wrapped with cardboard/thin foam on a pallet, so it arrived with no damage and in good shape. The cover was in a separate box.

Over the weekend I built a thin "pallet" using synthetic deck boards by laying down the 8ftx5.25x1 long boards on 1ft pitch and then laying additional boards across the first set with about 1/2 spacing in between. This created a very nice lifted surface for water run off. Previously I had a tub directly on concrete and didn't like it. I had one other friend help me lower the 600# tub onto the pallet. After it was down the abs bottom allowed it to slide around easily for repositioning.

My first impression of the tub was that I was very happy with the aesthetics and lay out. Being a low cost tub, it does not have diverter valves and air valves, so as far as controls is pretty simple. I removed one of the jets by turning it counter clock wise with easy. The jets are designed so you can almost turn them off allowing you to redirect pressure to a particular seat if need be. Opening them all the way causes bubbles to form similar to an air valve. When they are half way off the pressure is about the same, but there are no bubbles.

I pulled the sides off the tub and discovered a brown paper that was used as a backing (foam sprayed inbetween shell and paper) when the foam insulation was sprayed in. It appears to be approximately three or four inches thick or more in most places, but there are a few places were it is thinner around equipment. I was quite pleased with the amount of insulation I observed. The cover is 4" thick near the center and tapers off to 2.5 inches at the ends.

I noted that the frame was typical 2x construction that was fabricated from treated wood.

After the tub was in place I set a treated post in the ground, installed the disconnect box, and hooked up the 50amp GFCI breaker with the help of an electrician friend. We had already run 6ga wire from the house panel so it took about two hours. We ran the last 15ft with 8ga copper wire between the disconnect and tub.

Before we turned on the juice, we filled the tub with water through the filter port. When we turned on the power the tub ran the pump (apparently for five min. before it kicks on the heater). It took a bit of messing around for about twenty seconds and bleeding the air out of the pump head before the water started to flow....not a big deal.

Opening the equipment side of the spa reveled as expected, entry level spa equipment including:

1 ge motor w/ pump

1 balboa spa pack with flow through 5.5kw heater (simple 4button control up top)

1 balboa CD chip ozonator

2 gate valves

2" plumbing

The 4-button control up top allows switching between standard, economy, and sleep mode.

The specifications online have been updated to reflect what I suspected, that the tub is about 200 gallons, not 300. This was fine by me. The heater took about 2-3 hours getting up to 100 degrees.

After installing the cover lifter and cover lock latches it was done. I then started messing with chemicals.

Basically it arrived quickly, was not damaged, included all the parts, and was exactly what I envisioned. The set up was what I expected and went without issue. I was pleased to see industry branded components and plenty of insulation.

I've used the tub the last two nights for a total of one hour. The seats are comfortable, the jets are surprisingly adequate, and the layout of each seat seems to work a different part of my back. I enjoy being in this tub! The Hot Spring tub is certainly the most intense of all the tubs I tested (beachcomber, marquis, hotsprings), but this tub compares nicely to the marquis and beachcomber from a wet testing perspective. In fact I found myself wanting to escape the high pressure in the Hot Spring. I certainly love the Hot Spring Moto message.

I noted that the heater was capable of raising the temperature of the water while the tub was on high with ambient conditions of approximately 65F.

The only thing that I could complain about is that it's louder on high speed due to pump noise than I would like. It's not waking the neighbors up, but it makes some noise. When in the tub you don't notice it over the water noise if that gives you a qualitative example.

72 hours with water in it and no signs of leaks. I'll pull all the sides off in two weeks and check again.

Now that the tub has arrived and their quality control appears to have got the tub to me in working condition, the real question is will the insulation prove to be as effective as it appears it will be, and how long will it last. Since it has balboa parts I know I can likely get parts to fix the tub if I need.

As of right now I'm extremely happy that I did not spend twice as much on a better tub, as this one looks like it will satisfy my requirements nicely.

I'll report again if I have a problem or in a few months.

June 3rd, 2009

I have now had the tub running for one month. I'm using Nitro/Chem Geek's Chlorine method and am very happy.

I have used the tub about 27 out of the last 30 days for approximately thirty minutes.

This tub continues to be exactly what I wanted/needed with no defects.

August 29th, 2009

It how now been four months of use. I am still very happy. In fact I'm thrilled at how simple this tub is because it does exactly what I want and it does it well. Electricity usage is impossible to quantify because I have changed so many things (add square footage, add A/C changes, add hot tub, add new family member, add permanent guest). All things considered my electric bills does not indicate I have a huge hog on the line, but I can't really tell you for sure...... plus it's summer. Upon inspection I noted that my tub has plenty of insulation. The cover is also thick. I specifically bought a tub that indicated full foam insulation and would not buy a costco tub that indicated otherwise.

I'm going to venture to say that even if I have to have this thing fixed several times, I still won't be disappointed.

Thumbs up!

Such an amazing story it should be read twice!!!!!!!!!!

A man, A hot tub and his quest to tell a story!

" Upon inspection I noted that my tub has plenty of insulation. The cover is also thick. I specifically bought a tub that indicated full foam insulation and would not buy a costco tub that indicated otherwise."

This is a man of unusual discrimination. A man who wants nothing but the best, and wants it at discount.

A man who wants no feed back, no reply, no indication of the world around him.

A body of water he sits alone. A body of water that is in reality his own island oasis. He has baptised himself and fully insolated his ideal that his tub, and his tub alone for 4 months has battled the ravages of summer without hardly a wisper on his heating bill! How dare we question otherwise!!!! Fools!!!

He requests no one dare to respond to his womb of spa utopia, or question his discriminating tastes for he would not even consider a tub not fully insolated.

He mocks other spas. He mocks those with motors of fail, heaters of dispair and control units not obiediant to its master!

He mocks your financial reckless ness, and he mocks your warranty!

For he assures that no man shall tresspass on his pulsating baptismal font so delivered from the Vatican of wholesale and at such a low price no man shall question!!!!!!!!

[Trigger]

[thinkxingu]

Nalod,

Your sarcasm would have been funnier if you didn't try so hard and misspell every other word. I think you proved Matt's point, and the reason he requested no feedback: every Costco related thread ever created turns into a slam-fest. In fact, the last one was closed because it went so off-topic.

It was nice, for a while at least, to hear someone's real experiences without "you'll be sorry when it breaks down and kills all your children while burning down your house" and other ridiculous sentiments.

Question, though: Costco tub is $4500, comparable "real" tub seems to be $6500 or so. Will the Costco need $2K of fixin' in its lifetime?

S

[Dr. Spa]

I think the question is more;

Will the costso spa require an additional $2k in repairs and energy costs over the lifespanof a "real" spa.

[Nalod]

I must take even more time to rant and correct my reckless spelling ways.

Or is it more funny to spell it in an improper manner?

Im new here but his last attempt in Costco justification was his own undoing.

While Im sure there are some here that sell many brands and are threatened by Costcos lower pricing structure the core engagement is "dealer support" and without it does it justify the savings? I doubt in 4 months nobody will have "the last laugh".

I can appreciate buying a tub at costco and taking a risk it works out. For the little he paid it really just might. He has a lot of repair cost room for it to equate. And if he don't mind the hassle of it, then its a great deal!

Matt's post was freaking funny. The dude is regal!

[DK117]

I think the question is more;

Will the costso spa require an additional $2k in repairs and energy costs over the lifespanof a "real" spa.

Thank you Dr. Spa. Now even the moderators spread FUD about Costco Spa's. If you guys want a dealers only forum, just say so in a sticky thread at the top. I for one came to read about people's experiences with hot tubs. I find a ton of value in Roger and spatech (the unreal one) posts, they are informative and generally try to help the individual tub owner. Then there are a ton of individuals just sharing their experiences, this is what makes the forum great. No need to bash Costco vs Arctic.

The second worst experience I've had on this forum in the one month since joining was using the forum sponsored price quote request. I filled it out with very specific questions and requests for my future hot tub. All I got in response, is spam from 4 local dealers that continues to this day, not one single price quote was received ... dealer mentality. It pushed me to order a Costco tub last week. (note now that sticky is gone.)

So allow me to rephrase your inquiry ... Will two Costco spas lifetime, with technology upgrades on the second, equal the lifetime of a "real" spa?

DK117

Matt87109, I'm sorry another thread of yours is getting hijacked. I am/was very much looking forward to monthly or quarterly updates on your experience.

[Stuart A]

While Im sure there are some here that sell many brands and are threatened by Costcos lower pricing structure the core engagement is "dealer support" and without it does it justify the savings?

Clearly quite a few people are not getting dealer support, judging by the posts on this forum. Even though they have paid the extra for this by buying a spa through a dealer.

[Dr. Spa]

I've had on this forum in the one month since joining

And there sir is your problem. 1 month, member # 23603, 25 postings. Come back in ten years and you may have some valid knowledge after reading thousands upon thousands of postings, and hundred and hundred of complaints. Spend 25+ years in the industry, and maybe you'll actually see a few hundred, or thousand issues.

[DK117]

I've had on this forum in the one month since joining

And there sir is your problem. 1 month, member # 23603, 25 postings. Come back in ten years and you may have some valid knowledge after reading thousands upon thousands of postings, and hundred and hundred of complaints. Spend 25+ years in the industry, and maybe you'll actually see a few hundred, or thousand issues.

Dr. Spa, I completely understand your perspective. I'm not sure you get mine. By my count this forum has nearly 350 new users since my membership a month ago. In fact I'd say there are more lurkers than old timers such as yourself. We're newbies. And the old guard doesn't understand our needs. I assume you represent Roberts Hot Tubs in Richmond CA? http://www.rhtubs.com/ While I haven't said so in the past, I'm not in your geography, so you're fine. But what if I was? You've alienated a potential customer. I came here to learn, and I get insulted and my posts get deleted because I posed real questions about ... gasp, big box tubs, Strong Spa's specifically which NONE of us have much experience with.

I'm also confused why you wouldn't welcome the new users as potential service clients. Who else am I going to go with for all the issues that I'm bound to encounter. Or at the very least for chemicals and maintenance?

You've been here for 4 years 3 days, why must I come back in ten?

So if I leave this forum (seriously considering after today where moderators have strong opinions and delete dissenting posts vs moderating discussion) you'll count yourself the victor, when in fact you have lost. Both in your livelihood and your ability to grow beyond your personal experiences and see a worldview that is not your own.

DK117

[Roger]

, I'm not in your geography, so you're fine.

Nalod,

Your sarcasm would have been funnier if you didn't try so hard and misspell every other word. I think you proved Matt's point, and the reason he requested no feedback: every Costco related thread ever created turns into a slam-fest. In fact, the last one was closed because it went so off-topic.

It was nice, for a while at least, to hear someone's real experiences without "you'll be sorry when it breaks down and kills all your children while burning down your house" and other ridiculous sentiments.

Question, though: Costco tub is $4500, comparable "real" tub seems to be $6500 or so. Will the Costco need $2K of fixin' in its lifetime?

You know...I read three times and never saw any Costco bashing or assumptions about breaking down or anything like that untill Nalod made a statement...hmmmmmm then the campaign started (Post #4) by the dealer haters, Kinda makes ya wonder where the so called Costco bashing starts????

And to answer your question regarding the 2 g's more. In power consumption, repairs and headache because of no support, installation or go to guy, I gota say yes.

And DK FYI Doc sells nationwide and provides a valued service to me (not in his geographical area) and a whole lot of others further away than you. And his product is miles above anything from Costco in quality and price.

[Matt87109]

Hi Doc,

I'm putting all my updates in the first post via edit, so the thread will remain viable no matter how much dissent goes on. The tumult will always be below the diary.

Thank you.

[reeffreak]

Roger, I think Nalod's post wasn't bashing per se- more like dripping with sarcasm of the bashing that is inevitably to come... (which didn't take long).

Matt: I appreciate the review (even though I don't own a costco tub). But this ain't the place, no matter how objective you are- set up something on blogspot and put your review there. Or write up in epinions (you'll even get $$ there for the hits your review generates). And you don't have to worry about Costco being a 4 letter word.

Maybe Matt or DK could invite all the folks with member # <= 10 over to soak in their Costco tubs. Share a 12 pack obama style. And then they could take turns working on it as the tub breaks down. :D . It ain't that important.

But I have to ask- now that we have a mod in the battle, who's left to close the thread?

[Matt87109]

THIS post WAS deleted as it WAS a DIRECT attack on a member. This is in DIRECT violation of the boards guidelines.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Dr. Spa

[Dr. Spa]

My "representation" of Roberts Hot Tubs is half owner.

And as Roger says, well actually, we sell world wide (currently have 3 containers of hot tubs set to ship out).

"alienated a potential customer"? I don't really think so.......but I wont go into why :-)

You say you came here to learn? Yet those that give you advice based, on YEARS of experience, you slam as nay sayers. And not all of these people sell portable spas (including myself). And MANY of them are regulars on a lot of the other boards, and have been for YEARS. We've seen the complaints, we know industry insiders, we know the difference between a low end controller and a high end controller...made by the SAME company. WE know what goes into manufacturing a spa. We know what it costs to keep a business open.

I've been here for 4 years 3 days, before that on the last board that this site hosted. 3 other boards that I also moderate. My own message board that's been running since 1998. As well as numerous other spa related message boards. If I recall correctly, my first spa message board addiction began in 1996.

Let me tell you about cheap..and this I ABSOLUTELY know from personal experience;

As you may have figured out, Roberts Hot Tubs also manufactures spa covers. I'm told, we're actually one of the TOP manufacturers in the country (I still shake my head in disbelief when I hear this)... There once was a spa manufacturer, now out of business (I was going to mention names, but it's unimportant), that made a low end, "entry level" spa. For 2 years, we made their spa covers. Now our standard cover is probably one of the best made. Highest quality materials, and most attention to detail. BUT, we also make custom covers for companies that order high numbers. 12,000 covers a year is "high numbers". If they wanted to spec it, we'd pretty much make it for them. I'm only going to go over 1 paticular item in their cover. The polyethiline wrap sealing the foam...Our "standard" cover uses a 6 mil. They speced a 2 mil. They WANTED to use a 1 mil to save THIRTY FIVE CENTS on the cost of the cover. Ok, maybe some more :-) The box. It continually got thinner and thinner. Eventually to the point of it being SO thin, covers were getting damaged in shipping. But HEY, it's saved them FIFTY CENTS on every cover (they wanted to figure out a way to eliminate the box all together). The metal C-channel, they were SURE this could be eliminated all together (that would of saved them $1 per cover). Every aspect of the cover, they tried to get as LOW QUALITY (less expensive) as possible.

Now, if you took one of "their" covers, and placed it next to one of our "standard" covers, I doubt you, or most any other consumer could tell the difference...at least not when new. "Their" covers were literally lasting just past the warranty, ONE YEAR. At one year, our standard covers still looks pretty much new...5 years of life is not at all unusual, and I expect them to last 7+ years.

As far as lurkers...every thread shows a "view count". This one is at 297 currently (remember though, every time a response is posted, and YOU view the response, the post count for the thread increases by one...so it's NOT 297 different people that have viewed the thread)

Dr. Spa, I completely understand your perspective. I'm not sure you get mine. By my count this forum has nearly 350 new users since my membership a month ago. In fact I'd say there are more lurkers than old timers such as yourself. We're newbies. And the old guard doesn't understand our needs. I assume you represent Roberts Hot Tubs in Richmond CA? http://www.rhtubs.com/ While I haven't said so in the past, I'm not in your geography, so you're fine. But what if I was? You've alienated a potential customer. I came here to learn, and I get insulted and my posts get deleted because I posed real questions about ... gasp, big box tubs, Strong Spa's specifically which NONE of us have much experience with.

I'm also confused why you wouldn't welcome the new users as potential service clients. Who else am I going to go with for all the issues that I'm bound to encounter. Or at the very least for chemicals and maintenance?

You've been here for 4 years 3 days, why must I come back in ten?

So if I leave this forum (seriously considering after today where moderators have strong opinions and delete dissenting posts vs moderating discussion) you'll count yourself the victor, when in fact you have lost. Both in your livelihood and your ability to grow beyond your personal experiences and see a worldview that is not your own.

DK117

[Dr. Spa]

That's actually a good idea.

Hi Doc,

I'm putting all my updates in the first post via edit, so the thread will remain viable no matter how much dissent goes on. The tumult will always be below the diary.

Thank you.

[Trigger]

.... It was nice, for a while at least, to hear someone's real experiences without "you'll be sorry when it breaks down and kills all your children while burning down your house" and other ridiculous sentiments.

The quality of the parts and build have been discussed to the point of ad nasuiem. The value of dealer support has been debated, but where though have people made claims that property and persoanl saftey were at risk? What ridiculous sentiments are you talking about?

[reeffreak]

.... It was nice, for a while at least, to hear someone's real experiences without "you'll be sorry when it breaks down and kills all your children while burning down your house" and other ridiculous sentiments.

The quality of the parts and build have been discussed to the point of ad nasuiem. The value of dealer support has been debated, but where though have people made claims that property and persoanl saftey were at risk? What ridiculous sentiments are you talking about?

Unlisted and counterfeit Chinese electrical components in other threads. It's been covered. I think there was a touch of hyperbole in Thinkxingu's post too. Which is fine- it adds to the entertainment value, and that's about all these threads are good for. Running to Costco to get some more popcorn...

[Roger]

Running to Costco to get some more popcorn...

Now there's something that Costco is very good at!!! And pickles.

[Dr. Spa]

Walmart has better deals on pickles.

[Nalod]

Roger, I think Nalod's post wasn't bashing per se- more like dripping with sarcasm of the bashing that is inevitably to come... (which didn't take long).

But I have to ask- now that we have a mod in the battle, who's left to close the thread?

Thank you for getting me!

Maybe matt can do a Spa Cam thing with a power meter so we can moniter the life of it. Kind of like "The Truman SHow"! We can watch for leaks and issues.

As a newbie Im really into the story of "SPA WARS"!

Is companies like HS and Sundance the "Empire"?

Is Matt CP30?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

As a newbie Im really into the story of "SPA WARS"!

Is companies like HS and Sundance the "Empire"?

Is Matt CP30?

Nah, HS and Sundance are on the Jedi council.

Keys, Infinity, Tatum and the rest of the Costco suppliers are the dispensable Storm Troopers from Episodes IV-VI or the Battle Droids for those who prefer Episodes I-III.

[Stuart A]

As a newbie Im really into the story of "SPA WARS"!

Is companies like HS and Sundance the "Empire"?

Is Matt CP30?

The last time I heard Spa Wars was at the ideal home exhibition, over two and a half years ago, that is when we got interested in buying a spa. At that show were Master Spas, Hotspring, Hydropool and another one called Coast or with Coast in their name.

A salesman from Hotspring told me they refer to their yearly visit there as spa wars, these could be the big four

[spatech (the unreal one)]

The last time I heard Spa Wars was at the ideal home exhibition, over two and a half years ago, that is when we got interested in buying a spa. At that show were Master Spas, Hotspring, Hydropool and another one called Coast or with Coast in their name.

A salesman from Hotspring told me they refer to their yearly visit there as spa wars, these could be the big four

Master= General Grievous

[Roger]

Walmart has better deals on pickles.

I'm on my way over to the pickles forum to disspute that!!!!