My Current Spa Search - Amazing Discovery!

[Wannago]

I am curently shopping for a new tub, and have narrowed it down to the Jacuzzi 480 or the the D1 Bay series, possibly the Serena Bay. Recently I have been favoring the Jacuzzi's.

However, having read many good things about Marquis spas, I was interested in checking these out before I purchase. I found it odd that they don't have a dealer in my city, but do show dealers in a couple smaller towns, both within 2 hour drives of here.

On a bit of a whim, I called one of them to find out what kind of prices they have on the Marquis tubs. I learned that they actually don't sell them anymore, but primarily sell D1 tubs.

We spoke a bit about the D1s and how happy this rural dealer was in dealing with the D1 company. Nothing but great things to say about the service they provide to this dealer. I told the rep how I had been looking at D1's, and how I had a refundable deposit on a D1 tub here with the dealer in the city, intitially a Lotus Bay - but that may change as we now want a lounger. I told the rep how the city dealer's regular Lotus Bay retail price as listed at $21,999.00 Cdn, but had been reduced to $18,499.00, and how I was offered the "great" price - a builder's discount, of $16,999.00 Cdn. Again, this was a 2009 Lotus Bay, ulttralife white, with all the bells and whistles - just no stereo.

The rep told me how they had a few D1 models in stock, with blemishes, that they were selling at good prices. Here's what blew me away: I was also told that their price on a new 2009 Lotus Bay, no blemishes, white etc. - exactly like the one I have the deposit on, was $12,000.00 Cdn!!! What!? That's 5K cheaper than here in the city, for less than a 2 hour drive!!!

Naturally, I asked about warranty / service. I was told that they aren't allowed to target the market here in the city, and that they don't do so, and just sell to their local area. That said, apparently there are a few customers from the city who have gone out there and bought a tub. In instances like this, what this rural dealer does is shares their profit with the city dealer. By doing this, I was told that the city dealer is indirectly involved in the sale, and has a vested interest (obligation) to provide service. I am not looking for help with water issues etc, just warranty repairs for any problems I may encounter.

So what does everyone think? 5K savings is HUGE, plus the fact that the local dealer is getting "money for nothing" - basically. Had I not found this rural dealer, I think I would have been dealing on a J-480, as to me, it seemed to be a better bang for the buck. Now, considering the significant cost savings, I think I might go with a Serena Bay - the rural dealer's price on a 2009 Serena Bay, with a slight mar in the top of the shell (which has been repaired and is barely noticeable), in obsidian (black) which is also an upgrade, no stereo, is $15,500.00 Cdn with full warranty. How can I refuse these prices? If it was a few hundred, or even a thousand dollars difference, I would proably deal here in the city....but 5K difference!! Wow!

Oh, about $300 for delivery and setup too, this to bring it in from just under 2 hours away.

Interested to hear your comments. I'd hate to walk into the local dealer, ask for my deposit back, but then have to go in and get warranty help from him a couple weeks later. I'd feel a bit guilty. On the other hand, if this other dealer can sell me the tub for 5K less than his price, and still make a profit that they would actually be sharing with him anyway, I kinda get pissed off. There is obviosuly much bigger markup on these things than I thought!

[Dr. Spa]

I think you better call you "city" dealer to verify all of this, as I have a feeling you may be hung out to dry if there's any warranty issues. Heck ,you may even be hung if you EVER have ANY problems and need a factory trained tech to fix.

When will the consumers get it through their heads that a salesman has the potential to SAY ANYTHING to close a sale? Lie, cheat, steal, do illegal things with your dog, some may do, just to close that sale.

If this deal of yours is actually true, don't ya think your city dealer would MATCH the rural dealers price, to get the FULL profit of the sale, rather than split the profit with the guy down the road???????????

[d1dennis2009]

I think you better call you "city" dealer to verify all of this, as I have a feeling you may be hung out to dry if there's any warranty issues. Heck ,you may even be hung if you EVER have ANY problems and need a factory trained tech to fix.

When will the consumers get it through their heads that a salesman has the potential to SAY ANYTHING to close a sale? Lie, cheat, steal, do illegal things with your dog, some may do, just to close that sale.

If this deal of yours is actually true, don't ya think your city dealer would MATCH the rural dealers price, to get the FULL profit of the sale, rather than split the profit with the guy down the road???????????

My recommendation is to go with the dealer that is closest to your installation location, but either way you will be getting a great spa.

Best of luck.

[JerimiahR]

I think you better call you "city" dealer to verify all of this, as I have a feeling you may be hung out to dry if there's any warranty issues. Heck ,you may even be hung if you EVER have ANY problems and need a factory trained tech to fix.

When will the consumers get it through their heads that a salesman has the potential to SAY ANYTHING to close a sale? Lie, cheat, steal, do illegal things with your dog, some may do, just to close that sale.

If this deal of yours is actually true, don't ya think your city dealer would MATCH the rural dealers price, to get the FULL profit of the sale, rather than split the profit with the guy down the road???????????

Yeah I'd contact your city dealer and present this to them. See what they say. Who knows, they may well offer you a better deal if that spa is really sold for that much less.

I've heard of some folks being told some outlandish stuff by salesman with some of our local competition too. A lot of the time though, consumers can see through the garbage. I actually sold a woman a $9,000 spa in part because one of my competitors was trash talking so bad she immediately decided she wanted nothing to do with them. Kind of sad to hear frankly.

Then there's always the propagated myth that you can have a completely "chemical free hot tub."

That rural dealer could very well be telling you the truth, who knows if they have some kind of agreement with your local city dealer. But I'd check with your city dealer first, just to make sure there's not a bad history with this other dealer.

[Wannago]

I think you better call you "city" dealer to verify all of this, as I have a feeling you may be hung out to dry if there's any warranty issues. Heck ,you may even be hung if you EVER have ANY problems and need a factory trained tech to fix.

When will the consumers get it through their heads that a salesman has the potential to SAY ANYTHING to close a sale? Lie, cheat, steal, do illegal things with your dog, some may do, just to close that sale.

If this deal of yours is actually true, don't ya think your city dealer would MATCH the rural dealers price, to get the FULL profit of the sale, rather than split the profit with the guy down the road???????????

Whoa...why don't you tell me how you REALLY feel?

Dr. Spa, a couple things to keep in mind. Firstly, this is not your typical big city hot tub business , nor was the person I spoke with your typical big city salesman. Frankly, I get sick of having to put the "shields on full" with all the big city guys, as they all seem to fit your description completely: "lie, cheat, steal, do illegal things with your dog, etc." and the inevitable pressure for a deposit to "lock in this once in a lifetime price" is both sickening and at the same time, amusingly predictable, but very annoying.

The person I dealt with was actually a "mature" lady, she and her husband own and operate this shop in a small rural town (NOT city), and they seem content to sell tubs to their local target demographic. They have been in business for many years and she really seemed like she couldn't care less about getting my business. It took quite a while before she talked price, and I did not have to make to any sort of commitment to get her price, nor did I get the "hey, especially for you, 'cuz you're such a special guy, I can offer you this amazing one time only price." The person here locally I have been dealing with is the sales / service manager, and she knew him by name and spoke highly of him. She also knew the lady who preceded him in that position, and likewise had good things to say about her.

The shops here in the city are all located in strip malls or complexes that clearly come with a big city lease. I am wagering to bet this rural dealer might actually own their building, and most definitely won't have anywhere near the operating costs of the big city guys. This person was the first and only dealer I have spoken with who went against the grain and actually seemed honest and legit and ZERO pressure.

In every dealership I have gone into, the salesmen I have dealt with fit into your above description perfectly, and every time I left the shop, I felt like I needed a shower. With this rural dealer, I went to them. They do not market here in the city and assuming what she said is true, she honors her contractual territorial boundaries. If so, I find it very commendable of them to do that in order to play fair and to ensure their very few remote customers are taken care of in the city. However at the same time, I also completely agree with your comment: "If this deal of yours is actually true, don't ya think your city dealer would MATCH the rural dealers price, to get the FULL profit of the sale, rather than split the profit with the guy down the road???????????" but you have to keep in mind, in a big city, this dealer knows that if I don't buy from him, there will always be someone else who will. Business acumen in a small town is much different than in a big city. All I know is that I was given a price of 12K Cdn for a brand new D1 Lotus Bay. She had no way of knowing if I was calling from the big city or across the street - that was her price. I would love to think that I could go into the local city dealer and say, look, either match her price or I walk, and he would realize that he can either agree and make ALL the profit, albeit reduced from what he was expecting, or say no, and get only a portion of the rural dealer's even smaller profit. I guarantee you he is not going to sell me this tub for 12K, when he already gave me a smoking deal of 17K. Why? I think it boils down to one word: greed.

Who knows, perhaps this inconceivable arrangement is something that is in place as part of their contract with D1?? That being the case, the local dealer might have no choice but to provide warranty support?

Anyway...it appears cynicism and criticism abound in this industry and obviously on these forums as well, and Dr. Spa, I am not some ignorant wide eyed first-time buyer. I have done, and am doing, a significant amount of research into this purchase, which was why I posted this, to get feedback from other knowledgeable people in the business. While I do appreciate your feedback and recognize your experience, I am not so naive as to take the comments of a complete stranger, someone whom I have never dealt with, as gospel, and run out and plunk down XX dollars without doing my homework. I will admit I am not an industry expert, but this will be my 3rd tub, so do I have some past experience to draw from.

I fully appreciate that the warranty / service thing is a big issue, actually a HUGE issue. I can easily put myself in the place of the local dealer, and imagine just how receptive and responsive I would be if I were him and had a customer (me) who bought out of town, come crying to me for service. However, if the claim is true that he would be compensated by this rural dealer, I would hope that he would, even reluctantly, do his part.

I might get lucky, and get a completely problem-free product, and my warranty issues would be all be for naught. Or, I could get a complete lemon and really need the help of a dedicated dealer. I don't want to take that gamble. So if I do pursue this option, I will be sure to do as you suggested, and speak with the local dealer to verify this arrangement and how any warranty / service issues will be handled.

Like I said, this is not a petty amount....this is a several thousand dollars. Honestly, tell me you wouldn't be doing the exact same thing if it meant 5K left in your pocket?

Anyway, I do appreciate your opinion, and if I do go into this, will do such having done as much homework as I can.

Thanks again.

[reeffreak]

As a new guy around here I'm going to get on my brand new soapbox and point out that this thread summarizes exactly what's wrong with the spa industry.. We have been searching for a tub for a while... The ethics on display with our local dealers would shock you. I gave up on all of the major brands because I absolutely refuse to do a deal while holding my nose. The banter on this board about one dealer refusing to support product purchased at another dealer is pitiful. I can't think of ANY other major durable good / appliance (cars, household items, etc.) that has the after sales issues of Authorized Dealer A refusing to service a product that Authorized Dealer B sold. The pricing games, trashing the competition, bait and switch, etc. are worse than any "used car" dealer that I've ever seen. The only time I ever got close was having a motorcycle serviced at a dealer I didn't buy from. They stonewalled, one phone call to the mfg, followed by a mfg threat to yank that dealer's franchise, and the problem was solved. Red carpet after that....

This needs to be fixed at the manufacturer level- realistic retail pricing needs to be established, minimum advertised price rules need to be in place for products, and dealers should have to commit to a code of conduct regarding sales practices and after-sale support as a condition of becoming an authorized reseller. The number of threads on this board about customers complaining about service, gut checking price, and venting about every kind of imaginable turn-off in the sales and support process should be a huge wake up call for a lot of folks to look in the mirror.

Dealers / manufacturers, listen up. Your customers suffer by dragging them through all this. It protects your dealer network, but it trashes your CUSTOMER network. This is not how you build goodwill. I've bought a lot of big stuff and small stuff, and I can honestly say I've never seen anything like what seems to be going on in showrooms all across the country! Now I'm not saying every dealer is bad (and good ones please don't assume so). But there are enough out there that give this whole industry a black eye. From a typical customer's perspective, you're all in this together...

Wannago, good luck on your quest. I ended up buying a blem from a local mfg (a brand that this forum would slam BTW- but there was zero bull in this deal). Had I not had that option, it would have been Costco or simply done without.

[Wannago]

^ Amen brother!

[Jake the dog man]

A much wiser person then I once stated “If you run across a deal too good to believe, it usually is”. Almost 30 years in business has has shown that to be true. There are no such city vs country business arrangements here in the states (other then overhead), but plenty of flash-in-the-pan dealers who might use that line to sell a tub.

Beware.

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

As a new guy around here I'm going to get on my brand new soapbox and point out that this thread summarizes exactly what's wrong with the spa industry.. We have been searching for a tub for a while... The ethics on display with our local dealers would shock you. I gave up on all of the major brands because I absolutely refuse to do a deal while holding my nose. The banter on this board about one dealer refusing to support product purchased at another dealer is pitiful. I can't think of ANY other major durable good / appliance (cars, household items, etc.) that has the after sales issues of Authorized Dealer A refusing to service a product that Authorized Dealer B sold. The pricing games, trashing the competition, bait and switch, etc. are worse than any "used car" dealer that I've ever seen. The only time I ever got close was having a motorcycle serviced at a dealer I didn't buy from. They stonewalled, one phone call to the mfg, followed by a mfg threat to yank that dealer's franchise, and the problem was solved. Red carpet after that....

This needs to be fixed at the manufacturer level- realistic retail pricing needs to be established, minimum advertised price rules need to be in place for products, and dealers should have to commit to a code of conduct regarding sales practices and after-sale support as a condition of becoming an authorized reseller. The number of threads on this board about customers complaining about service, gut checking price, and venting about every kind of imaginable turn-off in the sales and support process should be a huge wake up call for a lot of folks to look in the mirror.

Dealers / manufacturers, listen up. Your customers suffer by dragging them through all this. It protects your dealer network, but it trashes your CUSTOMER network. This is not how you build goodwill. I've bought a lot of big stuff and small stuff, and I can honestly say I've never seen anything like what seems to be going on in showrooms all across the country! Now I'm not saying every dealer is bad (and good ones please don't assume so). But there are enough out there that give this whole industry a black eye. From a typical customer's perspective, you're all in this together...

Wannago, good luck on your quest. I ended up buying a blem from a local mfg (a brand that this forum would slam BTW- but there was zero bull in this deal). Had I not had that option, it would have been Costco or simply done without.

Quite a long rant and I'm still not sure what your message or point is. Sounds like you are desribing 5% of the dealers that are out there and certainly not the majority. Maybe you had a bad experience.

Realistic pricing is established on all of the major manufacturers. Pretty easy to find by calling a few stores, visiting some websites, talking to local friends who have bought tubs...asking on message boards such as this...etc...

If a dealer seems way out of line or you are not comfortable with them then just move on to another one...

The only subject matter of your post that is actually addressable would be about dealer B servicing a tub that was sold by dealer A. If the tub is under warranty, dealer B would break even or lose money by doing the repair on the tub sold by dealer A so why would they do it? How's that call going to go..."oh, you bought the tub from a store that's 60 miles away an you live 5 minutes up the road from me and you want me to fix it? Oh yeah, I'll be right over to fix that right up for you free of charge!!!

Maybe you're a better person than me because I'm not doing that.

If the tub is out of warranty then yes, it would be silly for a dealer not to service a tub bought somewhere else but within their "area".

[reeffreak]

Dan I don't expect most of the folks on this forum to get the point of my rant- that's the whole problem. It's pure customer perception, you can write it off as a rant, or if you're a dealer / mfg, you can see it as a call to action. I can tell you with confidence that I'm not alone. It's not my experience with 5% of the dealers around here, nor is it 5% of the threads on this forum.

But since you asked about the solution to the Dealer A / B problem, the answer is for the spa mfg's to change the equation so that the $$ derived from support and warranty do not need to be subsidized by the sale of a spa. That could mean lower margins on the product and higher margins on the warranty service. This isn't that complicated stuff. And if you really want to get controversial (at least around this forum), explore whether the territory concept really works. What's wrong with competition? What would keep my D1 dealer any more honest than competing with another D1 dealer? That's a win for everybody. D1 gets exposure. Customers get choice. The only losers are those dealers who don't make the cut.

Most businesses spend 90% of their marketing/R&D resources studying why customers buy their product. The most successful businesses spend 90% studying why people DON'T buy their product. My rant was candid, brutally honest feedback that would fall in the latter column. Maybe it's something that can be used, maybe it's time for you to ignore me. It's simply a view of a customer looking in and nothing more.

[Wannago]

Dan,

With all due respect, I disagree with your comments. Obviously I have the consumer mindset, and you must have a dealer mindset, because I knew exactly where reeffreak is coming from.

Firstly, everything I have seen in my current spa search supports reeffreak's comments. Where I live, the majority of dealers are akin to the stereotypical used car salesman, although I have to admit that I have encountered a couple that aren't. Just my luck, but those dealer's tubs did not strike my fancy. Reefreak's description applying to only 5% of the dealers?...no way....perhaps the other way around, maybe 5% of the dealers I've dealt with really care about their customers and offer a fair and reasonable price. They all go through their sales pitch and you know the pinch is coming...start off with a "regular" price that is 200% markup, then show them how because of a current promotion, the tub has been reduced to 150% profit, then give them a "super special" price, because the boss isn't looking, at only 125% markup...BUT...in order to save this once in a lifetime deal, you need to get a deposit down right away (we take all major credit cards...oh by the way, we also finance), otherwise the price may very well be higher the next time you come in. Sound familiar anyone? Then, service is another issue. They all promise exceptional service and follow-up, but honestly - who really knows what you're gonna get? All you can do is go with a dealer that you are comfortable with and can trust...but in this business, that just may mean you fell victim to the slickest, most polished salesman in the industry, and once the tub leaves on the truck, it is an entirely different story. These forums are full of stories like that.

"Retail pricing is established on all of the major manufacturers." Really, how so? I would love to have 2 D1 dealers, or 2 Jacuzzi dealers, etc. in my city. I think you would see a huge difference. As it is, it seems that the manufacturers only allow 1 dealership per geographical location. I understand that to a certain extent. However, doing this only supports "freestyle" pricing. I will use goalie pads as a comparison. For the longest time, you could only buy a certain brand of goalie pad at one shop here in town. Prices were, lets just say, high. Lo and behold, another shop starts carrying the same line, and all of a sudden these pads can be had for a much better price. Competition breeds quality, but if I'm the only "brand X" dealer in town, I am going to charge what I want, and if people want my specific product, they are at my mercy. Given the 5K price difference I have discovered, it sure doesn't appear as though there are any firmly established prices on hot tubs, at least not D1 tubs, but I'm sure it is the same for all makes. Heck, it appears as though I could have even paid 22K for this same tub that I can now buy for 12K, because that is the "regular" price posted on this tub at the city dealership, before the "super special" price reductions. A good example of established retail pricing is the Xbox. No matter where you buy it, the price is always basically the same. There shouldn't be a 5K price difference for 2 identical hot tubs within 2 hours of each other. No way!

"If a dealer seem way out of line, or you are uncomfortable with them then just move on." I 100% agree. I am uncomfrortable paying 17K for a tub at my city dealer, but I want a D1 product, so I am going to move on to the rural dealer and buy it for 12K. In my books that makes me a smart consumer. But...we seem to have a potential issue with warranty and service, don't we? Actually, I think it might be called "spite".

Perhaps I don't understand how warranty repairs work.

It is this layman's opinion that if I have a spa that is covered by a manufacturer's warranty, that an authorized dealership, ANY authorized dealership, should be able to perform warranty work and be compensated by the manufacturer. As such, I don't understand how or why dealer "B" would lose money performing warranty work on a tub that was sold by dealer "A". He wouldn't be fixing it for me "free of charge"...he would be fixing it "free of charge TO ME"....but he would charge the manufacturer and be paid for his services.

I assumed it was similar to warranties on cars and like reeffreak's example - motorcycles. A car/bike dealership does not lose money performing warranty work on something they didn't sell...and after all, isn't the warranty a "Dimension One" warranty, or a "Ford" warranty, or a "Harley Davidson" warranty, and not an "Honest Joe's Hot Tubs" warranty? I sincerely hope so, or my hot tub searching has come to an abrupt end.

I seem to recall on the D1 site a little video clip about their plastic spa pads. The big pitch is that once you pour cement, it is there permanently, and if you move, you can't take it with you. With the convenient D1 spa pad, when your PORTABLE spa goes with you when you move, so does the spa pad. My point is, clearly these tubs are portable appliances which you can own for many years and take with you from home to home. So, that said, riddle me this: Say I live in Toronto. I go out and pay 17K for this tub to ensure I get the best-est ever service and a warranty from an honset reputable dealer (note the sarcasm). Next year, I get relocated to Ottawa. Are you saying that for the remaining years of my warranty, I am SOL as no dealer in Ottawa is going to service me or honor my warranty, because they would be losing money? If that is the case, I would really like to hear that directly from the manufacturer's reps who frequent this forum, because I think that there are a lot of misguided consumers, like me - people like me who seem to think that you have a manufacturer's warranty that is valid, at any authorized dealer, and you have the comfort of being back by such an established, reputable manufacturer. If my understanding is correct, and "naturally if you move you can have warranty service done in your new city", then honestly, what is the difference if I happen to buy from a dealer in a different city, because I prefer to deal there, for whatever the reason (cheaper prices, terrible local dealer, my cousin owns the remote dealership, the remote dealership includes 1 year of free beer, etc. etc.). If I lived in Toronto, and wanted to buy a tub from Vancouver for any of the above reasons, would that not be my prerogative? Clearly I would have to deal with the logistics/expense of making arrangements to have that tub shipped from Vancouver to Toronto. However, once I had it set up, I should still have the manufacturers warranty, should I not?

Perhaps I have this all wrong, and if so, please clarify and help me understand. For me, a relocation to another city is very real possibility. Depending on what my research returns, I seriously may have to reconsider my purchase, as I sure don't want to be without warranty on a 17K (12K) product if I am forced to move to another city. What you have said, indicates that would be the case. By the way, could you please identify which brands you carry / represent. Thanks.

Jake,

I hear what your saying, and I intend to explore further this claim of sharing the profits with the city dealership. At the same time, and regardless of whether this rural dealer compensates the poor big city dealer who got screwed out of his huge profit, it all boils down to this: a brand new tub for 17K vs a brand new tub for 12K - exact same make, model, manufacturer, from an authorized dealer 2 hours away, both coming with the same MANUFACTURERS warranty. It just doesn't make sense to pay 5K more. Why do I get the impression that only the dealers in here seem to think it makes sense to pay 17K? Honestly, I just don't get it! People I know buy cars from dealers all across the country - cars that they could have bought here, but got a better price elsewhere. Why should a hot tub be any different?

Again, this rural dealer is not a flash in the pan and has been is business for a long time. Obviously I will check them out further, probably more so than I would my local dealer.

I fully appreciate the need to be cautiously optimistic, and thoroughly check each and every detail (which I intend to), but all things aside, the price difference is evident. Assuming a factory warranty can be claimed at ANY authorized dealer, regardless of place of purchase, this is a no-brainer.

Isn't it?

[Markee]

Wannago:

Your local dealer is not obligated to service your spa. In fact, if I was a local dealer and I knew you bought a spa from a dealer that was 2 hours away, I would tell you to get lost and have them service it. The truth is, there is no money to be made in warranty repairs. If a dealer has to work on your spa under warranty, chances are they are losing money. They can justify this loss of income by the profit they made upfront on the sale. Maybe you have a rogue D1 dealer that tries to get ridiculous prices on spas, but the average spa dealer operates on MUCH lower mark up than the figures you are pulling out of your hat. After all of the bills are paid, most spa dealers are lucky to make a 5-10% profit on the sales that they make.

Although it is a manufacturers warranty, it is doubtful that your local dealer would come out to service your spa. Like many spa companies, D1 is starving for dealers. They aren't going to cancel a dealer's contract if they refuse to perform service on your spa.t

The best thing to do would be to call the local D1 dealer and ask them why they are charging so much more than the dealer that is 2 hours away. If they don't have a reason for charging more, or are reluctant to lower the price, I would then ask them if they would service a D1 that was bought from somewhere else ? The likely answer is "nope".

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

I'm getting a headache from reading all of the long posts about salesmanship.

To be honest, although I do some sales, I much prefer the repair end of the business. Maybe I'm a little jaded because my store has been around a long time and we have never been a high pressure sales business. There is also not a lot of competitors in my area compared to other locations. I was out on Long Island recently and there were about 10 pool/spa stores within a few miles. I can see that turning into a "car salesman" type atmosphere.

As far as warranty work and profit/loss, Markee pretty much summed it up in the above post.

[Peteyboy]

We also are a NO PRESSURE dealership.

If a customer buys a spa from a different dealer and wants us to service it we look at the distance from our store.

If say this spa is 60 miles from us we would be out of pocket about 1/2 what we would get from the manufacturer.

I don't know what D-1 pays for a service call.

We also look at the customer needing the repair as a potential new customer who may also shoot referrals our way.

Sales should be about more than making the sale. Too many dealerships forget this or are just ignorant of it.

We had a service rep from the manufacturer come to our store to increase our service profit and it was amazing that even this guy didn't realize the potential of sales from the service end.

Just my 2 cents.

[hottubdan]

Do you have the offer in writing?

It's pretty simple. Be transparent with the city guy. Tell him you want to buy from him, but this is your offer from country guy. Find out how he wants to address it. If it were me I would grin and bear it and take the deal and not share with country guy.

If he tells you he doesn't want to do it as you have a deposit with him, I would go back to country guy and find out if they will service spa and how much they would charge to come to city. Also how soon, given your winters. If they charge $100, it would take 50 calls to make up the difference of $5000. Not likely.

To have some difference in the price is normal, as different businesses have different models. In this case it is extreme. I think if you were able to get prices throughout Canada and US you would find country guy is way lower than anyone else.

[Wannago]

Wannago:

Your local dealer is not obligated to service your spa. In fact, if I was a local dealer and I knew you bought a spa from a dealer that was 2 hours away, I would tell you to get lost and have them service it. The truth is, there is no money to be made in warranty repairs. If a dealer has to work on your spa under warranty, chances are they are losing money. They can justify this loss of income by the profit they made upfront on the sale. Maybe you have a rogue D1 dealer that tries to get ridiculous prices on spas, but the average spa dealer operates on MUCH lower mark up than the figures you are pulling out of your hat. After all of the bills are paid, most spa dealers are lucky to make a 5-10% profit on the sales that they make.

Although it is a manufacturers warranty, it is doubtful that your local dealer would come out to service your spa. Like many spa companies, D1 is starving for dealers. They aren't going to cancel a dealer's contract if they refuse to perform service on your spa.t

The best thing to do would be to call the local D1 dealer and ask them why they are charging so much more than the dealer that is 2 hours away. If they don't have a reason for charging more, or are reluctant to lower the price, I would then ask them if they would service a D1 that was bought from somewhere else ? The likely answer is "nope".

Thanks Markee.

Assuming what you are saying is correct, then D1 is automatically out of the running for me - plain and simple. Ok...2 people have now said that if a non-dealer has to work on my spa, they lose money...can someone please explain exactly how and why? How do they actually LOSE money? Does D1 not reimburse them for any parts they have to replace? Does D1 not pay for the technician's time to perform the warranty work? This must be the case in order for them to actually LOSE money. OR...by lose money, are you saying that instead of being able to charge $200.00/hr, D1 only reimburses them at a lower rate, say $50/hr, and therefore, the dealer feels they are losing $150.00/hr to perform this "alien" service? Honestly, I am not in the retail business, and don't know how this works.

Also, if what your saying is true, then there is no obligation on behalf of even my LOCAL dealer to provide warranty coverage or service my tub, even if I DO buy from them at a ridiculous price? If they don't treat me right, from what you said, I will have no recourse. D1 is starving for dealers, so they aren't going to threaten to pull this dealership just because I am not a happy camper, are they? From seeing their prices, they are all about profit, so I would totally expect them to try to screw me on warranty too, as they would only be losing money - cutting into their profits, each and every time they had to service me.

"Loss of income"...sorry Markee, but I spit out my drink when I read that. After learning what I have learned, "loss of income" in a term that simply doesn't belong in a discussion regarding this industry. Oh they make up for it upfront on the sale alright...in spades! The figures I am quoting, by the way, are not being pulled out of my hat, but , whatever...

There is no maybe about it, our D1 dealer definitely wants ridiculous prices. With all due respect, I have to disagree that most spa dealers are lucky to make a 5%-10% margin on their tubs. If my rural dealer will sell me a tub for 12K, that I apparently AM FORCED TO PAY 17K for here in the city (IF I want a warranty), I would think they are making money on it - aren't they? Perhaps THEY are making 5-10%. Do the math, how much profit would the city dealer be getting then? I'd love to see a dealer invoice, showing exactly what the dealer paid on the spa compared to what they sell for...but that will never happen.

There just so happens to be a local dealer in town who, for years, has always parked his nice shiny new Ferrari's out front of his shop. This guy is a known crook and has been investigated for his past business practices, has been slammed by BBB complaints, etc. Somehow he just keeps on going. I have often wondered exactly how he always managed to drive such a nice new car all the time, wondering if perhaps he just came from a rich family. NOW I know....he is in the hot tub industry in a big prospering city, where for every informed and educated consumer who bypasses his shop, there are 2 others who don't know better.

This seems to apply to all the dealers in this city. We also have several dealers located in a very close proximity - you could park and walk to 5-6 different shops. Everyone seems to be in the same price range as the D1 dealer, for their top of the line tubs, however, it is clear that not all the top of the line tubs are of equal calibre. It looks like a city-wide, greed-inspired cash grabbing feeding frenzy exists, perhaps sparked by our recent very strong local economy, which, by the way, is over everyone! We are in a recession now!!! I mean, I know you are in business to make a buck, so is my Company. My Company would be out of business we tried to make even anywhere near the type of profit margin the local D1 dealer is asking (and getting - apparently). Profit is one thing...but this is ridiculous. It would appear that D1 and likely every other manufacturer support and even encourage this practice. Hey D1...let this rural dealer open a satellite store in my city...please???

I had recently been ready to purchase a Jacuzzi J-480, as the price I was given, I felt, gave me better bang for my buck than the D1. Of course, if I can buy a D1 for 5K cheaper than what I was originally being gouged for, I'd snap up the D1. Once I look into this purchase further, and if what you are saying about warranty is correct, D1 will be nothing but a distant memory of a huge 5K mistake I almost made. It appears that what reeffreak said is becoming more and more relevant with each new post.

Sad but true.

Hottubdan and Peteyboy,

Thanks as well. I expect I will do just that. Once I follow-up and confirm that what I have been offered is in fact legitimate (in writing), I will approach the local dealer and be up front with him. I know he won't match the price, simply because as I said, there is no need for him to. This is a big city and there are lots of other customers who will pay his price. And he is free to make that call, just like I am free to opt not to deal with him. I also know he will not agree to service my tub, and again, understand his position even though I completely disagree with it. Who knows, perhaps he won't match this price but may offer a much better price that appeals to me...we'll see.

I know I tend to get up on my soapbox, but I really do see the dealer's perspective, and if I was a dealer, I would see it the same way. As I previously said, if this was even a difference of 1000.00, I wouldn't even be considering it, but this is a huge difference, so I just can't seem to "suck it up" and write this other offer off.

This has really taken the excitement out of buying this new tub. If I were to buy the D1 from the local dealer, every time I hopped in it, "relaxation" would be the furthest thing from my mind - I know I would dwell on how I "could have" got it for 5K less. I think it is safe to say that D1 has lost a potential customer, as I fully expect that for me to not spend the extra 5K, I will have to rely on my rural dealer for service, and given our winters and the distance, I am not comfortable with that.

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

Sounds like you got it all figured out. My advice is simple. Open up yor own spa store, then just sit back and count your millions as it rolls in.

As far as the warranty work, yes the spa manufacturer compensates you for the part, so this is a slight loss because you have paid for the shipping to have the part in inventory.

Yes they also pay a fee close to the $50 that you suggested for the technicians time. When you factor in that the dealer needs to pay the tech for a few hours work, insurance on the vehicle, liability insurance, gas, etc. you are breaking even at the very best.

Then you factor in all of the bogus calls where the customer didn't realize that the breaker was tripped, high-limit button on the heater was tripped, the duck thermometer said the tub was 60 degrees so that's what I thought the temp was (only to find out the temp was 102), filter was dirty so it wasn't allowing the heater to come on, daughter's Barbie doll was stuck in the filter tube, power is inside the house and unaccessable to service because nobody is home, "I'm not sure anything is wrong, but I thougt it would be a good idea for you to come out and just check it out for me" (that's one of my favorites). All of these and a million more and how do you get compensted by the manufacturer when nothing was wrong with the tub? Well, you don't.

[Peteyboy]

I agree Dan. This is why I ask many questions of the customer before scheduling a service call. They may not like it much, but they are very happy when I troubleshoot them over the phone and they realize it was a simple problem.

You are right on the costs of doing service, I just always keep in mind that If we do right by someone we will get some repeat business.

[Wannago]

Thanks again, both of you. You raised some very salient points that I would never have thought of.

Let me check my lotto tickets...I'd love to open up my own hot tub mega-store and emporium, carrying all the major brands, competing directly and fiercely with the local boys.

They'd have quite the wake-up call. They'd either have to make some serious price adjustments, or they'd be quickly out of business.

I can see it all now....my mega-store and emporium attracting all the local customers who would praise me for finally bringing reality into the local hot tub scene and bringing warm soothing completely chemical free water to the masses. Bubbles for everyone!

Then, as one by one, the existing "gougers" closed their doors, either unable or unwilling to compete with my unheard and industry shaking fair pricing policy, I would be counting my millions as they effortlessly rolled in.

Then, once I had complete control, and once no one else in the city was selling what I was selling, I could up the prices, as I would have a complete monopoly. 100% - 200% - 300% markup!! Muhahahah, the city would be my oyster.

Wait a minute....I've already become a dealer...one of "them"!

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[hottubdan]

:lol:

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I'd love to open up my own hot tub mega-store and emporium, carrying all the major brands, competing directly and fiercely with the local boys.

I really think you should consider calling a spa manufacturer (I'd say Master would be the right fit) to open up a showroom in your area so you can impliment your vision.

[Dr. Spa]

Yes they also pay a fee close to the $50 that you suggested for the technicians time. When you factor in that the dealer needs to pay the tech for a few hours work, insurance on the vehicle, liability insurance, gas, etc. you are breaking even at the very best.

A lot of manufacturers only pay a FLAT FEE per service call, regardless of the problem, INCLUDING travel time. $50 is not even break even. Dan, you forgot a bit :-) employee taxes, vacation and sick pay, rent on the space for the service department, utilities for that space, cost of the vehicle, maintenance of the vehicle, tires, oil, tune ups, someone had to call the place for service? There's phone costs. What about the person answering the phone? Someone has to do the billing and bookkeeping on the call (more wages, taxes, rent for their desk space), probably on a computer. It goes on and on and on.

A few years ago a friend of mine sold her spa store. She was doing about 3.5 million dollars of business a year (retail sales out of 2 stores and 3 service people). She got a decent price. She said she figured after pay off all her accumulate debt, she'd have to get a job in about 6 months.

Unless someone has actually owned and run a business, they have little idea, the overall operational costs. We can continue to try and convince them we're all not members of the Lear Jet Club of America, but it's pointless

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

Yes they also pay a fee close to the $50 that you suggested for the technicians time. When you factor in that the dealer needs to pay the tech for a few hours work, insurance on the vehicle, liability insurance, gas, etc. you are breaking even at the very best.

A lot of manufacturers only pay a FLAT FEE per service call, regardless of the problem, INCLUDING travel time. $50 is not even break even. Dan, you forgot a bit :-) employee taxes, vacation and sick pay, rent on the space for the service department, utilities for that space, cost of the vehicle, maintenance of the vehicle, tires, oil, tune ups, someone had to call the place for service? There's phone costs. What about the person answering the phone? Someone has to do the billing and bookkeeping on the call (more wages, taxes, rent for their desk space), probably on a computer. It goes on and on and on.

A few years ago a friend of mine sold her spa store. She was doing about 3.5 million dollars of business a year (retail sales out of 2 stores and 3 service people). She got a decent price. She said she figured after pay off all her accumulate debt, she'd have to get a job in about 6 months.

Unless someone has actually owned and run a business, they have little idea, the overall operational costs. We can continue to try and convince them we're all not members of the Lear Jet Club of America, but it's pointless

I was keeping all those things in the bank for a future post! And you're right, there is probably a lot more.

[Jake the dog man]

While not hot tubs, I have been in another luxury business, Antiques, for almost 30 years. Similarly people feel we just buy everything cheap at neighborhood garage/yard sales and sit back and rake in the money.

In between everyone’s stories of how their “Grandmother/Uncle Rupert had/has one just like that” and expected free appraisals, I need to turn a small profit. Should I be expected to repair, at no cost, a table that was broken while being delivered from another dealer? I may decide to do so, but the expectation is ludicrous to say the least. Not to mention it is much harder to bill Thomas Chippendale for warranty work! LOL!

I wish some of the young blood could come in and show why we shouldn’t have been in business as long as we have been. I love business schools!

[goofysteves]

First off, I want to call out my dealer. I started down the same path of "your markup is how much!!" and proceeded to try to squeeze the price down as much as I could. And I think I did pretty good. But along the way, she decided to just lay it all out for me. She explained what a few dealers on this thread have stated about her reimbursement for any warranty work and why the profit is front-loaded. And while some other dealers charge a gas fee to do warranty work, she won't do that to her customers. She performs free water tests, so long as you bring in the water. I already had a lot of respect for her (which is why I chose to buy from her) but the openness made me feel alot better about the 'deal' I was getting. There is Coast spa dealer (I bought Hot Springs) just down the street from me that sells the exact same chemicals for the exact same price as she does, but I willingly drive 30 minutes to get my chemicals from her because of how she treats her customers (and I'm sure she still gets some profits from chem sales).

Second, an unanswered question from the above dealer comments. What happens if I do move out of state? Would the closest HS dealer not do my warranty work? It is not my fault I didn't buy from them - I didn't live anywhere near them at the time of purchase. I know what my dealer's response would be but maybe she is unique in the industry.