Seeking A First Hot Tub!

[Seeker]

Hello all

My wife would really like to get a hot tub and I've been volunteered to do the research. Hopefully I can get some guidance from the board as I am clueless. We have very limited space so I have narrowed our choices down to the Hot Springs Jetsetter, Caldera Kauia and the Marquis Spirit. The only one we've been able to wet test is the jetsetter and my wife hasn't seen the Caldera yet. I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts or recomendations on these. All the prices are within $500 of each other the Caldera being the cheapest at $5900 and the Hot Springs being the most expensive at $6400 All including steps, cover lifter and ozone. I've heard that Marquis is having money problems, I don't know if that's a rumour spawned by the other dealers or them just trying to reduce the competition. Should I be worried about buying a Marquis? Thanks in advance, Ron

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Hello all

My wife would really like to get a hot tub and I've been volunteered to do the research. Hopefully I can get some guidance from the board as I am clueless. We have very limited space so I have narrowed our choices down to the Hot Springs Jetsetter, Caldera Kauia and the Marquis Spirit. The only one we've been able to wet test is the jetsetter and my wife hasn't seen the Caldera yet. I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts or recomendations on these. All the prices are within $500 of each other the Caldera being the cheapest at $5900 and the Hot Springs being the most expensive at $6400 All including steps, cover lifter and ozone. I've heard that Marquis is having money problems, I don't know if that's a rumour spawned by the other dealers or them just trying to reduce the competition. Should I be worried about buying a Marquis? Thanks in advance, Ron

These are 3 of the better spas out there so you really can't go wrong with any of them. I haven't heard specifically about Marquis having $ problems and if they were they certainly wouldn't say anything but its probably just rumor. Or the other way to put it is that all the manufacturers are hurting so I'd concentrate more on the tubs and the dealers.

[rckymtntim]

Hi,

I purchased a Marquis Spirit and it was installed in Feb. of this year. I tested the Hot Spring Jetsetter and and the Spirit. My wife and I both liked the feel of the Spirit better. We did have 2 minor problems. When we first got the spa it had a small leak. The dealer immediately came and fixed it. The second was with the high heat error message (we have had some very warm weather and the spa is in full direct sun all day). After getting advice on this problem here on this board I was able to take care of it by changing the time of the filtering cycles. I do highly recommend this spa.

Tim

[Seeker]

I was at the Hot Spings dealer again today because they were having a "special" pre-county fair "one day" sale. They where pushing an older but new Phase I Jetsetter for $600 less than a Phase II. Is it worth it to get the Phase I? It's also not the color we would get if we ordered one. They where a bit high pressure which I didn't appreciate. They wanted a deposit to hold the price and this is the dealer that suggested that Marquis was having $ problems. It felt like I was buying a used car, and I know I used to sell them in a different life. Unfortunately I think this is the only HS dealer in the area.

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Ron

[JerimiahR]

You'll usually only have one Hot Spring dealer that services your area. Just as you'll normally only have one Marquis dealer, etc. Otherwise, you're competing against your own brand, which is counter productive.

Anyhow, the Hot Spring Jetsetter is actually my personal favorite. Not that that fact means anything though! As far as putting a deposit on the spa, that's pretty normal from my experience.

With regard to the Phase 1 or Phase 2 goes. You'll be super happy with either one of them to be very honest. The Phase 2 (2009 models with top side controls) have a new control panel, some extra lighting around the "bar top", and some updated molding/detailing around the jets. It will also interface with the latest and greatest (and future) stereo systems and wireless TV if you even care about those things.

That's what you'd get for the $600 difference they quoted you. The Phase 1 Jetsetter probably has the easiest controls though. So if pure simplicity is important, the Phase 1 Jetsetter has an edge. The newer top side controls a bit more sophisticated, but it only takes a couple minutes of playing with it to get the hang of what's going on. Also, the newer controls will not only let you set your temperature, but will display the ACTUAL temperature of the spa. The older controls will show you what temp you set, and indicate that it's at that temperature by lighting up a Green "Ready" light. And if you happen to be multilingual, the new controls can change language.

For what it's worth, the Jetsetter was our #2 selling model for 2008 in my local market. Fantastic hot tub if you only need a 2 to 3 person spa. Great, great couples spa. Personally I'd pay more for a Hot Spring simply because it's Hot Spring. Overall, you'll have a more reliable, and much more efficient hot tub. Over the years you'll have it, it'll actually cost you quite a bit less money than anything else from my experience.

EDIT: By the way, I thought I'd throw this out there. Although I don't know anything about Marquis Spas and whether they're having specific financial issues (all the manufacturers are down due to the economy of course), I can say this. There's a really huge reason my dealer has stuck with the Hot Spring brand since about 1982 (we started in 1979). Frankly, they've been the best spas we've ever sold, but it all comes down to the company behind them. If you don't know much about Hot Spring, you might also look into Masco Coproration & Watkins Manufacturing. Watkins are the makers of Hot Spring Spas, and they are owned by Masco Corporation (who also makes Behr Paints, Delta Faucets, Craftmaid Cabinets, etc). Although we've all seen some economic decline, I can tell you as a Hot Spring dealer, the Masco backing behind Hot Spring is a very big deal. We're talking a major fortune 500 company that supports these hot tubs. Not to mention, a successful company (Behr Paints for instance continually get best ratings from Consumer Reports, which is why I use Behr myself)

I can't speak to whether competitive brands will go out of business or not. But I can say that Hot Spring is in a very strong position, and I can't imagine them going anywhere anytime soon.

[Peteyboy]

Sorry to jump in. Hey Jeremiah -just a note to let you know you can have the phase 1 display the actual temp. Put a jumper on #10 and it should do it.

[JerimiahR]

Sorry to jump in. Hey Jeremiah -just a note to let you know you can have the phase 1 display the actual temp. Put a jumper on #10 and it should do it.

Thanks Pete. I do know about that trick. But we generally don't do it. Never really had an issue with the older controls not giving "actual temp". Considering the "ready" light only comes on within 2 degrees of the actual temp anyhow. Most folks never seem to mind.

[Markee]

Being one of the employer owners of Marquis Corporation, I can assure you that Marquis is much more financially sound than most companies in the industry. In fact, business has been so steady lately that lead times have doubled due to the amount of orders that have been placed with the factory. You might ask the HotSpring dealer to back up his claims?

If you wet-test the Spirit, keep in mind there is an upgraded pump available if you plan on running the spa on 220v power.

[Seeker]

Thanks Markee

That's what I was thinking. He also said that the ozone system on the Marquis was a less efficient bulb system that was added just to compete and would be very expensive to maintain. Is that True? (Wink) Any other info on the Spirt would be greatly appreciated.

Ron

[Dnepr Dave]

We have had a Caldera Kauai for a year now and we really like it.

Dave

[Markee]

Marquis uses a solid-state plasma cell ozone system that requires zero maintenance. It is made by Balboa electronics, which is considered to be one of the premier equipment manufacturers in the industry. The Marquis water management system is very sophisticated, and works extremely well. Here is a diagram that makes it easier to understand:

http://www.marquisspas.com/difference_clean.asp

In my opinion, there are much more important things to consider about a spa than the type of ozonator is uses. Here are some things that I would be looking for:

-Filtration system (how many gallons a day does the spa filter, and how does it filter?)

-Fit and finish (open up the equipment compartment and take a look at the spa internals)

-Energy efficiency (insulation type and cover thickness)

-Therapy system

-Spa base (does it have a sealed plastic bottom?)

-Warranty

-Local dealer

[JerimiahR]

That's a pretty snazzy looking diagram I have to admit. However, it's really the same filtration system everyone uses (except Hot Spring). Some of the water gets pulled through filters, and some of it is pulled right into the pump without being filtered. It works fine, but isn't the best. I sell spas that filter just like that.

Frankly though, if filtration was a key issue to someone, the No-Bypass system Hot Spring uses is going to be the better choice. Simply put, none of the water goes through your pumps, heater, or jets, until it's passed through the filters first. Period. There are no "safety suction fitting" in the bottom of the spa. All the water is pulled through your filter compartment, and not from anywhere else.

As for Markee's list of items to look for:

Filtration: This is important. You determine what makes sense to you.

Fit & Finish: Not everything that looks nice is. But looking good is important.

Energy Efficiency: For most people, I think this is a pretty big deal these days.

Therapy System: Sit in it. See if you like the jets. Forget about snazzy marketing lingo. How does it feel?

Spa Base: Plastic Bottom? That's all about opinion. I sell spas with plastic bottoms, and without. Honestly, I prefer my Hot Spring line (which has no plastic bottom) over my plastic bottom models. They're simply much more versatile, can be placed on more/different foundations, and are generally much better insulated. I honestly like the base on the Hot Spring a lot better. If you want reasons why, send me a message and I'd be happy to provide for details. Otherwise, I'd rather not create a bickering match on the forums.

Warranty: I think the company behind the warranty has more to do with the warranty itself. Many of them are pretty similar. Though I'd suggest the Hot Spring warranty is the easiest to deal with and understand. Very little 'fine print'.

Local Dealer: Dealer is a big issue. Make sure they're knowledgeable. They need to know their own product well, and be able to answer your questions. These are the guys you'll rely on for technical support throughout the following years. Hopefully they've been in business for a number of years, and have a good reputation locally.

[Water Boy]

[JerimiahR]

Water Boy: You realize this is a forum where folks come to ask serious questions, about purchases they intend to make with large sums of money, yes? I'll bet you these folks expect a small amount of maturity from those of us who give them input.

Rather than try to blast one another, let's simply stick to giving them honest answers and let them decide what makes sense to them.

[Water Boy]

That's a pretty snazzy looking diagram I have to admit. However, it's really the same filtration system everyone uses (except Hot Spring). Some of the water gets pulled through filters, and some of it is pulled right into the pump without being filtered. It works fine, but isn't the best. I sell spas that filter just like that.

Frankly though, if filtration was a key issue to someone, the No-Bypass system Hot Spring uses is going to be the better choice. Simply put, none of the water goes through your pumps, heater, or jets, until it's passed through the filters first. Period. There are no "safety suction fitting" in the bottom of the spa. All the water is pulled through your filter compartment, and not from anywhere else.

As for Markee's list of items to look for:

Filtration: This is important. You determine what makes sense to you.

Fit & Finish: Not everything that looks nice is. But looking good is important.

Energy Efficiency: For most people, I think this is a pretty big deal these days.

Therapy System: Sit in it. See if you like the jets. Forget about snazzy marketing lingo. How does it feel?

Spa Base: Plastic Bottom? That's all about opinion. I sell spas with plastic bottoms, and without. Honestly, I prefer my Hot Spring line (which has no plastic bottom) over my plastic bottom models. They're simply much more versatile, can be placed on more/different foundations, and are generally much better insulated. I honestly like the base on the Hot Spring a lot better. If you want reasons why, send me a message and I'd be happy to provide for details. Otherwise, I'd rather not create a bickering match on the forums.

Warranty: I think the company behind the warranty has more to do with the warranty itself. Many of them are pretty similar. Though I'd suggest the Hot Spring warranty is the easiest to deal with and understand. Very little 'fine print'.

Local Dealer: Dealer is a big issue. Make sure they're knowledgeable. They need to know their own product well, and be able to answer your questions. These are the guys you'll rely on for technical support throughout the following years. Hopefully they've been in business for a number of years, and have a good reputation locally.

The HS does have fine print, it's just located in the owners manual, and not the warranty. Go check, its all in there. Why isn’t it listed in the warranty? Are they trying to hide it?

Also, lets hear the reason to go with a foam base over a plastic or fiberglass base. Its not bickering, but rather backing claims with reasons. Most, if not all who had the choice would prefer a solid base over a foam base. If all else were equal, and it came down to a foam base or a plastic or fiberglass base, well that’s just a no brainer, imo.

[Water Boy]

Well a little bit of your HS kool aid, which is what it always is when you reply, goes a long ways. You are right, people do come here for serious advice, but not HS infomercials. That’s fine that you are biased, as you should be. But you come on here preaching the HS gospel and making claims that just really aren’t true, and people should know that as well. HS is a fine spa, but they aren’t the best at everything as you claim. Might come off as harsh, but that is the truth. I guess I just learned my humor from your big brother Term. You might know him. He might be able to teach you a thing or two about HS!

[iflych52]

Hold it everyone, I have to run and get my popcorn. This should get good. Waterboy, you must watch Bill O on Fox News. Good for you.

[Water Boy]

Hold it everyone, I have to run and get my popcorn. This should get good. Waterboy, you must watch Bill O on Fox News. Good for you.

[JerimiahR]

I guess I just learned my humor from your big brother Term. You might know him. He might be able to teach you a thing or two about HS!

I'm not sure who my "big brother Term" is. Perhaps you can enlighten to as to whom my long lost sibling is.

And if you have an innate problem with the fact that I truly love the Hot Spring product, and the fact that I truly think it's a better quality product than anything else I've seen.... wait till you hear what I have to say about Jesus Christ.

Point being, if you believe in something, go for it. Because if you don't go for it completely, you're kidding yourself and everyone around you.

[shovelhd]

I love my Jacuzzi. That is all.

[Water Boy]

I guess I just learned my humor from your big brother Term. You might know him. He might be able to teach you a thing or two about HS!

I'm not sure who my "big brother Term" is. Perhaps you can enlighten to as to whom my long lost sibling is.

And if you have an innate problem with the fact that I truly love the Hot Spring product, and the fact that I truly think it's a better quality product than anything else I've seen.... wait till you hear what I have to say about Jesus Christ.

Point being, if you believe in something, go for it. Because if you don't go for it completely, you're kidding yourself and everyone around you.

Well I am guessing you are a newbie to the biz if you don’t know who Term is, which explains all of the HS kool aid you have been spewing on all of us. Fresh out of the training huh? I have no problem with your "love" for HS, and I have said that before. You should be biased. But, HS isn’t the best at everything that you have been proclaiming. There are lots of other quality spas that have quality filtration, insulation, cabinets, and I don’t think you should be proclaiming that HS is the best at those. That’s all. Nothing less, nothing more.

[r5ran]

Sorry to jump in. Hey Jeremiah -just a note to let you know you can have the phase 1 display the actual temp. Put a jumper on #10 and it should do it.

Aha! I was told there was a way to have the temp show on the display via jumpers, but could never find out what jumper. Now, the question is, how can I tell if I have a Phase 1 display or not? My tub is an 08 Vanguard....somehow I got that feeling it's not a phase 1.

Thanks, Ran

[iflych52]

Waterboy, I almost fell of my chair laughing about the little video and after my day today I really needed it. If you want to know something funny, I am going to call my local HS dealer and see if they are ready to come down on a 09 vanguard. I need to see if they can compete with out of town dealer or I might buy a BF 462.

[JerimiahR]

Sorry to jump in. Hey Jeremiah -just a note to let you know you can have the phase 1 display the actual temp. Put a jumper on #10 and it should do it.

Aha! I was told there was a way to have the temp show on the display via jumpers, but could never find out what jumper. Now, the question is, how can I tell if I have a Phase 1 display or not? My tub is an 08 Vanguard....somehow I got that feeling it's not a phase 1.

Thanks, Ran

Ran,

The 2008 Vanguard would be equivalent to the Phase 1 we're talking about. Phase 1 and Phase 2 are specific to the 2009 Hot Spring models, and some mid year changes that took place.

[JerimiahR]

Well I am guessing you are a newbie to the biz if you don’t know who Term is, which explains all of the HS kool aid you have been spewing on all of us. Fresh out of the training huh? I have no problem with your "love" for HS, and I have said that before. You should be biased. But, HS isn’t the best at everything that you have been proclaiming. There are lots of other quality spas that have quality filtration, insulation, cabinets, and I don’t think you should be proclaiming that HS is the best at those. That’s all. Nothing less, nothing more.

Check your inbox. I sent you a private message. This forum thread is not the place for this.